Dayot Upamecano

Mcking

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...is our only centre half with these qualities. We need two.
I agree with you. Ability to head the ball should be a prerequisite for any CB especially at the highest level. I want two strong commanding CBs that are dominant in the air. It just gives a special aura to the team.
 

phonics_tid

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It came across as if you were trying to move Axel into the same bracket of player as Upamecano, which was the basis of my response.

Even injuries aside, I don’t think he’s shown enough to be knocking on the door of the first team. Yea, he played 25 games at Villa last season. But to what standard? He was decent, he wasn’t building the sort of reputation that Henderson has been building with his performances. He was just a Villa player, but one who happened to have a United contract. Given we don’t typically go shopping in the Championship when looking for first-team players, he’d need to have been a lot better than he was at Villa (not that he was ‘bad’ at all) to say he should come back and get in the United team. It’s as if some fans wrote the whole story out before he left to go on loan, that he will ‘go out, get experience and then come back and fight for a place’ and his performances are the last factor they considered relevant from there on. For him to go to the Championship at 20/21 years old - he’d need to have one of those ‘he looks too good for that level’ seasons to be expecting to come back into our side. That wasn’t the case.

I reckon people will struggle to list 3 actual centre half performances at pro-level that they have seen from Axel that made them think ‘this is a future United regular’, but it’s still a such a commonly held view, at 22 and a half years old. If we can get Upamecano or similar quality for £40m, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s only marginally more than we can mug a PL side for Axel, which would make it an easy trade for me. We have plenty of other academy players around to worry about losing the souls of the club or anything, we can’t start lowering the Manchester United bar for these kids.
Definitely not putting him in any bracket and I can’t put him in the bracket with Upemacano as I haven’t seen him play. I’m also not getting swept up with Tuanzebe and marking him as the second coming of Maldini but i have been impressed with what I’ve seen oh him.

I guess for me, I see it as more of a priority to get Rojo, Jones and Smalling out the door before we sign another centre half. I should also add, that I’m still a big fan of Bailly and think, on paper at least, him and Maguire would be great.
 

Rozay

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Definitely not putting him in any bracket and I can’t put him in the bracket with Upemacano as I haven’t seen him play. I’m also not getting swept up with Tuanzebe and marking him as the second coming of Maldini but i have been impressed with what I’ve seen oh him.

I guess for me, I see it as more of a priority to get Rojo, Jones and Smalling out the door before we sign another centre half. I should also add, that I’m still a big fan of Bailly and think, on paper at least, him and Maguire would be great.
Yea that’s fair. I don’t want to seem that I’m against Axel either, and of course, we have other centre halves who have already had more of a shot than him and failed. It’s more a case that I don’t have him in some sort of indispensable category like Mason Greenwood - and I think that IF we needed to raise money for a centre half, we could fetch a good few for him. Ideally, someone will come and pay us £40m for Smalling, Jones and Rojo instead, but we may be forced to make a tougher choice with Axel if nobody wants them.

I still don’t fully know what I think of Bailly, which in the whole, for his position, I think is probably a negative. And I can’t look past his lack of ability in the air. I suppose the rest of his game can be ironed out in theory, and he definitely has a lot going for him.
 

DWelbz19

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I wonder what that would mean for Alaba. Davies is now first choice LB, and his stint at CB (whilst successful thus far) is temporary - assuming Upamecano arrives and Sule gets back from injury.

His contract also expires in 2021 according to Transfermarkt...
 

sun_tzu

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I wonder what that would mean for Alaba. Davies is now first choice LB, and his stint at CB (whilst successful thus far) is temporary - assuming Upamecano arrives and Sule gets back from injury.

His contract also expires in 2021 according to Transfermarkt...
Apparently rejected a new contract at Bayern
https://www.getfootballnewsgermany.com/2020/david-alaba-rejects-bayern-munichs-first-contract-offer/
So presumably they will look to sell this summer
Depends who has the money but Real, Barca, City, PSG?
 

strongwalker

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Apparently rejected a new contract at Bayern
https://www.getfootballnewsgermany.com/2020/david-alaba-rejects-bayern-munichs-first-contract-offer/
So presumably they will look to sell this summer
Depends who has the money but Real, Barca, City, PSG?
No word about that in the usual very well-informed Munich local media, not even on Sport1's website which is quoted as the source. Latest news was from the 18th and basically said Alaba expects an improved offer from the club and the talks are on hold because Alabas agent Zahavi can not come to munich due to current travel restrictions. Rummenigge says If Alaba wants to stay they will find common grounds.

Making a headline out of nothing.... (also the most likely target club FCB/Catalunya has no money...)

Alaba can play FB, CB and DM on equally high level, and is a fan favourite. Don't think in the end he'll leave. And if he stays, he will play.
 

hasanejaz88

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I wonder what that would mean for Alaba. Davies is now first choice LB, and his stint at CB (whilst successful thus far) is temporary - assuming Upamecano arrives and Sule gets back from injury.

