Declan Rice

Maluco

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Calm down, it was his first season in the EPL. He's class.
Not saying he is not class, I am saying he doesn’t work as the deepest midfielder and they have dropped numerous points this season when the play him with combos of KdB, Gundogan and Silva. Tonight is another example of that so far.

Again, not saying he isn’t a good player, but he doesn’t have the attributes to play that role.

Ask a City fan.
 

Maluco

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Aguero hasn't been fit most of the year....and that's exactly why City havent been up to par this year...defense is not good enough and thats the backline including Mendy who is so poor. Laporte has missed time due to injury and he's their best CB. Jesus isn't good enough and obviously isn't Aguero.

Rodri is a good player. Gomes doesn't even play the same position as McTominay nor Garner nor Rice.
Like I said above, the lack of balance in their midfield has been their biggest issue In my opinion so I won’t include Rodri as a good example. He is a good player, but he isn’t a holding or deep lying midfielder.

Gomes example wasn’t about position, it was about not getting through to the first team. Garner can’t be listed as an option as he has hardly played. Anything could happen to a player at that stage of his development.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Glad this was bumped. I also felt he was fantastic against Spurs. Off the ball has never been an issue for me. Amongst the most tackles and interceptions in the league. On the ball however, you just want that bit more from him, and that was something I certainly saw from him against Spurs.
 

edcunited1878

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Like I said above, the lack of balance in their midfield has been their biggest issue In my opinion so I won’t include Rodri as a good example. He is a good player, but he isn’t a holding or deep lying midfielder.

Gomes example wasn’t about position, it was about not getting through to the first team. Garner can’t be listed as an option as he has hardly played. Anything could happen to a player at that stage of his development.
But that's the point. Rice has a lot to develop in his game and United are already developing a similar type of player in McTominay. Why overspend for a player who is marginally better than McTominay? Stick with McTominay and continue to develop players you have in house who are of similar projection. Rice isn't anything special, especially not what West Ham would demand for him.
 

Maluco

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But that's the point. Rice has a lot to develop in his game and United are already developing a similar type of player in McTominay. Why overspend for a player who is marginally better than McTominay? Stick with McTominay and continue to develop players you have in house who are of similar projection. Rice isn't anything special, especially not what West Ham would demand for him.
You are possibly right, and I wouldn’t want to spend big money on him. If they did get relegated though and his value was about 30 million, I would think the club would consider it.

I think he may have a higher ceiling than McT, but we shall see. I think he has a real drive about him that is quite rare in young players.
 

Dante

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McTominay and Rice both possess a similar amount of ability. The difference is the role in which each of them excels. With Rice, it's sitting in front of his CBs. With McTominay, it's pressing a little bit higher in midfield. Neither is a world class in his own right, but both are good enough to be members of world class teams.

If our plan for the future is to regularly field two attacking midfielders, the third midfielder probably needs to be a Rice-type rather than a McTominay-type. Which is unfortunate, because we already have two McTominay-types in the squad (if you include Fred). Filling that hole is an extra expense we could have done without.

I wouldn't be too upset if we bought Rice, but nor would I be bothered if somebody else bought him instead. In a limited role that's been tailor made for him, I think Rice has the potential to be great. But I'd personally prefer somebody who's capable of playing beyond a limited role when the game demands it.

So a better version of Rice would be my priority for the Summer (assuming Pogba stays). But if none is available, Rice wouldn't be too bad. Some of his qualities are definitely missing from the squad.
 

Slysi17

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Rodri doesn’t work in that role at City, and it has cost them the title this season. Ndidi isn’t any more of a footballer than Rice and Fabinho has the tenacity and drive of Rice which I find so appealing.

I think you are underrating him as a player here. McTominey is a great option to have, but Garner can’t be considered in the debate. We saw what has happened to Gomes.
We can fecking do better. Seems like people are obsessed with English/British players. There are midfielders around the world who we could get that would be much better than Rice if we used our scouts properly. They would also be cheaper.
 
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jamesjimmybyrondean

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McTominay and Rice both possess a similar amount of ability. The difference is the role in which each of them excels. With Rice, it's sitting in front of his CBs. With McTominay, it's pressing a little bit higher in midfield. Neither is a world class in his own right, but both are good enough to be members of world class teams.

