Did Rooney fulfill his potential?

Web of Bissaka

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If so, when?

I think ^ that's where opinions split - the timing. Although it wouldn't surprise me if there are football fans that say he didn't fulfilled his potential, which I may agree in someway.

Just seen this good video and it asked one good question "Did he truly fulfill his potential?". I don't think the vid answer their own question directly though.

OPinion
In my opinion, he did for 4 seasons.
Season 06/07 is when he fulfilled his potential, and he carried it on until arguably season 09/10.

Why?
Seasons after 06/07, I don't see any aspects of his game that are improving. None. That season 16/17 is the final season where Rooney showed "newer" abilities especially in the passing and temperament departments. I don't see any improvements anymore from him. After 09/10, I notice a decline in his physical abilities, then his all around football abilities too gradually declining albeit at a slow rate. SAF turning him into more of a CF role or stay higher up the field with a shift in system to compensate that are the right decisions to "maintain" Wayne's goal scoring abilities and getting the best out of him overall as he continues to decline.

Many will argued his goal-scoring ability and other abilities in the box namely hold-up, post-play, heading, poaching and fox in the box improved in 09/10, but I say that's a matter of switching into a roles that necessitates Rooney to do more of those than Wayne's incapability in doing any of that with the top qualities he showcased in that season. In simple words, he can already do all of those before, but he's playing different roles so it's rare to see him do those.

The unique thing about Rooney is how he's already too good when he breakthrough into Everton's first team and consequently quickly becoming a key starting 11 for both England NT but more so with us Manchester United. Below are how he is since the very start. He's ridiculously good this early before he's 20, it's freaky. Special player in a way.

Strengths
1. Physical abilities - already maximum top level. It's freaky. All-around have everything - fitness, strength, pace, speed, agility, aggression and acrobatics.

2. Football intelligence - a natural of the game. Instinct-based type. Almost always, his decisions makings (if he's in the right temper) is always right. He more often than not choose the right options - to pass or not, to shoot or not, right time to dribbles or not, etc. Rooney's natural ability to fit in all kinds of tactics (yes even LVG's philosophy) almost like a glove and to play comaptibly with any players are just impressively a proof of his natural football instinct intelligence. Note that it's not street-smart, you know the dark arts of football which Rooney is bad at using each time he tried.

3. Team-player - he's an extreme team player. It's rare for someone of his abilities to be this willing to sacrifice himself for the team and actually he doesn't mind playing "second fiddle" to other teammates, as long as that #1 player is a "worthy star player" eg. RVN, CR7, Owen and Zlatan, basically players he respect and regarded as that. Contrast this to players like Berbatov and RVP, I don't think Rooney is totally happy, though that's just speculations. From what I see, the way he play is totally different between the two categories. I'm not including striker partners whom he enjoy playing with here mind eg. Saha and Tevez.

4. Football abilities - all-around he's almost complete already, high levels, just need slight more improvements in few aspects. This is the major reason along with his top physical abilitiesHe literally can do everything, just need more games to get the experiences to improve those. I don't think he needs any coaching in any of the stated four aspects at all, unless you count anger management as coaching.

5. Mentality - winner, fighter and strong challenger. Just need a bit of maturity and control in temperament, right channels of emotions. I think this is why he's willing to listen well to top coaches and follow their instructions to the tee, because he's a winner, along with strong awareness of good football tactics when he sees his manager as top coaches. I think it's just with Moyes where he sort of "rebel" in a way he half-hearted follow the shit crossings after crossings instructions. This is why I felt a potential of Rooney improving in this aspect because he's willing to make the step-up early on and hungry enough to change career in a good career projectory that he made the step-up to work with SAF, and listen instead of complaining and rebel. I believe there are other offers at that time right?

Weaknesses
1. Temperament - as we know, he tends to let emotions gets in the way, and opposing team use this, they like to riled him up and before it often works, refs too had no choice but to book him. Working with SAF is the right choice and perfect next step for his career.

