Said in another thread, I think for a position like his, it's worth shopping in the EPL as there are no other leagues that match its pace and physicality. Hard to judge CDMs from other leagues.For the fee West 'am would want, I think there would be better options in other leagues around Europe.
I'd prefer Koopmeiners too. His technique and range of passing is far better than Rice's
If we sign Rice and Sancho you can say it's 4 birds with 2 stones. Rice can cover for both CB and DM. Sancho will be our RW and can play AM. So he can cover for Bruno when Bruno is out and Greenwood has proven to be a solid RW so he takes Sancho's spot when Sancho is covering for Bruno. This is why I'd prefer we were linked with Sancho and Rice(as long as his passing is improving) or another DM instead of Sancho and GrealishI cannot see how West Ham sell him for under £40m. Signing him could kill 2 birds next season. If we got him, he could be cover for Matic and get a few starts as well as cover for CB in case we need him to. This way, we do not need to sign a CB this window.
However; we do need a RW and a AM as a higher priority.
I agree with what you are saying, this league is pretty difficult to get used to especially if you don't have the physical attributes to help you. Getting him from West Ham won't be easy but would be doable especially if we tap him up and are prepared to pay a fee upwards of £50m.Said in another thread, I think for a position like his, it's worth shopping in the EPL as there are no other leagues that match its pace and physicality. Hard to judge CDMs from other leagues.
If they go down, it could happen. If they stay up, not a chance.
*Edit - I didn't realise he was still so young!
The best CDMs in the PL currently came to the PL from the following:Said in another thread, I think for a position like his, it's worth shopping in the EPL as there are no other leagues that match its pace and physicality. Hard to judge CDMs from other leagues.
If they go down, it could happen. If they stay up, not a chance.
*Edit - I didn't realise he was still so young!
Agreed, I definitely have seen a marked improvement, but the football post lockdown isn't a fair representation of the same sort of standard prior.He's looked much better in the games post-lockdown and has developed his game to more than just tackling/shielding/intercepting. People were saying he was limited on the ball because before lockdown he was, he wasn't playing nice forward balls or playing as positively as he is now, he had a poor passing range but he's shown differently post-lockdown. Let's see if it continues though before getting too carried away.
I agree, ideally all 3 would be great but not a chance we do that. We will be lucky to get one of them.If we sign Rice and Sancho you can say it's 4 birds with 2 stones. Rice can cover for both CB and DM. Sancho will be our RW and can play AM. So he can cover for Bruno when Bruno is out and Greenwood has proven to be a solid RW so he takes Sancho's spot when Sancho is covering for Bruno. This is why I'd prefer we were linked with Sancho and Rice or another DM instead of Sancho and Grealish
I agree. Hard to judge players in many positions from abroad and especially CDM.Said in another thread, I think for a position like his, it's worth shopping in the EPL as there are no other leagues that match its pace and physicality. Hard to judge CDMs from other leagues.
If they go down, it could happen. If they stay up, not a chance.
*Edit - I didn't realise he was still so young!
Can he set up counter attacks the way Matic and Carrick can/could? Can he consistently find good forward passes in to our 2 more attacking mids when they are in to space? Maybe i under rate him but i don't see him having this in his locker.I actually think he'd be a very good signing for us. He potentially gives cover for 2 of our weaker positions and is a much better all-round footballer than many on here give him credit for. Someone chucked out a lazy Eric Dier comparison about a year ago and it seems that comparison has stuck with a few posters. If you watch him play he's pretty composed, reads the game very well, is powerful - and at 21 - has plenty of room for improvement.
I think there's no better time to get a young DM than now. Matic is performing but he's not getting any younger. It would be a smooth transition for the DM we bring in, learning from Matic before taking over. The DM is such a tricky role and takes time to adapt. Get a young DM to adapt and learn from an ageing Matic now while he's still putting up solid performances.The best CDMs in the PL currently came to the PL from the following:
* Could argue he’s a CM
- Ndidi - KRC Genk - Belgium
- Fernandinho - Shakhtar Donetsk - Ukraine
- Fabinho - AS Monaco - France
- Kante*- SM Caen - France
- Matic** - MFK Kosice (FC VSS Kosice) - Slovakia
** Could argue he proved himself at Benfica
It’s not hard to judge if you know what to look for. The last great CDM purely from English leagues was probably Carrick? I don’t think that suggests to me British is best.
