De Gea - Mourinho's Get-out-of-jail-free card

[Z1L3]

Honestly, I think it's the United fans on this thread who need to grow up and accept a fairly reasonable reasonable post from a rival fan. Or does Mourinho criticism only count when it's levied by a United fan?

This entire thread is anything but reasonable. As if the opening post wasn't biased and nonsensical enough, now it's being discussed at length how United are a defensive team. Can somebody explain to me how can a team that is among league leaders in all offensive statistics for the second season in a row be considered a defensive team? Can anybody who actually watched the game yesterday say that United played defensively? You can say United played poorly and was pinned back by Seville, but United attacked and held the ball whenever they could.

It is really phenomenal how a discussion can so easily be framed based on completely false premises. As long as someone comes out and says something, people just run with it without considering if it actually makes any sense.

 

[Kapardin]

To Mourinho's credit, the reliance on de Gea decreased considerably. It was so last season. It has only been a couple of weeks that our form dropped off a cliff, our CBs began making stupid mistakes and Dave had to step up again.

Yes, Dave saved our necks against Sevilla. That was an LvG-esque performance, but overall in 1.5 years, Mourinho has managed to build a solid defense and not rely entirely on Dave like LvG. I think once we get Bailly-Jones pair back, we will be a lot better.

 

[El-Manos]

I agree with your general point as in that we're not an Atletico Madrid with an iron clad defense and DDG bails us out quite a lot of times but I think you're overstating the importance of DDG. For all the praise that DDG gets, his routine saves also get highlighted a lot more than other keepers. Even against Sevilla, there was just this one save against Muriel which was very good but Muriel kinda helped it too by putting it withing De Gea's range even though he had a free header from 5 yards.

Also, we're largely irrelevant in all competitions at this stage and so are Liverpool(both of us are not winning the UCL). The only cup we've a chance of winning is the FA Cup where DDG hasn't played

Yup, love De Gea but he is ridiculously overpraised by some. He made one outstanding save last night, the remaining shots were routine saves.

 

[diplomat]

To Mourinho's credit, the reliance on de Gea decreased considerably. It was so last season. It has only been a couple of weeks that our form dropped off a cliff, our CBs began making stupid mistakes and Dave had to step up again.

Yes, Dave saved our necks against Sevilla. That was an LvG-esque performance, but overall in 1.5 years, Mourinho has managed to build a solid defense and not rely entirely on Dave like LvG. I think once we get Bailly-Jones pair back, we will be a lot better.

Last season we were much less reliant on DDG than before, that is true. This season however, he has been as good as ever in saving our asses and not only I'm fully sure of that by watching us play every single game, all the stats out there prove exactly this and De Gea has been by far the best GK in the EPL.

 

[Kapardin]

Last season we were much less reliant on DDG than before, that is true. This season however, he has been as good as ever in saving our asses and not only I'm fully sure of that by watching us play every single game, all the stats out there prove exactly this and De Gea has been by far the best GK in the EPL.

Start of the season, he wasn't called upon either. His services became important round the time Bailly got injured, Matic's form dropped a bit and we started playing Smalling regularly. Of course, he's as good as ever.

 

[diplomat]

Start of the season, he wasn't called upon either. His services became important round the time Bailly got injured, Matic's form dropped a bit and we started playing Smalling regularly. Of course, he's as good as ever.

Start of the season was more than 5 months ago.

 

[Hitchez]

We were a lot more reliant on DDG under Van Gaal. He's had a few good games of course but by large our defensive record since Jose came in is down to good defending than DDG making save after save.

Besides, it's not really a get out of jail card. It's his job to make saves. It's akin to saying Pocchhetino's get out of jail card is Kane.

 

[diplomat]

We were a lot more reliant on DDG under Van Gaal. He's had a few good games of course but by large our defensive record since Jose came in is down to good defending than DDG making save after save.

Besides, it's not really a get out of jail card. It's his job to make saves. It's akin to saying Pocchhetino's get out of jail card is Kane.

So why can't the same logic be used when DDG was saving everything during LVG, just like he is now? He was just doing his job, nothing that important. Our defending consists of playing 9 players behind the ball, of course we would be a tiny bit better than under Van Gaal because we play defensively as a style.

 

[ti vu]

I don't recall L'pool got hit as hard on with injuries on defender. You can check Hyppia appearance. He hardly miss any games raking 40+ games for 7 years straight and some of it was when he was in his 30s. He was your best CB over this period too.

Shot from opposition ain't bad thing. Porto, Inter, Chelsea so called best Mourinho teams were all faced shot and his GKs were highly rated for doing their job. It's not like DDG winning MOTM everyweek when we're winning 3-0 like that game against L'pool nowadays. It's your team GK's inept that's the problem.

 

[ti vu]

Start of the season was more than 5 months ago.

Bailly started to get sidelined was not 5 months ago

 

[Hitchez]

So why can't the same logic be used when DDG was saving everything during LVG, just like he is now? He was just doing his job, nothing that important. Our defending consists of playing 9 players behind the ball, of course we would be a tiny bit better than under Van Gaal because we play defensively as a style.

We're a LOT more attacking under Jose than LVG. I can join in with all sorts of criticism towards Jose but he's had us defending and attacking a lot better lVG ever had. Under LVG we literally did nothing on the pitch. We neither attacked well or defender well. It was a complete shit fest.