2. Maturity & Discipline - similarly, we know how Rooney were, on and off the pitch. This put his career and reputations at risk, thus even the treatment he got when on the field eg. refs tend to book him after any challenges, etc. He became much much more mature thankfully from working with SAF who insist on it.

3. Passing - I don't rate his all-around passing abilities from the start. There are many flaws. His long pass and cross are good enough but still in a way rusty and can be refined and improved. Thankfully he did later on, quickly too. Seeing Scholes performing it everyday in training is a sight to behold.

So what did all those show?
And that's it. Very few weaknesses from the very start and he's already that good. Need just a good refinement which only SAF can do, doubt other manager can. The different roles he play affected his goal-scoring statistics. If his roles is to play as the main goalscorer and play more inside the box instead of spending time moving deeper to help deeper, then for sure his goals will already be higher than how it is now. He started as a free roaming SS who literally go anywhere on the pitch. When performing that roles early on, I can already see his abilities in heading, poaching, goal-scoring instinct, hold up play, etc. It's all already there. He's just not doing it more, preferring to be in the build up and combative actions elsewhere than focus to remain in the box.

Stats and Contexts?
Note that Statistics doesn't always tell the whole stories. That's the limitations of stats, without contexts., it's laughably weak. Consider the different of roles he played earlier and later. It's starkly different and the stats backed those up.

Starting season 07/08, his injuries get worse and worse, thus his body started to get affected leading to first his quick declining physical abilities alongside gradual slow decline of overall football abilities. His goal-scoring abilities albeit declining is still at top level, thus the stats showed all that when his roles are more into staying up and score, but we know it gets worse in 16/17 onwards and at the top level, its no longer enough. His natural instinct-type football intelligence does maintained until now, hence he still able to follow and fit in well with the different tactics and maintain making good decisions makings and positioning, while still showing natural goal-scoring instincts. The biggest problem is at the top level, his physical abilities is not enough to match his natural goals instinct. He can only show it a lower levels nowadays isn't it.

Conclusion?
He first fulfilled his potential in season 06/07, and remain in his peak best until 09/10.

But you may define "potential" differently. I see it as a player maximum best possible or projected/forecasted improvements in total sum of football abilities (physical, intelligence, technical, tactical, etc), temperament and mentality. And no doubt Rooney max all three main categories of that quickly. Cristiano Ronaldo for me exceeded his potential in contrast.
 
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Berbasbullet

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To be fair 10/11 he scored 34 goals from number 10 iirc? I’d say that was his last great season.
 

meamth

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Like it summarized in the video,

He very well did. It's just he is unlucky to have been in the same era as Messi and Ronaldo.

The only difference between Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi is career longevity, whilst the other two stayed at the top for 15 years, Rooney were on top for at least 6-8 years and steadily declined.
Those two never declined, which is an anomaly.
 

Eli Zee

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Of course he fulfilled his potential, to a certain extent - like 90%. Not the way Ronaldo did - 100% of his potential was reached


If Rooney worked/took care of his body like Ronaldo, he could've been a little better probably.
 

Adam-Utd

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He hit the peaks, but they were short lived unfortunately.

The Rooney between the AC milan - Bayern Munich CL ties was playing at an insane level, one of the most feared strikers around.

That injury to his ankle though he was never quite the same after that. Lost that explosiveness he used to have.

Injuries at the best moments of his career pretty much curtailed his peaks to short amounts.
 

Adisa

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Record goal scorer for club and country, many titles. Can't ask for more than that.
 

Flexdegea

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More than filled it.


Record holder for United and England.


Had to adapt his game as well over the years, but will easily go down as one of England best ever players.


He was such a Phenomenal player when he was younger can see why people think he didn't fulfill it but has injury issues over time. Was such a big player for us for so long. Pretty much won it all.


Imagine a having a player like him right now exactly what we need most for the aggression and will to win
 

Someone

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I think he did. He had a great career with united and won a lot of trophies. He was great for us for a long time, but his career maybe wasn't as long as some other world class players, which is fine.
 

