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2020-21 Performances


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Conor

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I think jumping with your knee like that is absolute bullshit, it is essentially designed to mince anyone that comes near you. Why should keepers be allowed do it, when any other player would be penalised heavily for milling someone with their knee? Before anyone says "you can't jump with straight legs", there is a difference between your knee being up from jumping, and the UFC style flying style knee that most keepers use. It's incredibly dangerous.
 
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Zoo

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Am happy enough with him in the role he’s playing for now, I think he has done pretty well. De Gea still has the edge over him though so you’d imagine he’s going to want to go and be first choice eventually at another club.
 

Chief123

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I think jumping with your knee like that is absolute bullshit, it is essentially designed to mince anyone that comes near you. Why should keepers be allowed do it, when any other player would be penalised heavily for milling someone with their knee? Before anyone says "you can't jump with straight legs", there is a difference between your knee being up from jumping, and the UTF style flying style knee that most keepers use. It's incredibly dangerous.
Are we really criticising players now for how high their knee is when they jump? :lol:
 

calodo2003

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I think jumping with your knee like that is absolute bullshit, it is essentially designed to mince anyone that comes near you. Why should keepers be allowed do it, when any other player would be penalised heavily for milling someone with their knee? Before anyone says "you can't jump with straight legs", there is a difference between your knee being up from jumping, and the UFC style flying style knee that most keepers use. It's incredibly dangerous.
Well, it’s how a keeper gains height on their jumps. It also acts as protection for the keeper. Not being able to use your knee as a keeper in this fashion would mean that the position would be radically altered.

These instances of freak, friendly fire injuries like this are so rare that they probably aren’t statistically relevant. There’s really not many injuries from the keeper on opposing players on an annual basis.

These injuries will always happen & they will always be rare. Instances like this don’t mean that radical changes are needed. Hell, not even Schumacher’s obliteration of Bettison was with a knee. It’s not like we are in circa 1910 America where players in American football were dying due to blows to the head & helmets were becoming mandatory.
 

calodo2003

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I’m not going to fault Henderson for going out with his knee, but that’s no longer standard technique when you go out to punch the ball clear. His coaches will work with him on that.

I also winced when he came out very wide left for the clearance into touch. Far too risky in face of far too little of an immediate threat.
What is this ‘new technique’ of which you speak? The keeper shouldn’t be using his leg as a propelling mechanism & as a safety device when attempting to punch a ball away / collect a ball in traffic?
 

Conor

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Well, it’s how a keeper gains height on their jumps. It also acts as protection for the keeper. Not being able to use your knee as a keeper in this fashion would mean that the position would be radically altered.

These instances of freak, friendly fire injuries like this are so rare that they probably aren’t statistically relevant. There’s really not many injuries from the keeper on opposing players on an annual basis.

These injuries will always happen & they will always be rare. Instances like this don’t mean that radical changes are needed. Hell, not even Schumacher’s obliteration of Bettison was with a knee. It’s not like we are in circa 1910 America where players in American football were dying due to blows to the head & helmets were becoming mandatory.
As I said, there is a difference between using your opposite leg to drive yourself upwards, and keeping the knee there indefinitely as 'protection'. The latter is completely dangerous, and always has been. There is no way any player on the pitch should be allowed to use something as potentially damaging as a kneecap to safeguard themselves from a challenge.
 

Sylar

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Since the post about Henderson technique being wrong, and people questioning it

Has it yet been posted what Henderson did wrong and what he should have done?

It's been a few days but it looks like criticism for the sake without back up evidence (unless I missed it)
 

calodo2003

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As I said, there is a difference between using your opposite leg to drive yourself upwards, and keeping the knee there indefinitely as 'protection'. The latter is completely dangerous, and always has been. There is no way any player on the pitch should be allowed to use something as potentially damaging as a kneecap to safeguard themselves from a challenge.
If you actually think that this collision fell into a malicious category, you have little understanding of the position.