If our plan for the future is to regularly field two attacking midfielders, the third midfielder probably needs to be a Rice-type rather than a McTominay-type. Which is unfortunate, because we already have two McTominay-types in the squad (if you include Fred). Filling that hole is an extra expense we could have done without.

I wouldn't be too upset if we bought Rice, but nor would I be bothered if somebody else bought him instead. In a limited role that's been tailor made for him, I think Rice has the potential to be great. But I'd personally prefer somebody who's capable of playing beyond a limited role when the game demands it.

So a better version of Rice would be my priority for the Summer (assuming Pogba stays). But if none is available, Rice wouldn't be too bad. Some of his qualities are definitely missing from the squad.
Exactly. I've been thinking that we already have defensive players like Matic Fred and Mctominay and only two creative midfielders in Pogba and Bruno, so getting another defensive player like Rice seems like overkill. In truth though, we actually need a DM since an ageing Matic is the only one that can play that role.

But if we get Rice, though we would have 6 solid midfielders in Pogba Bruno Matic Rice Mctominay and Fred. Out of these 6 midfielders, 4 of them can't be called upon if we are having issues with creativity. I think we should get more of a creative DM like a Carrick and we would kill two birds with one stone - that is increasing creativity and getting a Matic successor
 

Sultan

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Matic is a much superior player. If he keeps up the form he'll be fine going into next season. To be fair, unless I'm missing something very obvious, I just don't get the hype with D Rice.
 

edgecutter

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Good player and I would have no issue about brining him here, but West Ham are going to want massive money for him. If they manage to get relegated then it could be on the cards, but we need to shift one of our midfielders on.
 

devilish

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Alot depends on whether Pogba stays or leaves. If he stays then we need to get a DM to cover/replace Matic in the future. Meanwhile Mejbri, Fred and McT would cover for Bruno and Pogba. If he leaves then we should bring a creative b2b like VDB. Hopefully that would add enough work rate for us to try to get away with McT and Fred as DM. Another creative CM on the cheap would be nice
 

Craig Ward

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I understand if you don't rate the other 3 (albeit Matic having 2 EPL titles to his name) but surely Pogba is an intruder on that list.
In terms of playing DM - I'd rate Pogba as good.

Pogba is a top player when on form and playing to his strengths. When he plays DM, he's good but not great, just like the others.

I'm not going to turn this thread into another pogba debate like every other.

Point is. for DM, Rice is no better than any player we can put there currently
 
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Brilliant post.

Just highlights while the like of McTom/Fred/Pogba/Matic are good solid players - we can do better.

I believe each of these are capable of better, but in terms of potential signings we need to be looking at a higher standard than a Declan Rice
Did you seriously just put Pogba in the same bracket as McTominay, Fred & Matic?!

In terms of their ability it’s
Pogba

















Matic



Fred

McTominay

Imagine describing one it the most technically gifted players in world football as a “good solid player” like he’s fecking Mark Noble. Do me a favour mate...
 

Craig Ward

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Did you seriously just put Pogba in the same bracket as McTominay, Fred & Matic?!
In terms of playing DM - I'd rate Pogba as good.

Pogba is a top player when on form and playing to his strengths. When he plays DM, he's good but not great, just like the others.

I'm not going to turn this thread into another pogba debate like every other.

Point is. for DM, Rice is no better than any player we can put there currently
 

Adam-Utd

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In terms of playing DM - I'd rate Pogba as good.

Pogba is a top player when on form and playing to his strengths. When he plays DM, he's good but not great, just like the others.

I'm not going to turn this thread into another pogba debate like every other.

Point is. for DM, Rice is no better than any player we can put there currently
Pogba has never played DM in his life what are you talking about
 

Craig Ward

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Pogba has never played DM in his life what are you talking about
Ok then.

Talk about Declan Rice in this thread.

Not making this a Pogba debate like every other one
 

Adam-Utd

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Ok then.

Talk about Declan Rice in this thread.

Not making this a Pogba debate like every other one
You're the one bringing your dislike for Pogba into this thread :lol:

The other poster just called you out on it that's all. Anyways... Declan Rice.

Decent destroyer and good athleticism, not much else to his game. He'd look like Schneiderlin if he joined us right now.

When he played for England in a similar role he looked absolutely lost.
 

Craig Ward

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You're the one bringing your dislike for Pogba into this thread :lol:

The other poster just called you out on it that's all. Anyways... Declan Rice.

