Television Devs

[The Firestarter]

Devs (2020)

A computer engineer investigates the secretive development division in her company, which she believes is behind the disappearance of her boyfriend
IMDB

Two episodes in, I think it's very promising. Must have had some real scientific advisory on this one. A rare WTF moment in episode 2 as well.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yeah I posted about it in the recommended TV thread. It's really good so far. Top notch production values.

Weird to see Nick Offerman in a serious role but he pulls it off very well.

I would strongly recommended it to anyone who likes Garland's other stuff e.g. Ex Machina

 

[nimic]

Yep, it's great so far.

 

[simonhch]

Watched the first episode tonight. Fantastic so far. Love Garland’s stuff, so no surprise there.

 

[The Firestarter]

What a way to open an episode:

Step 1: Create a new technology that reinvents the nature of human existence.
Step 2: Use it for porn.

 

[Massive Spanner]

This show is great.

 

[Member 60376]

Absolutely fantastic so far

 

[Mani]

Three episodes in and its really good.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

Just watched episode one and I really enjoyed it apart from one thing, the main girl, she doesn't seem to be a very good actor. Hope it doesn't ruin things going forward because the show has lots of potential.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Alex Garland could make a movie about how to make tea and it would still look intriguing and thought provoking.

Loved that personal homage to Dark Souls in 2nd episode... and that homeless guy hanging around Lily's house, tell me that's not a spy or FBI.

This whole show is trippy stuff.

 

[Massive Spanner]

This hasn't really lived up to the first few episodes. The last two have been meh. And the actress who plays Lili is crap. Hopefully it finishes better.

Also am incredibly shocked that Lyndon is a 22 year old woman in real life and not a 13 or14 year old guy

 

[crappycraperson]

It is ok. Not sure if they have done a good job of portraying the invention in question is via science rather than magic.

 

[kps88]

This hasn't really lived up to the first few episodes. The last two have been meh. And the actress who plays Lili is crap. Hopefully it finishes better.

Yeah she really sticks out.

 

[Ivor Ballokov]

The worst performance since Ed Skrein in Game of Thrones.

 

[Solius]

Just watched episode one and I really enjoyed it apart from one thing, the main girl, she doesn't seem to be a very good actor. Hope it doesn't ruin things going forward because the show has lots of potential.

She’s so bad.

 

[kps88]

Garland is writing another TV show for the same cast because he enjoyed working with them so much. So we have that to look forward to if it gets picked up.

 

[Van Piorsing]

It is ok. Not sure if they have done a good job of portraying the invention in question is via science rather than magic.

Religion of science is portrayed quite spot on in this show imo.

 

[The Firestarter]

"What about the dishwasher?" - A start of a conversation so terrible, the only explanation for it is if it is a random projection by the devs system , an outcome that occurs once in several billion iterations.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Lily have slight chance of survival if Lyndon's multiverse thing is correct, other than that the outcome of mini series is pretty much settled it seems.

 

[Member 60376]

The latest episode is good. Builds up to the climax well.

 

[Massive Spanner]

it reminds me of one of Garland's own films, actually - Annihilation.

Cool idea, starts well, then turns into a mess, with a highly unlikable main character.

 

[crappycraperson]

I think I am pretty sure about the show's storyline so far at least when it comes to the faux science behind the supposed functioning of the universe. Basically multi-universe theory is correct where at every pivotal decision point universe branches out into multiple versions on the basis of difference in outcome. But Forest in his rigidity to adherence to a sole deterministic version, driven by the desire to escape any blame for his daughter's and wife's death, saw one possible outcome for future via his tool and proceeded to make sure that every decision was taken to bring that outcome to fruition. Since in his mind if that happens that everything is already determined to be.
I think the show explains the role of chance and free-well pretty well in the sequence where Lyndon's falls off to die. We are shown that in every possible version of the universe the same outcome takes place and Katie's assertion to Lyndon that there has to be universes Lyndon survives is shown to be false. I take it to mean two things, Katie does have free will to prevent this from happening by not convincing Lyndon to try this out but she chooses to adhere to the version of future she saw (my take on her motivation is that she is intrigued to know what happens past the last snapshot they see of the future and also that she possibly knows that quantum mechanics would mean that Lyndon falls with 100% probability). Lyndon's has free will to take up Katie on her offer and face certain death or walk away and live.

