Declan Rice

Dan_F

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A diamond is technically can be a flat three midfield. Diamond doesn’t always be 442.
If you say so. The midfield you posted is nothing like France played though. Unless you’re playing Bruno upfront.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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If you say so. The midfield you posted is nothing like France played though. Unless you’re playing Bruno upfront.
Formation isn’t static. It can change during the attacking transition and defending transition. What I posted is pretty much reflecting to the fact that Griezmann wasn’t DM/CM. Kante was a DM while both Pogba and Rabiot were CM.
 

Dan_F

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Formation isn’t static. It can change during the attacking transition and defending transition. What I posted is pretty much reflecting to the fact that Griezmann wasn’t DM/CM. Kante was a DM while both Pogba and Rabiot were CM.
I know it isn’t static, except Kante was further forward than Pogba and Rabiot when set defensively. In attacking transitions one stayed back, which was varied. I’m not saying the diamond with Rice won’t work, but it’s not relevant to what France played in defence or attack.

You can’t play France’s system with Bruno/Pogba - unless you’re asking Bruno to try and do Rabiot’s job, or put him on the right to drift around like Griezman.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I know it isn’t static, except Kante was further forward than Pogba and Rabiot when set defensively. In attacking transitions one stayed back, which was varied. I’m not saying the diamond with Rice won’t work, but it’s not relevant to what France played in defence or attack.

You can’t play France’s system with Bruno/Pogba - unless you’re asking Bruno to try and do Rabiot’s job, or put him on the right to drift around like Griezman.
Kante wasn’t further forward than Pogba and Rabiot most of the time when set defensively.
 

Dan_F

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Kante wasn’t further forward than Pogba and Rabiot most of the time when set defensively.
He was often. They fell back as a really flat, compact three. Once they were set, Kante would often press higher, with Rabiot and Pogba narrowing their width behind. This meant Pogba wasn’t really caught out higher up the pitch pressing, like he is for United in a two. Kante has the ability to press and get back far quicker. This happened a lot, but if you didn’t spot it, fair enough.

Kante playing as a purely defensive, sitting, midfielder is a waste, and I seem to remember him performing poorly for Chelsea in this role. Hence he’s now performing well next to Jorginho.

Either way, I don’t really think France’s system is what we want to be aiming for. It’s too functional/one dimensional for club football.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He was often. They fell back as a really flat, compact three. Once they were set, Kante would often press higher, with Rabiot and Pogba narrowing their width behind. This meant Pogba wasn’t really caught out higher up the pitch pressing, like he is for United in a two. Kante has the ability to press and get back far quicker. This happened a lot, but if you didn’t spot it, fair enough.

Kante playing as a purely defensive, sitting, midfielder is a waste, and I seem to remember him performing poorly for Chelsea in this role. Hence he’s now performing well next to Jorginho.

Either way, I don’t really think France’s system is what we want to be aiming for. It’s too functional/one dimensional for club football.
He wasn’t often mate. That’s just high press. Kante also defending a lot in deep area and his starting position during build up play was in that deep area and I already told you that team can switch their structure during attacking and defensive transition.

He was pretty much their DM. Being a DM doesn’t mean you need to hold or sit still and doesn’t mean you can’t roam. I’m not sure how you can conclude that my post indicate one of our player will just sit.

I’m not sure why are you also comparing Pogba in France with Pogba at United in two, not like it’s relevant to my post.
 

yamo123x

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i can just see Murtough and Ed with their list and names steadily being crossed off...we are very naive in the market...all transfers are long drawn out sagas and we have our pants pulled down more often than not IMHO.

Surely if we want Rice we offer Lingard plus cash....
 

Sandikan

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i can just see Murtough and Ed with their list and names steadily being crossed off...we are very naive in the market...all transfers are long drawn out sagas and we have our pants pulled down more often than not IMHO.

Surely if we want Rice we offer Lingard plus cash....
Makes sense.
But knowing us it'd be 60m plus Lingard.

And ridiculously, you just know some on here would go for it, despite Lingard arguably being the better player!
 

Dan_F

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He wasn’t often mate. That’s just high press. Kante also defending a lot in deep area and his starting position during build up play was in that deep area and I already told you that team can switch their structure during attacking and defensive transition.

He was pretty much their DM. Being a DM doesn’t mean you need to hold or sit still and doesn’t mean you can’t roam. I’m not sure how you can conclude that my post indicate one of our player will just sit.

I’m not sure why are you also comparing Pogba in France with Pogba at United in two, not like it’s relevant to my post.
A high press in France’s own half? Because Kante pressed highest plenty in that situation. I concluded that a player is sitting in your post because that’s what Rice does, he’s never played any other way.

The whole point of my first post was highlighting that France didn’t play a diamond, or really anything resembling the midfield diamond you suggested for United. If you think that will work for United that’s fine, but I’m still not seeing the relevance to France’s midfield.

Either way, I’m out as it’s derailing the thread.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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A high press in France’s own half? Because Kante pressed highest plenty in that situation. I concluded that a player is sitting in your post because that’s what Rice does, he’s never played any other way.

The whole point of my first post was highlighting that France didn’t play a diamond, or really anything resembling the midfield diamond you suggested for United. If you think that will work for United that’s fine, but I’m still not seeing the relevance to France’s midfield.

Either way, I’m out as it’s derailing the thread.
Where did I say high press in France’s own half?

The fact Rice plays in double pivot not in sitting midfielder of 433 shows he can adapt in a non-holding mid role.

