City spent £63m on Rodri. Rice is worth it. We need to sign him up even if it’s £80m.
Declan Rice
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
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The fact is the price gets raised alot because of the club that targets them.
Diallo isn't a 37.5 mil player but we payed that for a young player because we are Manchester United. A player that hardly anyone knew from Italy. Martial is a player we overpayed for too.
We overpay for players and no matter where we get a player from - we will over pay for it.
We payed 50 million for Fred.
Soon as a player is coming to United there is an increase in the price by 15-20 million.
I do not think Rice is a 100 million player but if we can overpay for him and get him around 70-75 and under the Pogba transfer fee then we should be able to sleep with our eyes closes a bit.
Diallo isn't a 37.5 mil player but we payed that for a young player because we are Manchester United. A player that hardly anyone knew from Italy. Martial is a player we overpayed for too.
We overpay for players and no matter where we get a player from - we will over pay for it.
We payed 50 million for Fred.
Soon as a player is coming to United there is an increase in the price by 15-20 million.
I do not think Rice is a 100 million player but if we can overpay for him and get him around 70-75 and under the Pogba transfer fee then we should be able to sleep with our eyes closes a bit.
But but he doesn’t dominate top teams
Why I want him is because I think that :
With him Mctominay can be the best version box to box midfielder he can be.
With him Pogba can be the version of the deeper pivot we want him to be or he wants to be like he does for France.
We can even have Fred playing like the energy player for Brazil that Dani Alves talks about.
I'm not saying that this should be our tactics- but it's more that I really like Rice's ability to sit in front of the defence and protect it and then almost tell all the players who play in front of him to play how they like. He protects whilst giving the others a freedom. Soucek is hardly seen next to him most of the time.
Whether in the future we sign Bellingham or Tchouameni or whoever - I think sitting next to a protective player like Rice can really be useful in giving that player an ability to get in to a 5th gear.
With him Mctominay can be the best version box to box midfielder he can be.
With him Pogba can be the version of the deeper pivot we want him to be or he wants to be like he does for France.
We can even have Fred playing like the energy player for Brazil that Dani Alves talks about.
I'm not saying that this should be our tactics- but it's more that I really like Rice's ability to sit in front of the defence and protect it and then almost tell all the players who play in front of him to play how they like. He protects whilst giving the others a freedom. Soucek is hardly seen next to him most of the time.
Whether in the future we sign Bellingham or Tchouameni or whoever - I think sitting next to a protective player like Rice can really be useful in giving that player an ability to get in to a 5th gear.
My point was you'd be more willing to spend a higher amount on somebody with good Commercial value. Rice wouldn't bring anything.
That's nothing close to £100m is it? and Rodri is much better. We've already gone public and said we won't be buying him at that value. Best to move on.
Is he, how are you working that out from Rodri?
Apart from a solidity in our midfield that we currently lack, which in my view is far more important than commercial value. I get what you mean but for me the DM is a real utility position. None of the greats in that position have necessarily been commercially huge and they were still coveted commodities. I'm not saying that Rice is a great yet by the way or even comparable but imagine how much you'd pay for a prime Makalele now? Or how much the Kante of Leicester would fetch right now.
He’s a quality young player who will only get better like Rodri when City paid the £63m release clause. Add the English and United tax and £70-80m computes. And no way West Ham turn that down.
He's neither in a Makelele or Kante bracket, that's the issue.
He's a solid player don't get me wrong but for circa £100m you need a genuine world class player. Just look at the pressure Pogba arrived with at £89m.
It's just not realistic to expect to pay that much, and I really don't think he will make that much difference either.
Rodri is still pretty young, Rice is behind him in most areas, why would we care about getting an English player?
No he's not, I said I wasn't comparing, both of those would go for much more than £70m IMO. Saying that, Rice is still very young and already playing at a high level, who knows how good he will become?
He's a solid player don't get me wrong but for circa £100m you need a genuine world class player. Just look at the pressure Pogba arrived with at £89m.
With this bit I have to disagree.
I just can't believe people who watch his west ham games don't rate him. Just doesn't make sense. I can see the question of his England games - it's a bit different but the tactics are too.
Because he would improve us.
Many players would improve us, that's not a justification for that price tag.
So you don’t like him at that price and I do. Agree to disagree. Moving on.
Upgrade maybe but given all the other issues, hard to make any assessment at the mo. I'd go as far to say, he'd look worse than at his current team like most of the players we have signed. Not too many have improved significantly or even stayed the same.
As each week goes by and his qualities become ever more evident I think this thread, (230 pages in) is become increasingly academic. It is less about whether or not we want to pay a big fee for Rice and more about where Rice would like to play next. If he leaves West Ham where the fans unanimously love him the only place he is likely to want to go is Chelsea, a team he played for as a youth, the team supported by his parents, and the team who his best mate Mason Mount plays for. Add to that the fact that he can stay in London and they are one of a few clubs able to afford him and as of now they offer him a better chance of trophies than United and it is a no brainer!
