Declan Rice

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I'm sure with United's vast scouting network they can draw up a decent list.
But to be fair if it's a scouting system that has found a different player to the ones nearly all the football fans on here know then the player is most likely young and not ready and also not known.

I.e this happened with Caiceidos links to United. Is he the right guy for United right now over someone like Rice? I'm not sure.

Out of the ones off the top of my head - playmakers/tempo setters maybe Kalvin Phillips, Locatelli and Ruben Neves. Players that are similar maybe be Marco's Llorente or Tielemans (the latter I hardly see dictating play rather than scoring a goal further up the pitch).

The tempo setters are not particularly blooming out within the players available and ball winners tend to be used in most teams except maybe kimmich.
 
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Fair, but count the number of times a LFC or Man City midfielder lose the ball in that area of the pitch.
City never because their coach has drilled possession football into their heads. The last manager we had who hated loading poession easy was utterly hated by our fans though ...


Liverpool use it as a trap to trigger their geggen pressing
 
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Fair, but count the number of times a LFC or Man City midfielder lose the ball in that area of the pitch.
City never because their coach has drilled possession football into their heads. The last manage we had who hated loading poession easy was utterly hated by our fans though ...


Liverpool use it as a trap to trigger their geggen pressing
 

andersj

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City never because their coach has drilled possession football into their heads.
That might be the case for City. But very few top teams give away the ball in the manner we did on that goal. Our midfielders do it quite often.

Fergusons Man Utd was not possession-based either, but players like Fletcher, Carrick, Scholes and Keane «never» gave away the ball like that. It is not just a system thing, it is also down to individual quality and mentality.

In my opinion, it is just as big a problem as Lindelof jumping like a fool for a ball he clearly will not reach (and even worse, AWB ballwatching and not knowing what is happening around him).
 

Adam-Utd

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Bissouma is just as good and would cost 1/3 of the price.
 
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That might be the case for City. But very few top teams give away the ball in the manner we did on that goal. Our midfielders do it quite often.

Fergusons Man Utd was not possession-based either, but players like Fletcher, Carrick, Scholes and Keane «never» gave away the ball like that. It is not just a system thing, it is also down to individual quality and mentality.

In my opinion, it is just as big a problem as Lindelof jumping like a fool for a ball he clearly will not reach (and even worse, AWB ballwatching and not knowing what is happening around him).
But that is a mentality thing. When our players are 100 percent switched on they don't carelessly give away the ball. Instilling a 110% at all times mentality still lacks in this team. That is why often when asked who the one player he'd like to add to this team. Ole always refers to Keane due to his leadership.

We still do to have that commanding personality in the first XI who is an 7-8/10 ever week whilst demanding the best out of everyone in pitch.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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I agree with a lot of it. And I will admit that you might be right that a DM should not be a priority. But I do think Rice would be a significant upgrade on both Fred and McTominay. I dont think any of them is a natural DM, and I do think Rice is. I also think one reason we play them next to eachother is that they complement eachother very well. Both of them has certain limitation making them less suited for playing DM.

In Freds case, he is very reactive and not disciplined enough in his positioning. I also think he is too weak physically (can be bullied in a one on one) and too prone to error. I also feel he lacks awareness or the ability to sense/understand where there will be danger (a bit silly, but a few players do, like an invert goalgetter). I would prefer him a bit higher up the pitch.

McTominay, on the other hand, is very good defensively. Rarely f*cks up too. But IMO he is not a very good passer of the ball. He spends a bit too much time with the ball and is not good enough in the build-up phase. I also think he could be an attacking threat if we get to move him a bit higher up the pitch.

I do think we often move McTominay deeper since he has the physical presence and «defensive awareness» that Fred lack. Fred, on the other hand, is better when we try to play out from the back as he is more efficient in his passing and the way he use the ball.

In my opinion, Rice is wellrounded and complete DM. Off the ball he is great; he has very good awareness, good physical presence and is very disciplined in his positioning. I also think he is a good passer and good technically. He would have to start offering more going forward, but I do think he has the potential to do that. I’m also unsure of his pace, but I’ve never seen it tested either.

Furthermore, I would not be that worried if we played Rice next to Fred/McT. I would really like to see both of them a bit higher up the pitch. I agree they dont create much going forward and lack a bit of flair, but they have other qualities that we could make better use of higher up the pitch.

And I’m not sure their lack of flair is a problem. Looking at Liverpool last year, I dont think Winjaldum or Fabinho created much either. Same with Chelsea a few years back when they played with Kante/Matic infront of three defenders. We have also seen Man City play a 3231 where the «3+2» offered very little going forward.

Our main focus for next season should be to add symmetry to our team by improving the RB and the RW. That would offer us more flair and creativity going forward and makes us a lot better attacking wise.
Really good post this is.

Regards the other qualities McTominay and Fred have, I can certainly see McTominay using his physicality and aerial dominance to get in the box and cause havoc - similar to what Soucek does at West Ham. With Rice behind him, he has that solid base behind him to do so.

Fred, whilst not the goal threat of McTominay, has the ability to win the ball high up the pitch. That being said, if we were to purchase Rice, then I think Fred, more often than not, would be back up to Rice, with Pogba and McTominay sharing the box to box role.
 
