[RonaldoVII]

He wasn't fit for yesterday's game. I think he'd have started otherwise but we'll never know and it's not Ralf's fault that he wasn't available.

 

[RedPed]

It is for us
Two first choice keepers, yes please, only thing we have going for us

And screw helping Newcastle

Henderson wasn't even a patch on Romero and it worked fine with him. Even good enough to win the Europa. No way would any manager do that with Henderson. A team like United has to have a clear #1. You can't have the #2 constantly bitching about the lack of playing time. He either puts up with it or goes. Imagine being the #3??

 

[SirScholes]

Henderson wasn't even a patch on Romero and it worked fine with him. Even good enough to win the Europa. No way would any manager do that with Henderson. A team like United has to have a clear #1. You can't have the #2 constantly bitching about the lack of playing time. He either puts up with it or goes. Imagine being the #3??

I think this is my point

we have a clear number 1, Henderson can go in the summer.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Just sell the bloke, whats the point in keeping him around?

I feel you could say this in about 10 different player threads at the moment...

 

[Mr.Plow]

Just sell the bloke, whats the point in keeping him around?

I feel you could say this in about 10 different player threads at the moment...

We rarely let anyone go, Ed is a hoarder of players.

 

[AltiUn]

If he wants to leave let him go, there's 0 benefit to keeping him around. Why do we hoard players? Any player who wants to go for any reason should be allowed to leave. 2 appearances this season, why wouldn't we sell him last summer when we could've gotten a fee for him? Our club really is monumentally stupid.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If he wants to leave let him go, there's 0 benefit to keeping him around. Why do we hoard players? Any player who wants to go for any reason should be allowed to leave. 2 appearances this season, why wouldn't we sell him last summer when we could've gotten a fee for him? Our club really is monumentally stupid.

He asked for an out 2 weeks back, not in summer

 

[AltiUn]

He asked for an out 2 weeks back, not in summer

I know he didn't ask to leave in summer, he should've been sold, we even brought in another keeper so it's not like we would've missed him. Solskjaer should've known his intentions for Henderson and sold him when we were able to command a respectable fee for him. Likewise with van de Beek and Lingard.

 

[Oranges038]

If he wants to leave let him go, there's 0 benefit to keeping him around. Why do we hoard players? Any player who wants to go for any reason should be allowed to leave. 2 appearances this season, why wouldn't we sell him last summer when we could've gotten a fee for him? Our club really is monumentally stupid.

He was kept last summer because until he got covid and was out he was probably going to be no.1 this season. Because of how well he did last year and how much better the team performed with him playing than with DDG.

Unfortunately for him DDG has once again fooled most people into thinking he's a top keeper having a great season and he's been left on the sideline.

 

[Ali Dia]

I know he didn't ask to leave in summer, he should've been sold, we even brought in another keeper so it's not like we would've missed him. Solskjaer should've known his intentions for Henderson and sold him when we were able to command a respectable fee for him. Likewise with van de Beek and Lingard.

In that case weren’t we stupid putting him on wages no club is realistically going to match? Surely by keeping the wages down you can command a much bigger fee. We do everything backwards at this club. Clearly not interested in making money selling players. Just spending money keeping unhappy ones .

 

[RedDevil@84]

I know he didn't ask to leave in summer, he should've been sold, we even brought in another keeper so it's not like we would've missed him. Solskjaer should've known his intentions for Henderson and sold him when we were able to command a respectable fee for him. Likewise with van de Beek and Lingard.

We can't keep selling every backup player. It is a strange ask.

 

[Bebestation]

He was kept last summer because until he got covid and was out he was probably going to be no.1 this season. Because of how well he did last year and how much better the trteam am performed with him playing than with DDG.

Unfortunately for him DDG has once again fooled most people into thinking he's a top keeper having a great season and he's been left on the sideline.

Exactly.

I just can't wait for De Gea to retire or leave.

I'm just hoping our next manager has the Pep like mindset of knowing that Joe Hart wasn't good enough the same way De Gea isn't.