Eric Dier had an extremely good season as a DM in a system that worked with Poch when they pushed for the league. I think the comparison is quite a good one and not in a bad way. Dier was originally a CB and got pushed into there and performed well, but injuries, and he sort of hit his ceiling in that position. It's questionable whether Rice will just continually improve in a linear fashion that position, because it's a role they've only started playing in the last few years. I'm pretty sure most of their schooling has been done as CB - might be wrong, but that certainly what he was when he broke through.I actually think he'd be a very good signing for us. He potentially gives cover for 2 of our weaker positions and is a much better all-round footballer than many on here give him credit for. Someone chucked out a lazy Eric Dier comparison about a year ago and it seems that comparison has stuck with a few posters. If you watch him play he's pretty composed, reads the game very well, is powerful - and at 21 - has plenty of room for improvement.
Yes this is the concern. But then these players are SO rare at the moment.Can he set up counter attacks the way Matic and Carrick can/could? Can he consistently find good forward passes in to our 2 more attacking mids when they are in to space? Maybe i under rate him but i don't see him having this in his locker.
Yep. It took us years to find Carrick after Keane. Garner seems to have this but i don't know about his defensive play.Yes this is the concern. But then these players are SO rare at the moment.
The ones that can are established players at big teams.
Would have the same concern with a player like Partey. Can he play quick balls forward into the attacking players?
Tricky position to get right.
Partey does this. He's easily the most proven DM/CM we could getYes this is the concern. But then these players are SO rare at the moment.
The ones that can are established players at big teams.
Would have the same concern with a player like Partey. Can he play quick balls forward into the attacking players?
Tricky position to get right.
He's getting increasingly adept at finding a forward pass, although I wouldn't say it's his speciality - as it was with those 2. He's comfortable on the ball, rarely wastes it over short distances and plays a good long pass out wide. Breaking the lines with longer passes is something he needs to add to his game, for sure. But, he's 21, so has time on his side. Also, he's standing out in a poor West Ham side, I'm sure he'd improve among a better quality of player.Can he set up counter attacks the way Matic and Carrick can/could? Can he consistently find good forward passes in to our 2 more attacking mids when they are in to space? Maybe i under rate him but i don't see him having this in his locker.
Yeah, you're right but I think the Dier comparisons are less about the 1 good season he had with Spurs and more about his failure to progress.Eric Dier had an extremely good season as a DM in a system that worked with Poch when they pushed for the league. I think the comparison is quite a good one and not in a bad way. Dier was originally a CB and got pushed into there and performed well, but injuries, and he sort of hit his ceiling in that position. It's questionable whether Rice will just continually improve in a linear fashion that position, because it's a role they've only started playing in the last few years. I'm pretty sure most of their schooling has been done as CB - might be wrong, but that certainly what he was when he broke through.
Yea 100% the same for me. McTominay, if anything, brings more than Rice. I watched Rice last night and thought he wasn't very adventurous, just played a nice safe game, he would have fit in well under LvG. What I took away is he is a decent player, but he's no Man Utd player, and never will be.I don't see anything he brings that Fred/Mctominay don't already tbh.
He's a huffer and puffer but do we really need to spend 50/60m to get that? not for me.
I'm sure he will improve a lot considering he's only 20 but he isn't ready for us yet IMO.
Then he’s the one to go for. It’s a position that is vital really, especially if we manage to retain Pogba.Partey does this. He's easily the most proven DM/CM we could get
That's probably true.He's getting increasingly adept at finding a forward pass, although I wouldn't say it's his speciality - as it was with those 2. He's comfortable on the ball, rarely wastes it over short distances and plays a good long pass out wide. Breaking the lines with longer passes is something he needs to add to his game, for sure. But, he's 21, so has time on his side. Also, he's standing out in a poor West Ham side, I'm sure he'd improve among a better quality of player.
Yeah, you're right but I think the Dier comparisons are less about the 1 good season he had with Spurs and more about his failure to progress.
Who knows, if Rice came, he might just supplant Lindelof and play the odd game at DM as cover. I'd be more than happy to see him here in that capacity, as I think Lindelof is a bit of a weak link anyway. So, worst case scenario, we've got a potentially top CB pairing, some added versatility and plenty of scope for progression.
