Declan Rice

POF

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Yea, fair point there actually. I don't really see how any rule could be implemented though to kind of deal with those situations as it would become a bit of a grey area. Allowing switchbacks but without opening for constant switches. I think the one time switch is just used for the simplicity of it. But you're right, I didn't really think of it like that.

Someone like Jack Grealish does feel a strong connection to Ireland and he was forced to make a very difficult decision. I'd certainly welcome him back to Ireland if it was allowed. I certainly don't envy these lads making these choices, you almost instantly become an enemy of one of your nationalities which is a shame.
It's definitely not an easy solution but I think players should be allowed to switch if they haven't played senior international football. Once you play for a country in a senior international game (even a friendly), that should be it.

Jack Grealish isn't eligible to play senior football for Ireland but Nathan Redmond who has almost 80 England underage caps (and one senior cap in a friendly) apparently is.
 

DWelbz19

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Getting James McCarthy vibes from an excited few here. The next Carrick was always a chuckle.
Hah jeez. McCarthy and Coleman were staples in so many hypothetical XIs for a good year and a half. Darker times.
 

sullydnl

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Hah jeez. McCarthy and Coleman were staples in so many hypothetical XIs for a good year and a half. Darker times.
Ah in fairness Coleman was a better shout than McCarthy (who I must very guiltily admit to talking up). He actually was one of the league's best RBs at the time and that leg break could hardly have been anticipated. I mean the year we were bigging up Coleman the most was the year we ended up signing Darmian instead.....
 

DWelbz19

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:lol: They were both thoroughly average players who were being hyped for very obvious reasons on this forum.
 

Minimalist

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Watched West Ham a few times this season, including the other night, what's he supposed to excel at apart from causing a headache for the Irish national side?

Looks very ordinary to me.
 

duffer

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Watched West Ham a few times this season, including the other night, what's he supposed to excel at apart from causing a headache for the Irish national side?

Looks very ordinary to me.
He's looked at home in the premier league despite being a teenager, that's pretty rare, especially for a defender.
 

sullydnl

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:lol: They were both thoroughly average players who were being hyped for very obvious reasons on this forum.
Nah, we're talking about a period in which Coleman was being nominated for PFA young player of the year, named in the PFA team of the year, winning Everton's player of the year prizes and being hailed as one of the league's best defenders by various pundits and journalists. The likes of Gary Neville & Jamie Carragher were describing him in that way, not just the Irish fans who overpopulate this particular forum.

Comparing him to McCarthy (who actually did turn out to be shite) is unfair.
 

Minimalist

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He's looked at home in the premier league despite being a teenager, that's pretty rare, especially for a defender.
Suppose that does raise the eyebrows. Though can't help but think there's been many young players like that, who went on to do very little.
 

yumtum

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I'm confused, just looked at wiki and he's played thrice for Ireland? Does that not mean he's already committed?

Also, if he's already playing for Ireland then surely he "feels" more Irish than English (don't know how), seems to me he thought he wouldn't be good enough for England, and just wanted to play international football to get more exposure, but then realised maybe he could get some minutes for England (Dier does...) And fancies a switch to a team who's more likely to get to bigger tournaments.

He's a cnut basically, if I were Irish I wouldn't want him back, the only reason he'd stop playing for Ireland and consider switching to England is if he didn't think Ireland was good enough for him and that he could do better.

If I were a footballer I could choose between England and Wales, I'd choose Wales as I "feel" more Welsh (because I am) and I doubt I'd consider switching after playing a few games for Wales, you'd rightly be seen as a cnut if you then decided to stick with that country.

He's made his bed.
 

Nick7

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I'm confused, just looked at wiki and he's played thrice for Ireland? Does that not mean he's already committed?

Also, if he's already playing for Ireland then surely he "feels" more Irish than English (don't know how), seems to me he thought he wouldn't be good enough for England, and just wanted to play international football to get more exposure, but then realised maybe he could get some minutes for England (Dier does...) And fancies a switch to a team who's more likely to get to bigger tournaments.

He's a cnut basically, if I were Irish I wouldn't want him back, the only reason he'd stop playing for Ireland and consider switching to England is if he didn't think Ireland was good enough for him and that he could do better.

If I were a footballer I could choose between England and Wales, I'd choose Wales as I "feel" more Welsh (because I am) and I doubt I'd consider switching after playing a few games for Wales, you'd rightly be seen as a cnut if you then decided to stick with that country.

He's made his bed.
He hasn't played a competitive international. Still has the option of a one time switch.

I don't want him playing for Ireland.
 