Van Piorsing

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He fulfilled it not only because of SAF, when you play through your whole career with players like Van Nistelrooy, Solskjaer, Larsson, Keane, Scholes, Ronaldo, RvP, Giggs you can't go wrong even with his intesive lifestyle outside the pitch.

The only thing he could upgrade further was longevity and tbh that's borderline nitpicking.
 

led_scholes

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He had one of the sharpest declines i ve seen. Until 2012 he was amazing, until 2014 he was good, but nothing exceptional, and then he became a bottom level PL player at the age of 29. It seemed like every year was equivalent to 3, especially regarding his physical attributes. So for me he didn't fulfill his potential in the sense he didn't become one of our best ever players.

The worst thing is that we had to endure him and the media praise for 3 years, even though it was plain obvious that he wasn't anywhere near our level.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Only nitpick is I thought he’d eventually drop back and be a top midfielder but he pretty much had nothing to him in midfield other than the looped diagonal to Valencia
 

12OunceEpilogue

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I don't think so, but that's more about the huge potential he had as a kid. He was still a generational talent, with goal records for club and country and many medals, but we could arguably have been talking about one of the very greatest barring injuries and seemingly below par conditioning.
 

el3mel

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He ended his career here as our top goalscorer ever.

So I'll say yes, he did.
 

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Sure he did, even if he declined quickly. He was supposed to be a superstar after what we’ve seen from him as a teenager, ended up top scorer for the club and country and undoubtably a legend for both. If it wasn’t for absolute freaks of Messi and Ronaldo, arguably two most talented players to ever grace this game, he would’ve been a strong contender for at least one Ballon d’Or, perhaps in the season we won Champions League. Underwhelming international career, this has to be said, especially as England on paper was much better than what you achieved when Wazza played the leading role, but that’s due to rather poor management and internal issues between players. In few years time when you’ll think of the best British players of last few decades Rooney will always be there, IMO well above likes of Gerrard or Owen (even for his Ballon d’Or), great player that had a fantastic career, won it all on a club level and was a monster for over 10 years.
 

DanClancy

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Rooney was a special talent, don't recall as complete a player as an 18 year old.

He certainly didn't look after himself in the way he should have done so for that reason I don't think he fulfilled his potential.

Rooney was well past his best by the time he turned 27, a shadow of the player he was a few years earlier.
 

groovyalbert

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I think if you were told during Euro 2004 that Rooney was going to go on to be Utd and England's top scorer, and win every club trophy there is to be won in the process multiple times (bar CL & Europa), you'd be surprised if people were still arguing he didn't fulfil his potential after that.
 

Mindhunter

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Did he fulfil his potential? Yes.
Did he extract every ounce of football from his body? No.
Does it bother him? No.
Does he have more money than he is ever going to need? Yes.
 

tomaldinho1

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Yes, within usual parameters. Wonderful career with us, I think the transfer saga and seeing him decline here marred his reputation a bit because he should be up there with (if not above) our greatest legends performance-wise.

The counter argument is imagine Rooney with Ronaldo's lifestyle/dedication to fitness but then you can probably say every player 'could' have been better than they were.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Maybe not absolutely all of it but then also look at him compared to Jack Wilshere, Dele Alli and many others and yes he did. He still had a brilliant career. The best player in the world at 18 is often not the best player at 25 but Rooney went close.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Not fully.

To make an obvious point, he could've been more professional with regard to taking care of himself beyond the pitch. That might have slowed down his decline - which started too early, and was too steep.

Don't get me wrong - breaking through, and becoming a first team regular at the highest level, as early as he did was always likely to have an impact. But Rooney clearly could have done a better job taking care of himself (nobody forced the beers, chips or fags on him during off-season).

Rooney with Ronaldo's work ethic* (beyond the pitch) would have been a better player. So - no - he did not fully fulfill his potential.

