Declan Rice

[Carl]

It would be a joke for any top club to spend 70m that's touted on him.

Quality holding midfielders are hard to come by, and whoever picks him up will be getting exactly that.

Transfer fees are fecking stupid these days, of course, but he'd get in every Premier League team without question.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I find the dismissiveness towards him here a bit snobbish.

What can he do that Schneiderlin didn’t do/show at Southampton?

People are “snobbish” because they saw that being good defensively and ok on the ball won’t cut it.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

he'd get in every Premier League team without question.

“Without question” my arse.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

What can he do that Schneiderlin didn’t do/show at Southampton?

People are “snobbish” because they saw that being good defensively and ok on the ball won’t cut it.

If Schneiderlin did what he did at Southampton at United we would have had an excellent player. He didn’t step up for whatever reason after he got a big move. What does that have to do with Rice?

 

[Lash]

I find the dismissiveness towards him here a bit snobbish.

He's a very good defensive midfielder, particularly defensively, which is especially rare for young players.

He's good/decent although nothing "special" on the ball, which is adequate for a DM even at top level if they are good enough defensively and in the right set up.

Criticism is over blown though because he's not as smooth or silky as certain DMs who were more deep lying playmakers anyway rather than DMs. However, silks and skills isnt as important as effectiveness. Rice uses his body well to holds opposition off which helps him when being pressed, it may not be as eye catching as someone who silkily twists and turns and dances past an opponent but if its equally effective it doesn't matter. A prime example of how YouTube videos aren't as effective a way to measure a player as, ya know, watching a player in the context of a game.

He's good defensively because he a CB playing in midfield.

No top team is their right mind is paying 50m+ to play him in their midfield.

Your "uses his body well" comment is fine, but it is basic stuff for a DM. There's tonnes of players who do that, you wouldn't go splashing the cash on because they do quite well. He's also a prime example of people looking no further than being English, in the Prem, and young.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Really? Schneiderlin is the 2nd bst DM in the league in my opinion.

Nonsense. He's brilliant. He's nailed on to move in the Summer to a bigger club so I guess we'll see soon enough.

Blind has made a really good start to his United career but Schneiderlin is Carrick's natural sucessor IMO.

Carl’s got previous.

 

[Trequarista10]

What can he do that Schneiderlin didn’t do/show at Southampton?

People are “snobbish” because they saw that being good defensively and ok on the ball won’t cut it.

Casemiro, Kante, Henderson...

There's more than one way to skin a cat. Rice is what 20, 21? Svhneiderlin was probably in League One or Ligue B at that age.

 

[Lash]

Quality holding midfielders are hard to come by, and whoever picks him up will be getting exactly that.

Transfer fees are fecking stupid these days, of course, but he'd get in every Premier League team without question.

Bollocks would he.

Ndidi, Fernandinho, kante/jorginho (tactically), Allan, Hjoberg, Luiz are all better DMs

 

[Zoo]

He’d be a great signing. I hope he thinks twice about moving to Chelsea.

 

[Trequarista10]

He's good defensively because he a CB playing in midfield.

No top team is their right mind is paying 50m+ to play him in their midfield.

Your "uses his body well" comment is fine, but it is basic stuff for a DM. There's tonnes of players who do that, you wouldn't go splashing the cash on because they do quite well. He's also a prime example of people looking no further than being English, in the Prem, and young.

Yes, I think he'd be a good CB at a top club, either in a two or a three. He would also be good as a defensive midfielder at a top clubs in certain set ups, e.g a team with bombing full backs, ball playing centre backs, and alongside a midfielder who is creative.

There are also tonnes of players who have highlight reels where they have a great first touch, dance out of a press and ping a 40 yard pass on a sixpence.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

If Schneiderlin did what he did at Southampton at United we would have had an excellent player. He didn’t step up for whatever reason after he got a big move. What does that have to do with Rice?

Nonsense, he was overrated as feck, as his Everton spell also showed.