 

[Oranges038]

Exactly.

I just can't wait for De Gea to retire or leave.

I'm just hoping our next manager has the Pep like mindset of knowing that Joe Hart wasn't good enough the same way De Gea isn't.

Pretty much. DDG is just not the right fit for the team going forward.

Henderson might not be the long term answer. But, he should be given a shot before the club go spunking away money on someone else.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I'm just hoping our next manager has the Pep like mindset of knowing that Joe Hart wasn't good enough the same way De Gea isn't.

But in that case we wouldn't have an average keeper like Henderson in the team as well. We would still need new keepers.

 

[Bebestation]

But in that case we wouldn't have an average keeper like Henderson in the team as well. We would still need new keepers.

That may be - but as far as I knew Pep got rid of Joe Hart because he doesn't have the capability to be as all rounded and good with his feet as Ederson is.

I don't think he just got rid of Joe Hart just because he wasn't a top class GK.

 

[TheReligion]

He was kept last summer because until he got covid and was out he was probably going to be no.1 this season. Because of how well he did last year and how much better the team performed with him playing than with DDG.

Unfortunately for him DDG has once again fooled most people into thinking he's a top keeper having a great season and he's been left on the sideline.

Wait. DDG has fooled people? How has he managed that? By just playing well?

Strange comment painting De Gea as Harry Houdini

 

[SATA]

Heaton is a very decent enough back up. Why does Ralf think he needs three senior goalkeepers when only one can play? Just let Dean go somewhere else to restart his career whether it's on loan or permanent. And Lee Grant is still eligible as a registered player yes?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Wait. DDG has fooled people? How has he managed that? By just playing well?

Strange comment painting De Gea as Harry Houdini

I hate when players have multiple good seasons, and people think they're good as a result. Bloody fraudsters.

 

[Castia]

Why the hell are we stockpiling these players? Could have got 60m for Henderson and Lingard last year yet kept them on the bench barely used

 

[Oranges038]

Wait. DDG has fooled people? How has he managed that? By just playing well?

Strange comment painting De Gea as Harry Houdini

Not really, he's made some decent saves but his overall goalkeeping performances still leave a lot to be desired.

He's a relic in goalkeeping terms, his camera saves have blinded a lot of people to that.

He needs moving on if this team is going to progress to a higher pressing more proactive game. It's the same reasons he doesn't play for Spain anymore.

 

[JB7]

Wait. DDG has fooled people? How has he managed that? By just playing well?

Strange comment painting De Gea as Harry Houdini

Because he isn't playing particularly well, he's doing what he has always done which is occasionally make genuinely excellent saves, make a large number of regular saves you would expect any PL goalkeeper to make (such as from Matty Cash last night) which bizarrely wows people and causing the defence constant problems by offering them no help whatsoever with crosses into the box or with sweeping behind them.

He won our player of the month for November for example, despite being badly at fault for both goals at Atalanta, one of the goals against City and at least two against Watford.

No other top side would play him. We've just played Wolves and Aston Villa in our last two games, both bang average mid tables sides, neither of them would swap their goalkeepers for him yet we've got people trying to make out he's having a great season. It would be comical if it wasn't so infuriating watching him every game.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Wait. DDG has fooled people? How has he managed that? By just playing well?

Strange comment painting De Gea as Harry Houdini

Apparently, playing well is not enough. You need "modern" abilities.

With our back line, I am not so sure what will happen if our keeper shoots off from his line to "quell the danger" in advance. Is there some stat on how advantageous it is? I am of the belief that if the forward is of good quality, then they may easily be able to confuse/round off the keepr and score an easy goal. But I maybe wrong.

 

[JB7]

Apparently, playing well is not enough. You need "modern" abilities.

With our back line, I am not so sure what will happen if our keeper shoots off from his line to "quell the danger" in advance. Is there some stat on how advantageous it is? I am of the belief that if the forward is of good quality, then they may easily be able to confuse/round off the keepr and score an easy goal. But I maybe wrong.

