Declan Rice

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Remember someone saying similar thing when we bought a young Roy Keane for 3.75 million from Nottingham Forest, which back then was a lot of money.
Staying well clear of Declan Rice is a huge mistake, he is exactly what we need, not the bargain basement signing like Haidara/Kamara that people are pining for.
Where have I heard that before? hmmmmm.....

Sancho? Varane? Maguire? Matic? Pogba? Di Maria?

No single player is "exactly what we need", when we we learn?

Roy Keane for what it's worth, came into a Premier League winning side with absolute fecking winners like Robbo, Ince, Schmeichel, Irwin, Bruce, Pally, Cantona, Hughes. He wasn't coming in to be a final piece in some jigsaw, like people would expect of Rice.
 

Deery

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Does any of the top teams play with a plodder like Rice? If we spunk our budget on Rice I will be severely disappointed and the football wouldn’t get any better.
 

Selbourne

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Reminds me of a young Keano, and Keano himself said young Declan is far better player now than he was at 23...some praise that.

Last night he was by a country mile the best player on the pitch against Sevilla and he is still only 23.

Class act.
He's English though, so posters on here will be against it.
 

spe88

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So we should keep signing players like we have and eventually we’ll come good?

Fred: 3 league winner
Lindelof: 3x league winner
Van de Beek: 1x league winner

You’re logic doesn’t make sense just because they’re not English. Wake up.
 

Smores

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He's English though, so posters on here will be against it.
I think people are against it because most are starting to realise individual talent doesn't work unless you solve structural issues. We'd be better spreading that money around so we can resolve the structural issues rather than relying on one person to make up for everyone else. Our signings turn to shit because they're surrounded by it.
 

Bebestation

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He's English though, so posters on here will be against it.
For me, he is exactly the player we miss at CDM aswell - the protector, the guy who sits just in front of the CB'S and let the rest of the team do their own thing.

Whilst I don't watch alot of football outside the PL - it's just so obvious sometimes when people are choosing players that play a completely different type of midfield game to Rice; like pressing terriers similair to Kante or more Box to Box players.

I'd happily spend less money than Rice on a different player if I could see that they played a similair way but I just don't see as many available.

Palinha from Sporting is arguably the closest thing I see to an anchorman that may be available.
 
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I think people are against it because most are starting to realise individual talent doesn't work unless you solve structural issues. We'd be better spreading that money around so we can resolve the structural issues rather than relying on one person to make up for everyone else. Our signings turn to shit because they're surrounded by it.
Nar, one player will sort it, it works for us every summer. Just spunk the cash. Roy Keane and all that.
 

Jonty

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Remember someone saying similar thing when we bought a young Roy Keane for 3.75 million from Nottingham Forest, which back then was a lot of money.
Staying well clear of Declan Rice is a huge mistake, he is exactly what we need, not the bargain basement signing like Haidara/Kamara that people are pining for.
Difference being Roy Keane joined a successful team to replace Bryan Robson and an already strong midfield with a well established manager. Rice for 100m blows the transfer budget and leaves several other deficiencies in the squad unaddressed.
 

saivet

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Still think we shouldn't overpay for him but I do think under the right coach (in theory ETH), he could become a top player in midfield and take his game to the next level. I think he has most of the right attributes but I don't think he's so good that he can be a top player in any team.
 

Mainoldo

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Difference being Roy Keane joined a successful team to replace Bryan Robson and an already strong midfield with a well established manager. Rice for 100m blows the transfer budget and leaves several other deficiencies in the squad unaddressed.
Well he won’t be coming alone if Pogba leaves and we will be bringing in a high calibre manager in the summer whilst also addressing our striker issue.

We have to start believing a high calibre managers gets more from this team. Whether that even means promoting and developing a few of the youth.
 
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In theory when we did do that it works. Can you name the last time we spunked thr cash on 1 player and left it?

Fellaini???
Here was my original post on it. Most Summers we do spend a feck tonne of our entire budget on one player.

Would be the typical United post Fergie signing, spunk an absolute feck load of your Summer budget on one player, who may or may not be overrated and is certainly vastly overpriced.
 

croadyman

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As good a player as he is, another Summer spending the majority of our budget on one player when this squad has so many holes would be doing exactly what we’ve been doing to no success recently.