 

[Lash]

Yes, I think he'd be a good CB at a top club, either in a two or a three. He would also be good as a defensive midfielder at a top clubs in certain set ups, e.g a team with bombing full backs, ball playing centre backs, and alongside a midfielder who is creative.

There are also tonnes of players who have highlight reels where they have a great first touch, dance out of a press and ping a 40 yard pass on a sixpence.

Yeah, but no one is spending big money on a limited DM. You just openly said he has to play in a certain system to get the best out of him. Why on earth would you spend a huge amount of money on someone who's success depends on setting up the whole team for him to function optimally. That's the moneyball type approach and the reason you do it is so you can buy players cheaper.

 

[Devil may care]

Rice has improved on the ball but he's not near Matic and miles away from Carrick. We know Ole favours 4-2-3-1 and Pogba is off in the summer, our starting #8 options will be Fred and McTominay and perhaps VdB, none of them have the passing range, McTominay and especially VdB have good short passing games, but it means our #6 needs to be expansive on the ball, Rice just isn't that, his passing is ok but he's primarily a ball winner and suits playing next to a playmaking #8, which we don't have and won't be getting this summer.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Nonsense, he was overrated as feck, as his Everton spell also showed.

I disagree. He was excellent for Southampton. Hence why he was in a strong French national squad at the time. Countless players only have one or two seasons at their best level for various reasons. Schneiderlin’s career path has zero bearing on Rice’s. I don’t see your point as making any sense at all.

 

[Trequarista10]

You just openly said he has to play in a certain system to get the best out of him.

Thats the case for the majority of players, including most of our own midfielders. McTominay and Fred both have tenacity but aren't good as the most defensive midfielder nor as the creator. Pogba is great on the ball but needs a disciplined defensive midfielder next to him. Matic has the discipline and talent on the ball but not the legs.

I've not made one comment on his transfer fee.

 

[Carl]

Carl’s got previous.

I fecking loved Morgan. Thought he'd be incredible. Was buzzing when we signed him.

 

[Oldyella]

Nonsense, he was overrated as feck, as his Everton spell also showed.

Think we broke him tbh. He bottled playing on the bigger stage and never recovered.

 

[Lash]

Thats the case for the majority of players, including most of our own midfielders. McTominay and Fred both have tenacity but aren't good as the most defensive midfielder nor as the creator. Pogba is great on the ball but needs a disciplined defensive midfielder next to him. Matic has the discipline and talent on the ball but not the legs.

I've not made one comment on his transfer fee.

Well no, because Rice needs ball playing CBs, attacking wingbacks and a partner in midfield on the ball, by your admission. Taking Pogba, he just needs a decent partner and Matic is just long in the tooth. He still plays at a higher level than Rice.

You're in a transfer thread and asking why people are dismissing him. The transfer fee is pretty much paramount to the discussion. If he was 25m, I'd be well on board. I think he's a CB personally, but would take a punt on him in the DM at that price.

 

[MU655]

In terms of passing, he has the joint third-highest passing accuracy. Not much between him, Fred, Hojbjerg, and Kante.

Passing Success %: Rodrigo (90.9%), Matic (90.6%), Rice (87.6%), Hojbjerg (87.6%), Kante (87.5%), Fred (87%).

He is the third most creative defensive midfielder in the league.

% of passes per game that is a key pass: Phillips (1.9%), Neves (1.7%), Rice (1.6%), Fred (1.4%), Romeu (1.4%), Kante (1.3%), Rodri (0.9%)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tackles per game
Romeu (3.5), Allan (3.4), Kante (2.9), Phillips (2.9), Hojbjerg (2.8), Fred (2.7), Neves (2.3), Rice (1.9)

Interceptions per game
Kante (2.3), Rice (2.1), Jorginho (1.6), Fred (1.6), Neves (1.6)

Total tackles and interceptions per game
Kante (5.2), Romeu (5), Phillips (4.6), Allan (4.4), Fred (4.3), Hojbjerg (4), Rice (4), Neves (3.9)

On a side note, this Zakaria that people go on about. 2.1 tackles per game; 1.6 interceptions. Total 3.7 tackles and interceptions per game. 24 years old.

