Did Rooney fulfill his potential?

hobbers

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He was a victim of being too good in too many positions.

He couldn't have done much more club-wise. Record goal scorer, Prem titles, CL win.

International-wise, who cares other than England fans. :lol:
 

Jeppers7

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To contradict my last post; yes but with a caveat: Rooney was team wise, more talented than Ronaldo imo but not Messi.
You add Ronaldo's professionalism to Rooney's style and you have a player better than the current Ronaldo.
Ronaldo is/was has always been better. Rooney was more mature....never as talented and overall absolutely miles behind Ronaldo who is legitimately one of the greatest players of all time. Rooney is not.
 

Jeppers7

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There was a time when rooney was 2nd best player in the world then the 3rd best in my opinion.. the only problem with his career was the longevity. If he had the passion and work ethic of ronaldo and zlatan hed still be a top player even today
This time never existed....Rooney was a great player. Their were many more who didn’t play for United and England who were equally as good and more than 1-2 who were better. Scholes was better for a start.
 

spiriticon

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Yes. I still think he's the most talented English player of the last generation.

He could play anywhere to a high standard. Ask him to lead the line? No problem. Ask him to support others? No problem. Ask him to dictate the tempo? No problem.

Good set piece taker too.
 
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So from 2003-2006 he was the second best player in the world? This is the reason this thread exists. The complete overblown hype. He was a great player. There were many more.
I said in his age group. And from 2003-2006 he was the best player in the world in his age group as Messi didn’t come along until 2006/07
 

Foxbatt

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Yes. I still think he's the most talented English player of the last generation.

He could play anywhere to a high standard. Ask him to lead the line? No problem. Ask him to support others? No problem. Ask him to dictate the tempo? No problem.

Good set piece taker too.
He can defend very well too. According to SAF he can play in goal to a decent level too.
 

AKDevil

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Yes. Top scorer for United and England. Won everything there is to win. Hard to say that’s not potential fulfilled. Expectations of wonder boys are (very) often beyond realism if Rooney can do that and people can say that’s not fulfilled potential.
 

TheReligion

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If so, when?

I think ^ that's where opinions split - the timing. Although it wouldn't surprise me if there are football fans that say he didn't fulfilled his potential, which I may agree in someway.

Just seen this good video and it asked one good question "Did he truly fulfill his potential?". I don't think the vid answer their own question directly though.

OPinion
In my opinion, he did for 4 seasons.
Season 06/07 is when he fulfilled his potential, and he carried it on until arguably season 09/10.

Why?
Seasons after 06/07, I don't see any aspects of his game that are improving. None. That season 16/17 is the final season where Rooney showed "newer" abilities especially in the passing and temperament departments. I don't see any improvements anymore from him. After 09/10, I notice a decline in his physical abilities, then his all around football abilities too gradually declining albeit at a slow rate. SAF turning him into more of a CF role or stay higher up the field with a shift in system to compensate that are the right decisions to "maintain" Wayne's goal scoring abilities and getting the best out of him overall as he continues to decline.

Many will argued his goal-scoring ability and other abilities in the box namely hold-up, post-play, heading, poaching and fox in the box improved in 09/10, but I say that's a matter of switching into a roles that necessitates Rooney to do more of those than Wayne's incapability in doing any of that with the top qualities he showcased in that season. In simple words, he can already do all of those before, but he's playing different roles so it's rare to see him do those.

The unique thing about Rooney is how he's already too good when he breakthrough into Everton's first team and consequently quickly becoming a key starting 11 for both England NT but more so with us Manchester United. Below are how he is since the very start. He's ridiculously good this early before he's 20, it's freaky. Special player in a way.

Strengths
1. Physical abilities - already maximum top level. It's freaky. All-around have everything - fitness, strength, pace, speed, agility, aggression and acrobatics.

