David Luiz

Sarni

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It's a funny case with him because he used to be very overrated at the beginning of his Chelsea career because he was scoring goals (which is not important for a defender) but then all of a sudden became very underrated. He's a decent defender, nothing special but will be good for Chelsea.
 

RooneyLegend

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If he fails to impress under a manager like Conte then i'd be surprised. He'll knock him straight into line.
 

Jaybomb

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If you want to play that game West Brom turned down a major bid from Arsenal and has three PL titles. Plus Luiz is pretty rash himself another weakness of his.
Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"

The number of defensive mistakes and the number of times you win the ball means eff all? Seriously? Luiz season on season has had far too many defensive mistakes, which resulted in his team conceding. How about the fact he was the heart of Brazil's defense for their 7-1 thrashing? The reason Luiz is highly rated is more due to his physical presence and him been a great ball playing defender than his defending ability.

As for Evans, how about Fergie's opinion that he was the future of United's defense? I suggest looking at West Brom's forum, they consider him their best ever defender. That isn't stats, that's opinions of 1 of the best managers and fans who watch a player weekly.

Every team uses stats btw because they mean very much and not 'feck all'.
Ferguson has said a lot of crazy shit out over the years. You only have to look at "Phil Duncan Edwards Jones".

I'm gonna take a stab at it and say that you also rate him over Luiz too?
 

MounchesterUtd

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Bonucci (the closest player there is to our Rio)
Maybe now, but pre-Conte he really wasn't all that. People even thought he'd get benched with Barzagli and Chiellini in the same team.

While Luiz might not be a 'Conte player', I I won't write him off yet. Conte knows how to get the most out of his players.
 

3KDré

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He is OK but I feel Bailly will prove to be better. I really am surprised none of the other top clubs were in for him.
 

Orc

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I think it's strange that a CB like Ramos who can look utterly dreadful defensively when Real Madrid face top opposition, accumulates yellow cards like no ones business, red cards frequently, and has howlers as well is unanimously considered world class and one of the 2-3 best CB's in the world, yet David Luiz is a pretty damn similar player and is called shit by almost all English football fans.
 

NotworkSte

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I think it's strange that a CB like Ramos who can look utterly dreadful defensively when Real Madrid face top opposition, accumulates yellow cards like no ones business, red cards frequently, and has howlers as well is unanimously considered world class and one of the 2-3 best CB's in the world, yet David Luiz is a pretty damn similar player and is called shit by almost all English football fans.
As much as I detest Ramos, he is a big game player.
 

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It's a funny case with him because he used to be very overrated at the beginning of his Chelsea career because he was scoring goals (which is not important for a defender) but then all of a sudden became very underrated. He's a decent defender, nothing special but will be good for Chelsea.
Absolutely
 

roonster09

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I think it's strange that a CB like Ramos who can look utterly dreadful defensively when Real Madrid face top opposition, accumulates yellow cards like no ones business, red cards frequently, and has howlers as well is unanimously considered world class and one of the 2-3 best CB's in the world, yet David Luiz is a pretty damn similar player and is called shit by almost all English football fans.
Ramos is not dreadful, he is one of the best example of big game player. Sure he loses it sometimes and gets sill booking but he is excellent defender.
 

Sarni

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Also, whenever any defender is good offensively (like Ramos and Luiz are at CB and multiple full backs are - Alves prime example), it makes people think they're abysmal defensively because nobody can comprehend that they can do both. It happens literally every single time. On the other hand, when the defender is completely inept offensively (like Darmian) it creates this strange illusion of them being good defensively. It's a phenomenon I've observed for a while with defenders.
 

devilish

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Maybe now, but pre-Conte he really wasn't all that. People even thought he'd get benched with Barzagli and Chiellini in the same team.

While Luiz might not be a 'Conte player', I I won't write him off yet. Conte knows how to get the most out of his players.
Bonucci joined Juventus at age 23. Conte reverted his system from his usual 4-4-2 system to a 3-5-2 system just to make sure that his defense is 100% rock solid and he kept insisting on that defence till he signed with Chelsea.

I've been following Conte since he was a player. He wasn't the most technically gifted player around but even then he was a perfectionist, who relied alot on his football brain and he was pretty tactical. He's the last of the old fashioned type of Italian managers ie he's a born disciplinarian, whose absolutely top notch in terms of tactics and whose obsessed about having everyone showing him respect. The defence is the very foundation of his success and he won't dilly dally around that.

No one can say for certain whether Luiz is Conte's signing or not. We're not in Chelsea's board so we cant be certain about anything. What I can say is Luiz is not Conte's type of signing. He expects his defenders to be able to defend. That's crucial for his system. FFS he played in an era were the defenders around him were Maldini, Cannavaro, Ferrara, Nesta, Montero, Iuliano etc. He's not used to these 'ball playing' defenders who cant defend even if their own life depended on it.

Also if Roman wants to dick around the manager and bring players he doesn't want then he chose the wrong type (and actually the worst) of manager to do so. Conte wont compromise and is quick to show the middle finger to a club if things aren't done according to his way. If he can do that with Juventus (he's their version of Gary Neville or John Terry) and Italy (the national team is taken seriously in Italy) then he will do it with anybody.
 