Don't really get how anyone can propose Zakaria as being so much better. The only area he exceeds him in is marginally through tackling, but only by 0.2 per game.

Dribbling wise, Zakaria had 2 per game last season compared to Rice's 1.1 this season. Is this worth sacrificing defensive ability, though? I mean, there is no guarantee he would be able to replicate it in the Premier League. This season Zakaria only has 0.9 per game.

Rice is also the youngest at 21. A lot of the highest DMs are between 27 and 30, and he is already closing on them. He is a very promising player who could go on to be the best in the Premier League.

Also, these stats show that Fred is massively underrated, anyway. The only reason I wouldn't sign Rice is that he isn't anywhere near a priority. I think McTominay's position is the one we need a signing in. A proper midfielder in that position will do us wonders.

 

[Carl]

Nonsense, he was overrated as feck, as his Everton spell also showed.

Not saying you're wrong, but sometimes moves just don't work out. Plenty better players than Morgan have failed upon moving clubs and never really recovered.

 

[Trequarista10]

Well no, because Rice needs ball playing CBs, attacking wingbacks and a partner in midfield on the ball, by your admission. Taking Pogba, he just needs a decent partner and Matic is just long in the tooth. He still plays at a higher level than Rice.

You're in a transfer thread and asking why people are dismissing him. The transfer fee is pretty much paramount to the discussion. If he was 25m, I'd be well on board. I think he's a CB personally, but would take a punt on him in the DM at that price.

You're being a bit pedantic tbh. I never said "need", I said he'd shine in the right set up, and gave the perfect example. You don't need perfection.

Obviously however a DM needs to be partnered with a creative midfielder, and vice versa. I don't see the relevance of your point here. Even the best midfielders who excel at both will have a partner that benefits them. Not many midfielders can alternate between being the defensive enforcer and the creative force of a team with ease and excel in both roles. I would also say Pogba may need more than "just" a decent partner. At Juve he played in a 3 man midfield with 5 defenders, for France he has predominantly played alongside Kante AND also had Matuidi putting in a shift next to him on the wing, and a left back/wingback bombing forward on the overlap. I would however say Rice is pretty much the perfect midfielder partner for Pogba in a midfield two. He'd be a disastourous partner for McTominay or Fred though, unless we sold our full backs and signed full backs who can attack.

 

[TheReligion]

What can he do that Schneiderlin didn’t do/show at Southampton?

People are “snobbish” because they saw that being good defensively and ok on the ball won’t cut it.

What's this got to do with Declan Rice?

I'm not seeing your point.

 

[Lash]

You're being a bit pedantic tbh. I never said "need", I said he'd shine in the right set up, and gave the perfect example. You don't need perfection.

Obviously however a DM needs to be partnered with a creative midfielder, and vice versa. I don't see the relevance of your point here. Even the best midfielders who excel at both will have a partner that benefits them. Not many midfielders can alternate between being the defensive enforcer and the creative force of a team with ease and excel in both roles. I would also say Pogba may need more than "just" a decent partner. At Juve he played in a 3 man midfield with 5 defenders, for France he has predominantly played alongside Kante AND also had Matuidi putting in a shift next to him on the wing, and a left back/wingback bombing forward on the overlap. I would however say Rice is pretty much the perfect midfielder partner for Pogba in a midfield two. He'd be a disastourous partner for McTominay or Fred though, unless we sold our full backs and signed full backs who can attack.

Ok maybe slightly pedantic, but my point being you could level that at a lot of players all over Europe. If you're going to set up that way anyway, Rice isnt really anything spectacular that warrants much attention and his shortcomings are a good reason to dismiss him as a signing - unless he was a bargain, which he won't be.

 

[hobbers]

Rice would be an even bigger disappointment for the money than AWB and Maguire.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

What's this got to do with Declan Rice?

I'm not seeing your point.

Rice has similar qualities to the Frenchman, in fact, he looks worse on the ball.
Just as Morgan showed, Rice’s lack of quality on the ball will be shown up when he goes up a level.

