Yeah players like Rice at the age of 23 are sold for peanuts in France and Germany. Heard there's a great market in Ukraine also, 50m pounds for a Fred, maybe we should try that again?
Declan Rice
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Well SAF worked like that for most of the time. He would buy players on relatively reasonable prices and then he would develop them into WC himself. I believe that SAF had only bought one big name signing in CM for crazy money and it turned out to be a flop (JSV).
I think that Haidara/Kamara-Tielemans-Bruno would give us great balance in midfield at a fragment of the price that the likes of Rice or Bellingham would do. The money could then be spent to slowly repair the overrated/expensive mess Ole left behind. This move would save us having yet another player carrying the huge burden of carrying a price tag which is far too big for his worth. I believe that have hurt Sancho, Maguire, Pogba and AWB big time
Finally I can't recall making so many excuses for Rio and Stam as we do for Maguire. Maybe it was down of them being top players.
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Italy's midfield is great, we dominated like that in large part due to Southgate's tactical decisions and Rice was shutting them down and burning them in transition through most of the first half. I genuinely celebrated when Southgate subbed him off, he was a problem for us
He was the best of a poor side who was filled with bottlers. He's nowhere near to 100m. This is not a great Italian side either. We've seen much better sides then this
Scholes, Giggs, Butt, Nevilles, Beckham, Wes brown, Evans, Cleverely all stayed near majority near from the start right to the end retirement days of SAF.
Then he also bought Carrick, Rio Ferdinand, Rooney, Hargreaves, Young, Zaha, Keane, Sheringham, Andy Cole, Alan Smith, Smalling, Jones, pallister, Hughes, Ince, Dublin, Bruce, Irwin and so many more that I can't be bothered.
I'm not sure why you think SAF succeeded more from buying players like Haidara and Kamara when that reminds me of the djemba djemba and Kleberson transfers.
I'm not saying we should have a full 11 players of English players at an English club - but I do think it's an underrated aspect of some clubs to have some homegrown players.
Even when people are talking about the slight improvement of Arsenal this year - whilst I don't rate Arteta, I don't think it's a coincidence that Arsenal bought Ramsdale, White, Using players like Tierney, Saka, Smith Rowe all in the first team squad regularly and they have improved a bit compared to the last couple of years.
Yup. Unless those players only have a year left on their contract, we're not getting anyone of any real quality for less than £40m. A player with the talent needed to play in midfield at a very high level is going to cost a lot. I don't think we can afford to take punts on cheap players. We need players that can come in and instantly provide quality to the first XI.
Agreed. England parked the bus after scoring a really early goal. I think they potentially could have taken the game more to Italy, but Southgate decided against it. Italy also had Jorginho and Verratti playing. They will dominate almost any midfield they play against. Buying ready-made players as good as that is next to impossible. They're too expensive and already play for destination clubs. We have to go for the tier below that and hope they develop into that higher tier.
I remember England having some sort of record during the tournament where they went alot of games without conceding a shot on goal or something similair. I forgotten what exactly it was - but I was watching England as my team and put that alot down to Rice. He was playing a very simplistic ultra defensive version of himself aswell. I didn't rate him at all until the Euros and it was after that he raised my interest to follow him at West Ham.
Ever since I watched him for West Ham then I realise he can play as defensive as he did for England/Southgate as well as a bit more in the game as he plays at West Ham.
His defensive game where he stops the attack by just being there is beautiful to watch for me. He hardly has to make a tackle because the opposition attack has stalled and as such they have to rotate possesion.
Yeah, England didn't concede until the SF against Denmark. Even that goal was a direct freekick. No open play goals conceded until the final. The whole of England's defence and midfield are to thank for that. They were all playing very well.
Southgate's use of Rice is extremely conservative. He asks him to sit in front of the defence and only play very short passes. He made the occasional surge forward during the Euros, but it wasn't often. He's shown a much more expansive game at West Ham. Phillips was the one tasked with getting forward and making the riskier passes for England.
Thought he was mediocre at the Euros, but that may just have been the ultra cautious role he'd been asked to play in an ultra cautious side. Looks elite, or close to it, this season with West Ham. He also seems to have massively improved on the ball, getting out of tight spaces with relative ease. Not sure if that's worth a 100 mil, but he's a legitimately good midfielder who is extremely efficient at what he does, and sometimes efficiency, as unsexy as it might be, is what you need most in the middle of the park for a team to function properly. Certainly something United need desperately. But yeah, 100m... good luck.
He impresses me whenever I watch him. Definitely improved all round game, can run the ball out from the back, strong on the ball, good range of passing. Would need a creative player with him, we have Bruno for that. Would be a great addition. But again for £100m plus wages, is there another player in the world who can do a similar job at half the cost? We seem unable to find these players.
I was referring to players bought without breaking the bank and then turned into top talent such as Ole, Schmeichel, Cantona, Johnsen, Kanchelskis, Van Del Gouw, Carrick, Park, Evra, Vidic and of course the best player SAF had ever had talent wise ie Cristiano Ronaldo. Sure we had our Klebersons and Djemba Djembas as well whom we made a eye watering loss of, erm, 4m and 2m respectively. However I suspect that we could have tanked that loss quite easily.