2. Football intelligence - a natural of the game. Instinct-based type. Almost always, his decisions makings (if he's in the right temper) is always right. He more often than not choose the right options - to pass or not, to shoot or not, right time to dribbles or not, etc. Rooney's natural ability to fit in all kinds of tactics (yes even LVG's philosophy) almost like a glove and to play comaptibly with any players are just impressively a proof of his natural football instinct intelligence. Note that it's not street-smart, you know the dark arts of football which Rooney is bad at using each time he tried.

3. Team-player - he's an extreme team player. It's rare for someone of his abilities to be this willing to sacrifice himself for the team and actually he doesn't mind playing "second fiddle" to other teammates, as long as that #1 player is a "worthy star player" eg. RVN, CR7, Owen and Zlatan, basically players he respect and regarded as that. Contrast this to players like Berbatov and RVP, I don't think Rooney is totally happy, though that's just speculations. From what I see, the way he play is totally different between the two categories. I'm not including striker partners whom he enjoy playing with here mind eg. Saha and Tevez.

4. Football abilities - all-around he's almost complete already, high levels, just need slight more improvements in few aspects. This is the major reason along with his top physical abilitiesHe literally can do everything, just need more games to get the experiences to improve those. I don't think he needs any coaching in any of the stated four aspects at all, unless you count anger management as coaching.

5. Mentality - winner, fighter and strong challenger. Just need a bit of maturity and control in temperament, right channels of emotions. I think this is why he's willing to listen well to top coaches and follow their instructions to the tee, because he's a winner, along with strong awareness of good football tactics when he sees his manager as top coaches. I think it's just with Moyes where he sort of "rebel" in a way he half-hearted follow the shit crossings after crossings instructions. This is why I felt a potential of Rooney improving in this aspect because he's willing to make the step-up early on and hungry enough to change career in a good career projectory that he made the step-up to work with SAF, and listen instead of complaining and rebel. I believe there are other offers at that time right?

Weaknesses
1. Temperament - as we know, he tends to let emotions gets in the way, and opposing team use this, they like to riled him up and before it often works, refs too had no choice but to book him. Working with SAF is the right choice and perfect next step for his career.

2. Maturity & Discipline - similarly, we know how Rooney were, on and off the pitch. This put his career and reputations at risk, thus even the treatment he got when on the field eg. refs tend to book him after any challenges, etc. He became much much more mature thankfully from working with SAF who insist on it.

3. Passing - I don't rate his all-around passing abilities from the start. There are many flaws. His long pass and cross are good enough but still in a way rusty and can be refined and improved. Thankfully he did later on, quickly too. Seeing Scholes performing it everyday in training is a sight to behold.

So what did all those show?
And that's it. Very few weaknesses from the very start and he's already that good. Need just a good refinement which only SAF can do, doubt other manager can. The different roles he play affected his goal-scoring statistics. If his roles is to play as the main goalscorer and play more inside the box instead of spending time moving deeper to help deeper, then for sure his goals will already be higher than how it is now. He started as a free roaming SS who literally go anywhere on the pitch. When performing that roles early on, I can already see his abilities in heading, poaching, goal-scoring instinct, hold up play, etc. It's all already there. He's just not doing it more, preferring to be in the build up and combative actions elsewhere than focus to remain in the box.

Stats and Contexts?
Note that Statistics doesn't always tell the whole stories. That's the limitations of stats, without contexts., it's laughably weak. Consider the different of roles he played earlier and later. It's starkly different and the stats backed those up.

Starting season 07/08, his injuries get worse and worse, thus his body started to get affected leading to first his quick declining physical abilities alongside gradual slow decline of overall football abilities. His goal-scoring abilities albeit declining is still at top level, thus the stats showed all that when his roles are more into staying up and score, but we know it gets worse in 16/17 onwards and at the top level, its no longer enough. His natural instinct-type football intelligence does maintained until now, hence he still able to follow and fit in well with the different tactics and maintain making good decisions makings and positioning, while still showing natural goal-scoring instincts. The biggest problem is at the top level, his physical abilities is not enough to match his natural goals instinct. He can only show it a lower levels nowadays isn't it.