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Stretford End Phil

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Not greatly impressed with Luiz but building up their defensive reserves was a wise move by Chelski. The season is already panning towards being determined by the defence. The Bitters with Stones while the Scousers have shown how poor defence undermines a stronger attack.
 

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People are willing to pay money for him still? lol
 

welshwingwizard

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Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"
....
I'm gonna take a stab at it and say that you also rate him over Luiz too?
That's not true. He was key for a couple of seasons. Especially as Ferdinand and vidic were fading he became the key defender that partnered them as they rarely played together by end due to injuries.

One season especially he made a real breakthrough but injuries and sir Alex leaving had an impact on his form and confidence.

He had a shocker the season before he was sold but really glad he found form again last season. He was excellent and barely put foot wrong last season. Another season like that and he'll definitely get picked up by top team.
 

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Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"
He was part of that CB partnership that went a dozen matches without conceding in 2008-2009 and was our best CB in 12-13, so he was at least a major part of 2 EPL titles.
 

Orc

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Bonucci joined Juventus at age 23. Conte reverted his system from his usual 4-4-2 system to a 3-5-2 system just to make sure that his defense is 100% rock solid and he kept insisting on that defence till he signed with Chelsea.

I've been following Conte since he was a player. He wasn't the most technically gifted player around but even then he was a perfectionist, who relied alot on his football brain and he was pretty tactical. He's the last of the old fashioned type of Italian managers ie he's a born disciplinarian, whose absolutely top notch in terms of tactics and whose obsessed about having everyone showing him respect. The defence is the very foundation of his success and he won't dilly dally around that.

No one can say for certain whether Luiz is Conte's signing or not. We're not in Chelsea's board so we cant be certain about anything. What I can say is Luiz is not Conte's type of signing. He expects his defenders to be able to defend. That's crucial for his system. FFS he played in an era were the defenders around him were Maldini, Cannavaro, Ferrara, Nesta, Montero, Iuliano etc. He's not used to these 'ball playing' defenders who cant defend even if their own life depended on it.

Also if Roman wants to dick around the manager and bring players he doesn't want then he chose the wrong type (and actually the worst) of manager to do so. Conte wont compromise and is quick to show the middle finger to a club if things aren't done according to his way. If he can do that with Juventus (he's their version of Gary Neville or John Terry) and Italy (the national team is taken seriously in Italy) then he will do it with anybody.
I think the board realized their mistake last summer of signing players that the manager didn't want (or had never even heard of, staggeringly). They've gone and got rid of all those mistakes. Baba, Djilobodji, Pato, Falcao, Hector, Miazga.

David Luiz obviously wasn't Conte's first or even second choice but it's being widely reported that he signed off on it and gave his blessing.
 

devilish

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I think the board realized their mistake last summer of signing players that the manager didn't want (or had never even heard of, staggeringly). They've gone and got rid of all those mistakes. Baba, Djilobodji, Pato, Falcao, Hector, Miazga.

David Luiz obviously wasn't Conte's first or even second choice but it's being widely reported that he signed off on it and gave his blessing.
Chelsea seem to do the same mistake again and again. They did it with Mourinho which forced his departure from Chelsea to Inter and again last season which contributed to his sack.

Have they learnt the lesson? For their sake I hope so. Conte doesn't compromise. If they mess with him, he'll expose them, he'll bitch about it and then he will resign. He did that in the past two jobs. I cant see why he wouldn't do that with Chelsea.
 

MounchesterUtd

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Bonucci joined Juventus at age 23. Conte reverted his system from his usual 4-4-2 system to a 3-5-2 system just to make sure that his defense is 100% rock solid and he kept insisting on that defence till he signed with Chelsea.
Weird claim to make. Chiellini and Barzagli were class, maybe just a touch below WC, during that time. Juve were set on defense.

Their problems had more to do with generating chances, which is why Conte made the change to 352 so he can accommodate the skilled ball player but (at the time) average defender in Bonucci. I cannot stress enough that Conte played a big part in developing Bonucci's defensive skills, he wasn't half the defender that he is today when he first came in during Bonucci's second year.

No one can say for certain whether Luiz is Conte's signing or not. We're not in Chelsea's board so we cant be certain about anything. What I can say is Luiz is not Conte's type of signing.
Okay, which one do I believe now? :houllier::lol:

Again, all I'm saying is, yes Luiz might not be that old school Italian type defender that Conte prefers but as shown in Bonucci's case, he does allow for some exceptions from time to time as long as he sees that it addresses an important need for the team. Needless to say, Luiz will have to double his efforts on the defending side of things, but I'm sure he'll be given a chance.

I think you're confusing Conte's 'my way or the highway' mentality with tactical inflexibility. Conte won the league with Vucinic FFS.
 

devilish

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Weird claim to make. Chiellini and Barzagli were class, maybe just a touch below WC, during that time. Juve were set on defense.

