Debunking the this squad came 2nd in 20/21 theory

[UnitedFire]

It was a covid year...hardly a comparative

The squad included
Ole freestyle football, i.e. very different style...him and all staff gone. We had the 2nd highest pens at 11.

Pogba...21 games, 5 subs, 3 goals he has gone
Greenwood...21 games, 10 subs, 7 goals...on extended bail, may never return
Cavani...13 games 13 subs, 10 goals, he has gone
Matic...12 games, 8 subs, he has gone
Henderson...12 games, 1 sub, he has gone on loan
Mata 6 games, 3 subs, 1 goal...gone
James, 11 games, 4 subs, 3 goals...gone

Martial 17 games, 5 subs, 4 goals. He has become even worse and getting less games and goals.
Rashford 33 games, 4 subs, 11 goals. He has since had surgery and got 4 goals in 25 games. Not the same player.

Bruno, 35 games, 2 subs, 18 goals (9 were pens) Without so many pens he got 10 goals the following year so not quite so stand out.

There is very little about that season that is the same. In theory we should have improved after that season. James out and in came Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane.

Ronaldo has been our best player and wants to leave. Despite him being the best we have still overall been shit. A lot of what worked in 20/21 won't work again.

So yeah enough of 20/21 comparisons and positivity. I'm not buying it.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

We all know this, its no secret. That squad and Ole were shit. Liverpool and Chelsea were also out of it for well known reasons too. That second potisition was a fluke

 

[UnitedFire]

We all know this, its no secret. That squad and Ole were shit. Liverpool and Chelsea were also out of it for well known reasons too. That second potisition was a fluke

I literally just saw someone trying to say the same thing. It annoyed me so much I made this thread!

 

[Gazza]

So, just the 4 threads started today, @UnitedFire ?

 

[Rozay]

It actually isn’t a theory, we really came second.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

There’s no ‘debunking’, it’s a fact, they finished 2nd. The previous season they finished 3rd. It was somewhat inflated because Liverpool were flattened by injuries. But the table says second.

What I find more disingenuous is people saying that we have always been how we were when we were distant 6th last season and getting thrashed 5 odd goals by City and Liverpool. When we beat City a few times in previous seasons and prided ourselves on competing in those big games. Last season was a monumental collapse that was different from the previous two seasons before that.

You brought up penalties as one example, Martial is one of the best players in the league at winning penalties given his directness in dribbling and speed around the box. It’s no surprise that we won a lot less penalties when we replaced him with Ronaldo who didn’t dribble. Similarly Rashford won plenty of penalties in previous seasons, but he was out of sorts and/or injured last season so he didn’t run at defenders in the same way.

I would say Covid pandemic was somewhat irrelevant to performance on the pitch. Everyone had the same situation.

 

[Cheimoon]

So yeah enough of 20/21 comparisons and positivity. I'm not buying it.

I'll turn that around and say 'enough with the negativity'. All this doom and gloom is depressing and a seriously bore for the forum more generally. It is also insane given how much changed at United in the past few months and how early in the summer it still is. If anything, this a good time for some positivity.

Also, there is no need to start threads on anything possibly or actually negative under the sun. Please don't become the next @Schmeichel's Cartwheel.

 

[Sky1981]

2nd is 2nd all ifs and buts

Pappered over the cracks, lucky, etc. It's still 2nd

Just like jose was still 2nd all things considered

 

[UnitedFire]

It actually isn’t a theory, we really came second.

The key part is the 'THIS' squad. My point is significant parts of the squad that got us 2nd aren't here, or like Rashford and Martial have declined.

 

[UnitedFire]

So, just the 4 threads started today, @UnitedFire ?

I've got threads for dayyyysss. So much thread I'm thinking of setting up a new clothes retail store. I was hoping to go with the name Manchester United, but apparently they are already a big retail outlet who specialise in Vibez!

 

[OpenIntrovert]

It was a covid year...hardly a comparative

The squad included
Ole freestyle football, i.e. very different style...him and all staff gone. We had the 2nd highest pens at 11.

