Sorry, probably me being dense, but what's your point? My original point was West ham rightly value him high as they don't want to lose him, so what we'd need to pay for him would feck over any pursuit of other players in the same window.
Declan Rice
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Brighton put a £50m price tag on him last summer and next summer he's entering the final year of his contract. You do the math, but if it's less than £50m then it'll be less than half what West Ham are quoting for Rice.
I like Brozovic and I don't see the age as a problem unless we're seeing a decline in agility and pace. We signed Cavani at 34 and Ronaldo at 36. We have seen that experienced players can work, certainly for a while. He's free on Bosman from January too. If we plan to wait out West Ham for 2-3 years until Rice's contract situation forces them to accept a lower price, then he's a very good option imo.
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It's more mental skill set. He is a leader in his own right, doesn't shy away from possession and doesn't need instructions on what is required from him as part of his game.
Bissouma pretty much a very similar player but his leadership skills is not on pair with Rice and it matters when you are coming to this club and required to make a position your own and impact games. Rice fits in straight away. It's a lame argument I'm presenting but it's proven. You can see players like Sancho having slow starts and it's down to style of play and the task required for them. There's not much thought at the minute of the type of player we are brining in and how they impact our style, we just look at the quality aspect. Rice fits our current style, can as Bissouma work for cheaper yes. But is he going to come into the team and own that position, I don't think so. Ndidi would, but his passing ability isn't good enough for what we are lacking at the minute.
But he is also three years older. Meaning, all else equal, you are likely to get three more years from Rice. In other words, if their value is zero at the age of 33 Bissoumas cost at £50 mill is £6,25 mill per season. If Rice cost £80 mill, his cost per season will be £7,27 mill. A difference of 15-20 percent.
I think Rice is worth that premium. First, because I think Rice is better as of today. Second, because players often develop quite a bit from 22/23 to 25/26. Bissouma himself is a good example of that. And I also think Rice has the potential to become alot better than he is today.
Yeah no, that's not how it works at all. You can only break down their value per year for the duration of their contract, not some arbitrary date in future which would depend on individual longevity and would require contract extensions that are out of your control.
Your opinion of course and you're fully entitled to it, but I don't think he is better today and for sure the premium is nowhere near as small as you claim. He has more time to improve of course, I agree there.
I never said that I was talking about the financial statement, but I understand that the comment about cost was misleading so that was my fault.
But I would argue that buying a player at a younger age is more attractive not only because he is expected to develop more, but also because you expect to get more years out of him. And that holds a value. Regardless of the financial statement.
Furthermore, it is likely to be reflected in the financial statement after a few years when you extend the contract. If we signed Bissouma we would probably never extend his contract with more than a year. If we signed Rice we probably would, and hence spread out his cost.
Seems like we've briefed the press that we won't be going for Rice as he's too expensive.
Either he's made it clear he wants Chelsea, or we've come to our senses.
Either he's made it clear he wants Chelsea, or we've come to our senses.
There's no guarantee to that. We brought Pogba in the summer of 2016 as a 23yo, same age Rice will be next summer. Yet next summer at the age of 29, his theoretical peak, Pogba is very likely to walk away for free. Even if he doesn't he is very likely to command a large sign-on fee, perhaps comparable to signing a player.
This is becoming more and more prevalent (players running down contracts) and the expectation that buying young gives you more years or that you can amortise the initial transfer cost over a potentially longer career, doesn't really hold ground.
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I'd rather go and pay 100M for Frenkie de Jong rather than 100M for Rice.
I dont think he s the type of player we need.
We need more a player able to dictate the tempo of the game with very good technique and good brain. Pogba should have been this one but he's not.
I dont think he s the type of player we need.
We need more a player able to dictate the tempo of the game with very good technique and good brain. Pogba should have been this one but he's not.
If we're gonna look at Bosmans aren't we best off going for Kamara/Kessie? Getting an old DM in Matic over Fabinho at the time is what has us in this difficult compromising position looking for a DM. For every Cavani(who's injury prone and not played much) and Ronaldo there's a Matic/Alexis and we'd have much better odds of having a sustainable title challenge with either a young upcoming DM or a DM entering his prime than yet another 30+ yr old when we're already stockpiling ourselves with those.
We can't always wait on a player forever if we can't get Rice this year we should move on from him completely and get a permanent alternative instead of a stop gap
Kessie is kinda different, he's more all-rounder and box-to-box. Bennacer is more of a DM for Milan. But yeah in theory you can buy Brozovic and Kessie for free next summer.
For every Alexis there's also a Schneiderlin, a Dan James, a Van De Beek etc. Buying young isn't the guarantee you seem to think it is, in terms of them becoming your long term solution. Matic who you mention as a bad example, has proved more useful than some of the young CMs we bought in recent years.
We should only go for Brozovic if the management feels he is good enough, of course. Not just because he is free.