Decent destroyer and good athleticism, not much else to his game. He'd look like Schneiderlin if he joined us right now.

When he played for England in a similar role he looked absolutely lost.
Pogba is a good DM. Better when played further forward. Thats all.

Pretty simple logic but i guess thats too hard for some people.
 

Adam-Utd

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Pogba is a good DM. Better when played further forward. Thats all.

Pretty simple logic but i guess thats too hard for some people.
Is he though? i'd say in our team he plays the perfect role. Not many other players in our squad can do what he did with the pass into Bruno for the 3rd goal.

He's also much better defensively when playing this role, the closer to the goal he gets the more he's likely to stop running back IMO. How he played against Sheffield was perfect.
 

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I just don't get the hype with D Rice.
Iy's always more difficult to judge the potential of defensive midfielders I think, but his stats are good in the PL this season:

4th best tackler
3rd for inteceptions
pass completion 86%

And he's only just 21, players in that position don't tend to peak for a few more years so the potential he is showing in such a poor team is impressive. I think he'd be a great buy if West Ham go down and could really learn from Matic over the next season.
 

Fracture90

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In terms of playing DM - I'd rate Pogba as good.

Pogba is a top player when on form and playing to his strengths. When he plays DM, he's good but not great, just like the others.

I'm not going to turn this thread into another pogba debate like every other.

Point is. for DM, Rice is no better than any player we can put there currently
In that case my bad, i must've overlooked the part where you referred to them as DM's
 

E-mal

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We can fecking do better. Seems like people are obsessed with English/British players. There are midfielders around the world who we could get that would be much better than Rice if we used our scouts properly. They would also be cheaper.
Partey for example!
 

Thisistheone

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Glad this was bumped. I also felt he was fantastic against Spurs. Off the ball has never been an issue for me. Amongst the most tackles and interceptions in the league. On the ball however, you just want that bit more from him, and that was something I certainly saw from him against Spurs.
Yeah felt the same here. I really like him.
 

Njord

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Depends on how we want to set up our midfield. In the classic setup with DM+B2B+AM we currently have:

DM: Matic (Garner)
B2B: Pogba, Mctominay, Fred, (Levitt, Mejbri)
AM: Fernandes, Lingard, Pereira, (Gomes)

If we can play with Pogba + another B2B player, I don't think we need Rice.

If we can't, then we need a player like Rice, but we might also need to reduce our number of B2B players.

We should also look to replace Lingard and Pereira with a better player. If we go for Grealish, who can play B2B as well, there might not be a place for Fred.
 

Svartzonker

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I would have him. He could be a very useful player as he can be a CB in a 532/352 formation.

Playing as a cdm as a 21 yo is tough task and he has playing pretty well. Sure he has alot of development to do, but time is on his side. Matic and Carrick would be great mentors for him.

£40 million if West Ham goes down. Doable.
 
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Pogba has never played DM in his life what are you talking about
So by his logic Declan Rice is better than Pogba xD

Anyway. Pogba played as a deep playmaker on Wednesday & created 4 chances. Fernandes played in an advanced 8 / number 10 role & created one. Yet it’s Fernandes who the media & majority of fans suck off.

Not turning it into a Pogba vs Bruno thing because I love both, but we all need to more consistent with our judgement. I believe many in our fan base downplay Pogba just because they don’t like him or his agent.

And to retort to the guy who thinks Pogba is a “decent solid player” on a similar level to Fred & McTominay when playing deeper, Pogba on his worst day creates more than both on their best. We need to be careful what we wish for because if Pogba leaves & we replace him with Fred or McT as a starter the downgrade is going to be enormous. And I have nothing against those 2, just being honest.
 

Bondi77

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Does Garner play as a DM in the u23s?
He seems to score a lot of goals for a DM
It would be great if we could see a MUTV interview with Carrick and instead of a pass the bucket chuck on what Utd means to him we ask him who at the club looks capable of making a real good fist of being a long term DM and that would go a long way to ending a Groundhog Day topic like this one.
 

seegoblu

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I think one of the benefits for a financially solid club like United in this depressed market is to take advantage of clubs that are in greater distress. This means getting players who otherwise might not be available and/or getting better prices on those players who were always going to be available this summer.