 

[Pyroblazer]

OP is spot on to be fair. We are not really defending that well. Arsenal game would be another example, people praise Jose for it but without De Gea we could have lost 3-5 so how was that a good plan when they got like 20 shots on out goal. You get away with it against Sevilla or Arsenal, but I really fear a potential QF against the likes of Bayern, PSG or Barca, especially away from home.

 

[diplomat]

We're a LOT more attacking under Jose than LVG. I can join in with all sorts of criticism towards Jose but he's had us defending and attacking a lot better lVG ever had. Under LVG we literally did nothing on the pitch. We neither attacked well or defender well. It was a complete shit fest.

We are not a lot more attacking, we are more direct in attacking but you can't be more attacking if you consistently have less of the ball. We also had worse players in attack and younger ones, who had no experience at the top level yet.

 

[ti vu]

So why can't the same logic be used when DDG was saving everything during LVG, just like he is now? He was just doing his job, nothing that important. Our defending consists of playing 9 players behind the ball, of course we would be a tiny bit better than under Van Gaal because we play defensively as a style.

LVG used possession mostly for defensive purpose to keep opposition from having it to attack it, yet we conceded plenty clear cut chances. It's not tiny bit better. DDG won MOTM in frigging 3-0 victory against L'pool at home. It's as rare as it gets and I myself failed to recall another performance from others GKs. While L'pool was the peak of this kind of performance, it's a common theme under LVG

 

[diplomat]

LVG used possession mostly for defensive purpose to keep opposition from having it to attack it, yet we conceded plenty clear cut chances. It's not tiny bit better. DDG won MOTM in frigging 3-0 victory against L'pool at home. It's as rare as it gets and I myself failed to recall another performance from others GKs. While L'pool was the peak of this kind of performance, it's a common theme under LVG

So something like our 3-1 win against Arsenal?

 

[ti vu]

We are not a lot more attacking, we are more direct in attacking but you can't be more attacking if you consistently have less of the ball. We also had worse players in attack and younger ones, who had no experience at the top level yet.

Yes. it's possible to be consistent pose lesser possession stats while being more attacking. The team toward SAF time here didn't have as much possession like LVG team, yet is more attacking.

 

[ti vu]

So something like our 3-1 win against Arsenal?

"...another performance from others GKs"

 

[Giggs86]

Agree with the OP. As a team that is allegedly defensively strong and supposed to be a "tactical unit", we are pretty shit at that.

Being good defensively is preventing opportunities from the opposing team, not letting them have a free go at our keeper.

De gea is a miracle worker.

 

[diplomat]

"...another performance from others GKs"

I'll agree to disagree, because I can debate this all day and night, still wouldn't understand your point that De Gea has been just normal this season.

My eyes and brain prove it, as I watch every game, all the possible different stats prove it, yet people say it's agenda, it's a narrative to make us look shit. Well guess what, I think we are shit at the moment so there is that.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Im all for praising DDG but the keeper is there to do that, thats his job to make saves.

In this case, DDG is the only one who does his job for us.

Manager job is to make the team combine well and play football -> our manager fail
Striker job is to score goals -> our strikers fail
Midfielder job is to pass around and take good possession or create chance -> our midfielders fail
Defender job is to defend well and cut down goalscoring chances from opponents -> our defenders fail

 

[diplomat]

In this case, DDG is the only one who does his job for us.

Manager job is to make the team combine well and play football -> our manager fail
Striker job is to score goals -> our strikers fail
Midfielder job is to pass around and take good possession or create chance -> our midfielders fail
Defender job is to defend well and cut down goalscoring chances from opponents -> our defenders fail

Exactly.

 

[Z1L3]

After reading all of this I have reconsidered my position and now I agree that Mourihno is a complete failure. The fact that Baily, Rojo, Fellaini, Herrera, and Carrick have been injured most of the season and that Pogba missed half the season with injuries and suspensions, that Ibrahimovic played 2 games, and that Sanchez has had 2 weeks to blend into the squad is completely irrelevant. Second in the league, quarterfinals of FA and likely quarterfinals of CL is all a failure because we're not playing phenomenally well every single game and De Gea occasionally has to make a save.

 

[bond19821982]

Overreaction to be honest. DDG has single handedly bailed us out during LVG era on lot many games but we are defensively much better now.

Back to game , Sevilla had one proper chance yesterday and that was not due to DDG but our defensive organization.Yes, it was a brilliant save but then thats why we are paying him 300k pw.

 

[finneh]

I think the fact that a Liverpool fan has posted this is quite fitting. It isn't just a case of De Gea being fantastic, it's a case of him being non-mortal in comparison to the goalkeepers they currently have and in truth have had for 25 years.

United fans appreciate De Gea hugely. However I see him as "just" a great individual in the team, not some impenetrable wall that bails us out. De Gea bails United out just like Salah and Coutinho before him regularly bailed Liverpool out.

The truth is the three consistent keepers ive seen for United in the last 27 years have been Schmeichel, Van Der Sar and De Gea. Therefore De Gea is somewhat par for the course as a United goalkeeper.

This mentality however infects my view (and others in my view) of other players as we feel Smalling and Jones are terrible because they aren't Ferdinand/Vidic. Likewise Matic isn't Keane and Pogba isn't a prime Paul Scholes.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

We have plenty of clean sheets with Others in Goal so its just lazy to say that somehow he. That header was right at him not as if he had to dive. His reaction was lightening.

DDG in keeper does his Job shocker.