Under Ole we've been told that a core of British players would somehow strengthen the United DNA (whatever it means, it sounds like something said in some Radical Right fandom movie) and they would work hard because they know what being at United is all about. After 415m spent how did that work out exactly? Because what I am seeing is the usual lazy team filled with overrated bottlers who keep making excuses for them being shit. Ironically with all his British core etc it was a Portuguese who bailed him out throughout his tenure and once his form dipped the tab was picked by a Spanish. Having said that I think that what matters is the players attitude rather then their nationality. A non brit like Keane, Gattuso and Zanetti have more attitude and professionalism in their pinky toe then probably all our players combined.
So in my opinion we should always aim for the bargain whether its an import (local or foreign) or someone from the youth academy. Its good for our finances, it keeps the expectations on the players on a realistic mode, it usually attracts players who are on their first-second contract which means that they would be hungry for success, it allows the manager more leeway to bench them if he wants to and it wouldn't cost us a bomb if we have to show them the door. Ah I almost forgot, if a true talent comes on the market on crazy money (I am referring to talent like Rooney or Rio for example) then we would be able to afford him.
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Stop playing smart. English players playing for English clubs are demonstrably and by every metric much more expensive than overseas talent. Maguire ring any bells? Just becuase Fred didn't pan out doesn't mean other purchases won't
If we pay more than 80 million for Rice, we need to have our heads examined.
100m is a crazy price
but would I pay up to 75m? Yes.
people are happy to drop 33m on Haidara, RB player, with limited experience, who can run around a lot.
i know who I’d rather have. But I wouldn’t stop there, I’d pair him with neves or someonE of similar ilk
but would I pay up to 75m? Yes.
people are happy to drop 33m on Haidara, RB player, with limited experience, who can run around a lot.
i know who I’d rather have. But I wouldn’t stop there, I’d pair him with neves or someonE of similar ilk
A midfield 3 of McGinn, Rice and Bruno would be very good tbh.
It's not a great italian side because we lack world class forwards. The rest of the team is as good as we've ever had
Don't see any control there. We need at least one midfielder capable of controlling a game and who can bring a sense of composure to the team.
It's quite funny. On one side the caf only wants big name signings, EPL proven players who are constantly hyped.
On the other hand you guys complain that the board overpays and just randomly buys expensive players who don't really for into the team or your playing style.
Then you envy other teams who bought young, relatively unknown players and develop them into top players.
Look at Bayern first 11, Müller, Gnabry, Kimmich, Goretzka, Davies, Coman, Musiala were all rather unproven players that Bayern developed into top players. If United would have bought any of them at the time Bayern had bought these players, the vast majority here would have been totally underwhelmed and questioned the boards decision.
I remember well when Bayern got Gnabry and Coman in line to replace Robbery many here were saying it's a huge downgrade and will bring the end of Bayern's dominance.
Now Rangnick, who had a proven track record in building successful teams, suggests to buy some young, rather unknown players and immediately many here come out saying they are not good enough to wear the United shirt.
You should have learned your lessons from paying record transfer fees for Pogba, Maguire or Sancho.
On the other hand you guys complain that the board overpays and just randomly buys expensive players who don't really for into the team or your playing style.
Then you envy other teams who bought young, relatively unknown players and develop them into top players.
Look at Bayern first 11, Müller, Gnabry, Kimmich, Goretzka, Davies, Coman, Musiala were all rather unproven players that Bayern developed into top players. If United would have bought any of them at the time Bayern had bought these players, the vast majority here would have been totally underwhelmed and questioned the boards decision.
I remember well when Bayern got Gnabry and Coman in line to replace Robbery many here were saying it's a huge downgrade and will bring the end of Bayern's dominance.
Now Rangnick, who had a proven track record in building successful teams, suggests to buy some young, rather unknown players and immediately many here come out saying they are not good enough to wear the United shirt.
You should have learned your lessons from paying record transfer fees for Pogba, Maguire or Sancho.
Really? Would you swap the Italy 90 CM, the USA 94 CM or the WC winner CM with this one?
It would probably cost us 130m-140m to assemble that and in 4-5 years time we're back from scratch as Bruno and McGinn will need to be replaced
I'm not advocating signing Rice, I think he'd be too expensive for what he is. All I'm saying is he's a good player with the right sort of character for what we need and he wouldn't be worse than our recent signings.
McGinn is basically just Fred with Anderson's arse and an ok shot. Would be a poor signing.
he's class and is still improving, think United missed a trick in not just going all out on him in the summer, think they could have got him got £70m + Lingard, now he's going to cost north of £100m, especially if they finish top 4.
McGinn is better then Fred. He's also a decent leader. However he's 27 which is a problem for a midfielder who rely heavily on his energy and his workrate. He also happens to play for a club who doesn't need our money. So they'll be asking for a silly fee for him.