His contract also expires in 2021 according to Transfermarkt...
Yea. Bayern are already stacked with young talented CBs with Sule, Hernandez and Pavard.

Doesn't make sense for them to spend big on Upamecano unless

1) They aren't hopeful on Sule reaching his peak after this long injury

2) Hernandez's injury proness continues so they need another consistent option

3) They will permanently move Pavard to RB, though I don't think this will work because Pavard wasn't great this season in that position.
 

strongwalker

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Yea. Bayern are already stacked with young talented CBs with Sule, Hernandez and Pavard.

Doesn't make sense for them to spend big on Upamecano unless

1) They aren't hopeful on Sule reaching his peak after this long injury

2) Hernandez's injury proness continues so they need another consistent option

3) They will permanently move Pavard to RB, though I don't think this will work because Pavard wasn't great this season in that position.
You can't bank on Davies maintaining his current form on a constant level yet. Pavard was expected to be a backup player and ended up having the most playtime in the squad, ahead even of Kimmich, he is very much a first choice for RFB.
CL contender teams will aim at having 4 options for CB and 2 for each FB position, also Flick will want Kimmich as DM, not as RFB.
 

hasanejaz88

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You can't bank on Davies maintaining his current form on a constant level yet. Pavard was expected to be a backup player and ended up having the most playtime in the squad, ahead even of Kimmich, he is very much a first choice for RFB.
CL contender teams will aim at having 4 options for CB and 2 for each FB position, also Flick will want Kimmich as DM, not as RFB.
Davies and Alaba for LB would be a dream for any side in Europe, so I agree it would be better to have both right now rather than banking completely on a still very young Davies.

Regarding Pavard though, would you want him to be the first choice RB though? I agree that Kimmich should be played at DM since it's his best position, eventhough he's been amongst the top 3 RB's in the world consistently, but then Bayern would need to invest in a proper RB. The loan of Odriozola hasn't really worked out yet so he won't be a permanent solution.
 

Acrobat7

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Regarding Pavard though, would you want him to be the first choice RB though? I agree that Kimmich should be played at DM since it's his best position, eventhough he's been amongst the top 3 RB's in the world consistently, but then Bayern would need to invest in a proper RB. The loan of Odriozola hasn't really worked out yet so he won't be a permanent solution.
There were signs that Bayern is going after Dest from Ajax as RB.
 

izec

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If Bayern pay up, they will get him. I am sure they could potentially negotiate a bit on the price as well. As almost always, first in the line for Bundesliga talent with Dortmund as well.
 

IrishMcD

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Yea because Axel has really been pushing for a place this season. Tuanzebe’s development has been stunted by the fact he can’t get on the pitch for 3 games in a row. And I’m pretty sure he’s already older, and not as good as Upamecano too.
This, a million times this. It's not like you are bringing in someone to replace a United Academy project who is starting 20games a season. Axel has had zero impact at United because he cant stay fit. If he gets over his injury issues and reaches his potential, then fantastic. He overtakes Lindelof and battles it out with the new signing (if one is made) to become Maguires partner. Some people still think Fosu Mensah will come good.
 

RooneyLegend

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I don't think we should buy any of these very expensive defenders. Boly and Tomori would be great signings. Dayot and this guy or even koulabaly would just be reckless spending especially during the current climate.
 

SparkedIntoLife

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I don't think we should buy any of these very expensive defenders. Boly and Tomori would be great signings. Dayot and this guy or even koulabaly would just be reckless spending especially during the current climate.
Agree on Koulibaly due to his age and Napoli's propensity to charge the moon for their stars. However, I think this is well off base about Upamecano, Boly and Tomori.

Tomori is a Chelsea home grown player and not especially top drawer. You're looking at 50m for a decent PL player at best. Boly is 29 and Wolves are very rich. He'll be very costly no doubt. I think he is made to look better in Nuno Espirito Santo's 3 man backline than he actually is.

Upamecano is better than the two aforementioned players and has Koulibaly-esque potential. Importantly, he has a reasonable release clause.
 

Baneofthegame

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I don't think we should buy any of these very expensive defenders. Boly and Tomori would be great signings. Dayot and this guy or even koulabaly would just be reckless spending especially during the current climate.
Boly or Tomori aren’t going to be cheap.
 

Ish

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I don't think we should buy any of these very expensive defenders. Boly and Tomori would be great signings. Dayot and this guy or even koulabaly would just be reckless spending especially during the current climate.
Just be reading these last couple pages - sounds like Dayot has a release clause which isn’t too expensive (in today’s pre covid market terms anyway). No idea what the market will look like post.
 

RooneyLegend

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Tomori is not the one at all.
He's got huge potential. There's nothing he doesn't have.
Agree on Koulibaly due to his age and Napoli's propensity to charge the moon for their stars. However, I think this is well off base about Upamecano, Boly and Tomori.

Tomori is a Chelsea home grown player and not especially top drawer. You're looking at 50m for a decent PL player at best. Boly is 29 and Wolves are very rich. He'll be very costly no doubt. I think he is made to look better in Nuno Espirito Santo's 3 man backline than he actually is.