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If Chelsea really want him, he will go there. I don't think there's any real doubt about that. However they already have a strong midfield and I'm not sure if he fits the balance that they have (Kante has been getting quite a lot of injuries but Rice plays very differently than Kante), so I'm not sure if they will have strong interest in him.
Rice and Barella next summer 
An underrated quality of Rice is also his ball carrying. He’s a quality player and worth bringing in.
He is quite press resistant - you watch him and see him getting covered up by 3 players and it looks impossible but he still comes out of it.
He'd be a high risk, amazingly expensive signing. This is a bad idea from start to finish.
It's madness to think a single player will fix all our deficiencies in midfield. Currently we need two midfielders and if PP leaves, we need not one, not two but three midfield players in the summer. Therefore, launching bids north of 60m quid for Rice would be stupid.
But we are a stupid club, so I could see it happen
But we are a stupid club, so I could see it happen
No, we don't.
2 top CM's will be more than enough.
Would be an excellent window if we can get Rice and Tielemans at reasonable price. Our midfield would be sorted for another 5 years.
I think the plan is to replace PP with Hannibal
Think of a situation where Pogba leaves on a Freebie (no funds to reinvest), Donny leaves, and Mata & Matic collect their bus passes (no funds to reinvest).
That's potentially 4 MFs gone next season with only McFred remaining...!
Do we replace all 4, which would be practically impossible, given that at least 2 would be squad players, or do we blow all our biscuits on 2 and hope for an injury free campaign?
Then you also have to factor in, that Haaland is prime target, and he will cost about £70m of your budget assuming the buy out clause is correct.
Rather we go for a quality midfielder from the other leagues that would cost 20-40 million like Camavinga or Fabinho than a premium overpriced English lad that could turn out to be a massive flop here. We need to stop overpaying for players left and right. He's not worth 100 million in a million years.
My only concern would be that Ole wouldn’t be the best coach to carry on with the strong upwards trajectory he’s shown to be on over the last 12 months. Get a new manager in who will get him to improve further and he might just be the guy to get in my opinion.
One of the few DMs around I wouldn’t be petrified of the idea of him playing in a midfield-three with both Pogba & Bruno. But think he’d also set a good platform for all of our midfielders to play well with him (excluding Matic who he’d replace anyway).
One of the few DMs around I wouldn’t be petrified of the idea of him playing in a midfield-three with both Pogba & Bruno. But think he’d also set a good platform for all of our midfielders to play well with him (excluding Matic who he’d replace anyway).
I think if we did somehow get Rice and pay £80m plus, he would be afflicted with the Man Utd disease. That is to say, he would arrive in a blaze of publicity and disappear after three weeks and become the target of fans who are disappointed. How many big big monet signings have lit up up the team on a consistant basis? Pogba has been inconsistent as has Maguire. Fred a joke. Sanchez and Falcao were a waste of space.
I would rather they spent 40m each on two workhorses to play in front of our defence whoever that may be.
I would rather they spent 40m each on two workhorses to play in front of our defence whoever that may be.
Nice run and pass/assist for the first goal.
Really enjoy watching him because I'm waiting for him to be crap or disssapointing.
Unfortunately for me David Moyes has improved the whole of West Ham aswell and the team are playing with a next level of confidence.
Really enjoy watching him because I'm waiting for him to be crap or disssapointing.
Unfortunately for me David Moyes has improved the whole of West Ham aswell and the team are playing with a next level of confidence.
I think its not bad idea to sign him now actually, We are playing 352, he can be both our DM and CB.
The reason I like him is because he plays like this "false CB".
He kind of allows a team to have a 3rd CB in a 4231 system and yet he is able to come out in to midfield when that is needed too.
The other player that does that is Frenkie De Jong during his Ajax days when Ten Hag managed him who is technically excellent when doing it (I'm sure this still happens at Barca).
Nice goal too.
Think I've seen enough of him for today
Think I've seen enough of him for today
Nice strike.
Reads the game brilliantly - knows when to go, when to sit, when to press, cuts passing lanes...he's just way beyond his years tactically.
Throw in great athleticism, leadership, ball carrying and technical ability and he's a no brainer signing for just about any team.
Throw in great athleticism, leadership, ball carrying and technical ability and he's a no brainer signing for just about any team.
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Feel that he would be a Maguire-like signing. Decent and an improvement over what we have, but extremely overpriced and not as good as what City/Liverpool buy on foreign markets (for example Rodri and Fabinho).
Looks like a giant mouse
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