 

[davidmichael]

I never understand the argument of “we’ve got McTominay so we don’t need ......” seeing as McTominay nor Fred are pure out and out defensive midfielders and never will be, Matic is the only one we have and he lacks mobility and stamina.

People ask why Fernandes and Pogba don’t play together with Matic between them and it’s because Matic doesn’t have the legs to do the dirty work and allow Fernandes and Pogba to do their thing, having Pogba sit deep also takes away his natural game whilst he can sometimes be a defensive liability.

We play McTominay and Fred together in big games because of their ball winning ability and the fact they work well together, that’s all good in a tight game but not in games that park the bus against us and when Fernandes and Pogba both playing is needed.

Maybe Rice isn’t the answer BUT someone in that particular role is needed and neither McTominay or Fred are going to be that type of player, until we’ve got someone like Rice who has a great engine whilst doing the dirty work to allow Fernandes and Pogba or whoever replaces Pogba to do their thing further forward we shouldn’t expect to swat teams aside so if we’re happy to be pragmatic then fine but if not then someone like Rice is very much needed.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I fecking loved Morgan. Thought he'd be incredible. Was buzzing when we signed him.

And you weren’t alone, the general consensus was that it was a great signing.
After that lesson though, I want a much better footballer for that position, someone who’s excellent on the ball, Rice, like Morgan, is not.

 

[pablotatt]

If the Rice appeal is because he can play CB as well, might as well go for Ben White.

 

[dutchred]

In England you seem to really overrate your players. Tuen Koopmeiners is so much better and wpuld not cost a fortune. Laet Declan go to Chelsea which is his dream.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

In England you seem to really overrate your players. Tuen Koopmeiners is so much better and wpuld not cost a fortune. Laet Declan go to Chelsea which is his dream.

I’ve been banging the Koop drum for years now and only recently have people started taking it more seriously.

Glad to see someone else has eyes outside the PL.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

In England you seem to really overrate your players. Tuen Koopmeiners is so much better and wpuld not cost a fortune. Laet Declan go to Chelsea which is his dream.

Nar, we overrate players in the Prem rather than English players.
Schneiderlin a perfect example.

 

[Kag]

He isn’t remotely good enough on the ball.

We need what Matic brings us in terms of composure and passing through the lines but somebody who is younger and athletic. I’m asking for a player of McTominay’s athleticism and mobility who is great positionally and can ping a ball. Rice isn’t that player.

In truth, I’m not even sure this player exists, which is why I’d want a player closer to Carrick, or Thiago, or Modric when he was shifted deeper. We need a player who can really get his foot on the ball in there and knock it about a bit. One who can still get stuck in and put himself about when push comes to shove.

Declan Rice is so far away from that player unless the intention is to play with a destroyer at the base of midfield. Ole isn’t really about that.

 

[dutchred]

Nar, we overrate players in the Prem rather than English players.
Schneiderlin a perfect example.

I meant players playing in England

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I meant players playing in England

No doubt.

 

[Red_Orchestra]

I'd prefer Koopmeiners, but I actually wouldn't mind Declan Rice to be honest. He's a tough player who can take a hit, he never misses a game. I don't ever remember him being injured, knock on wood.

 

[croadyman]

I'd prefer Koopmeiners, but I actually wouldn't mind Declan Rice to be honest. He's a tough player who can take a hit, he never misses a game. I don't ever remember him being injured, knock on wood.

Have seen this guys name being touted about quite a bit but feels like Utd have no interest in even scouting him

 

[Dante]

Have seen this guys name being touted about quite a bit but feels like Utd have no interest in even scouting him

He was utterly pedestrian in the two matches we played against Alkmaar last season. You'd think if we were interested, something would have been mentioned by now.

 

[mav_9me]

I think he is very good but what's the point of going for him for 70-80m when you get equally good DM in Europe for 30-40m?

 

[Isotope]

So he may cost as much as Grealish?

 

[FortBoyard]

Maybe it's just me, but when I have seen Rice this year he has been silky on the ball. Can dribble well, decent passing range.

Based on the comments in this thread I must have caught him on good days?