Upamecano is better than the two aforementioned players and has Koulibaly-esque potential. Importantly, he has a reasonable release clause.
No one is charging 50 million for a player who lacks expierence and is on the bench. Boly's contract is ending next year.
 

limerickcitykid

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Boly is 29 with one year left on his contract, he'll be going for a reasonable price. Tomori is struggling to get into the Chelsea team plus he doesn't have much fanfare atm.
He’s their second most played CB all season. How can you be struggling to get into the team and yet still be playing more than all the other CBs?

We’re not buying Fikayo and Chelsea aren’t selling. It’s an asinine suggestion. Chelsea should just sign Greenwood while we’re at it.
 

RooneyLegend

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He’s their second most played CB all season. How can you be struggling to get into the team and yet still be playing more than all the other CBs?

We’re not buying Fikayo and Chelsea aren’t selling. It’s an asinine suggestion. Chelsea should just sign Greenwood while we’re at it.
He’s their second most played CB all season. How can you be struggling to get into the team and yet still be playing more than all the other CBs?

We’re not buying Fikayo and Chelsea aren’t selling. It’s an asinine suggestion. Chelsea should just sign Greenwood while we’re at it.
He hasn't played 8 of their last 9 league games. In 4 of those he hasn't even made the match day squad. In the only match he played was substituted in the 60th minute. Clearly Lampard has made up his mind.

Greenwood is a baby, not close to being the same situation. Tomori is turning 23 this year. The young player tag is fading out quickly.
 

Adam-Utd

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He hasn't played 8 of their last 9 league games. In 4 of those he hasn't even made the match day squad. In the only match he played was substituted in the 60th minute. Clearly Lampard has made up his mind.

Greenwood is a baby, not close to being the same situation. Tomori is turning 23 this year. The young player tag is fading out quickly.
Yet you want us to sign him? :confused:
 

Ekeke

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Boly is 29 with one year left on his contract, he'll be going for a reasonable price. Tomori is struggling to get into the Chelsea team plus he doesn't have much fanfare atm.
So you think an England international at the age of 22 is going to be quite cheap?
 

Red_toad

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Upamecano is better than the two aforementioned players and has Koulibaly-esque potential. Importantly, he has a reasonable release clause.
tbh his defensive partner is better. I see Upamecano as one who could be a good defender at a top club or possibly look like a fish out of water.
Konate looks a far more polished player.
 

AKDevil

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He's got huge potential. There's nothing he doesn't have.

No one is charging 50 million for a player who lacks expierence and is on the bench. Boly's contract is ending next year.
He benefitted from Chelsea’s youth focus to get in the team but soon as others came back he was gone.
 

JJ12

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I don't think we should buy any of these very expensive defenders. Boly and Tomori would be great signings. Dayot and this guy or even koulabaly would just be reckless spending especially during the current climate.
Don't sign a potential world class player for 40m but do sign Tomori or Boly :confused:

Head scratcher.
 

Sayros

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RB Leipzig pushing to get the next French talent at CB in Kouassi, I guess it's their flavor right now, so I'm not surprised they're ready to let Upamecano next season if they succeed, but if Dayot has a good season and stays healthy 40m would be a bargain in to.....or I guess yesterday's market, who knows with this virus how valuations will pan out.
 

RooneyLegend

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He benefitted from Chelsea’s youth focus to get in the team but soon as others came back he was gone.
Exactly, which I think is an error on the part of Lampard and could help us get him for a reasonable price.
 

Adnan

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tbh his defensive partner is better. I see Upamecano as one who could be a good defender at a top club or possibly look like a fish out of water.
Konate looks a far more polished player.
Completely agree with you.

Also Konate's sheer size makes Upamecano look small in comparison and IMO a big advantage playing in England. Konate is the #4 and Upamecano is the #5 in the below pic.

 
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SAFMUTD

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Boly is 29 with one year left on his contract, he'll be going for a reasonable price. Tomori is struggling to get into the Chelsea team plus he doesn't have much fanfare atm.
If we are going to give Tomori a chance we may very well give it to Tuanzabe instead. Tomori hasnt showned anything yet to be above a player as Tuanzabe.
 

RooneyLegend

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If we are going to give Tomori a chance we may very well give it to Tuanzabe instead. Tomori hasnt showned anything yet to be above a player as Tuanzabe.
I see them as players that would be a great partnership in the future. Baily, Maguire, Boly, Tuanzebe and Tomori would be a great group of center backs to head into the future with.

As for him not showing more he's shown more ability in the air than Tuanzebe.
 

Adnan

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I see them as players that would be a great partnership in the future. Baily, Maguire, Boly, Tuanzebe and Tomori would be a great group of center backs to head into the future with.

As for him not showing more he's shown more ability in the air than Tuanzebe.
Chelsea wouldn't sell him to us. And even if they did, the price would be high for a player of his inexperience.