"Modern abilities" that were present in Schmeichel and VDS several years ago. They're not modern abilities at all, they're basic fundamental parts of goalkeeping and have been for years & years.

 

[TheReligion]

Not really, he's made some decent saves but his overall goalkeeping performances still leave a lot to be desired.

He's a relic in goalkeeping terms, his camera saves have blinded a lot of people to that.

He needs moving on if this team is going to progress to a higher pressing more proactive game. It's the same reasons he doesn't play for Spain anymore.

Because he isn't playing particularly well, he's doing what he has always done which is occasionally make genuinely excellent saves, make a large number of regular saves you would expect any PL goalkeeper to make (such as from Matty Cash last night) which bizarrely wows people and causing the defence constant problems by offering them no help whatsoever with crosses into the box or with sweeping behind them.

He won our player of the month for November for example, despite being badly at fault for both goals at Atalanta, one of the goals against City and at least two against Watford.

No other top side would play him. We've just played Wolves and Aston Villa in our last two games, both bang average mid tables sides, neither of them would swap their goalkeepers for him yet we've got people trying to make out he's having a great season. It would be comical if it wasn't so infuriating watching him every game.

I think most people with two eyes recognise that De Gea is the least of our problems at the moment.

 

[devips]

I think most people with two eyes recognise that De Gea is the least of our problems at the moment.

He may be the least of our problems at the moment, but remains a problem nonetheless.

A problem to which we have to find a solution sooner or later, the sooner the better.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

Because he isn't playing particularly well, he's doing what he has always done which is occasionally make genuinely excellent saves, make a large number of regular saves you would expect any PL goalkeeper to make (such as from Matty Cash last night) which bizarrely wows people and causing the defence constant problems by offering them no help whatsoever with crosses into the box or with sweeping behind them.

He won our player of the month for November for example, despite being badly at fault for both goals at Atalanta, one of the goals against City and at least two against Watford.

No other top side would play him. We've just played Wolves and Aston Villa in our last two games, both bang average mid tables sides, neither of them would swap their goalkeepers for him yet we've got people trying to make out he's having a great season. It would be comical if it wasn't so infuriating watching him every game.

Agree with this 100%, and have said so for the entire time De Gea has been here (for most of which our defence has been a complete shambles with De Gea as the common denominator).

It's infuriating that he doesn't just get away with it but is actually made out to be some sort of saviour for putting out fires that he's started.

£375,000 a week for a player that actually makes your team weaker, Manchester United ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Kerry Donaghy]

Apparently, playing well is not enough. You need "modern" abilities.

With our back line, I am not so sure what will happen if our keeper shoots off from his line to "quell the danger" in advance. Is there some stat on how advantageous it is? I am of the belief that if the forward is of good quality, then they may easily be able to confuse/round off the keepr and score an easy goal. But I maybe wrong.

We seen it last year when Henderson got a run in the team and the answer is:

We conceded fewer goals on average.

We scored more goals on average (because a proactive keeper can contribute to the attack as well as the defence).

We won more games on average.

In summary, overall we where a much better team.

 

[sullydnl]

There are two slightly separate issues.

One is De Gea and his weaknesses. The reality is that his inability to snuff out chances through claiming/sweeping puts him in a position where he has to do more shot-stopping relative to other goalkeepers. The impact of those extra chances he concedes relative to other goalkeepers weighs significantly against the impact of his excellent shot-stopping relative to other goalkeepers. But because people see a goal prevented with a save far more easily the goals prevented by killing chances before they develop, people tend to place more weight on the former rather than the latter. All those question marks against De Gea are fine and fairly common sense even without delving into statistical analysis.

But the other question is whether Dean Henderson, who at nearly 25 years old has just one and a half seasons of PL experience under his belt, is the guy to supplant a David De Gea in top shot-stopping form as United #1. Because De Gea has been excelling to such an extent in shot-stopping this season that he is very much still a net positive even with his downsides, albeit in a way that is less sustainable than simply being a more rounded keeper would be. And Henderson clearly still has a lot to prove. Had he not already been on the books here while De Gea was in bad form then nobody would have been calling for the Sheffield United goalkeeper who was good for one season to be brought in. He got lucky to get the chance he did and ultimately he didn't do enough to take the jersey, albeit having been unlucky with the timing of his bout of Covid.