If our DOF/Technical director/army of scouts can only come out with names such as Sancho, Maguire, Varane, McGinn, Rice and Ronaldo then we might as well dismantle the entire structure up and hire a British teenager year from Manchester to handle all our transfers.
Definitely for the 90 and 94 sides. The 06 side was great because of Pirlo, but on the whole? Yeah, this side plays better. Give us Totti, Vieri and Zambrotta and this would be the best side we've had since 1982. As i said, this side is flawed due to lack of quality forwards, but otherwise it's great. Going 37 games without losing and winning the euros in the process is proof of that.
And england didn't really make us look all that good. We dominated but we didn't create much did we. They mostly shut us down. They just created even less. It was like watching those older 90s and early 00s italy sides through the mirror
That's what I said. But it's marginal and would be nowhere near worth the fee.
Another over rated English footballer.Don't waste your money.
Gattuso would walk right into this national side and our team.Definitely for the 90 and 94 sides. The 06 side was great because of Pirlo, but on the whole? Yeah, this side plays better. Give us Totti, Vieri and Zambrotta and this would be the best side we've had since 1982. As i said, this side is flawed due to lack of quality forwards, but otherwise it's great. Going 37 games without losing and winning the euros in the process is proof of that.
And england didn't really make us look all that good. We dominated but we didn't create much did we. They mostly shut us down. They just created even less. It was like watching those older 90s and early 00s italy sides through the mirror
No way. Maybe for United, but for Italy? Just no.
I beg to differ on that. Its amazing how underrated Rino is.
Great player for his era. Obsolete in the current one
True. The combination of him and Pirlo was exceptional. Even better with Seedorf as well for Milan.
Nah. Gattuso was one of the most effective B2B players of his generation. His workrate and marking ability were unparalleled and his warrior character infective. Talent wise he lagged behind the likes of Keane, Rijkaard and co. Having said that, he had this very rare humility/confidence of knowing/embracing his limits, give his very best and do what is good for his club. That was done on and off the pitch as well. For example he renounced his salary at Milan (nearly 11m euros) so they could pay the staff. I think he did the same with Napoli.
So in some ways yes, Gattuso is obsolete in the current football world were a centre back whose 1/10 the level of Maldini is worth 80m and were players care more about their hair, their brand and humping pillows. But let me add that this is a shame.
This might be the most ridiculous take I've ever heard. Did you ever watch him in his prime?
A Rino, Pirlo, Seeforf midfield with them in their late 20s would smoke 99.9% of the midfields out there to day.
I don't know what you guys are talking about.
I don't know what you guys are talking about.
This is just a weird self-fellating Bayern post.
The problem isn't paying record transfer fees. Players like Pogba and Sancho are inherently very good players. The issue is that there's no cohesive system in place, nor is there any order in who we buy. The price of the player is immaterial in those situations. They can cost £10 or £100m.
We aren't 'underwhelmed and question the boards decision' when they sign young players. We want players like Mejbri, Amad et al. to be given chances.
The reason why players like Gnabry and Coman were able to replace Robben and Ribery is because Bayern are a well oiled side who sign players who fit a specific system. We haven't had a lot of that at all recently. We have an entire attack where no one player particularly complements the others strengths or weaknesses.
The bolded - who? 27 year old John McGinn? 24 year old Haidara? Both of whom have been valued at around £40m too, btw. Your entire post just reads like a random dog pile on the club. In a Declan Rice thread, weirdly.
You say he's being smart - but who is there to go for? Drop some alternatives in other leagues, at his age with his seniority + skill set? There really aren’t [m]any. Rice is a very good player who has the price tag of one.
Yes there are 3 problems. One is definitely on the club for not having established a particular system and style of playing. It's a foundation at any successful club, be it Man City, Liverpool or Barcelona.
Another issue are the expectations of the fans. I'm following the caf for many years and I'm actually often puzzled how many times players aren't deemed good to enough to wear the United shirt. Then there are players who suddenly are hyped and many here believe if they are signed United will challenge for the title. E.g. Sancho or Maguire.
I agree the Declan Rice thread might not be the right place in the other hand he will just be the next Maguire or Sancho. Hyped endlessly and praised as the missing piece for a serious title challenge. If he eventually joins, there will be a lot of disappointment because nothing will change as long United will have a clear identity how the club wants to play football. Only then scouts can actually identify the right targets that fit into the system and not hire another hyped player for ridiculous money.
No it's not, what he's saying is 100% true.
Look at the chances the youngsters get, most notably the cup game where 90% of the squad were youngsters, most of the forum wrote them off as not united quality.
He's giving perfect examples of what would happen.
I was at the match, and he didn't influence much both attacking and defending. He made a lot of rund forward and brought the ball up well, but every time he did it was going towards the corner flag and slowed the attack to a halt.
Defensively, you're right that he wasn't at fault for any of the goals. However, much like the problem we face with our formation, Leeds overran the midfield regularly and he was all over the place. Can't blame him too much for that though, considering Lanzini was his CM partner so was doing a Fred and trying to be 2 CMs at once.
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