A raised leg is not a battering ram; it is a barrier between the exposed parts of a goalkeeper & other players. Not being able to have some sort of barrier between the keeper & others exposes the chest / stomach / groin area of keepers to injury. Having a barrier causes others to not take that final step & limits excessive impact

Keepers don’t go around trying to use their knees as weapons, that’s asinine to say. Keepers are afforded a bit of protection due to the nature of their position. It’s that simple. There’s not unchecked mayhem through the use of their knees as weapons.
 

Conor

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If you actually think that this collision fell into a malicious category, you have little understanding of the position.

A raised leg is not a battering ram; it is a barrier between the exposed parts of a goalkeeper & other players. Not being able to have some sort of barrier between the keeper & others exposes the chest / stomach / groin area of keepers to injury. Having a barrier causes others to not take that final step & limits excessive impact

Keepers don’t go around trying to use their knees as weapons, that’s asinine to say. Keepers are afforded a bit of protection due to the nature of their position. It’s that simple. There’s not unchecked mayhem through the use of their knees as weapons.
I think every keeper that jumps in this way is essentially making it clear "challenge me and you're going to come off worse", to try and ward off challenges from opposition players. I have seen countless occurrences in amateur football where someone has been properly clobbered by a keeper doing this. I don't see why a keeper should be allowed to do it, they are jumping at the same height as everyone else, and can reach much higher than a player's head, the need for them to 'protect' themselves by flying at someone with a raised knee is nonsense, in my opinion.
 

calodo2003

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I think every keeper that jumps in this way is essentially making it clear "challenge me and you're going to come off worse", to try and ward off challenges from opposition players. I have seen countless occurrences in amateur football where someone has been properly clobbered by a keeper doing this. I don't see why a keeper should be allowed to do it, they are jumping at the same height as everyone else, and can reach much higher than a player's head, the need for them to 'protect' themselves by flying at someone with a raised knee is nonsense, in my opinion.
Okay. You’ve never played keeper at any level of skill, this is obvious. It’s specious at best to try to compare a Sunday league with professionals. To continue this discussion is going to be futile, I can tell.

There isn’t a spate of keeper assassins out there with their knees cocked & ready. There’s always going to be physical contact in the game, & being able to use your knee as a propellant or a protection device actually limits contact with keepers than invites or causes it. Yes, being able to raise a knee does offer protection against onrushing opponents, that’s actually one of the reasons it’s allowed. It alters their runs & saves impact on the keeper themselves. Keepers raise their knees while in a static position to ward off unwelcome contact to exposed areas.

Yes, it’s disappointing when collisions happen, but to think that scenarios like this are systemic in any level of the game is laughable.

Fouls have intent involved in them. Do you really think Henderson was intending to hurt anyone in this incident?
 

Conor

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Okay. You’ve never played keeper at any level of skill, this is obvious. It’s specious at best to try to compare a Sunday league with professionals. To continue this discussion is going to be futile, I can tell.

There isn’t a spate of keeper assassins out there with their knees cocked & ready. There’s always going to be physical contact in the game, & being able to use your knee as a propellant or a protection device actually limits contact with keepers than invites or causes it. Yes, being able to raise a knee does offer protection against onrushing opponents, that’s actually one of the reasons it’s allowed. It alters their runs & saves impact on the keeper themselves. Keepers raise their knees while in a static position to ward off unwelcome contact to exposed areas.

Yes, it’s disappointing when collisions happen, but to think that scenarios like this are systemic in any level of the game is laughable.