Well, what you believe on what I suggested is different what I actually posted. You believe I posted something like a holding midfielder who sits without any changes during transition but in reality I told you it is not holding midfielder who sits while in attacking or build up transition, Kante was the one who sits deep while in defensivetransition it is more 3 man midfield which I explained it to you that a diamond can also be considered as 3 flat midfield.
 

OrcaFat

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Makes sense.
But knowing us it'd be 60m plus Lingard.

And ridiculously, you just know some on here would go for it, despite Lingard arguably being the better player!
I’m not sure who’s arguing that but they need to have a long sit down.
 

reddevilz007

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OGS will stick to his double pivot.
Sell Pogba and Donny, get Locatelli and Kalvin Philipps.
Midfield problem solved for the next 5 years at least, and Carrick will love to coach these two
 

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OGS will stick to his double pivot.
Sell Pogba and Donny, get Locatelli and Kalvin Philipps.
Midfield problem solved for the next 5 years at least, and Carrick will love to coach these two
If that happens I'll eat my own feet, and one hand.
 

Abraxas

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It will be interesting to see how he does versus Scotland. I'm hoping Scotland will be well up for this game and not just sitting deep. I'd like to see how he does under pressure and what his passing is like, as that is one area where we are very inconsistent in our play, which I think is one of the reasons we're an average first half side.
 

lenny_1248

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Why do people even discuss his possible arrival?
There is absolutely zero chance he comes. Great player, but no way in hell the club will have the money.
We should have bought Hojbjerg when there was a chance. Cheap, solid DM.
 

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Scott Parker vs Declan Rice.

Who was better player and how much would Scotty P be worth today?
Parker was superb at Charlton, was a poor decision in hindsight to go Chelsea, overall a better player than Rice for a midfielder
 

Abraxas

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Scott Parker vs Declan Rice.

Who was better player and how much would Scotty P be worth today?
They're quite different, aren't they? I seem to remember Scott Parker being more of a box to box player. Whereas Rice's skills do seem more skewed towards defensive solidity.

I take the point, though. The prices are insane for players, especially PL players. Anybody that has potential to play for a top club is exorbitantly priced.
 

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People need to get over Bellingham choosing the right decision, if you think for a second we'd have given him the game time Dortmund have you're blinkered. We pulled out all the stops, put in a big effort, but where it counted wages and actually playing football, we couldn't compete.
It wasn’t just that though, it was also the weight of expectation signing for Utd would bring. His dad has gone on record as stating that. It wouldn’t have mattered if it was us, Barca, RM or BM. He was never signing for a big club at his age
 

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Scott Parker vs Declan Rice.

Who was better player and how much would Scotty P be worth today?
Obviously seen a lot more of Parker as his playing days are over, but right now, I'd say he was the better player. Rice might go on to be a better player.
 

Floyd

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Rice is much more disciplined than Parker who was all over the place all the time.
 

Bebestation

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if we play 4231 then Rice isn’t the one for us.

433 though - I would love him here.

I’m one of the few that doesn’t think Bruno at AM vs an attacking freedom CM makes much difference.
 

AltiUn

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Scott Parker was your bog-standard top 10 midfielder, not too dissimilar to McTominay and Fred.
Why do people even discuss his possible arrival?
There is absolutely zero chance he comes. Great player, but no way in hell the club will have the money.
We should have bought Hojbjerg when there was a chance. Cheap, solid DM.
He's pretty average too, started well but was one of their worst players by March.
 

Stacks

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Parker was superb at Charlton, was a poor decision in hindsight to go Chelsea, overall a better player than Rice for a midfielder
Won Hammer of the year 3 years straight, won FWA player of the year and England International player of the year at the Hammers. PFA Team of the year at Spurs
Obviously seen a lot more of Parker as his playing days are over, but right now, I'd say he was the better player. Rice might go on to be a better player.
Its a bit unfair because Declan still developing and we have seen the entirety of Scotty P
Scott Parker was your bog-standard top 10 midfielder, not too dissimilar to McTominay and Fred.

He's pretty average too, started well but was one of their worst players by March.
When McTom or Fred makes PFA Team of the year, wins best England International player in a season, FWA player of the season, PFA Young player of the year we can chat
 

AltiUn

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Won Hammer of the year 3 years straight, won FWA player of the year and England International player of the year at the Hammers. PFA Team of the year at Spurs

Its a bit unfair because Declan still developing and we have seen the entirety of Scotty P

When McTom or Fred makes PFA Team of the year, wins best England International player in a season, FWA player of the season, PFA Young player of the year we can chat
Solid top 10 midfielder, nothing more, nothing less. He went on to make a further 8 appearances for the England team after his award which is about right for the level he was at.
 
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Great opportunity for him tonight to show us doubters what he can do on the ball when playing on a much better side than the oppo.
Extremely interested to see.

First two touches haven’t faired well.
 
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Zoo

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I won’t judge him in a Gareth Southgate team. Nobody will pay £90m for him though that is just media bluster.
 

Idxomer

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I was watching him the other day and there was a simple pass between the lines to Lingard and he didn't even try to play it.

That really put me off him again. It's the kind of pass Carrick used to make with his eyes closed, this is the standard we should be aiming for.
Same happened again today with an easier pass to Foden, this guy will never be a midfielder for a top club.
 

Stacks

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Solid top 10 midfielder, nothing more, nothing less. He went on to make a further 8 appearances for the England team after his award which is about right for the level he was at.
He was the best player at top 10 teams usually so it depends what you mean by solid. Solid to me just means a player who is reliable at top 10 level but doesn't excel
 

Ayoba

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I said it before and I'll say it again, we don't need to spunk any money on rice who is no better than Mctominay