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Jericholyte2

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Surely, surely, with Lingard doing well whilst on loan we must be able to work some sort of deal out for the two? Would Lingard and £30m be enough do we think in the Covid-economy?
 

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Surely, surely, with Lingard doing well whilst on loan we must be able to work some sort of deal out for the two? Would Lingard and £30m be enough do we think in the Covid-economy?
There is a lot of talk that Rice isn't interested in moving north, but I doubt West Ham would accept that bid either way
 

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There is a lot of talk that Rice isn't interested in moving north, but I doubt West Ham would accept that bid either way
With Lingard valued at around 20M, I think a 40M bid plus Lingard would be enough. I don't think West Ham, given the circumstances, can demand much more than that.

I think the loan of Lingard was a sweetener, too. Hopefully, that allows any potential discussions between the two clubs to run smoothly.
 

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With Lingard valued at around 20M, I think a 40M bid plus Lingard would be enough. I don't think West Ham, given the circumstances, can demand much more than that.

I think the loan of Lingard was a sweetener, too. Hopefully, that allows any potential discussions between the two clubs to run smoothly.
Agreed on price. And if Lingard fancies staying there then it’s a sweetener
 

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Stay well clear, they think they will win the lottery by selling this absolutely bang average player.

Let’s not be the ones stupid enough line their pockets for a midfielder no better than McTominay.
 

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Can we really afford to pay top dollar for players from this league that are valued at ridiculous prices? Surely with some scouting we could get cheaper alternatives.
 

Paolo Di Canio

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Can we really afford to pay top dollar for players from this league that are valued at ridiculous prices? Surely with some scouting we could get cheaper alternatives.
This, will probably be a good chunk of our summer budget for another player not a huge improvement on what we already have
 

CM10

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Can we really afford to pay top dollar for players from this league that are valued at ridiculous prices? Surely with some scouting we could get cheaper alternatives.
Same way I feel. Incremental improvement on McTominay or Fred possibly but this is a position that doesn't really require that kind of outlay and is money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Ultimately I don't think the club will go for Rice but I would be disappointed if we did.
 

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Same way I feel. Incremental improvement on McTominay or Fred possibly but this is a position that doesn't really require that kind of outlay and is money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Ultimately I don't think the club will go for Rice but I would be disappointed if we did.
I thought Fred ran rings around them twice this season at Old Trafford. I don’t see Rice for 50/60 million plus Jesse as taking us to the next level but tactically we do 100% need at least one player who’ll sit in and try and dictate from deep. Hopefully we can find someone cheaper.
 

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He’s getting severely underrated in here.
I don't think so. The opposite in fact. He's not the answer to our problems, he's not going to turn us into a title winning team, so why would should we spend north of £50m on him? That's also likely to be conservative as well. Didn't they turn down 35/45m for Diop?
 

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Ndidi is a superior player and more what we need to partner Pogba if he is staying. He'd be cheaper too.
 

SwedishFish

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Moyes will drive Rice out of a race for another season. I could see Moyes walk if they don't get a massive offer for him.

Inevitably it will mainly affect Rice's career because this might be one of those trains that you only ever have one chance to get on.

He's clearly talented but also massively overpriced compared to his ability.
 

theklr

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Same way I feel. Incremental improvement on McTominay or Fred possibly but this is a position that doesn't really require that kind of outlay and is money that can be better spent elsewhere.

Ultimately I don't think the club will go for Rice but I would be disappointed if we did.
Neither Fred nor McT is a true DM, with Rice in we can play both Pogba/VdB and Fernandes against any team, not just the bottom fodder. If that mid gels its top 3 mid in PL
 

theklr

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Ndidi is a superior player and more what we need to partner Pogba if he is staying. He'd be cheaper too.
how will Ndidi be cheaper? Leicester is on route for CL, and they dont exactly sell cheap... is he on outgoing contract?
 

bosnian_red

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Ndidi is a superior player and more what we need to partner Pogba if he is staying. He'd be cheaper too.
Not sure what gives you the impression that Ndidi would be cheaper. Neither one of them would be cheap, but Ndidi as you say is far superior but Leicester are also richer and have sold plenty of players recently so don't need to sell. Also regularly in Europe these days. Neither are all that realistic, Rice more so probably.
 

CM10

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Neither Fred nor McT is a true DM, with Rice in we can play both Pogba/VdB and Fernandes against any team, not just the bottom fodder. If that mid gels its top 3 mid in PL
Is that worth £80m or however much West Ham would want for him? Not for me. We don't have unlimited funds so I'd much rather see that money go towards a high quality forward, be that a striker or a right winger (preferably both, albeit unlikely).

Rice has done well for West Ham this season but I don't see him as any kind of integral signing. There are alternatives out there who will be far more reasonably priced.
 

theklr

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Is that worth £80m or however much West Ham would want for him? Not for me. We don't have unlimited funds so I'd much rather see that money go towards a high quality forward, be that a striker or a right winger (preferably both, albeit unlikely).

Rice has done well for West Ham this season but I don't see him as any kind of integral signing. There are alternatives out there who will be far more reasonably priced.
I agree that more than 60M would be too much for him, I just disagree strongly that he is merely an incremental upgrade on McT or Fred in that role. If we got him we would get so much more options in midfield simply because we dont need to play McFred whenever we face a quality team. And thats most of the reason so many of our top 6 matches were draws. So he gives us alot more attacking options.