 

[Van Piorsing]

I think I am pretty sure about the show's storyline so far at least when it comes to the faux science behind the supposed functioning of the universe. Basically multi-universe theory is correct where at every pivotal decision point universe branches out into multiple versions on the basis of difference in outcome. But Forest in his rigidity to adherence to a sole deterministic version, driven by the desire to escape any blame for his daughter's and wife's death, saw one possible outcome for future via his tool and proceeded to make sure that every decision was taken to bring that outcome to fruition. Since in his mind if that happens that everything is already determined to be.
I think the show explains the role of chance and free-well pretty well in the sequence where Lyndon's falls off to die. We are shown that in every possible version of the universe the same outcome takes place and Katie's assertion to Lyndon that there has to be universes Lyndon survives is shown to be false. I take it to mean two things, Katie does have free will to prevent this from happening by not convincing Lyndon to try this out but she chooses to adhere to the version of future she saw (my take on her motivation is that she is intrigued to know what happens past the last snapshot they see of the future and also that she possibly knows that quantum mechanics would mean that Lyndon falls with 100% probability). Lyndon's has free will to take up Katie on her offer and face certain death or walk away and live.

Yup. Katie also could let Lyndon die so the predicted universe can happen where Lily also dies. Altering one detail in chain of event could lead to derailing from the tramline of quantum prediction aka Forests plan to predict fate through technology. Ironically Forest's wife and kid died in a car crash because of piece of tech (cellphone) but also because of her free will to continue talking while driving.

If machine can predict free will then perhaps there's no free will at all, then again machine can be reprogrammed and there's this weird as f*ck scene where Stewart standing next to elevator and asks Forest to guess the citation which he couldn't guess which took him by surprise, perhaps he didn't saw that one coming ? Then when Lily comes, he offers her chance to turn back.

Judging Stewart's character he's not striking me the type that would let innocent die and just like Lyndon he thinks Forest is deluded and Katie is his acolyte to a religious degree. That is strictly based if the free will is the real deal. Perhaps it isn't. Stewart had time to mess with quantum computer when Forest and Katie were not present at Devs.

 

[crappycraperson]

Yup. Katie also could let Lyndon die so the predicted universe can happen where Lily also dies. Altering one detail in chain of event could lead to derailing from the tramline of quantum prediction aka Forests plan to predict fate through technology. Ironically Forest's wife and kid died in a car crash because of piece of tech (cellphone) but also because of her free will to continue talking while driving.

If machine can predict free will then perhaps there's no free will at all, then again machine can be reprogrammed and there's this weird as f*ck scene where Stewart standing next to elevator and asks Forest to guess the citation which he couldn't guess which took him by surprise, perhaps he didn't saw that one coming ? Then when Lily comes, he offers her chance to turn back.

Judging Stewart's character he's not striking me the type that would let innocent die and just like Lyndon he thinks Forest is deluded and Katie is his acolyte to a religious degree. That is strictly based if the free will is the real deal. Perhaps it isn't. Stewart had time to mess with quantum computer when Forest and Katie were not present at Devs.

But has Stewart also seen into the future like Forest and Katie do routinely? If he had he would know who Lily is? But your point about forest being surprised is a good one. We do then see him and Katie reverting back to doing what they already saw happening after that so I am not sure on Stewart's exact role.

 

[Van Piorsing]

But has Stewart also seen into the future like Forest and Katie do routinely? If he had he would know who Lily is? But your point about forest being surprised is a good one. We do then see him and Katie reverting back to doing what they already saw happening after that so I am not sure on Stewart's exact role.