In thinking about the DM role, I don't want another Matic. I want a player who has his best attributes (ability to read the game, expressive passing and a willingness to get stuck in to win the ball back) as well as avoiding his deficiencies (pace, acceleration, consistency).

To me, Rice is too similar to Matic in both the assets and liabilities that he presents. Put Matic's football brain in a more athletic body and that's the candidate for me. While Rice might be available due to West Ham's possible relegation and at a better price than in the past due to the impact of the pandemic (as well as relegation), he's not the right choice.

Is Partey the answer? Zakaria? I don't know as I haven't seen enough of them in games, but I would much prefer them to someone who essentially is Matic mark2.
 

flappyjay

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Is he though? i'd say in our team he plays the perfect role. Not many other players in our squad can do what he did with the pass into Bruno for the 3rd goal.

He's also much better defensively when playing this role, the closer to the goal he gets the more he's likely to stop running back IMO. How he played against Sheffield was perfect.
I actually enjoy him more playing that role. Nothing flashy just using his passes to get the ball quickly to the attacking players. It's seems some people underrate his on Wednesday
 

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Iy's always more difficult to judge the potential of defensive midfielders I think, but his stats are good in the PL this season:

4th best tackler
3rd for inteceptions
pass completion 86%

And he's only just 21, players in that position don't tend to peak for a few more years so the potential he is showing in such a poor team is impressive. I think he'd be a great buy if West Ham go down and could really learn from Matic over the next season.
If I remember correctly morgan s had even better defensive stats the season he joined us. He was first in tackles and interceptions for a midfielder. Thats obviously not bad but it doesn’t mean much either. It’s a totally different job here as we have the ball more. I do think we need a DM to slowly phase Matic out but Matic for most of his time here has been an underrated player. He beats the press. He’s mobile. He regularly makes difficult passes look easy and he can push forward if we need him to. I actually think a fair bit of thought is going to be needed to replace him and if we just stuck Rice in there he could go the way of Morgan easily enough. Saying all that we have a better team now and our midfield is as healthy as it’s been in a long time, it might be easier slot in there now with those attributes and excel.... he’s interesting at a certain price point.
 

Hulme91

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Has all the attributes to take over from Matic in a year or two
Quality player
 

BenitoSTARR

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I haven't watched him too much but whenever I do he seems to have good ball control and passing.

Why do people say he's limited?
Why do people keep saying he's limited on the ball??
I had this exact same argument on the Matic replacement thread and told you he wasn’t limited he was limited by his side. I pointed out his ability to do exactly what hes just done tonight and people were trying to disagree saying he’s no good.

It’s almost like I’ve done my homework on DMs and it’s frustrating when someone who clearly doesn’t watch a player comments on them.

It’s an absolute joke this forum at times because any informed opinion (someone who actually has regularly watched and focussed on a player and has also considered the stats as an element of judgement) is treated the same as any plucked out of thin air or just repeating what’s said on TV.

It’s a real shame as it is so easy to be better informed nowadays.

If people actually spent 5 minutes looking into what a player is actually like it would make a huge difference to discussion and overall post quality.

Edit: To be clear I never post about knowing about a player if I haven’t been following them, who are we trying to impress here? And will openly say when I don’t know so I’m not claiming an encyclopaedic knowledge of football just sometimes people can actually know about certain players.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I had this exact same argument on the Matic replacement thread and told you he wasn’t limited he was limited by his side. I pointed out his ability to do exactly what hes just done tonight and people were trying to disagree saying he’s no good.

It’s almost like I’ve done my homework on DMs and it’s frustrating when someone who clearly doesn’t watch a player comments on them.

It’s an absolute joke this forum at times because any informed opinion (someone who actually has regularly watched and focussed on a player and has also considered the stats as an element of judgement) is treated the same as any plucked out of thin air or just repeating what’s said on TV.

It’s a real shame as it is so easy to be better informed nowadays.

If people actually spent 5 minutes looking into what a player is actually like it would make a huge difference to discussion and overall post quality.

Edit: To be clear I never post about knowing about a player if I haven’t been following them, who are we trying to impress here? And will openly say when I don’t know so I’m not claiming an encyclopaedic knowledge of football just sometimes people can actually know about certain players.
I didn't watch him today just saw his stats. I'm aware he's good defensively but can he build up play and make those forward line breaking passes like Matic?