* Or, if you think Ronaldo is too much of an outlier - let's just say something like Ronaldo's work ethic.
 

marktan

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Yes, but it's hard not to reach his potential when he was already at such a high level from like 2004. He wasn't like someone like Greenwood, Januzaj that needed to improve, Rooney from a young age was at a consistenly high level throughout his career until he started to decline in the early 2010s.

Players like Lewandowski had greater longevity but give me a young Rooney any day.

I think Ronaldo blinkers people's opinions a bit - Nani suffered from that too despite being a supremely talented player.
 

amolbhatia50k

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If you don't think he fulfilled his "potential" maybe your assessment about his "potential" is just fecking unrealistic
Maybe. Then again, potential is a funny thing. Who would have had Harry Kane as this top class CF he's become? I thought he was a bit limited when started off. So players do sometimes blow you away with how they improve. Rooney had his work cut out in that regard because he started out as such a phenomenal player. But I always felt that he should have matched somebody like Henry whose name comes first when people think of the PL's greatest. And Rooney's just doesn't, as good as he was.
 

harms

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It seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think he did. He should've reached the heights of Shevchenko, for example, so a Ballon d'Or winning player in a decade that's not dominated by 2 aliens. For me, he had only reached that level once, but that injury against Bayern stopped him and this spell of absolutely ridiculous form. He also failed to produce a decent performance at the international stage aside from the 2004 Euros (for different reasons), which is something that I want from a player of his talent. He was quite great for England under Capello before that injury as well iirc.

Look at Robben or Ribery if you want a contemporary analogy. Or look at Suarez's peak — and I genuinely believe that Rooney was more talented. For me he didn't reach their level consistently enough. Absolutely loved him as a player though, especially in his younger days as a more of a supporting striker — arguably a world-class player since his teenage years...
 

Vidyoyo

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In my honest and objective opinion, yes.

He was like a candle, burning brightly on the football pitch but never quite blinding the opposition, scorching their retinas entirely.

I'll always remember the name Wayne Rooney :(
 

djembatheking

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Of course he did, if only we had a young player with the ability and drive of a young Rooney now . He was an absolute force of nature .
 

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United and England's top goal scorer, a trophy room brimming with domestic and European triumphs, not entirely sure what more you could expect.

Unless we were literally expecting the white Pele, he's more than dignified his teenage hype.
 

thegregster

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He is really unlucky. If we won a major prize in 2009-10 or 2011-12 a lot of people would have said he carried the team. His two best goalscoring seasons happen when we won nothing major. 26 and 27 PL goals in those two seasons.
 

thepolice123

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It seems to be an unpopular opinion, but I don't think he did. He should've reached the heights of Shevchenko, for example, so a Ballon d'Or winning player in a decade that's not dominated by 2 aliens. For me, he had only reached that level once, but that injury against Bayern stopped him and this spell of absolutely ridiculous form. He also failed to produce a decent performance at the international stage aside from the 2004 Euros (for different reasons), which is something that I want from a player of his talent. He was quite great for England under Capello before that injury as well iirc.

Look at Robben or Ribery if you want a contemporary analogy. Or look at Suarez's peak — and I genuinely believe that Rooney was more talented. For me he didn't reach their level consistently enough. Absolutely loved him as a player though, especially in his younger days as a more of a supporting striker — arguably a world-class player since his teenage years...
TBF the players you named were the main men in teams which will probably be inside the top 15 club sides all of time. The team that Ronaldo left behind for Rooney to be the main man was already past its expiry date.

I think what he really lacked was a career defining season. He was also way too overhyped when he first broke through which will cloud judgements.

Its a shame both seasons where he hit his absolute peak we achieved feck all. In between his two peak seasons was one which was marred by the controversy of him leaving us for City. He came back and brought us to the CL final that season. The England team he was in was so underwhelming and one of the most boring England sides I've ever seen.
 

Kyonn

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Can you imagine if Rooney had Ronaldo's commitment to fitness? He would've been the greatest player ever.
 