Fouls have intent involved in them. Do you really think Henderson was intending to hurt anyone in this incident?
I'm truly shocked that a goal keeper doesn't agree with me. As I have stated multiple times, I don't believe he is trying to injure someone intentionally, but I think this way of jumping is inherently dangerous to anyone involved in a collision with the keeper, and that this is intentional from the keeper's perspective, to discourage people from challenging them/colliding with them. You have literally confirmed this in your post, so I'm not sure what your point is. Can I go into a header with my elbows up, to ensure I don't get hit in the face by someone else's elbow? No, because it's dangerous and it's considered a foul. Keepers just do whatever they want in tackles, and never get called up on it.
 

calodo2003

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I'm truly shocked that a goal keeper doesn't agree with me. As I have stated multiple times, I don't believe he is trying to injure someone intentionally, but I think this way of jumping is inherently dangerous to anyone involved in a collision with the keeper, and that this is intentional from the keeper's perspective, to discourage people from challenging them/colliding with them. You have literally confirmed this in your post, so I'm not sure what your point is. Can I go into a header with my elbows up, to ensure I don't get hit in the face by someone else's elbow? No, because it's dangerous and it's considered a foul. Keepers just do whatever they want in tackles, and never get called up on it.
Well, going up high to collect a cross & one’s knee comes into contact with another player isn’t a ‘tackle’ by the definition of the word.

Yes, it’s to dissuade collisions from opposing players. That’s partially why the rule exists. Do you want to go back to when keepers were basically tackled by opposing players? This small semblance of safety is rarely used as an offensive weapon, basically never.

Again, as stated earlier, if you remove the ability for a keeper to use his / her legs as a body propellant to make saves, collect crosses, etc., you change the game radically. Then there shouldn’t be any balls played off the ground. See how silly that sounds.

Thankfully, criticisms like yours will never be taken seriously by the world governing bodies of football. We can agree to disagree here as we will just be wasting each other’s time discussing a fantasy land that will never come to be.
 

MadDogg

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I think every keeper that jumps in this way is essentially making it clear "challenge me and you're going to come off worse", to try and ward off challenges from opposition players. I have seen countless occurrences in amateur football where someone has been properly clobbered by a keeper doing this. I don't see why a keeper should be allowed to do it, they are jumping at the same height as everyone else, and can reach much higher than a player's head, the need for them to 'protect' themselves by flying at someone with a raised knee is nonsense, in my opinion.
It's not quite the same as other players, as keepers will normally do it while they have their arms outstretched above them leaving their unprotected torso as the main point of contact. It's much more vulnerable than outfield players who will be tanking most contact on their shoulders or arms, and even if it is contact to the torso they won't be as vulnerable as their arms won't be outstretched above them.
 

Moonis

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I would be happy with any change except for Henderson starting instead of DDG

Dont have much faith in him
 

Devil81

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Henderson is a good goalkeeper but he's not playing enough football to build confidence.

Defo think it's a risk playing him today, he's got the Europa league and fingers crossed a easier tie in the next round if we get through.

I'd go De Gea today myself.
 

Andycoleno9

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Henderson is a good goalkeeper but he's not playing enough football to build confidence.

Defo think it's a risk playing him today, he's got the Europa league and fingers crossed a easier tie in the next round if we get through.

I'd go De Gea today myself.
West Ham is next
 

sullydnl

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If we wanna see what he's made of we have to play him in at least some big games. I'd be fine with him starting today.
 

Devil81

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West Ham is next
I'd start him against West Ham, today would be a mistake though because people would always look at the goalkeeper change and heap pressure on both himself and Ole for making the change.

I forgot the draw had already been made.
 

Andycoleno9

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I'd start him against West Ham, today would be a mistake though because people would always look at the goalkeeper change and heap pressure on both himself and Ole for making the change.

I forgot the draw had already been made.
I am against rotating gk. Especially in PL. No2 should play only in cups vs low tier teams. And that is it.
 

lex talionis

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I support giving our backup keeper chances to play in important games. De Gea is a mature professional and won’t be put off by this and Henderson is potentially one for the future.

Matches like this give him an opportunity to improve his game and be ready if and when the call comes.
 

RedDevilRoshi

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I support giving our backup keeper chances to play in important games. De Gea is a mature professional and won’t be put off by this and Henderson is potentially one for the future.