It will be a shame to miss out but we need to be looking for the next Rice.
Precisely we need to show some shrewdness
 

croadyman

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Kamara on a free and Rice transforms our midfield and Rudiger on a free alongside Varane does the same at centre back, Mazraoui on a free and Laird coming back sorts our right problem out too so there’s value out there IF we were clever but that’s the problem as we’re rarely clever but those five players coming in for a combined £100 million is very astute business.

By the looks of it the sanctions for Abramovich aren’t going to be done with in the space of few months so we’ll have a free run at Rice unless City try to get him which I don’t see with Rodri coming into his own and Fernandinho there for another year it’s unlikely they’d be in for Rice.
Yeah smart business but we never think that way
 

BenitoSTARR

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Kamara on a free and Rice transforms our midfield and Rudiger on a free alongside Varane does the same at centre back, Mazraoui on a free and Laird coming back sorts our right problem out too so there’s value out there IF we were clever but that’s the problem as we’re rarely clever but those five players coming in for a combined £100 million is very astute business.

By the looks of it the sanctions for Abramovich aren’t going to be done with in the space of few months so we’ll have a free run at Rice unless City try to get him which I don’t see with Rodri coming into his own and Fernandinho there for another year it’s unlikely they’d be in for Rice.
I can’t think of any good reasons not to go for free players like the ones you mentioned and then supplementing those with fee paying for great young players like Rice.
 

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Good post. Nothing wrong with promoting English players but they take it to extreme levels because let's face it, England falls short when it comes to producing elite talents when compared to other high profile nations. It's more pronounced when it comes to midfield and defense. If the nation did produce more you'd see more English players starting and getting more minutes for the best English clubs but this isn't the case.

As a result decent to even slightly above average young English players are hyped to the moon even they are not worthy recipients of such lavish and premature praise. Rice is the prime example of such a young English talent and he now believes this hype. How does he consider himself world class when he hasn't even played for one of the top English clubs yet and hasnt even tested himself against the best in CL football? It was the same with Maguire, Stones and even Micheal Keane to an extent.

The goalkeeping situation is even worse. Hart was the last English keeper to start for one of the big clubs and Pep ousted him without blinking. Pickford is bang average and so is Dean Henderson. The Rice hype machine could be setting him up for the fall because he simply isn't elite level, perhaps not yet.
This is true

I believe England has stopped producing top individual quality as they did in the past decades.
The last top quality was Wayne Rooney, what came after that was nowhere the individual quality of Scholes, Beckham, Lampard, Rio Ferdinand, Owen, etc

Now they have a chunk of very good players, but no one with the out standing quality of the likes i mentioned, which might be the reason why City and Liverpool barely have english players in their starting XI, and the likes United has (Maguire,AWB, Lingard, Rashford) look underwhelming.
Probably Chelsea has the best english players.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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As his game is evolving he's slowly transitioning into a player we don't really need. He's becoming more of an #8. I wouldn't cry if we don't sign him, there are probably better fits for us.
 

Bebestation

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I'm not sure how people cannot see the benefit of playing Matic in our system and then don't want to sign an anchorman like Rice.
 

Bebestation

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As his game is evolving he's slowly transitioning into a player we don't really need. He's becoming more of an #8. I wouldn't cry if we don't sign him, there are probably better fits for us.
I disagree with this.

Whilst he can go on alot of runs from one end to another - his main game revolves around dropping in to centre back line and creating a temporary back 3.

Considering this is the tactic of Ten Hag aswell with players like Alvarez and De Jong creating temporary back 3's - I do this his playstyle is something that could be very suited to us.
 

Tarrou

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I'm not sure how people cannot see the benefit of playing Matic in our system and then don't want to sign an anchorman like Rice.
Almost everyone rates him, and would surely take him over Matic all day

it's the price that's the issue, it would take crazy money and in my opinion the ship has already sailed
 

Bebestation

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Almost everyone rates him, and would surely take him over Matic all day

it's the price that's the issue, it would take crazy money and in my opinion the ship has already sailed
I get that but some of these players that are alternative don't really play like Matic or Rice - I'm not talking about their ability, but more how they actually play football in midfield.

Some of these alternatives that people mention are chasing after the ball like a dog and some food. These are great players too, but I do think an anchorman who knows how to sit and protect his CB'S is something we miss much much more.