RedBanker

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No he did not. He burst on to the scene at Everton as a kid who was the complete package. Skills, eye for goal, pace, movement off the ball. He never fulfilled that goalscoring potential. His career should have been about eight seasons of 20 plus goals each and two or three of 30 plus. He had one goalscoring season when he hit the numbers commensurate to his talent.
 

Born2Lose

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No, can't doubt his commitment on the pitch, but off the pitch he didn't take care of himself.

If he had I think he could have stayed at United a couple more years.
 

Trequarista10

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I would say he did not, but it depends how you interpret the question.

In terms of reaching a level of ability/performance that was as high as he could reach at any one moment in time, then you could argue he did. From age 21 to 26 or so, he was phenomenal. However, I think he could he had it in him to be even better. He showed the ability to do everything, but in my opinion never quite combined all of those things at the same time. The aggression, directness, audacity and assertiveness he had when he was younger dwindled, but he developed his finishing, heading, movement in a more calculated and restrained style. He put in performances as a 9.5 and a 9, always adjusting for the team and to his partner, but to this day its impossible to say which was his best position. As tactics moved away from playing 2 up front I expected his skill set would suit perfectly to playing as a number 10 or even in centre midfield, but he never looked comfortable in those positions. He would do a job as a wide forward in some games, but again didn't seem to excel in that role to extent he could have done given his skillset. He had periods of being excellent at set pieces, and periods where he looked like he couldn't beat a wall from a free kick or beat the first man from a corner. He had whole periods of time where he looked sluggish, or looked like he couldn't control the ball or make a simple five 5 yard pass. But then he'd score. He'd have periods of time where he absolutely dominated games, but missed chances. There was never a season or two where he put everything together with consistency.

Despite this, his career was still fantastic and he was still one of the greatest players not only of his generation but of all time. Some may say that proves he fulfilled his potential, but I'm still left with the belief that he could have done ever better.

It's also tough to gauge the extent that a likely lack of dedication off the field had (comparative to the greats of the game). Late 20s should in theory be when players put everything together and are at the their physical peak. However, Wayne was basically a full grown adult at 16, plus a few injuries here and there, so nobody can judge for certain what extent all of these factors had.
 
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KirkDuyt

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Mostly yes if you ask me. He might've had 2 or 3 more good years in him if he skipped the pub, but he had a stellar career nonetheless.
 

always_hoping

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was outstanding in 2009/10 and 2011/12 seasons when he scored 34 goals both seasons. Up there with the best players for the club in the last 30 years when in top form and was pure leader that hated losing any game.
 

Denis' cuff

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No, can't doubt his commitment on the pitch, but off the pitch he didn't take care of himself.

If he had I think he could have stayed at United a couple more years.
basically this. I think we just wanted a bit more of him and really should have. His unselfishness also left you wanting for more. I think it was the season after CR left, he racked up a goal tally worthy of himself after doing CRs dirty work for him. Still, in hindsight, glad he reached those goal records because he deserved them. Always a real team player. Was a bit sad to see him decline (which coincided with the teams decline) prematurely but really, can hardly complain.
 

Tomuś

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It's too complicated to say either way.

He was better than Ronaldo at the age of 16-19 so if you see that as 'potential' and look how Ronaldo panned out later, then however it sounds no, he didn't.

After turning 20 + Ronaldo's work ethic told and he was improving all the time, with each year. It's entirely possible that Ronaldo actually exceeded his potential thanks to a unsatiable hunger. Rooney on the other hand was adding some weapons to his artillery but would also lose some explosiveness. Then he also wasn't as consistent as Ronaldo. I also think that him being better than Ronaldo in teenage years was in some part down to his physique and football IQ developed at such a young age. He had a man's body at the age of 15 while Ronaldo was a skinny, rough diamond with questionable decision-making.

To sum it up I think it's plausible that Rooney fulfilled his potential while Ronaldo exceeded it. That's why he's deemed superior and rightly so.