Just looks like a centre back in midfield to me, give it 2 years people will be scratching their heads at how he’s ever been valued at £80m.
Declan Rice
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We could either get Rice for £80-100m or Tchouameni and Bissouma for less, no brainer for me.
Or scratching our head why we missed out
Why would you take the games against PSG, City and Chelsea when we won to magnify the importance of the weakest part of the team. Didn't Fred get sent off against PSG at home therefor costing us the game? Wasn't he part of the embarrassment when Liverpool schooled us at Old Trafford? McT also had some absolute stinkers. Why don't you mention that? We finished 2nd which means feck all, despite the hindrance of a weak midfield.
And yeah what our rivals do, is directly connected with what we do, we fight for the same trophies unless you are happy loosing the EL to Villareal, while Chelsea win the CL. Ole plays those 2 probably because he knows Matic is absolutely past his best and has no other option, or he might just be average manager who fails to see what hindrance is our lack of quality in that double MF when Scotty and Fred play. Personally I think he understands nicely and will go for Rice next year, that is if he manages tow in something significant, or he will probably be sacked.
The price of 80m is bonkers and about 40m over what he actually is worth, but I fear we end up paying something like 60m for someone like the kid from Monaco, and he stinks up the place like Bakayoko did, or what Fred provides for 50m pounds. Rice would be a much more assured buy, but 80m is unrealistic.
I think Brighton would take a pound of flesh for Bissouma. He wouldn't cost as much as Rice but he'd be overpriced to a similar extent.
I'd be delighted with Rice, Phillips or Bissouma.
I think they would all be overpriced but I'm not sure we would sign anybody who isn't.
Any of the 3 would add to us in a much needed position.
I think they would all be overpriced but I'm not sure we would sign anybody who isn't.
Any of the 3 would add to us in a much needed position.
Just don't see it. Would rather stick lesser money on some other name if we are going to end up with a limited player.
Fred isn't in great form this season but I don't think Rice is an upgrade over last season Fred. That too for 80m. Last game I hardly noticed Rice playing against us. Not one pass or skill that would say yeah he will improve us.
This is how I feel. Somebody above said it best, he's a centre back in midfield. He does his best work sitting in of the CB's just sweeping up from deep positions.
How is that going to translate to United? he will need to be pushed up a lot higher and involved in areas with less space. I really do think it'll end up being another Schneiderlin situation.
Rice over any season Fred is an upgrade, albeit not for 80m. However if we were stupid enough to pay 50m for Fred, 60m for Rice would be a bargain. Did you also notice Fred playing for us? I did when he was bypasses constantly and turned around chasing shadows in the middle of the park.
It doesn't even need to be a Schneiderlin situation. Schneiderlin was a lower risk move, he only cost £25m and when he proved not good enough he was sold to Everton for £20m. Our only loss was £5m plus his salaries over two years.
Rice for the alleged £80m price tag would need to have Kanté level impact to not be a failure. Even Pogba gets often criticised for not having the impact expected of a £90m signing. If Rice ends up being a decent CDM and nothing more, then that's still pretty poor transfer given there's ample decent and very good CDMs available for less than half that.
If he ends up either being bad (like Scheiderlin) or not an improvement on our current options (like VDB) then that would a pretty scandalous waste of money.
Well then we can agree to disagree because we were bypassing the midfield West Ham had with quite ease despite Rice playing for them. I cant see Rice being any sort of an upgrade over Fred. And yes Fred had good last season. He is an easy target for criticism but any midfielder will struggle when our wingers provide next to no help in defense. Rice plays in a team which had 9 men defending alongside him and we still created so many chances. For us Rice will look no better than what Fred looks for us.
I love how he is just there before the attack starts.
I just want that so it stops our oppo counter attack completely. This allows us to play Pogba in midfield and Rashford at LW.
That's why Ole wants him if Pogba is staying I reckon.
Out of all the players mentioned and achievable to get - he always seems to be the most intelligent in positioning.
Even if he is not good enough for us - I really do enjoy watching that about him.
The guy plays like a piece of chess that blocks your area, your attack a step before your pawn gets bigger.