And whilst I'm not a big foreign league watcher - I do think anchorman's can be harder to find than say the second coming of Kante who is everywhere every second of the 90mins.
 

davidmichael

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As his game is evolving he's slowly transitioning into a player we don't really need. He's becoming more of an #8. I wouldn't cry if we don't sign him, there are probably better fits for us.
This is why signing both Rice and Kamara would work perfectly, if Rice does evolve his game into more of a box to box player then a pairing of Rice and Kamara with Fernandes ahead of them gives us a perfect balance of everything in midfield.

Rice is better than anything we’ve got in midfield other than Pogba when Pogba is motivated or bothered and already has more to his game than McTominay, Fred, Garner, Galbraith, Levitt and Mejbri who are likely to be our only midfield options next season with Pogba, VDB, Matic, Mata and Lingard all likely to leave.
 
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I'm not sure how people cannot see the benefit of playing Matic in our system and then don't want to sign an anchorman like Rice.
The difference is the quality on the ball and the price tag. If Rice had anything like Matic quality, I’d be all for spunking a load of cash on him, but still not in the 80m region.
If a young Matic was available today I wouldn’t spend 80m on him, he’d be a top addition but you’d still need to spend in loads more areas to get a team out of it.
 

jesperjaap

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As his game is evolving he's slowly transitioning into a player we don't really need. He's becoming more of an #8. I wouldn't cry if we don't sign him, there are probably better fits for us.
I disagree, seen lots of posts slating him as he cant drive forward, not great on the ball etc etc which was all rubbish anyway. Now he is improving that he isnt what we need as getting forward more.

Forget the 6 or 8, he is a player that can read the game very well, positions himself well, not makign direct comparison but liek Keane his technique and judegement with short passes and weight of pass is under rated.

He is exactly what we need off of the ball without posession and is becoming more what we need on it.......bar the most important part, the price tag which doesnt make him feasible unless we make big sales
 

jesperjaap

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When we spent our budget on four players a couple of years back I made a thread about how it was one of our best transfer windows. We signed Van De Beek, Telles, Diallo and Pellistri.
Did you genuinely think that was a good window? I thought it was dreadful when we were linked with SAncho and Grealish at that time. We signed a tidy midfielder who didnt solve anything, a good back up left back and spent a lot of money on a very young winger with one proffesional appearance and then went and spent on another inexperiened winger too.

Time will tell if Amad/Pellestri longer term were good signings but I thougt at the time Telles as better competition was the only good signing and nothing else in a squad even weaker than now was solved at all, very dissapointing window bar the excitement of a coupel of young unknowns coming
 

Classical Mechanic

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Did you genuinely think that was a good window? I thought it was dreadful when we were linked with SAncho and Grealish at that time. We signed a tidy midfielder who didnt solve anything, a good back up left back and spent a lot of money on a very young winger with one proffesional appearance and then went and spent on another inexperiened winger too.

Time will tell if Amad/Pellestri longer term were good signings but I thougt at the time Telles as better competition was the only good signing and nothing else in a squad even weaker than now was solved at all, very dissapointing window bar the excitement of a coupel of young unknowns coming
I made the thread:nervous:

I thought all would be better yes. I never rated VDB like some but I thought that he would contribute more than 0. I thought Telles would be a lot better too. Diallo looked class but watching him more brings me to the conclusion that he won’t make it here.
 

Bebestation

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The difference is the quality on the ball and the price tag. If Rice had anything like Matic quality, I’d be all for spunking a load of cash on him, but still not in the 80m region.
If a young Matic was available today I wouldn’t spend 80m on him, he’d be a top addition but you’d still need to spend in loads more areas to get a team out of it.
For me Rice is a better defensive player at the age of 23 than Matic and has plenty of time to add more creativity to his game that Matic added around the age of 26.

Anyway, it's hard convincing a person about Rice and his ability to pass which is understandable.

Some fans of him like me and others on this forum believe he has the ability to pass but is not a risk taker so will always go for the safest and shortest option.

As a 23 year old player all I see that's going to happen is that Risk taking ability of Rice gets better. His passing is fine as seen when West Ham need to get a goal and Rice turns in to a different player in the last 15 mins of a game to try help the whole team get a goal.

Anyway, it's ultimately just words and hopefully he himself changes your opinion.

What I like the most about Rice is how he has managed to change many peoples mind about signing him. It always felt like to me was that I never rated Rice the least I watched him. I started watching him more almost to see what the hype was about and I ended up liking him more and more.
 

ti vu

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I get that but some of these players that are alternative don't really play like Matic or Rice - I'm not talking about their ability, but more how they actually play football in midfield.

