Declan Rice

ti vu

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Why should Barcelona accept 80m+ on young talented player like de Jong who still has contract until 2026? They will want 200m.
I said for example. 80+mil can be throwing one of our players their way too. They're having a wild transfer approach nowadays, so they may fancy Martial, Rashford, Telles... Who knows.

The point being about solving this position another type of profile of midfielder. Not Rice vs J. de Jong. All thing is still unclear until we finalize our the new manager appointment.
 

MyOnlySolskjaer

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I disagree, seen lots of posts slating him as he cant drive forward, not great on the ball etc etc which was all rubbish anyway. Now he is improving that he isnt what we need as getting forward more.

Forget the 6 or 8, he is a player that can read the game very well, positions himself well, not makign direct comparison but liek Keane his technique and judegement with short passes and weight of pass is under rated.

He is exactly what we need off of the ball without posession and is becoming more what we need on it.......bar the most important part, the price tag which doesnt make him feasible unless we make big sales
The point is, most people are expecting him to come in and be the lone defensive midfielder to solve all of our issues and be a younger Matic and he is not that player at all. He's actively been trying for the past season not to be this type of player. He enjoys going forward. His best role is the same that Fred is occupying (vs Spurs). I'm not saying signing him is a bad thing but his role of a midfielder is what we currently have in Fred and McTominay but he's an upgrade, is he worth it for a £100M upgrade, I'm not sure. What we're lacking is the Carrick/Matic.


 

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What about Liverpool under Kloop? Would you consider Fabinho as more of an orchestrator that pulling strings?
Good question. Two things: Liverpools works together as a team in defensive situations as well. So Fabinho isn't usually asked to "take care of defense while others do attack". So I think Fabinho isn't a defensive anchor nor is he the one orchestrator for Liverpool.
According to his fbref report, he is pretty comparable to Rice in terms of characterics (though suprisingly a bit more rounded in defense). I think, Fabinho played as Fullback back in the day so I think, his overall mindset is a bit more rounded in terms of mixing defense and attack.

Good player though, was very sad that we didn't go for him back then.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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The point is, most people are expecting him to come in and be the lone defensive midfielder to solve all of our issues and be a younger Matic and he is not that player at all. He's actively been trying for the past season not to be this type of player. He enjoys going forward. His best role is the same that Fred is occupying (vs Spurs). I'm not saying signing him is a bad thing but his role of a midfielder is what we currently have in Fred and McTominay but he's an upgrade, is he worth it for a £100M upgrade, I'm not sure. What we're lacking is the Carrick/Matic.


It's like Roy Keane. Box To Box who is also equally good as DM.
 

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I’d take him all day, would be perfect for us shielding the back four and I don’t think his passing range is anywhere near as bad as people make out.

He’ll be like a Lampard if we don’t sign him, he’ll go somewhere soon, get even better and everyone will be saying we should have got him, would have been a perfect fit etc. Similar to us getting Carrick at the time, he was what was needed then, Rice is what we need now.
 

ti vu

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I’d take him all day, would be perfect for us shielding the back four and I don’t think his passing range is anywhere near as bad as people make out.

He’ll be like a Lampard if we don’t sign him, he’ll go somewhere soon, get even better and everyone will be saying we should have got him, would have been a perfect fit etc. Similar to us getting Carrick at the time, he was what was needed then, Rice is what we need now.
If Chelsea situation is unresolved, I don't see there is any destination other than us and perhaps Newcastle for him. City and Liverpool look set. Levy highly unlikely pay the required fee. Arsenal is looking for a different kind of midfielder. I am not sure which foreign clubs are interested and can afford him.

So it's pretty much boiled down to how much we're willing to pay for him, or his option is very limited.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Good question. Two things: Liverpools works together as a team in defensive situations as well. So Fabinho isn't usually asked to "take care of defense while others do attack". So I think Fabinho isn't a defensive anchor nor is he the one orchestrator for Liverpool.
According to his fbref report, he is pretty comparable to Rice in terms of characterics (though suprisingly a bit more rounded in defense). I think, Fabinho played as Fullback back in the day so I think, his overall mindset is a bit more rounded in terms of mixing defense and attack.