Remember homeless Pete ? He confessed to Lily he saved her life because of a choice, not Russian agency's orders and Lily was always kinda cool to him. In one of the earlier episodes, I think it was Lyndon who stated that in order for quantum computer to predict everything to every single qubit per digit it had to be big as the universe. That one thing was kiling Forest as he wanted to see his dead daughter without any distortion or multiple variations.

I don't know what Stewart wants but his fate could be influenced by Lyndon when he visited him in a trailer and literally told him that Forest is wrong... but Stewart also have free will and he chose to let Lily into Devs allowing for possibility of her death.

 

[The Firestarter]

Forest and Katie begin as proponents of the super determinism theory , while the devs system demonstrates that many worlds theory is correct, therefore free will exists. But they seem to want to force a certain 'world' materialize.

The scenes rendered from devs a couple of episodes ago, that were still a point cloud (prior to Lyndon's change) showed Lily crawling. Do you think that was in her apartment when Kenton was trying to murder her?

 

[Dan]

BBC 2 is showing this next week, on Wednesday and Thursday at 9pm.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Forest and Katie begin as proponents of the super determinism theory , while the devs system demonstrates that many worlds theory is correct, therefore free will exists. But they seem to want to force a certain 'world' materialize.

The scenes rendered from devs a couple of episodes ago, that were still a point cloud (prior to Lyndon's change) showed Lily crawling. Do you think that was in her apartment when Kenton was trying to murder her?

That damn spontaneous conversation about dishwasher... it basically killed Jamie who was the one crawling after Kenton shot him once. He should never head for kitchen.

Lily's really lucky or acting extremely super deterministic. I guess she will have choice at Devs to kill Forest without choice or show free will and do something spontaneous like instigating conversation about do they have dishwasher at Devs.

Then again, Forest had no problem with letting her in through the guard at the gates, so there's perhaps still possibility he's handling Lily into his plan aka deterministic universe.

 

[The Firestarter]

That damn spontaneous conversation about dishwasher... it basically killed Jamie who was the one crawling after Kenton shot him once. He should never head for kitchen.

Lily's really lucky or acting extremely super deterministic. I guess she will have choice at Devs to kill Forest without choice or show free will and do something spontaneous like instigating conversation about do they have dishwasher at Devs.

Then again, Forest had no problem with letting her in through the guard at the gates, so there's perhaps still possibility he's handling Lily into his plan aka deterministic universe.

How many quantum physicists does it take to unload a dishwasher...

I am wondering (as everyone I'd guess) what the final decoherence event is going to be. I am not sure if it's supposed to be a universe ending with all the forces collapsing back into one? Remember Forest commenting on how the world changes keep accelerating, and while people used to dwell in caves for 5000 years , now the world changes every couple of hours ? This velocity increase may hit some 'theoretical' limit which is the time point in question. I am not saying this makes any sense, just trying to tie it with the 'universe' of the show.

Or it's just the second coming of Jesus.

 

[Van Piorsing]

How many quantum physicists does it take to unload a dishwasher...

I am wondering (as everyone I'd guess) what the final decoherence event is going to be. I am not sure if it's supposed to be a universe ending with all the forces collapsing back into one? Remember Forest commenting on how the world changes keep accelerating, and while people used to dwell in caves for 5000 years , now the world changes every couple of hours ? This velocity increase may hit some 'theoretical' limit which is the time point in question. I am not saying this makes any sense, just trying to tie it with the 'universe' of the show.

Or it's just the second coming of Jesus.

As Stewart stated in recent episode: The box contains everything. Perhaps he meant also every single possibility as he's leaning towards Lyndon's multiverse, then the collapse is possible by definition, but it has to be played out to the letter within amounts of variations and distortions. It's simply possible, because the show kinda wants to free itself from binary understanding of pretty much everything.