Some of these alternatives that people mention are chasing after the ball like a dog and some food. These are great players too, but I do think an anchorman who knows how to sit and protect his CB'S is something we miss much much more.

And whilst I'm not a big foreign league watcher - I do think anchorman's can be harder to find than say the second coming of Kante who is everywhere every second of the 90mins.
The thing is this anchorman can be someone in different profile. Someone like Jorginho is the anchor in Chelsea midfield, and he's weak defensively. Not comparable to Carrick at all. It still works with Kovacic who is not on the same level of defensive powerhouse as Kante.

Yes. Everyone agree we need to fix this pivot position with a signing. However, we're still at a stage where we have to sit back and wait until we know our new manager so we can judge who would be better dit for his ideas.

For example, if ETH is chosen, then for 80+mil, we can throw an offer toward Barcelona for F. de Jong for that pivot position. Someone like F. de Jong can be the one bird two stone solution for both pivot position as well as the creative replacement for Pogba potential move away.
 

NZT-One

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For me, he is exactly the player we miss at CDM aswell - the protector, the guy who sits just in front of the CB'S and let the rest of the team do their own thing.

Whilst I don't watch alot of football outside the PL - it's just so obvious sometimes when people are choosing players that play a completely different type of midfield game to Rice; like pressing terriers similair to Kante or more Box to Box players.

I'd happily spend less money than Rice on a different player if I could see that they played a similair way but I just don't see as many available.

Palinha from Sporting is arguably the closest thing I see to an anchorman that may be available.
I think, some of the bigger teams start/started to move away from such a model. They work together as a unit all in once, not having two separate sub-teams. Doesn't mean we have to do the same but if that is wide spread trend it would be a reason, why there isn't a whole of players like Rice these days.

Not going into how good it would be to have Rice (I think, it would be a very big improvement), but I think, we are better off analyzing current trends. For City, Rodri isn't the one shielding the CBs, he is more of an orchestrator pulling strings. Chelsea doesn't use such a player as well. I guess, the idea is, that you want to have players very capable on the ball on as many positions as possible and deal with the defensive aspects with team measures. It isn't a coincidence that Pep or Tuchel or even Nagelsmann value possession as much as they do. High press works in the same sphere.

Personally I think we ultimately should navigate towards these ideas as well. Currently we are way off that which makes a player like Rice so appealing I guess. Understandably so, but I am sure he won't singlehandedly turn us into a better side (better in a way that we are able to compete for highest honors) and if he doesn't do it, then right now he isn't worth risking the budget for as there are many places where investment would be needed.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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The thing is this anchorman can be someone in different profile. Someone like Jorginho is the anchor in Chelsea midfield, and he's weak defensively. Not comparable to Carrick at all. It still works with Kovacic who is not on the same level of defensive powerhouse as Kante.

Yes. Everyone agree we need to fix this pivot position with a signing. However, we're still at a stage where we have to sit back and wait until we know our new manager so we can judge who would be better dit for his ideas.

For example, if ETH is chosen, then for 80+mil, we can throw an offer toward Barcelona for F. de Jong for that pivot position. Someone like F. de Jong can be the one bird two stone solution for both pivot position as well as the creative replacement for Pogba potential move away.
Why should Barcelona accept 80m+ on young talented player like de Jong who still has contract until 2026? They will want 200m.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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I think, some of the bigger teams start/started to move away from such a model. They work together as a unit all in once, not having two separate sub-teams. Doesn't mean we have to do the same but if that is wide spread trend it would be a reason, why there isn't a whole of players like Rice these days.

Not going into how good it would be to have Rice (I think, it would be a very big improvement), but I think, we are better off analyzing current trends. For City, Rodri isn't the one shielding the CBs, he is more of an orchestrator pulling strings. Chelsea doesn't use such a player as well. I guess, the idea is, that you want to have players very capable on the ball on as many positions as possible and deal with the defensive aspects with team measures. It isn't a coincidence that Pep or Tuchel or even Nagelsmann value possession as much as they do. High press works in the same sphere.

Personally I think we ultimately should navigate towards these ideas as well. Currently we are way off that which makes a player like Rice so appealing I guess. Understandably so, but I am sure he won't singlehandedly turn us into a better side and if he doesn't do it, then right now he isn't worth risking the budget for as there are many places where investment would be needed.
What about Liverpool under Kloop? Would you consider Fabinho as more of an orchestrator that pulling strings?
 
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