Lennon7

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:lol: They were both thoroughly average players who were being hyped for very obvious reasons on this forum.
Not sure how you can say that, when fit and playing they were both decent players, especially Coleman. Both had bad injuries quite often. It happens a lot in football, you just seem against them both for one reason or another.....
 

yumtum

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He hasn't played a competitive international. Still has the option of a one time switch.

I don't want him playing for Ireland.
Ah yes, friendlies don't count! Thanks for the reminder.

Yeah I don't know how he thought it'd be a good idea to publicly announce he was considering opting for England, missing 3 rounds of internationals for Ireland and take all this time.

It's a decision you'd make in between your last friendly appearance and the next international game, now he's going to be a cnut either way, and should rightfully be unwelcome by the Irish, his only real option is to choose England.

Is he that good anyway? I personally never watch West Ham.
 

sullydnl

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I'm confused, just looked at wiki and he's played thrice for Ireland? Does that not mean he's already committed?

Also, if he's already playing for Ireland then surely he "feels" more Irish than English (don't know how), seems to me he thought he wouldn't be good enough for England, and just wanted to play international football to get more exposure, but then realised maybe he could get some minutes for England (Dier does...) And fancies a switch to a team who's more likely to get to bigger tournaments.

He's a cnut basically, if I were Irish I wouldn't want him back, the only reason he'd stop playing for Ireland and consider switching to England is if he didn't think Ireland was good enough for him and that he could do better.

If I were a footballer I could choose between England and Wales, I'd choose Wales as I "feel" more Welsh (because I am) and I doubt I'd consider switching after playing a few games for Wales, you'd rightly be seen as a cnut if you then decided to stick with that country.

He's made his bed.
It's a bit more complicated than that though. Not everyone automatically feels more one than the other, or maintains that same feeling as they grow older. I know my sister used to feel very English when she was younger but grew to describe herself as Irish as she got older.

Plus then you have the likes of James McCarthy, who committed to Ireland in large part because of his close relationship to his Irish grandfather, who wanted him to play for Ireland. That's just one very valid reason for choosing a country that isn't based on how you yourself "feel".
 

poleglass red

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Suppose that does raise the eyebrows. Though can't help but think there's been many young players like that, who went on to do very little.
he played defensive mid the other night. his positioning not just for his age but any age is top class.very good player who cuts out so many opposition attacks.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I'm confused, just looked at wiki and he's played thrice for Ireland? Does that not mean he's already committed?

Also, if he's already playing for Ireland then surely he "feels" more Irish than English (don't know how), seems to me he thought he wouldn't be good enough for England, and just wanted to play international football to get more exposure, but then realised maybe he could get some minutes for England (Dier does...) And fancies a switch to a team who's more likely to get to bigger tournaments.

He's a cnut basically, if I were Irish I wouldn't want him back, the only reason he'd stop playing for Ireland and consider switching to England is if he didn't think Ireland was good enough for him and that he could do better.

If I were a footballer I could choose between England and Wales, I'd choose Wales as I "feel" more Welsh (because I am) and I doubt I'd consider switching after playing a few games for Wales, you'd rightly be seen as a cnut if you then decided to stick with that country.

He's made his bed.
He born and raised in England to an English mother and Irish father. He probably played for Ireland as a youth because his dad wanted him to. He can make his own choice now.

Personally I don’t think he’s that good. Reminds me of Eric Dier i.e. he looks like a centre back playing midfield. He’s probably not quite as good as Dier.
 

yumtum

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He born and raised in England to an English mother and Irish father. He probably played for Ireland as a youth because his dad wanted him to. He can make his own choice now.

Personally I don’t think he’s that good. Reminds me of Eric Dier i.e. he looks like a centre back playing midfield. He’s probably not quite as good as Dier.
His Wiki page says English parents, so I assumed he only had relatives that were Irish, that does make it a little bit more complicated.

@sullydnl I agree that there are sometimes circumstances that could away things, but I was under the impression that both his parents were English and he was born and raised English, would be exteextre unlikely that he'd feel Irish unless he spent a significant amount of time in Ireland, or around his parents, but as I was just informed, he has an Irish dad, which obviously would make him feel conflicted, but to play a few games for one country and then take a sabbatical to possibly change allegiances won't do him any favours with the Irish support.
 

limerickcitykid

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His Wiki page says English parents, so I assumed he only had relatives that were Irish, that does make it a little bit more complicated.

@sullydnl I agree that there are sometimes circumstances that could away things, but I was under the impression that both his parents were English and he was born and raised English, would be exteextre unlikely that he'd feel Irish unless he spent a significant amount of time in Ireland, or around his parents, but as I was just informed, he has an Irish dad, which obviously would make him feel conflicted, but to play a few games for one country and then take a sabbatical to possibly change allegiances won't do him any favours with the Irish support.
His father's place of birth is completely irrelevant. Being born in England doesn't stop you from being Irish. I wasn't born in Ireland, I'm still Irish. When I have kids I'll still be Irish despite not being born there.