Good player though, was very sad that we didn't go for him back then.
Rice is comparable to Fabinho on attack and passing though.
 

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Rice is comparable to Fabinho on attack and passing though.
Yeah you are right. At least that is what the fbref reports suggest. Keeping in mind, that those have the last 365 days as foundation. In terms of ability, Rice might be even superior to Fabinho. I don't know. One plays in a tightly knit defensive unit under Moyes, the other plays in a very dynamic pressing based team which also effects the reports values.

That all being said, I wouldn't have wanted for Fabinho for more than 40-50 million as well. The price is the biggest issue. That Rice comes acress as a bit of thick in the last weeks is just an addon.
 

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Yeah you are right. At least that is what the fbref reports suggest. Keeping in mind, that those have the last 365 days as foundation. In terms of ability, Rice might be even superior to Fabinho. I don't know. One plays in a tightly knit defensive unit under Moyes, the other plays in a very dynamic pressing based team which also effects the reports values.

That all being said, I wouldn't have wanted for Fabinho for more than 40-50 million as well. The price is the biggest issue. That Rice comes acress as a bit of thick in the last weeks is just an addon.
To me Rice's current level is either as good as or better (like what you said he might even superior to Fabinho) than Fabinho's current level. Which the fbref reflects to it as per you said.

In addition, Rice was born a leader and he's West Ham captain. In term of potential, prime Rice can become much better than prime Fabinho. And this type of DM is still very suitable for top team to challenge for major trophies under modern manager which proven in Klopp and Liverpool right now.

I think people are scared of the Maguire's case. Unlike Maguire, Rice is highly rated by his team mate. I never hear pundits and players say Maguire will be the best CB in the world while lot of players and pundits had mentioned highly about Rice. Not saying Rice will make it but his ceiling as midfielder is much higher than Maguire was as CB.
 

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When he played as a 6 he got criticized for not having more of an all round game. So he said right I’m going to show what I can do. Now he’s playing more 8 stuff people are saying we’ve already got 8s we need 6. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
personally I think he’s a top player but the price point would be sticking if it took all our budget
 

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To me Rice's current level is either as good as or better (like what you said he might even superior to Fabinho) than Fabinho's current level. Which the fbref reflects to it as per you said.

In addition, Rice was born a leader and he's West Ham captain. In term of potential, prime Rice can become much better than prime Fabinho. And this type of DM is still very suitable for top team to challenge for major trophies under modern manager which proven in Klopp and Liverpool right now.

I think people are scared of the Maguire's case. Unlike Maguire, Rice is highly rated by his team mate. I never hear pundits and players say Maguire will be the best CB in the world while lot of players and pundits had mentioned highly about Rice. Not saying Rice will make it but his ceiling as midfielder is much higher than Maguire was as CB.
I understand this train of thought. And I would agree that the lesson, that the Maguire case has told, is a valuable one. But I highly doubt, that we, in the situation we are in, should now think, because we made a mistake (with Maguire) and we understand its causes and effects, are now equipped to assume that we can gamble on the same level and then succeed. I've never heard that somebody called Fabinho as being integral to Liverpools football or success. He is a good player but Liverpools performances do not fall or stand with him. I am sure, Klopp could make use of Rice as well. But he probably could make use of Fred or McTominay as well.

As good as Rice might be, I don't see the slightest chance, that he could be some sort of shortcut to actual success in terms of titles. Not with the other areas we struggle in (Fullbacks, Strikers, potentially even Wingers). So there is no point in getting Rice now and cripple the chances of closing maybe one, two or three gaps.
We just shouldn't do it. Not because Rice isn't a good player. But because no player is singlehandedly so good that he could transform us into winners. It will take at least three or four, maybe even more player to get there and putting all your money on one card, a card that has spent all his career at Westham (comfort zone) never really has challenged against CL teams would be extremely dumb/shortsighted. Even if we bring him in and he succeeds it would be a mistake. Tuchel doesn't need a player like that, Bayern doesn't, City doesn't. If we want to spent stupidly big on an Englishmen, it should be Bellingham, as he seems to be a very modern player who works in a very modern team. (And just for protocol, I'd consider spending 100 million on Bellingham as a mistake as well).
 