Matches like this give him an opportunity to improve his game and be ready if and when the call comes.
Completely agree
 
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I support giving our backup keeper chances to play in important games. De Gea is a mature professional and won’t be put off by this and Henderson is potentially one for the future.

Matches like this give him an opportunity to improve his game and be ready if and when the call comes.
there’s a big difference between Henderson and Romero. Romero was never going to be no 1. Great back up keeper, but that’s it.

Henderson has a chance To be no 1. So does need games. He might never reach that goal, but is being given a chance to show whether he can.

I still don’t believe anyone but your no1 should play in the really big games. Hence if we got to a semi and or final, DDG should be back. The idea a ‘cup keeper’ should play every game in the cup is just wrong.
 

MikeKing

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He's a good GK, but not De Gea level. I dont feel confident about him yet. He seems a bit nervous?
I think that's just projection if you don't feel confident about him. I agree that he isn't De Gea, Allison etc level right now, not at all but I always feel confidence coming from him.
 

eire-red

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He's a good GK, but not De Gea level. I dont feel confident about him yet. He seems a bit nervous?
He won't produce the match winning saves DDG can do, but I think he's more dominant off his line, so can balance out his lack of ability in that sense with his aerial ability.

DDG saves 5-10 goals no other keeper can a season, but we concede more from corners and crosses. I think it will take a while to fully trust Henderson, but I think eventually he'll be our No. 1. Reminds me a bit of VDS, nothing flashy, but a real all rounder in his goalkeeping abilities. Of course, a bit to go for him to be at van der Sar's level.
 

RedIan

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I felt Degea would have saved the 2nd goal with his legs.. but he made up for it with some good stops.
 

bond19821982

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He was good today. That critical save against Salah was gold.
Straight at him. Should have saved Salahs second. Nothing spectacular. Just another game.

Distribution from back was good, if you really want to stretch.
 

criticalanalysis

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He won't produce the match winning saves DDG can do, but I think he's more dominant off his line, so can balance out his lack of ability in that sense with his aerial ability.

DDG saves 5-10 goals no other keeper can a season, but we concede more from corners and crosses. I think it will take a while to fully trust Henderson, but I think eventually he'll be our No. 1. Reminds me a bit of VDS, nothing flashy, but a real all rounder in his goalkeeping abilities. Of course, a bit to go for him to be at van der Sar's level.
This.

I thought he should have done better for both goals. Came rushing out and got too low on the first goal and perhaps a bit unlucky but poor feet for the second.

However, having said that, he did alright with the other routine saves and his general presence.

De Gea is rightfully no.1 but hopefully Henderson gets more games and can grow.
 

acnumber9

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He’s still a long way behind De Gea. He seems panicked all the time to me.
 

11101

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Decent enough but he's got a long way to go to match De Gea. To me he feels like he's lining up to be another Barthez/Bosnich/Howard post De Gea.
 

Alemar

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Rather poor performance today, at fault for the second goal - you can’t concede such shots between the legs.

That said, it was of course important to give him chance against highest level of opposition and he had this chance today.
 

AaronRedDevil

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Think he's like that because he isn't getting consistent games. You would be rusty or not as confident when they just put you in random games and not getting settled.
 

Falcow

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Thought he had a good game. Second goal.is all Cavanis fault.

In the Fulham match last week I thought Ddg could have done much better for their goal, refused to come off his line despite having all the time in the world to do so.

Henderson is decent I think and provides genuine competition for big Dave.
 

Cutch

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Rather poor performance today, at fault for the second goal - you can’t concede such shots between the legs.

That said, it was of course important to give him chance against highest level of opposition and he had this chance today.
You see goals like that going through the keepers legs all the time. Its actually a really good place to strike a ball if you get it right, and not necessarily the fault of a keeper who's trying to make himself big
 

RedDevilRoshi

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Maybe could have done a bit better with the 2nd pool goal but other than that, didn’t really put a foot wrong.

I feel, the more games he will play the better he will get.