You also have no idea how he feels so why do you feel the need to act the nationality police?
 

yumtum

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His father's place of birth is completely irrelevant. Being born in England doesn't stop you from being Irish. I wasn't born in Ireland, I'm still Irish. When I have kids I'll still be Irish despite not being born there.

You also have no idea how he feels so why do you feel the need to act the nationality police?
Nationality police? :lol: don't be so sensitive, I'm calling the guy out for playing all his life for Ireland (youth and a few games for the seniors) and suddenly changing his mind because he might have a shot with a bigger team.

As I said when I wrote that (I said I read wiki) which says he has English parents and born and raised in England, it's highly likely you'll grow up feeling English.

All I'm saying is that changing allegiances and doing so publicly won't do you any favours.
 

Raees

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Haven’t watched him closely but he plays in what is a very big problem position for England. CDM has become the infamous left wing problem England had during Giggs prime.. would hate to lose someone like Rice if he does live up to the hype.
 

jem

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:lol: They were both thoroughly average players who were being hyped for very obvious reasons on this forum.
I think Coleman would have been a sound addition to our team; McCarthy, despite being a pretty good player, smacked more of a desperate wish to unearth the next Carrick.
 

IRELANDUNITED

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I think Coleman would have been a sound addition to our team; McCarthy, despite being a pretty good player, smacked more of a desperate wish to unearth the next Carrick.

Yeah, McCarthy was never anything special, Coleman top class though. I was praying United signed him a few years ago, he probably hasn't been the same since his leg break
 

KingMinger22

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His father's place of birth is completely irrelevant. Being born in England doesn't stop you from being Irish. I wasn't born in Ireland, I'm still Irish. When I have kids I'll still be Irish despite not being born there.

You also have no idea how he feels so why do you feel the need to act the nationality police?
My mum is Irish but I’m born and raised in England and can’t really understand how you can feel more Irish if you never even grew up there.

To say your kids at third generation are Irish is a little idealistic. That’s certainly not how the world will perceive them when they walk runs with their English accents.

Anyways... Rice clearly should be plying for England if he wants.
 

limerickcitykid

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My mum is Irish but I’m born and raised in England and can’t really understand how you can feel more Irish if you never even grew up there.

To say your kids at third generation are Irish is a little idealistic. That’s certainly not how the world will perceive them when they walk runs with their English accents.

Anyways... Rice clearly should be plying for England if he wants.
And I can't understand how you fail to understand different people have different thoughts and feelings and connections to national identities. And bizarre concept I know, but maybe people feel multi-national.

You don't feel Irish. That's cool for you. That has absolutely no bearing on how I or any other Irish person feels whether we were born in Ireland or not.

In what world is it idealistic? My parents are Irish, I'm Irish. My kids will be Irish. It doesn't just suddenly disappear. They'll be Irish citizens just like myself.

The accent argument again. Accents have no bearing on what nationality you are. Some of the thickest Irish accents I've ever heard are from kids in the USA who have never stepped foot in Ireland. The accent isn't what makes them Irish though.

Yes clearly Rice should play for whatever national team he wants. Whatever nationality you want to tell him he is irrelevant.
 

Zebs

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Haven’t watched him closely but he plays in what is a very big problem position for England. CDM has become the infamous left wing problem England had during Giggs prime.. would hate to lose someone like Rice if he does live up to the hype.
You'd have to have him in the first place to lose him. ;)
 

wythyred

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Think he's brilliant!

Every time I have seen West Ham this season he looks very good.

Unfortunately he has just signed a new contract so he won't be cheap however I think he would be worth every penny.
 

Green_Red

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He isn't better than the current CB potential we've had come through our own academy. Why bother.
 

wythyred

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He isn't better than the current CB potential we've had come through our own academy. Why bother.
Guessing you haven't watched him or have looked at his potential on Football Manager.:boring:

He hasn't played CB all season and his natural position is DM which he has been excellent at.
 

Zoo

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We should be looking at him. He is a natural in that role.
 

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He's very good at the defensive side of the game, but he has to improve on what he does with the ball when he has it. Too often he takes the safe option which is fine when he's at West Ham. When he inevitably makes the step up to a better team he needs to use the ball better and be more commanding with it. He's brilliant with his tackles and reading of the game though.
 

Eckers99

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Looks every inch the type of signing Fergie would go for. Would be a great long term replacement for Matic.