Garner is too young and unproven to be considered as our DM so there's a lot of question marks around him but he can easily play CM if he comes good. Mctominay for me is a box to box. His best ability is his energy and intensity and knows how to drive the ball forward.Then he’s the one to go for. It’s a position that is vital really, especially if we manage to retain Pogba.
The good we’ve seen recently could be massively hampered with a substandard Matic replacement.
It does pose the question about McTominay and Garner though. Can either of those grow into that role as a starter for United?
If we can then I’d still get the finished article to save any stalling of the on field improvement we’re seeing.
IMO it’s one of those key decisions that can make or break a teams progression and potentially a managers time at a club, get it wrong and miss out on the perfect player (if there is one) and Matic suffers another fatigued patch of form then it has a big impact - in a season where Ole needs to challenge for top honours.
Well we spent, what £40m ish on Lindelof, so I wouldn't expect to get him for less than £50m. There are so many ifs and buts though, ie our budget and transfer priorities, West Ham's relegation battle, where he sees himself playing long-term. As I said, I'd like him here but a lot could happen between now and the end of the window. I definitely think his next move will be to a top club, though. Whether that's this summer or later, we'll see.That's probably true.
I would love him as our CB, he's very good on the ball for a CB, athletic and very good defensively as well. I'm not sold on spending all the money on him to put into a DM position.
I love McTom but his passing and creativity is not good enough for an 8 if we want to go for the title. The defensive game he could learn though.Garner is too young and unproven to be considered as our DM so there's a lot of question marks around him but he can easily play CM if he comes good. Mctominay for me is a box to box. His best ability is his energy and intensity and knows how to drive the ball forward.
I might be wrong but I think the club has a plan with Mctominay. I think they want him to be Matic's replacement. Remember he was first choice earlier this season and was playing Matic's role being paired with Pogba in a double pivot. The pairing was easily the worst out of other double pivot pairings we've seen ( Fred and Mctominay, Fred and Matic, Matic and Pogba). It just wasn't balanced. Maybe that could be based on a few things like the team not clicking then, playing with Lingard as AM, Mctominay still adapting to the role etc.
I'm of the opinion the club sees Mctominay as Matic's replacement even though I personally don't want that. This would also explain why we've hardly been linked with any DMs and the Grealish links. I think the club probably wants this:
First choice
.......Bruno.....
Matic......Pogba
Second choice
............Grealish.......
Mctominay.... Fred
He's an 8 but an average one. Pogba and Fred are ahead of him in the pecking order. The 6 role/Matic role is what I think the club is trying to make him play. I don't know if that would work thoughI love McTom but his passing and creativity is not good enough for an 8 if we want to go for the title. The defensive game he could learn though.
Drinkwater isn't a physically imposing player he was decent in a midfield where Kante was on a one man mission. Rice is much better than Dier, has a better understanding of the game, reads the play well and breaks up play efficiently. He's shown more versatility on the ball since coming back from the lockdown, maybe him playing with better players will exemplify his capabilities more, I believe one his teammates admitted this in an interview.Buying English might actually be a bigger risk considering the money involved. Drinkwater and Dier come to mind, two absolutely average players who looked good for a short while because they are big and physical.
Not seen enough of Rice to be sure he belongs in that group though.
If Matic continues his good form, I could see us going into next season without a new DM. We'd have a full season to assess the situation and our options before making a decision. Rice is improving, some of the young DMs in Europe would have an extra season under their belt, and Phillips will most likely perform in the top flight next season too. I think we are in a good position right now.Then he’s the one to go for. It’s a position that is vital really, especially if we manage to retain Pogba.
The good we’ve seen recently could be massively hampered with a substandard Matic replacement.
It does pose the question about McTominay and Garner though. Can either of those grow into that role as a starter for United?
If we can then I’d still get the finished article to save any stalling of the on field improvement we’re seeing.
IMO it’s one of those key decisions that can make or break a teams progression and potentially a managers time at a club, get it wrong and miss out on the perfect player (if there is one) and Matic suffers another fatigued patch of form then it has a big impact - in a season where Ole needs to challenge for top honours.
Imo, passing completion is a poor way to judge a player's passing ability.