Bebestation

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The One thing I believe is that -

The high prices put on a player doesn't come because of a players genuine value;

It comes because we are Manchester United and everyone knows we have money.
 

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The One thing I believe is that -

The high prices put on a player doesn't come because of a players genuine value;

It comes because we are Manchester United and everyone knows we have money.
Absolutely. But I don't think, it is just the fact, that we have money but rather the fact, that we are stupid enough to spend big even when we shouldn't. (Thanks Woody btw)
I mean, City is way more loaded than we are and while definitely not haggling over 1 or 2 millions, I don't think they pay excessive premiums.
 

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If Chelsea situation is unresolved, I don't see there is any destination other than us and perhaps Newcastle for him. City and Liverpool look set. Levy highly unlikely pay the required fee. Arsenal is looking for a different kind of midfielder. I am not sure which foreign clubs are interested and can afford him.

So it's pretty much boiled down to how much we're willing to pay for him, or his option is very limited.
We should snap him up, crazy not too
 

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The One thing I believe is that -

The high prices put on a player doesn't come because of a players genuine value;

It comes because we are Manchester United and everyone knows we have money.
There definitely are cases of this, but Rice isn't one of them. West Ham don't need money and they desperately want to keep him as long as they can. So they put an asking price that will scare off pretty much anyone, while being able to tell the player that they are willing to sell if a club actually wants him enough to pay the price. Same as Sancho and Grealish when we went for them. It's the downside of buying the top players from relatively rich clubs. They are more than happy to keep a player for an extra season even if it means they get 20m less the following season when they eventually do sell (although Grealish actually increased in price in the 12 months until City bought him).
 

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When he played as a 6 he got criticized for not having more of an all round game. So he said right I’m going to show what I can do. Now he’s playing more 8 stuff people are saying we’ve already got 8s we need 6. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
personally I think he’s a top player but the price point would be sticking if it took all our budget
We actually need a player who can stay disciplined as the most defensive midfielder and also have the capability to get forward in the attacking third. Having midfielders with a complete skillset is very useful and is something that is a advantage. So Rice working on his all round game makes him a even better player and it should be looked upon as a good thing.

.
 

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We actually need a player who can stay disciplined as the most defensive midfielder and also have the capability to get forward in the attacking third. Having midfielders with a complete skillset is very useful and is something that is a advantage. So Rice working on his all round game makes him a even better player and it should be looked upon as a good thing.

.
I agree, he’s worked on showing he’s got an overall game. But; it’ll boil down to money. We won’t be able to afford him, Chelsea won’t anymore. He may end up stuck at WH for a bit
 

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Check out Steven Gerrard's post match interview today. The interviewer was joking about him becoming England manager down the line and Gerrard's response was 'I don't want to get too far ahead of myself but I hope Declan Rice is available if that day comes'. That is one hell of a compliment
 

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The point is, most people are expecting him to come in and be the lone defensive midfielder to solve all of our issues and be a younger Matic and he is not that player at all. He's actively been trying for the past season not to be this type of player. He enjoys going forward. His best role is the same that Fred is occupying (vs Spurs). I'm not saying signing him is a bad thing but his role of a midfielder is what we currently have in Fred and McTominay but he's an upgrade, is he worth it for a £100M upgrade, I'm not sure. What we're lacking is the Carrick/Matic.


Well I habve thought for nearly two seasons now......we need TWO midfield signings so the rigth partnership is important. But for sure he is a massive upgrade on the quality of them, was only a year ago people were saying McTominay was better which was always laughable.

I am probablyold fashioned or just old, but I hate all this 6 or 8. Were Robson or Keane such a number, top midfielders years ago could defend and attack and perform both roles in the same game. Gerrard did the same for Liverpool
 

jesperjaap

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I made the thread:nervous:

I thought all would be better yes. I never rated VDB like some but I thought that he would contribute more than 0. I thought Telles would be a lot better too. Diallo looked class but watching him more brings me to the conclusion that he won’t make it here.
Like I said its exctitign to sign young unknowns but how can you say Diallo looked class as can only judge him from youtube, he simply hadnt played. I think Diallo looks good actually, but he is a logn way off where people thought he would be development wise as of coruse got overhyped arriving.