Pogba...21 games, 5 subs, 3 goals he has gone
Greenwood...21 games, 10 subs, 7 goals...on extended bail, may never return
Cavani...13 games 13 subs, 10 goals, he has gone
Matic...12 games, 8 subs, he has gone
Henderson...12 games, 1 sub, he has gone on loan
Mata 6 games, 3 subs, 1 goal...gone
James, 11 games, 4 subs, 3 goals...gone

Martial 17 games, 5 subs, 4 goals. He has become even worse and getting less games and goals.
Rashford 33 games, 4 subs, 11 goals. He has since had surgery and got 4 goals in 25 games. Not the same player.

Bruno, 35 games, 2 subs, 18 goals (9 were pens) Without so many pens he got 10 goals the following year so not quite so stand out.

There is very little about that season that is the same. In theory we should have improved after that season. James out and in came Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane.

Ronaldo has been our best player and wants to leave. Despite him being the best we have still overall been shit. A lot of what worked in 20/21 won't work again.

So yeah enough of 20/21 comparisons and positivity. I'm not buying it.

There is a difference between a fan and a manager. A fan will bring out stuff like Covid year while a manager will look at the overall performances of the team and realize that their movement and mentality is not the same as the season they came 2nd. This is why ETH iterated that this squad came in 2nd during 20/21 season. Besides Cavani, Greenwood and Pogba, most of the first team players are still around and it is important to note that Cavani and Pogba did not play a lot of games that season, due to niggling injuries. Cavani's form mainly came during the 3/4 point of the season.

In other words, the performances last season has something to do with external factors rather than the players suddenly losing their talents. You will be surprised to know that mentality and fitness issues can wreak havoc in a team. Just ask Liverpool in 20/21. They look like they could lose to anyone for a period of time.

 

[Becks_VII]

But we did finish second, it doesnt matter how terrible other teams were.

Its like debunking Leicester Citys title win, ye sure it was out of the ordinary, but it still happened.

We are not in the best top 3-4 teams in the league right now and a lot of work to be done, but lets give ETH a chance to show what he can do with some of these players, because they are certainly not as bad as they showed last season.

 

[Reditus]

I agree It was a good season and I quite enjoyed it. In terms of covid everyone was in the same boat

Unbeaten away all season was impressive

 

[simonhch]

Does it need debunking? We came 6th last year. I’d consider it debunked already.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

You do realize we actually came 2nd right?

It's not theoretical.

 

[JB7]

You do realize we actually came 2nd right?

It's not theoretical.

Yes but it was everyone else's fault for getting less points than us, not because we got more points than 18 other teams.

 

[Amarsdd]

I'm waiting for a thread to say the 18 other teams in the league conspired to make us finish 2nd that season just so to make Ole and the squad look good and they would be kept on for another season.

 

[elmo]

All you need to see is the points total and realise it was the lowest for second place in years. A healthy Liverpool and Chelsea without a transfer ban was always going to finish ahead of us.

 

[tenpoless]

How do you debunk that which is not a myth?

 

[Red_toad]

So yeah enough of 20/21 comparisons and positivity. I'm not buying it.

So you’re debunking a fact as a theory? Feckin shite people offer up as threads

 

[Mainoldo]

It means 18 teams finished below us. I don’t know what requires debating.

Yes Liverpool had injures but without them they finished 1st, now they are second. Does that mean their first was a myth.

Chelsea didn’t have a competent manager for most of the season. Well they had one this season and moved up one place. So does that mean the incompetent manager wasn’t that incompetent?

End of the day we still had players good enough to get us top 4 finishes two seasons in a row. Yes there were a few discrepancies, the manager being a big one but when you try running before you start jogging (Needlessly buying CR7) these things can happen.

 

[SoCross]

So you’re debunking a fact as a theory? Feckin shite people offer up as threads

It’s just crazy

 

[roonster09]

So yeah enough of 20/21 comparisons and positivity. I'm not buying it.

Don't buy it.

I barely saw anyone saying squad is good because we finished 2nd couple of seasons ago, what I have seen is players are lot better than what they showed last season.

 

[roonster09]

All you need to see is the points total and realise it was the lowest for second place in years. A healthy Liverpool and Chelsea without a transfer ban was always going to finish ahead of us.

Chelsea didn't have transfer ban when we finished second.

 

[Wibble]

We came second
A number of the players who came second have now left.

We know. So why is a thread needed? If someone said any different answer them in that thread.