 

[We need an rvn]

He may be the least of our problems at the moment, but remains a problem nonetheless.

A problem to which we have to find a solution sooner or later, the sooner the better.

it's not that complicated though is it?

Dean is on a six year contract until 2026. DDG has turned his form around and possibly rightly the no. 1, whilst Dean is too good to be a number 2 on the bench.

DDG contract runs out in 2023, on £375k p/w, whilst Dean is on £120k p/w until 2026

Simply send Dean out on loan again and see how he does.

If he does well, DDG form drops - then DDG goes on a free and we have Dean (on top of a number of prospects in the reserves and youth). DDG does maintains his standard, we let DDG leave on a free as he won't drop his salary from £375k p/w to £120k p/w and Dean takes over unless he's been truly shite at his loan deal

 

[Oranges038]

I think most people with two eyes recognise that De Gea is the least of our problems at the moment.

Only if those people just don't understand that a goalkeeper has to do a lot more other than make a few saves.

I've said this to others on here. But anyway, go play in goal for a good chunk of games at any level and just do it how DDG does. Don't communicate, don't come for crosses, don't sweep, don't show for passes. Just stay in your 6 yard box and retreat to your line and wait to make saves. Then come back and tell me it doesn't create confusion and panic at the back.

Like it or not, his style of goalkeeping is not suited to how a Utd side should be playing. Henderson might not be the answer, but last season throughout his run of games he proved he's better suited to the team than DGG.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Send the man on loan. He deserves to play and we'll benefit from it too if he plays well.

 

[JB7]

I think most people with two eyes recognise that De Gea is the least of our problems at the moment.

But ultimately he is still a problem. And the big issue with him is that he's a problem that exacerbates our defensive issues because there is zero relationship between him and the defenders. Last night was case in point for that.

There are two slightly separate issues.

One is De Gea and his weaknesses. The reality is that his inability to snuff out chances through claiming/sweeping puts him in a position where he has to do more shot-stopping relative to other goalkeepers. The impact of those extra chances he concedes relative to other goalkeepers weighs significantly against the impact of his excellent shot-stopping relative to other goalkeepers. But because people see a goal prevented with a save far more easily the goals prevented by killing chances before they develop, people tend to place more weight on the former rather than the latter. All those question marks against De Gea are fine and fairly common sense even without delving into statistical analysis.

But the other question is whether Dean Henderson, who at nearly 25 years old has just one and a half seasons of PL experience under his belt, is the guy to supplant a David De Gea in top shot-stopping form as United #1. Because De Gea has been excelling to such an extent in shot-stopping this season that he is very much still a net positive even with his downsides, albeit in a way that is less sustainable than simply being a more rounded keeper would be. And Henderson clearly still has a lot to prove. Had he not already been on the books here while De Gea was in bad form then nobody would have been calling for the Sheffield United goalkeeper who was good for one season to be brought in. He got lucky to get the chance he did and ultimately he didn't do enough to take the jersey, albeit having been unlucky with the timing of his bout of Covid.

You are absolutely correct on point one. I don't think anyone on here is claiming that Henderson is definitely the answer long-term for us, nobody knows if he is. What is clear is that De Gea unfortunately is not due to the flaws in his game you have highlighted and the stats show that the team is better suited to a different style of goalkeeper.

However I don't agree with you saying he didn't do enough to keep the shirt. As has been repeated multiple times, every single performance metric improved while he was in goal. He made a couple of bad errors, admittedly which stand out in peoples memory, but so did De Gea last season (and this season as well). It was pretty universally reported that Henderson was going to begin the season as number one so the manager clearly thought he did enough with his chance as well. And in the interests of fairness, he'd had three exceptional seasons out on loan by the way, not just one.

 

[Relevated]

Imagine winning the league with Newcastle before you even come close with Man Utd

 

[devips]

it's not that complicated though is it?