I agree with you too - it was more a response to a post about how the Liverpool midfielders have a pass completion of 85% or more and I believe that pass completion can not only be affected by a players intention to potentially safe pass - but also the tactical system of a team that increases the midfielders stats of passing accuracy.Agreed, it tells me he is a very safe passer. Tom Cleveley probably has strong passing stats.
Yeah, all the signals from the club is that this is their current strategy. Unless West Ham drops down and we can get him cheaper.If Matic continues his good form, I could see us going into next season without a new DM. We'd have a full season to assess the situation and our options before making a decision. Rice is improving, some of the young DMs in Europe would have an extra season under their belt, and Phillips will most likely perform in the top flight next season too. I think we are in a good position right now.
Exactly what I think we are doing. I think we were done with looking for DMs this season after Matic extended. The plan is to probably to see how Mctominay does in that role this season and the next and judge whether he can take over from Matic before making the decision to get a DMIf Matic continues his good form, I could see us going into next season without a new DM. We'd have a full season to assess the situation and our options before making a decision. Rice is improving, some of the young DMs in Europe would have an extra season under their belt, and Phillips will most likely perform in the top flight next season too. I think we are in a good position right now.
Not only that, we will probably monitor the young CDM's around Europe who are not ready. The likes of Tonali, Cammavinga, Rice, Zakaria etc.Exactly what I think we are doing. I think we were done with looking for DMs this season after Matic extended. The plan is to probably to see how Mctominay does in that role this season and the next and judge whether he can take over from Matic before making the decision to get a DM
Sancho and Ndidi.If we sign Rice and Sancho you can say it's 4 birds with 2 stones. Rice can cover for both CB and DM. Sancho will be our RW and can play AM. So he can cover for Bruno when Bruno is out and Greenwood has proven to be a solid RW so he takes Sancho's spot when Sancho is covering for Bruno. This is why I'd prefer we were linked with Sancho and Rice(as long as his passing is improving) or another DM instead of Sancho and Grealish
Despite of playing in struggling team, he's still the team's best player. At such a young age also already become a vice captain. If we are just talking about players around his age, I don't think there are that many players are better than him.Declan Rice is ok and maybe a 7 out of 10 performer in a struggling team however I feel sure there are better players out there than him. This is nothing against him personally or indeed the Hammers either for that matter as I quite like West Ham and certainly the passion of their fan base but he is not the answer to our problems and I would be slightly disappointed in we pursued him further in the summer or the end of the current campaign.
I don't see the point in a CB now that no one is available that you can call a big upgrade on LindelofDespite of playing in struggling team, he's still the team's best player. At such a young age also already become a vice captain. If we are just talking about players around his age, I don't think there are that many players are better than him.
However, I do agree at this point, we don't need him because I don't think we need to sign DM at the moment, we've plenty option in that position that deserve their chance next season. The focus should be on RW first and then a CB this summer.
Let's just imagine what will happen if Maguire got injured or if we want to rest Maguire. Signing CB won't hurt other position but provide much more benefits for the team. And whether we are going to sign the direct upgrade of Lindelof or someone with potential in the next 1-2 years to take his spot, end of the day it's the same thing.I don't see the point in a CB now that no one is available that you can call a big upgrade on Lindelof
I'd say the same with Matic. There's no clear choice to replace him if he got injured or we want to rest him. I'd back Maguire to be available every game over Matic too.Let's just imagine what will happen if Maguire got injured or if we want to rest Maguire. Signing CB won't hurt other position but provide much more benefits for the team. And whether we are going to sign the direct upgrade of Lindelof or someone with potential in the next 1-2 years to take his spot, end of the day it's the same thing.
Disagree. I see Matic, Scott & Fred can be part of the rotation.I'd say the same with Matic. There's no clear choice to replace him if he got injured or we want to rest him. I'd back Maguire to be available every game over Matic too.
Imagine what happens when Matic injuresLet's just imagine what will happen if Maguire got injured or if we want to rest Maguire. Signing CB won't hurt other position but provide much more benefits for the team. And whether we are going to sign the direct upgrade of Lindelof or someone with potential in the next 1-2 years to take his spot, end of the day it's the same thing.
We'll be fine. We have Fred & Scott to take in charge.Imagine what happens when Matic injures