The window was sad for me as we were so heavily linked with Grealish and Sancho and a fair few central midfielders, so it was hugely dissappointing in the short term as a window
 

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I understand this train of thought. And I would agree that the lesson, that the Maguire case has told, is a valuable one. But I highly doubt, that we, in the situation we are in, should now think, because we made a mistake (with Maguire) and we understand its causes and effects, are now equipped to assume that we can gamble on the same level and then succeed. I've never heard that somebody called Fabinho as being integral to Liverpools football or success. He is a good player but Liverpools performances do not fall or stand with him. I am sure, Klopp could make use of Rice as well. But he probably could make use of Fred or McTominay as well.

As good as Rice might be, I don't see the slightest chance, that he could be some sort of shortcut to actual success in terms of titles. Not with the other areas we struggle in (Fullbacks, Strikers, potentially even Wingers). So there is no point in getting Rice now and cripple the chances of closing maybe one, two or three gaps.
We just shouldn't do it. Not because Rice isn't a good player. But because no player is singlehandedly so good that he could transform us into winners. It will take at least three or four, maybe even more player to get there and putting all your money on one card, a card that has spent all his career at Westham (comfort zone) never really has challenged against CL teams would be extremely dumb/shortsighted. Even if we bring him in and he succeeds it would be a mistake. Tuchel doesn't need a player like that, Bayern doesn't, City doesn't. If we want to spent stupidly big on an Englishmen, it should be Bellingham, as he seems to be a very modern player who works in a very modern team. (And just for protocol, I'd consider spending 100 million on Bellingham as a mistake as well).
Ever since Fabinho joined Liverpool, Fabinho is one of Liverpool players who rarely get rotated. He's a DM and without a DM, they wouldn't be where they are with their system. McTominay or Fred are not DM so not even Klopp could make use of them as his DM.

As much as you want to cover other areas like fullbacks, strikers, and wingers. We are uncapable to sign all the quality ones in one window anyway. So even if we cover them all with prospect signings, they are still not going to be shortcut to actual success in terms of titles either. For example, if we end up spending 50m on Livramento as our right back, his potential is top class but his current level is not better than Dalot. We might should just let him develop in Southampton and try to give Dalot a chance and develop him.

Right now what we need is sign players that we don't have but can also improve other players. One of the good example is a DM because unlike fullbacks or CBs, we don't have a DM apart from old Matic who can't be guaranteed to play every game. Fred and McTominay is not a DM, they are no 8.So if we want to make use of what we have right now like Fred and McTominay then we need to sign a DM. For example, Fred plays his best in Brazil with Casemiro, what is Casemiro? a DM. DM could improve other players' game just like what happened to Fred vs Spurs when Matic plays as DM.
 

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He's pretty good nowadays. Kept Coutinho very quiet and he has good level of mid range passing.

Man. United is obvious link given he's comfortably better than your options in midfield. I do wonder if Liverpool would look at him with Henderson in his 30s now and Thiago in and out with injuries. Him infront of Fabiano and that's a very strong duo.

Chelsea was obvious link but that's off the table until they sell the club.

Issue will likely be he'll move for 80m + so will get same stick as Maguire when he inevitably hits a dip in form or dosen't run games at CL level.

Well worth taking for anyone finishing above West Ham in the league this season who can afford him.
 

Bebestation

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The way he is able to dribble and get past people and the press is just great to see. I never thought he had that in him. Been doing it the whole season. Now he is adding some long distance passing to his game too.
 
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SoCross

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When he played as a 6 he got criticized for not having more of an all round game. So he said right I’m going to show what I can do. Now he’s playing more 8 stuff people are saying we’ve already got 8s we need 6. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
personally I think he’s a top player but the price point would be sticking if it took all our budget
Pretty much my view on this. A 6 with the capability of moving the ball around with a good level of passing/dribbling is an asset instead of just looking for a player who's just going to sit and shield. Case in point, Matic, Carrick. Very good at playing the 6 role but are/were never shy of going forward as well when needed.

