Declan Rice

TheReligion

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Don't get why people would watch how west ham played today against us, and think we should buy a player integral to how they play.

Thought we wanted to move away from being a counter attacking team?
I’m not sure that makes any sense unless you feel Rice can only play in one particular type of system and set up?

I don't think he's ever shown he can. England is a good example as to where he doesn't contribute to a more dominant side.

Agreed on your second point, which is why Rice isn't a particularly good investment for us. Maybe Hannibal could be that man, but think with us needing more than just a DM, we need to be smarter.
Rice contributes to England in his pairing with Phillips. The euros was good evidence of this.
 

TheReligion

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I’d argue CDM all have these kind of stats when the team puts in backs to the wall performers like today. Passes to someone within 2 yards of you because it’s such a low block is the easy pass to make.
Someone like Fred won’t be far off with his give and go under absolutely no pressure against that midfield.
West Ham did absolutely nothing through midfield today yet this reads as if Rice controlled the game.
I think I’m going mad and watched a different game today. West Ham would have been a lot better off if they held onto the ball in midfield.
Rice was good today. The issue they had was nothing would stick to Antonio as United were very aggressive and proactive in dealing with him.
 

TheReligion

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I've been saying for years that he'll end up as a starter for a top side and the more I see, the more I'm sure that I somehow chanced upon a rare correct opinion. He's a really good player and he'd improve us and almost every side in the league quite a bit. The price is very toppy, but we felt we were overpaying for Carrick, too.
He’d be very good for us. Thought it for a long time. The money is a concern but it seems he’d be interested.

He’d suit any top team in my opinion and is just getting better and better.
 

Litch

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Def upgrade but not as much as people would make out. Def composure and positioning but passing might be consistent but no way does he dictate the tempo or has the range to influence the game. The price of 80m which is equivalent of 120m pre COVID, I want the complete package.
 

RedCurry

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£100m on him is better value than £75m on Sancho. Still maybe too expensive but the alternatives are either worse players or not coming to us. Get him in.
And 75m on Sancho was better than 80m on Maguire, which was better than 75m for Lukaku. Do you not see how we are paying more because we are paying more? We pay the price no one else would pay for these players and then they have the impossible task of living up to the transfer fee.
 

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If you want him and can afford him, buy him.
 

redshaw

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I kind of doubt we'll go in for around 100m. Unless one of the oil clubs want to splurge I think it's up to Rice to work on a move with less years on his contract. We might inquire at 68-75m and that's top end for us right now, if that's no good for West Ham then so be it.
 

bosnian_red

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I've thought he was a fantastic player for ages. Defensively he is a wall and physically he covers so much space, such a difficult player to play against but he's also very secure in possession. He's perfect for a lone #6 position IMO. His ball progression has improved with time as well, but the true creative side and progression you would want from the other 2 more advanced midfielders, who would have more scope to go forward with Rice behind. A 3 of Rice, Fred and Bruno would IMO be class and very solid, though of course upgrading on Fred would make us more consistent in possession to be able to sustain attacks. Having a base like that though gives your wingers more freedom to cheat that bit higher up the pitch too.

Would love it if we signed him. Don't think we will though. Our board probably thinks McTominay is the same despite being nowhere close to Rice's level as a DM.
 
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Walking example of how important - and underrated - a high tactical IQ is in a player.

People post stats of certain players 'oh this midfielder has 27 presses per 90 and makes 4.1 tackles a game...that means he's a good defensive midfielder."

Rice gives an every week example of how silly that line of thinking is. He'll never top the tackles or pressing charts, yet he's a rock of a defensive midfielder.

His positional sense is consistently brilliant - he cuts the passing lanes so well, yet always seems to pick the right moment to jump out and press the player in possession. When he does commit to making a tackle, he wins them at a very high percentage. He has a great sense of when it's time to drop in and play as a third CB but also knows when he can take the shackles off and go on a driving run through the midfield.

He's physically dominant too. Stream today showed that he'd hit the highest top speed of any player on the pitch. For such a big unit he's got a great burst of acceleration. He's also one of the most aerially dominant defensive midfielders around.

I'd have no issues paying up for him, especially when you see look at some of the mediocrity we throw money at. We're buying a specialist in the position and - maybe even more importantly - an absolute leader on the pitch and a character who can shape our dressing room off it.
 

andersj

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I think we have the creative options to play next to him in our youth set up because both Fred, McTominay, Mejbri, Garner or Galbraith can slot in next to him depending on the opponent. He is so physically and tactically dominant that you won't lose the midfield even if you partner him with a young player coming through.

If we sign him for the fee that West Ham will demand we will need to be creative and brave with who we partner him with. I think whoever, amongst our young midfielders coming up, is most mature and ready should get the nod to play alongside him as the link between Rice and Bruno. If it works it would make spending £100m on him more palatable because the slow motion builds we were doing under Ole don't work, just make your team as competitive as possible in one go.
I really think it would be a huge gamble to expect either to perform as a central midfielder next year, and if we have to do that because we spenf all the money on Rice, it makes me unsure.

Rice/McTominay could work, but we would rely more on our fullbacks in transition and attackers for creativity.
 

Hughie77

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Its up to the boy where he wants to go West Ham I feel will price him out of a move to a bigger club. City don't need him Chelsea may Liverpool may, UTD definitely would make the team better.
He was imo the only stand out West Ham player on show this afternoon, he was a constant pain in stopping attacks and reading where the danger was, a big upgrade to A UTD team maybe not for the others, if I had to pick another team who would benefit him I'd say Chelsea , who would stump up the cash.
 

captaincantona

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Ralf has confirmed that he will play with a 6 and two 8’s. Bruno has been excellent as an 8 and not the kamikaze 10 we had been seeing all season...Fred has been excellent as an 8 as evidenced by his chance creation stats for Ralf...McT in truth could be a 6 or an 8 as his power and shooting in around the box is underused...honestly...buy rice as a our 6 and we would have quite the midfield. Amazing what playing players in the right positions can do.
 