The Brighton fan here doesn't think he is a shielding type and neither do I.
He chases the ball and has a both attacking and defensive game that makes him go all all over the pitch.
I see him more as a replacement for Fred (maybe even to Pogba) and to then play him next to Mctominay?
I don't really see how Bissouma sits and shields compared to Ndidi or Rice.
Just like Matic eh? I'd rather we go for someone like Bissouma, Palninha or Rice.
I also personally think this ESPN videos about Rice's summer transfer 'no no' actually being reported because we want some sort of a CDM more this January.
We can't go until summer without a CDM. We won't win the PL without a CDM included in January & I'm sure Ole knows this so we need to get a CDM in January. Rice isn't coming this January and even if he did he would be even more potentially expensive, so it's time to look at someone else for now.
I've heard Kessie has mentioned as he is on a free this summer - so we could get him cheap in Jan.
We can't go until summer without a CDM. We won't win the PL without a CDM included in January & I'm sure Ole knows this so we need to get a CDM in January. Rice isn't coming this January and even if he did he would be even more potentially expensive, so it's time to look at someone else for now.
I've heard Kessie has mentioned as he is on a free this summer - so we could get him cheap in Jan.
You are putting too much stock in espn they are useless , unless this story is backed by somebody credible I believe Rice is the one we would target in summer for certain .
I want Rice and I think we could go for him in the summer too.
However what I'm saying is that -
Can we go through this January transfer window without a CDM when it's our most obvious weakness?
I don't think so. I can see us going for a different type of CDM to Rice in January (maybe a DLP) or a bit more of an improvement but defensive alternatives to Fred (energetic pressing CDM)
He's not a CDM though, he's basically Mctominay.
That is why I said likely. A Pogba-case is rare, and does not happen often at Man Utd. For a british player, hardly ever (I cant remember it at Man Utd anyway). And the only cases in England I can remember for the past thirty years at «top clubs» is Campbell and Cole.
I got your point I think however, my point was that with or without us overpaying for Rice, we are a well known overpayer and potential morons in transfer dealings, look at us buying Fred.
Matic was already declining which is why he was sold by Chelsea. There's a long thread about that, somehere.
Modric is playing at 36 meanwhile. Unless you are seeing signs of physical decline in Brozovic, then Matic is not an example of relevance. Rooney was done at 30 and Ibra is still playing at 39. Every player is different.
appears that the recruitment of Rice is starting to take on a Pogba level of creating disagreement amongst the United supporters
does Rice take United to the next level??
does Rice take United to the next level??
Ah gotcha. I think we've shook that off a bit, but fair point.
I'll take Declan now. He is no worse than the DMC at Chelsea and City and they seem to be some of the stronger teams in Europe.
what? Rice isn't even in the same sentence with Kante and Jorginho but Kovicic is playing better than both right now.
I think we should really be sure he'd be a world beater if we're serious about getting him because West Ham will want serious money for him. If he's going to just be an average good player, then I reckon the club could actually try to get cheaper alternative.
We spent almost 50m for Fred and all we got was a modern slightly better version of Alan Smith.
We spent almost 50m for Fred and all we got was a modern slightly better version of Alan Smith.
Well they are not similar players. Bissouma is a b2b not a DM. If we are looking for a sitter in midfield it’s rice. Bissouma is another Fred or McTominay type (type of player).
it depends on what ole is looking for
Bissouma is a b2b
Rice is a pure DM
Rice could so b2b
I’m not sure bissouma could do DM. He chases all over the pitch, which leaves the middle unattended if playing 2 b2b.
I think ole is looking for a sitter which would rule bissouma out for me
Agree with that too. Which is also why he wouldn’t fit this team.
Ole did mention he likes his midfielders to be able to do everything though. He might not be looking for a pure DM.
As I said I believe rice can do more, I am not sure that bissouma could do DM
Yep. whenever Ole has always said he wants a midfielder that can do it all. Whether Bissouma is that guy - perhaps. Does Rice have the attacking side to his game? i'm not sure.
I don't think it's a coincidence the leaks recently say they're not sure Rice is worth the money West Ham want. He'd be a good buy for around 40m, but nothing close to 100m.
I think he said that just because thats what we’ve got right now and he doesn’t like to talk his players down or suggest they’re not good enough. I take everything he says with a pinch of salt about ins and outs.
In what universe he is as good as Jorginho?
different skillsets. He is better at some things
He is also better than Messi in some things, but nowhere as a good player.
Douglas Luiz should be looked at as well. He is getting better and better. It won’t be cheap tough.
In that universe where they played in that final last summer and Rice looked way better than Jorginho
I don't really agree with you. Bissouma only recently started playing more B2B, because he can.
If anything, last year people were saying he wasn't the right player for us because we don't need a pure sitting CDM.
Well our resident Brighton fan agrees with me @The Boy
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