Dean is on a six year contract until 2026. DDG has turned his form around and possibly rightly the no. 1, whilst Dean is too good to be a number 2 on the bench.

DDG contract runs out in 2023, on £375k p/w, whilst Dean is on £120k p/w until 2026

Simply send Dean out on loan again and see how he does.

If he does well, DDG form drops - then DDG goes on a free and we have Dean (on top of a number of prospects in the reserves and youth). DDG does maintains his standard, we let DDG leave on a free as he won't drop his salary from £375k p/w to £120k p/w and Dean takes over unless he's been truly shite at his loan deal

Yes. I think this solution should work. Maybe this is what the club is going to do.

 

[Caesar2290]

How does it compare with other teams, say Chelsea or Liverpool. Mendy and Allison pretty much played all season I think, at least all major games. And if I remember correctly Henderson was ill at start of season, paving way for De Gea cementing the spot.

Thing is he was promissed a chance to fight it out with DDG. DDG cemented his spot while Henderson sick. After that Henderson wasn't even given a sniff at the the No. 1 spot. That's not how you let your player fight it out for their spots. Henderson is a very ambitious lad. So he wants to leave so he can preserve his career.

Now the fans are like "he has a contract and has to honor" while at the same time they're like "why do we have so many unhappy players on the books"

 

[sullydnl]

But ultimately he is still a problem. And the big issue with him is that he's a problem that exacerbates our defensive issues because there is zero relationship between him and the defenders. Last night was case in point for that.

You are absolutely correct on point one. I don't think anyone on here is claiming that Henderson is definitely the answer long-term for us, nobody knows if he is. What is clear is that De Gea unfortunately is not due to the flaws in his game you have highlighted and the stats show that the team is better suited to a different style of goalkeeper.

However I don't agree with you saying he didn't do enough to keep the shirt. As has been repeated multiple times, every single performance metric improved while he was in goal. He made a couple of bad errors, admittedly which stand out in peoples memory, but so did De Gea last season (and this season as well). It was pretty universally reported that Henderson was going to begin the season as number one so the manager clearly thought he did enough with his chance as well. And in the interests of fairness, he'd had three exceptional seasons out on loan by the way, not just one.

I would certainly agree that he performed better statistically than De Gea last season. And going into this season I would have picked Henderson as first choice, despite my affection for De Gea.

But De Gea's shot-stopping form has been insanely better this season than it was last. From PSxG+/-/90 of -0.01 last season to +0.40 this season. For context in 17/18 (the Mourinho 2nd place season which was the last in which De Gea was perceived as carrying us) he was at +0.23. And Henderson's best season so far in the PL in this regard is +0.14. That's quite a massive gap to bridge with other strengths.

So while in general I fully accept that De Gea should ultimately be replaced and think his ability to continue compensating through shot-stopping to this extent is unsustutainable, I find it very hard to make an argument for Henderson displacing De Gea right now while he is compensating to that extent. Because this De Gea is clearly operating to a much higher level that the one Henderson was facing off against last season.

 

[red4ever 79]

He's done here now. Walked out on Monday after being told he wouldnt be starting against Villa in the cup. That's why he wasnt in the squad,

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

He's done here now. Walked out on Monday after being told he wouldnt be starting against Villa in the cup. That's why he wasnt in the squad,

Wow.

 

[saivet]

He's done here now. Walked out on Monday after being told he wouldnt be starting against Villa in the cup. That's why he wasnt in the squad,

Source?

 

[SparkedIntoLife]

Stephen Howson said today that he's heard reliably that Henderson is the (main) player leaking negative United stories to the press. On a very recent Vibe with Five, also with Howson, and Rio Ferdinand was targeting a specific player he wouldn't name and basically called said player a coward who isn't happy with his lot so is trying to bring everyone else down. Later in the same video, Rio, by implication, ruled out the obvious candidates for this "coward" - not Lingard, not Pogba etc.

Howson also stated that he's heard that Henderson isn't the only one but may well be the main one.