I just want that so it stops our oppo counter attack completely. This allows us to play Pogba in midfield and Rashford at LW.
That's why Ole wants him if Pogba is staying I reckon.
Out of all the players mentioned and achievable to get - he always seems to be the most intelligent in positioning.
Even if he is not good enough for us - I really do enjoy watching that about him.
The guy plays like a piece of chess that blocks your area, your attack a step before your pawn gets bigger.
Next Summer he'll have one year left on his contract.
Should be a fairly reasonable price. I hope we're in for him.
I get the feeling he doesn't want to sign a new contract either, in case Brighton try to price him out of a move.
He'll be 26 next summer. If he commits to a new contract and doesn't get a big move while his stock is high and price is low, then it might never happen for him.
It's not like he is a bad player but it doesn't make sense paying premium for a player that isn't that great when we have João Palhinha that looks like the real deal and will be a lot cheaper (and everyone knows that if you want to buy high-quality portuguese players for a decent price, Sporting is always a good choice 
)
)We don't need Phillips. Phillips is another box to box player. Essentially a higher quality Fred. That's not what this team needs. It needs a proper defensive midfielder to secure the midfield and shield the defense, and launch our attacks by getting the ball to the more creative players. We don't need another high energy player thrashing around trying to win the ball all over the place.
Phillips does play as the CDM for Leeds. For England he plays as an box to box 8.
Philips is hard to judge because he plays in a 1 man midfield at Leeds and England dont play through midfield.
He's just a brilliant midfielder and proved that again on Sunday. A lot of his work goes unnoticed in the sense he's always in the right position to intercept and stop counter attacks - that quality reminds me of Carrick.
I'm sure we will be in for him but we won't be the only ones with Chelsea / City etc
I'm sure we will be in for him but we won't be the only ones with Chelsea / City etc
It's all about opinions. Maybe it's me as I don't know how you beat those CL and PL wining teams more than once if your midfield is so shite. Please educate me.
Fred didn't cost us the game, it was clear that Ole should have taken him off and the red wasn't a fecking foul anyway.
Liverpool schooled us at OT, you need to be more specific than that.
Ask Moyes, LVG, JM et al if finishing second means feck all. I guess you must like Thurs night football?
You can surmise as much as you like, unless you work with him or fecking related to him, you are basing his actions on your opinion. I'll use facts, nearly every big game, he plays them. Why would a manager in his dream job play players that are so shite, would lose him games and ultimately his job?
Told you, don't give a feck about who winning what or when, only interested in what we are doing. Maybe I'm just a different type of fan that's old enough to remember when we were not winning feck all unlike some who's only memories are when we were. There are some spoilt brats in our fan base......
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£25 mill in 2015 would amount to what today? I mean, it was a similar amount Real Madrid paid for Modric and Kroos around the same time. A bit more than Modric a few years earlier. More than Bayern paid for Thiago.
If you look at his stats at club level it's pretty clear that he's excellent at the defensive side of the game but where he's different to a player like Ndidi is that he's also an excellent long range passer. His expected assists is also at the higher level. He does take corners but he's also very good at through balls. He gets dribbled past a lot but as you say Leeds often leave him completely exposed. I think in a double pivot as the CDM he could shine.
https://fbref.com/en/players/4f565d77/scout/365_euro/Kalvin-Phillips-Scouting-Report
In football inflation? Maybe £40-45m I'd say. Are you trying to say he was expensive or overpriced for 2015? If Everton were willing to pay 80% of his fee to us 18 months later, despite the fact he was a failure, you can tell he wasn't really overpriced. We paid £90m for Pogba and £35m for Bailly in the summer of 2016 for reference.
Alcantara and Kroos are not really comparable situations. The former had a release clause triggered on his contract because of low participation. The latter was a forced sale because he was refusing to renew and was on his last year. That's a bit like using Varane's £36m price tag in 2021 and comparing it with £35m for Bailly in 2016 to make a point that Bailly was overpriced. Whereas in fact, if Varane had 3-4 years of contract remaining then Real Madrid would be asking for £80m or more.