It's just the price point which is an issue.
 

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I'm really impressed by Declan Rice and think he should be the No. 1 target in our upcoming summer window. He really the Keane-like CM we are missing for years.

He can hunt down whoever opponents, run non-stop and still has the stamina at like 89 mins to carry ball forward and lead a counter attack. Also he can pass with both feet; of course not at the Scholes / Carrick level to launch 50-yard accurate long passes, but he provide very steady short passes to ensure the transition after winning the balls, just exactly like Keane. Also he seems real professional who takes care of himself and focus on football , barely injured , and you can count on him to perform consistently.

Mostly importantly, he is the best PL-proven MC you could recruit in the market. Others either already in the top teams or just in some weaker leagues. Players like Tchouameni , Kamara might look great on Youtube clips , who knows if they would turn into Bakayoko after comes to PL ?
 

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Is anyone seriously still thinking that this marquee signing is the way forward? Have we learnt nothing?

The stance on Rice should be obvious - “great player, any club would like to have him, but £100m - not even an option”.
 

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Good question. Two things: Liverpools works together as a team in defensive situations as well. So Fabinho isn't usually asked to "take care of defense while others do attack". So I think Fabinho isn't a defensive anchor nor is he the one orchestrator for Liverpool.
According to his fbref report, he is pretty comparable to Rice in terms of characterics (though suprisingly a bit more rounded in defense). I think, Fabinho played as Fullback back in the day so I think, his overall mindset is a bit more rounded in terms of mixing defense and attack.

Good player though, was very sad that we didn't go for him back then.
I think he is, but the way he does it, as I see it, is that he is the kind of player that put out fire before it becomes fire, whenever i watch Fabinho, and a team is breaking on Liverpool, you'll see Fabinho sensing danger very early and stopping the attack, that what I think why Fabinho excels in Liverpool's midfield.

as for Rice, I can say he also is the kind of DM who senses danger, but again, also as you said, Rice plays in a defensive system and we do not know how he would perform in an attacking team, but Rodri came from Atletico Madrid, a very defensive team, and is doing well in a dominant and attacking team like City.
 

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The price precludes us from him, even in the unlikely event we wangle 4th.

He'll be at West ham a long time, I can't see he being sold for less than 60m and no one's paying it.
 

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I've seen reports of Tchouameni needing a £83 million transfer fee in 2022.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.si...ice-tag-set-at-83m-amid-interest-from-chelsea

Would the people who don't want to spend 80-100 million on Rice be happy to spend such a price on a player like Tchouameni?

Or do people think we should skip on him too and try find ourself a free transfer to £40 mil player?
I think we will do the £40m to free transfer player, it's just our budget constraints, with so many positions needing to be addressed. I wouldn't want to spend £83m on Tchouameni either either.
I think signing Collyer means we won’t be getting Declan Rice.
:lol: what? he's never even made a first team appearance.
 

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Maybe we'll bring back Garner let him be our first DM and after a year we'll sign Rice with a year remaining on his contract
Garner has been playing as no 8 at Forest, while a forest fan told me he’s not good to be no 6, he said his talent is more a no 8.
 

OrcaFat

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I don’t think he’ll want to come here in our present malaise. Having said that, I think we’ll try to get him but will fail due to our shambolic recruitment process. We just can’t seem to get anything right.

Jeez. I never felt quite so gloomy about our prospects as I do right now.
 
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Having said that, I think we’ll try to get him but will fail due to our shambolic recruitment process. We just can’t seem to get anything right.
Over the past decade and more, we’ve actually proven to be the best in England at overpaying by far for English, or Premier League players that have ultimately proven to a be a let down, Smalling, Jones, Schneiderlin, Mata, Fellaini, Zaha, Shaw, Maguire, AWB. Jury’s certainly out on the massive fee for Sancho also.
So recent evidence suggests the opposite of your post, we would likely be the only ones to offer 90 million quid for him, only for him to arrive and us realise that he’s alright but not ultimately any solution to our bigger wider issues as a club/team.
 

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We should start thinking like club in rebuild process, Rice is like a missing piece of the puzzle signing, would be great for us, but we need to spend the money on 2-3 players to develop