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I’m not sure that makes any sense unless you feel Rice can only play in one particular type of system and set up?



Rice contributes to England in his pairing with Phillips. The euros was good evidence of this.
I'd disagree, I felt like Phillips was the one who contributed and Rice wasnt effective against the better sides.
 

Tragically Hip

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Can someone explain how United would line up with him if we pretended he was in our team now? I'm legitimately curious.
 

TheReligion

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I'd disagree, I felt like Phillips was the one who contributed and Rice wasnt effective against the better sides.
They both complimented each other well but Rice is equally important to England.
 

Hammondo

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I’m not sure that makes any sense unless you feel Rice can only play in one particular type of system and set up?



Rice contributes to England in his pairing with Phillips. The euros was good evidence of this.
We got dominated in midfield Vs Italy.
 

matherto

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Carrick was always key for me due to his intelligence and positioning. Never an in tour face presser type.

Rice feels similar.

I dunno if that works with a high press style but he’s a very good player
 

Oranges038

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I agree with what you said defensively, he's way better than anything we have and one of the best in the world.

I disagree with what you said about dominating midfields because West ham's midfield was very much beaten today by our crap midfield. I don't want a DM who cannot do a lot more for the midfield battle than what rice did today.
I meant dominates his own midfield, meaning he controls the players around him, talks, organises, gives orders instructions all that stuff on the pitch.

Look at how many times he recovered the ball today for West Ham. They weren't set up to chase Utd around, they were setup to be difficult to break down and he was integral to that with his positional play and organisation.
 

TheReligion

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The issue with Rice on the Caf is there’s a number of Irish posters who don’t like him as he opted to play for England over Ireland (and he is English so don’t get the issue).
 

VidaRed

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Not worth more than 50-60m unless we want to get robbed. Dont cite maguire, sancho and pogba, we overpaid for them.
 

cyberman

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The issue with Rice on the Caf is there’s a number of Irish posters who don’t like him as he opted to play for England over Ireland (and he is English so don’t get the issue).
We’ll this is nonsense for a start. We were told this about Grealish last year as well and now, 100m later…
 

Tarrou

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can see him just running his contract down because nobody is paying what West Ham would ask

good player though, he's much more proactive off the ball than our midfielders
 

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I watched on a stream today which as we know is very different from watching a player live.

I would be interested in the views of Rice's performance from those who were at the match today.
From my seat he was the best West Ham player by a country mile. Basically a one man midfield as Soucek wasn't great. Very combatative, broke up several attacks and was very assured on the ball. As I said in an earlier post, he never seems to panic, even when we were trying to harass him.
 

macko12345

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A very very good player. Just notice how he reads where that danger is coming from, or where the ball is going. Also, he is very good at keeping the ball, taking it out of danger. 100 mil might be too much, but I can think of a better DMC at the moment.
 

cyberman

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Is very true sadly and pretty bizarre given they are both actually from England.
I’d go the other way. People like Jack and Rice because it’s a throwback to players they watched growing up who have no place at sides wanting to compete with the elite in modern football.
If Rice wasn’t English he would be considered less than Bissouma who does everything Declan can do but better and who isn’t afraid to step into midfield v top or lower sides.
 

TheReligion

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I’d go the other way. People like Jack and Rice because it’s a throwback to players they watched growing up who have no place at sides wanting to compete with the elite in modern football.
If Rice wasn’t English he would be considered less than Bissouma who does everything Declan can do but better and who isn’t afraid to step into midfield v top or lower sides.
in your opinion *
 

Bondi77

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I thought he played well today and he would walk into our side but the figures mentioned are just ludicrous.
All I have heard him say is that he loves being at the Hammers and if that is where he wants to continue his career then fair play to him.
 

VivaRonaldo85

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I feel like we’re losing Pogba and VDB in the summer and a good case could be made for Matic to also be moved on. So £80-£100 million for this lad to be our number 6 for the next 5-8 years, and also for me our captain, as Maguire isn’t up to it, would be a most efficient use of the fundings we will receive/save from the 2-3 outgoing midfielders. Two of Fred, McTominay and Bruno would ply in front of him I’m sure he’d come providing we get in before a Chelsea for example and he isn’t too London centric.
 

sirAlexsglasses

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But……..can he do it at United, the shirt weighs heavily on many, regardless of their experience / reputation.
 

Hammondo

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I meant dominates his own midfield, meaning he controls the players around him, talks, organises, gives orders instructions all that stuff on the pitch.

Look at how many times he recovered the ball today for West Ham. They weren't set up to chase Utd around, they were setup to be difficult to break down and he was integral to that with his positional play and organisation.
Yes defensively he's very good, but the rest is not so good.
 

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He is a good player and I thought he was playing well today but in no way would it be worth the outlay of the proposed sums. It isn't that I don't know how to appreciate him, I do, but for 80 to 100 millions we can do so many things, that I don't see us in the position to able to affort such kind of luxury. We need somebody who is doing well defensively in midfield, no question about it, but we need more things as well. I think, we need a striker, we need either an energetic AND productive fullback either on the right or on the left and interpreting the joy I felt when I saw Elanga supporting his fullback today, I think we could do with a productive winger just as well. In no way should we spent a years budget on just one player. Especially not one whose appeal stems from being better than own players - there might be many of them, not many we would have so splash 100 millions on.