Their problems had more to do with generating chances, which is why Conte made the change to 352 so he can accommodate the skilled ball player but (at the time) average defender in Bonucci. I cannot stress enough that Conte played a big part in developing Bonucci's defensive skills, he wasn't half the defender that he is today when he first came in during Bonucci's second year.



Okay, which one do I believe now? :houllier::lol:

Again, all I'm saying is, yes Luiz might not be that old school Italian type defender that Conte prefers but as shown in Bonucci's case, he does allow for some exceptions from time to time as long as he sees that it addresses an important need for the team. Needless to say, Luiz will have to double his efforts on the defending side of things, but I'm sure he'll be given a chance.

I think you're confusing Conte's 'my way or the highway' mentality with tactical inflexibility. Conte won the league with Vucinic FFS.
A- Bonucci was not an average defender at the time. He wasn't as good as he's now (he was still a young player) but he wasn't average. To sign him up Juventus had to involve itself in a very complicated deal with two others clubs and which also involved money + players (one of which was homegrown talent Criscito).

B- What I said was that while I cant be 100% certain that Luiz is not a Conte type of defender (as I am not part of Chelsea's board of director) that signing is pretty strange. As said Conte likes defenders who know how to defend.
 

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Conte knows the EPL differs from the Serie A so I expect him to adapt his coaching to the local league like Ancelotti did.

For example, you can't compare the tactical system of Milan AC under Ancelotti with that of Chelsea.

Few available top defenders play in a 3-5-2 system. Now, I'm curious to know more about the transfer rumours this summer. Bonucci? Who else?

A come-back is rarely a success.
 

Dazzmondo

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Do people think he'll replace Cahill or Terry at cb? Or do most believe he'll switch to a 3-5-2? You'd think Conte would have at least practiced the 3-5-2 formation in pre-season if he intended on using it at some stage. Also seems weird to change the system when they've actually started the season well. I don't remember anyone using a 3-5-2 successfully for a sustained period of time in the Premier League. Not convinced the system can work long term in this league.

Personally think this deal was a pretty strange one on Chelsea's end, but then they seemed to fail in their attempts to get Koulibaly and Romagnoli so I suppose he was better than nothing.
 

Dazzmondo

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Evans wasn't really a major part of those 3 PL titles wins. It's like saying "Look at all the PL medals Anderson's got!"
That's major revisionism. Evans was brilliant for at least 2 of those seasons. I remember I voted him as United's Player of the Year for one of them. Anderson certainly never produced anywhere near as consistently as Evans did for us despite also having brief runs of great form, the best of which bizarrely came when played alongside Cleverley. Evans has been fantastic since joining West Brom and I'm happy for him. Every manager makes mistakes but Ferguson was right more times than he was wrong, moreso than most other managers. The point could also be made that these players that seemed to fail like Jones for example may have actually performed better had SAF remained at the club for longer. Not all managers can get the same results from players. I think people often underestimate this. You need only consider Zlatan's relationship with Mourinho as opposed to that with Guardiola as well as his performances at Inter and Barcelona as evidence of that.
 

Jaybomb

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That's not true. He was key for a couple of seasons. Especially as Ferdinand and vidic were fading he became the key defender that partnered them as they rarely played together by end due to injuries.

One season especially he made a real breakthrough but injuries and sir Alex leaving had an impact on his form and confidence.

He had a shocker the season before he was sold but really glad he found form again last season. He was excellent and barely put foot wrong last season. Another season like that and he'll definitely get picked up by top team.
He's a "decent" PL defender for a team that finishes 8th-15th. I'd put him in the same bracket as the likes of Ashley Williams, Ryan Shawcross etc.


He was part of that CB partnership that went a dozen matches without conceding in 2008-2009 and was our best CB in 12-13, so he was at least a major part of 2 EPL titles.
A lot of that was to do with Van Der Sar. And best CB in 12/13 is highly debatable. Rio had an excellent season that year and even managed to get himself into the Team of the Season.
 

BlueCelery

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David Luiz should just play as a Defensive midfielder and everyone would accept he's World Class.
 

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The Liverpool game was odd. He played very well, individually, but their defence was a total shambles. Which seems to be a feature of his game.
Yeah I can't disagree with that, I don't think Cahills really a leader and I wouldn't want Luiz organising the defence.
 

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what a pass by him just now
He's had a few this game, I'm surprised Conte hasn't gone with a 3 (is ivanovic fit) It'd give Luiz chances to do his Bonucco-esque passing while helping with his defensive flaws
 

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Our defense has been absolute shit since 2015. We've hardly done anything to address our deficiencies.
 

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David Luiz should just play as a Defensive midfielder and everyone would accept he's World Class.
But when he was actually played there and didn't get as much time and space as he does in defence it turns out he's not particularly good at that either.
 

BlueCelery

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Happy he's back. Our build up play has improved immensely with him in the team. His passing range is out of this world. Diagonals, through balls, in between the lines. All in his locker.

He'll make mistakes but so will every other defender that's not named Maldini. Rather him in the team than Cahill.