Discussion in 'Football Forum' started by andersj, Oct 4, 2018.
the exact definition of mediocre player.
Reminds me of the likes of Jack Rodwell. Hyped young player who looks good in a mid table team - and because he’s young it’s assumed he must have the potential to keep getting better and better.
Yeah, he played well apart from one lazy pass.
You could say the same for few hundred other players. So what?
Well that’s hyperbole in the extreme. There aren’t a few hundred other players that would instantly be our second best midfielder. There is a very limited pool. Which is why talent acquisition is so costly and difficult.
I don't think anyone here would say no to Kane, Sterling, and Sancho because they picked England.
Maybe try to look for other correlation?
Who is our second best midfielder? McTom?
I wouldn’t say the pool of midfielders better than him at the moment is limited.
Rice is shite though, not having him at all
None of those players really 'picked' England though, their national allegiance was never in question.
You'd be told to do one unless you come in once his legs are gone like you did with Matic.
Whenever I've seen WH play, he looks OK but I've been far more impressed with Diop
One of those players that looks better live when you can see his defensive contribution more. Saying that, he's still too limited for a top level club. Didn't he grow up as a CB, if so, you can tell. Looks lost going forward and passing very limited.
I agree. Diop and Rice might make a good CB pairing.
Yes McTominay. And of course the pool is limited. To buy a better player is likely to cost 50-70m, unless you unearth a gem. The market dynamics are exactly the way they are because the talent pool at the top end is extremely limited.
The biggest gain is to be made in coaching, not talent acquisition. Klopp winning the CL with Henderson, Fabinho and Winaljdum is testament to that.
Used as a defensive midfielder whose only job is to break down the opponents attack - he will be great.
Used as a midfielder expected to support the attack - he will not be great.
Would prefer a more capable ball user if we are to sign a DM.
I saw some link to a possible 'united £90m Declan Rice bid...' somewhere recently.
Are we serious? For what?
He is no more than a McTominay.
Thank you. Waste of money. McT is similar. The Caf is so toxic.
Even that is overegging it. He sacrifices his position a lot to try and win the ball. He is brave but top level players will expose his willingness to commit himself, then exploit the gaps he leaves when he puts his body on the line.
The Kosovan midfield did not have too much difficulty advancing into our final third last night. Okay, the low block worked fairly well at that point and gave us a platform to counter. However, we still conceded three goals last night.
If we gave that much territorial advantage to France or Germany or Spain would we have got away with it...?
Maybe Rice will prove me wrong but I do not see him becoming an elite level defensive midfielder.
Southgate's not gonna bench him anytime soon after begging him to quit a team where he would have been the first name on the teamsheet.
He'll be a useful hard working ball winner in tight games against elite opposition who will dominate possession.
Harry Winks and Longstaff might be ahead of him in the England team a year from now.
Exactly. Pretty competent as a pure destroyer, though not special. I'd like to think we need more than that. I wonder if we're truly scouting Florentino Luis? And I'm still not sure why Sander Berge doesn't get a look in. Rice would cost silly money for too limited a skill set.
Maybe, but you have to remember he's only 20, playing central midfield in international football. He's very inexperienced, he plays for West Ham. There is a lot of room for improvement as there would be for any 20 year old, plus when he moves to a bigger team, which he will, he will be playing with better players week in and week out, which will also help his game. He's far from the finished article but what 20 yr olds are. I think people are looking too closely at this game. England were in absolute cruise control and knew it and took their eye of the ball. The team collectively didn't keep their concentration, it happens, it's not right, but you really felt at any point if England upped the gears they could score at any time.
Hardly a reason to play him . If anything Southgate can do what he wants with him now
Mctominay is better playing box to box, as he has a good engine and is pretty decent on the ball. Rice is purely a DM.
90m is a laugh.
You heard an ex pro Noel Whelan give his opinion on Rice and he said possibly 90 million. If Noel Whelan is setting the prices for players these days then we are in trouble.He's a commentator on bbc radio leeds. He casually said ""We have just seen Harry Maguire go for £80million and I wouldn’t be surprised if Rice goes for more than that, above £90m, even." Small time pundit trying to make a name for himself.
Aww.. now i get it. Worth about half that quoted 90m, but i’m sure glad if we get him.
The English market is just fecked, 90m for Rice? You could likely get a young DM similar ability or better for a fraction of that.
Not sure what you're on about but you do realise that the story came from Noel Whelan plucking a figure out of his arse and a gutter rag fabricating a story out of it?
AWB was sold 50m plus adds on this season. I’m pretty sure Rice would cost more.
There's nothing to suggest that we are even interested though. He'd be worth no more than AWB at this point.
We are never paying 90m for a Dm who can't play it out. Don't worry about that.
This thread is just full of the same posters laughing at Brexit FC when we signed AWB and James. Now they can laugh at a story that won't happen so it's not thrown back at them when they appear to come good.
Doesn't that just make him... a defender? I don't know any top team who's DM couldn't support the attack, even if their main attribute was breaking up the play. Makelele and Kante can both carry the ball far better than Rice.
He reminds me of Nicky Butt. He's about the same level. Can more than do a job if England need him, and in certain games will be very useful, but in the long run there will be others ahead of him, the same way Keane and Carrick were a level above Butt.
english... young... so no doubt we'll be willing to pay close to £100m for him. Would be a decentish buy at between half and quarter that. No idea what Ole thinks is the point
Not hyperbole. The top 5 leagues in Europe alone have 97 teams. Squads have about 6 midfielders per side. Nearly 600 players. According to WhoScored Rice is 3th best midfielder at WHU with Lanzini and Noble ahead of him. I'm certain I can find 200 other midfielders in the world better than Rice.
Agree with your general point but there's no way that he's worse than Noble.
Whoscored ratings heavily favour attacking qualities so a guy with Rice’s attributes generally don’t score highly.
For example, Carrick scored only a little higher than Rice in most seasons. You get a higher rating if you win so Carrick would have been boosted by playing for United as well.
Every decent team needs its creativity to come from somewhere. But there's no set template to say it has to be the forwards, or the wingers or the #10, etc.
Our main attacking options (Martial, Rashford, James, Lingard) lack creativity. As do the fullbacks (AWB and Shaw).
Therefore, the creativity needs to come from midfield.
Pogba gives us some of that, but not enough on his own.
The bigger issue is that Pogba is easily dispossessed and lacks the passing accuracy of players like KdB or Ozil. That hurts our defence quite significantly because it makes it much too easy to bypass the midfield in a single move. Meanwhile, McTominay is good as a box-to-box, but he can't hold the midfield nor create well enough to compensate.
So the obvious solution to our unique set of problems is to play two creative midfielders (Pogba + A.N. Other) ahead of a pure holder (not McTominay) who has decent positioning.
Rice is as good a holding destroyer as you'll find anywhere. His passing may not be creative, but that's not why he'd be bought. He'd be there solely to keep the ball ticking over and to protect his centrebacks.
Also, his long passing seems to be quite underrated on here. I think a lot of posters conflate creativity and passing range, but they're really not the same thing. He can switch the play fairly consistently, which would be another quality to take the burden off Pogba.
Played 3 games for Ireland and he was easily the best player on the pitch in all 3 games, albeit they were only friendlies.
He still stood out. He has a lot of potential.
I'd have him over McTominay or Matic any day of the week.
Go on then.
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