Defensive transitions or defending in general

RedStarUnited

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
8,083
Try and not just call Ole out…

Can anyone actually explain to me why teams have it so easy against us. It feels like at any moment in a game when the opposition have the ball, they are 2/3 passes away from having a chance at out goal. The 3-2 goal today, they kick off, 2 passes later Vardy a shot on goal.

It feels like we lose most 50/50s too. I have never seen a supposed big team so easy to play and attack.
 

11101

Full Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
21,206
Our players don't know their jobs. They find themselves caught in bad positions when we lose the ball in attack, which they often do because our attacking is so haphazard, and don't know what positions to take up or who to track or whether to press. Our defensive transition is simply run back as fast as we can and take up our starting formation. There isn't time for that, we have to know how to stop an attack earlier.

Look how close together Pogba and Matic often were when trying to get the ball back, and how much space they left open. Or the last game when Fred couldnt make the tackle and AWB stood there watching. All those kinds of things stem from players not knowing what to do in a situation.
 

Josep Dowling

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
7,622
A key issue I see most games is the CB and goalkeeper all putting each other into danger. Leicester’s first goal was a prime example. There is a lack of movement ahead of them giving them options but the two CB’s and goalie are too slow in moving the ball. De Gea is also terrible with his passing. Long and short but we have known this for years.
 

spiriticon

Full Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2013
Messages
7,384
My musings:

1. The defence in whole, drifts towards the ball and ignores the runners into space. Play one good pass into space and more often than not, you get a one on one vs De Gea. It's a joke.

2. The absolute refusal to commit a professional foul to stop a counter. What are we? Gentlemen?

3. The absolute refusal to mark anybody on the back post in a corner

4. The absolute refusal of the attackers to press as a unit to defend from the front.

5. Thinking we are good enough to 'play tippy tappy from the back' against high pressing teams when quite frankly it makes me panic more often than not
 

FriedClams

Full Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2021
Messages
3,688
It’s a combination of a lot of things, but our defenders do not possess the ability to play out consistently well from the back. And when they do play it out well, the ball goes to Pogba who slows play down, or Bruno who looks for the difficult ball a bit too often, and both turn the ball over too quickly. The result is a disjointed midfield, with our wide players now out of position as they expected the ball to come to them or at least get involved in an attack.
 

cyril C

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
2,634
It was a simple fact that, to play against good teams, you can't trust Pogba as CMF, period. McFred or other combination, depends on who are available.
 

Dr. StrangeHate

Full Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2013
Messages
5,415
It was a simple fact that, to play against good teams, you can't trust Pogba as CMF, period. McFred or other combination, depends on who are available.
City play with KDB, Silva and DM. They make it work. France make it work and have even won tournaments with it.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,340
City play with KDB, Silva and DM. They make it work. France make it work and have even won tournaments with it.
I think City have an aggressive defensive system the players know how to implement when the ball is lost and when they deviate from it Pep yells (see the Leipzig game where they won 6-3 but he screamed at Grealish and Mahrez for a minute or so each, can't imagine that being the case here) or benches them.

We sort of float around playing a rigid 4-2-3-1 with a 10 like it's the late 80s and opponents have time to get their central players on the ball and progress it nicely.

Basically I think we're slow, lazy and don't really have a clear plan without the ball (or on it apart from Cristiano going to the back post for crosses and Bruno being free I guess while everyone else stays where they're supposed to like a foosball player.
 

tenpoless

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
16,180
Location
Fabinho's forehead
  1. The defence, midfield, AM and forward seem to be playing their own game
  2. We have defenders that play with the ball but the coordination between Maguire, DDG and Shaw looks very shaky. At times you'd think they'd only been training together for 2 weeks
  3. We have Ronaldo up front but we have no control in midfield. If we complain about Ronaldo not helping the general play then we shouldn't have signed him in the first place. Ronaldo without the ball up front is a useless Ronaldo
  4. We play with Bruno but it looks like he's being instructed to play as a SS than AM. Or rather "do whatever you need to do" type of thing. He's a very good player but that freedom doesn't look good since he's the only person pressing and running like a maniac up front. He needs help to manage his presence in the midfield
  5. We play with wide forwards than classical wingers but lack through passes (recently) from Bruno and others and instead relying on short passes from Shaw to them, but none of them excels at beating defender consistently from a standing position other than Sancho. They excel at bursting through with their pace, we didn't utilize this properly
  6. We have an imbalance attack, it always starts from the left so the opponents can just overload bodies on the left, AWB lessen our threats on the right but it shouldn't be too one sided really with a proper training
  7. We try to put Pogba whenever we can because he's too good to be left out. Sometimes on the left, sometimes in the CM position. But we all know he's the best at AM role (at least with United) and should be rotated with Bruno, we played Bruno for too much and it looks like it's going to remain this season
  8. We have a good depth but they aren't properly used. If someone performs really badly and you have a decent replacement, go for that. Who knows? the result might surprise you when you give someone with a point to proof a good amount of game time to replace the underperforming ones. Form comes and goes, it's about how they're being managed. I do believe that players that are adept at their roles might have a few stinkers. It's unavoidable
We defend as a team. When you are constantly shitting yourself at the back and the other areas are underperforming, it leads to silly goals due to the ball being won by the opposing team at disadvantageous positions.
 
Last edited:

Caesar2290

New Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
1,283
The old saying goes: Offense is the best defense. The reason the likes of City have no need for 2+ DMs is because they are either always attacking or really good at keeping the ball. You don't need a DM if you're team is excellent at keeping the ball.

You'd need a well drilled system for that though, so I'm just going to stop here.
 

cyril C

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
2,634
City play with KDB, Silva and DM. They make it work. France make it work and have even won tournaments with it.

How other teams work doesn't make a difference, it is about HOW our team work. And Pogba needs at least 1, prefer 2 MF to cover his ass.