Just like you I'm also waiting for next Thursday, but I can tell you right now without any predicting that Alex Garland himself stated in interview that he is pro Determinism. Perhaps the purpose of the show is to question his own beliefs or he'll try to reinforce it. It may be a sci-fi show but it was consulted with people in actual science fields, even the look of quantum computer on the show itself was a created through suggestions from his scientist buddies he also knew when writing Ex Machina.

 

[Solius]

The feck are those annoying repeating breathing sounds and quotes at the beginning of the latest episode.

 

[Van Piorsing]

The feck are those annoying repeating breathing sounds and quotes at the beginning of the latest episode.

 

[Solius]

Yeah it’s the same thing as the start of a Tribe Called Quest Song but they only repeated it about three times. That breathing was irritating.

 

[Member 60376]

Lots of allegory. Not sure how I feel about this finale. Decent, much more than that in fact because it does not disappoint. But it leaves me uneasy.

 

[The Firestarter]

Good finale. Around the time Forest started explaining how every particle of Amaya is known, I was certain that the guy wanted to go into the simulation and live with his daughter.

It was also obvious that Lily would break her super determinism and throw a wrench (or literally, a pistol) in their planned development. However , I didn't anticipate that's why the system couldn't predict any further, and probably should've. I still dont see why this would mean that predictions for the whole universe would be voided. Butterfly effect is not supposed to work that fast, unless Lily is quite the butterfly. I also didnt anticipate Stewart forcing things, but I guess there was a reason he was standing at the airlock all that time...

Finally , I wonder which consecutive simulation this is? Maybe I have to rewatch this to see all the hints.

And, in the very end I think we are reminded that it is America (simulated or not ), and Deus will ultimately be used to provide heaven on earth for profit

 

[Van Piorsing]

Stewart almost did the right thing I think, he gave Lily very solid choice to go or stay before choosing to execute Lyndon's revenge in a deterministic way. It was also cool how Katie didn't sell Stewart to authority by assuring the senator that nobody else knows about Deus.

Is it a real paradise if it's not eternal ? Machine can break or government can take full control of it. It's probably not even Forest as his memories are just a digital copy inside a program.

It's short but kinda elegant story and it was good while it lasted. After final episode next Garland's show with same actors sounds like another version of reality. Can't wait or perhaps it already happened in Devs.

 

[crappycraperson]

Good finale. Around the time Forest started explaining how every particle of Amaya is known, I was certain that the guy wanted to go into the simulation and live with his daughter.

It was also obvious that Lily would break her super determinism and throw a wrench (or literally, a pistol) in their planned development. However , I didn't anticipate that's why the system couldn't predict any further, and probably should've. I still dont see why this would mean that predictions for the whole universe would be voided. Butterfly effect is not supposed to work that fast, unless Lily is quite the butterfly. I also didnt anticipate Stewart forcing things, but I guess there was a reason he was standing at the airlock all that time...

Finally , I wonder which consecutive simulation this is? Maybe I have to rewatch this to see all the hints.

And, in the very end I think we are reminded that it is America (simulated or not ), and Deus will ultimately be used to provide heaven on earth for profit

Was that it? Her throwing away the gun led to system not being able to predict future? That does not make sense to me, especially since Linden's principle should account for different decisions leading to different worlds.

I actually did not get the ending. I mean I got the point, it was overtly explained. But did not get how they got there exactly. How did they explain transplanting actual human consciousness inside the simulation? I understand by extrapolating they are theoretically able to gather and computer every single quantum data particle in universe which allows them to recreate history and predict future on the basis of this data. But essentially the ending seems to suggest that human consciousness can be captures by a finite set of data points that can be added to a simulation. Even if I accept that premise, how were those specific data points captured since the way Forest and Lily died was different than what Deus had predicted.

 

[crappycraperson]

I actually wish they had spent more time in showing other hellish versions of other universes that Forest and Lily ended up in.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Decent final episode but it never reached the heights of the opening two. Good show let down my poor lead performances, in the end.

 

[VP89]

It has Ron Swanson so I'm in