He's not much better than Mctom who I also don't rate. We need much much better if you want to be a top team that CONTROLS games
Good for you. Seems like you prefer that to the glory days. Anyway they get picked because he is pragmatic and it ensures we are hard to beat. From your long memory of sporting us through thick and thin have we been a team with defensive, pragmatic principles?
I think he would improve us. But, I also think we will try Haaland next summer. Not sure the club will have enough money for both.
Like who? He’s what we want McFred to be. A midfielder who can actually defend and knows how to put out fire. Instead we have two 8’s trying to be one 6. Neither can pass and neither is aware of danger. They just both work hard.
I’m not trying to say he was expensive or overpriced. But comparing a price in 2015 to one in 2022 is tricky. Vidal was a huge star in 2015 and Bayern paid €5 mill more for him that same summer.
And in my opinion, Rice should be a lot more expensive than Schneiderlin. Not only because he is two-three years younger than MS was at the time, meaning you should get more years out of him, he should be more likely do develop further the next couple of years.
I also think he is a lot better and a lot more talented. Schneiderlin made his debut in the PL when he was at a similar age as Rice is now. Rice has played more than 10 000 minutes in the PL and is a regular for England.
Potentially - though the risk of him not adjusting to the premier league or settling in England would be higher as well
I suspect Ndidi would cost similar to Rice so that seems the going rate if you want a young DM with high potential who is PL proven
Zakaria on free might be worth a punt though and hes eligable to sign a pre-contract in Jan isnt he.
1. We dont play with a "pure 6". We play with 2 CMs. If we had a Jorginho/Thiago type, next to McT/Fred, we wouldnt need a pure 6.
2. Even if we replace McT with say Rice, chances are his partner will still be Fred. Because Fred is a better/more reliable CM than VdB, Matic and Pogba(having a new played next to him wont change/help with the fact that he keeps losing the ball in dangerous areas).
3. The only reason people want a "pure 6" is to overcompensate and try to force players who are not 8s, into a 8 role like Pogba. People think if we get a DM it would suddenly mask the deficiencies of Pogba/VdB in a 2man midfield. It wont.
2. Even if we replace McT with say Rice, chances are his partner will still be Fred. Because Fred is a better/more reliable CM than VdB, Matic and Pogba(having a new played next to him wont change/help with the fact that he keeps losing the ball in dangerous areas).
3. The only reason people want a "pure 6" is to overcompensate and try to force players who are not 8s, into a 8 role like Pogba. People think if we get a DM it would suddenly mask the deficiencies of Pogba/VdB in a 2man midfield. It wont.
Neither Neves nor Bissouma would cost anywhere near that much. Probably on the £35m-£40m mark. I doubt Ndidi would cost £80m too.
I'm not sure he's the kind of player we really want, I think he's a tad too similar too Fred.
Not really, Rice would be Matic's replacement and you could partner him up with McTominay, Pogba, VDB, Fred or even maybe Hannibal in the future. How is Fred a more reliable CM than VDB? His off the ball work is his biggest strength but reliability certainly isn't one of them. The squad needs a Matic/no.6 replacement no question, not sure how anyone could disagree with that.
Fred had a poor finish to last season and start to this one, but otherwise he's been far better than VDB has ever shown for us. Also better than Scott has generally been, although Scott does tend to have a couple of excellent matches a year which would move him ahead if he can start performing like that more often.
Fred has been that much needed engine in the midfield closing players down and getting a foot in, but when I read reliable I automatically assume it's someone who doesn't put a foot wrong and keeps hold of possession, I see VDB (along with Matic and Pogba) as more reliable with a ball at his feet but reading back I see he was probably referring to Fred being more reliable in that DP role. My mistake.
There only deficiencies because of our style of play. We don’t focus on retaining the ball. Thiago losses the ball just as much as a Pogba VDB.
Prefer that to the glory days, what a stupid comment. You don't have to think that long, LVG and Jose era. Wasn't Jose who signed Fred and didn't he create a trophy for Scott? Also, you know Fred and Scott don't pick themselves. You think they get on the pitch and say feck Ole, we going to be defensive and pragmatic as oppose to exciting and expansive....
Yeah but all are pragmatic managers. Hence why the set up is what it is. If Josr had stayed on this would be his midfield too.
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