Conclusion?
He first fulfilled his potential in season 06/07, and remain in his peak best until 09/10.

But you may define "potential" differently. I see it as a player maximum best possible or projected/forecasted improvements in total sum of football abilities (physical, intelligence, technical, tactical, etc), temperament and mentality. And no doubt Rooney max all three main categories of that quickly. Cristiano Ronaldo for me exceeded his potential in contrast.
He's the club's all time record goal scorer.

Yes he fulfilled his potential.
 

Schmeichel's Cartwheel

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Probably not, no. He had the potential to be an all time football great, and I would say he’s probably just an English football great. He also didn’t have a long peak, he was pretty much finished at the top level by 28, Fergie spotted this & would have sold him had he not retired. Considering he & Ronaldo were constantly compared for a time when they were breaking through, it’s kinda crazy when you consider Rooney has been finished for the better part of a decade & Ronaldo is still doing it at an elite level despite being the older of the two. I guess it goes to show just how important a clean diet & keeping your fitness in check is. For me Rooney was comfortably the better natural talent, yet Ronaldo is the all time great & Rooney isn’t.

Still had a cracking career mind. His time was 2006-2012. His overall game had faded a bit on 11-12 & he just turned into an absolute goal machine.
 
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OrcaFat

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I’m afraid he did not come close to the player he could have been. His conditioning was not very good for significant parts of his career. He also had the metatarsal injury. Too much off the field shite as well. His attitude hindered his positional discipline. For raw talent he was hard to beat.
 

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Probably not, no. He had the potential to be an all time football great, and I would say he’s probably just an English football great. He also didn’t have a long peak, he was pretty much finished at the top level by 28, Fergie spotted this & would have sold him had he not retired. Considering he & Ronaldo were constantly compared for a time when they were breaking through, it’s kinda crazy when you consider Rooney has been finished for the better part of a decade & Ronaldo is still doing it at an elite level despite being the older of the two. I guess it goes to show just how important a clean diet & keeping your fitness in check is. For me Rooney was comfortably the better natural talent, yet Ronaldo is the all time great & Rooney isn’t.

Still had a cracking career mind. His time was 2006-2012. His overall game had faded a bit on 11-12 & he just turned into an absolute goal machine.
This is the most accurate answer I think.
 

OrcaFat

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Probably not, no. He had the potential to be an all time football great, and I would say he’s probably just an English football great. He also didn’t have a long peak, he was pretty much finished at the top level by 28, Fergie spotted this & would have sold him had he not retired. Considering he & Ronaldo were constantly compared for a time when they were breaking through, it’s kinda crazy when you consider Rooney has been finished for the better part of a decade & Ronaldo is still doing it at an elite level despite being the older of the two. I guess it goes to show just how important a clean diet & keeping your fitness in check is. For me Rooney was comfortably the better natural talent, yet Ronaldo is the all time great & Rooney isn’t.

Still had a cracking career mind. His time was 2006-2012. His overall game had faded a bit on 11-12 & he just turned into an absolute goal machine.


Yeah, good post.

In addition to shortcomings which may have been within his power to correct, he did have some bad luck with injuries and red cards as well.
 

Bwuk

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No.

He had all the talent in the world but didn’t have the dedication to take him to the next level.

If Ferguson hadnt retired hed of moved him on the summer he retired.

He was a unbelievable player, but he never hit the heights of even the likes of Suarez. Rooney had the ability to be the best of his generation.
 

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The Rooney 2009-10 version of Rooney was just immense. I mean he suddenly just added headed goals to his game like it was nothing at all. I feel he was never quite the same after that injury in the Bayern game and the disaster of a World Cup (although he certainly had his moments in the following season, especially in the title run-in.) What I would do to have a prime Wayne Rooney in this team...
 

jem

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No.

He had all the talent in the world but didn’t have the dedication to take him to the next level.

If Ferguson hadnt retired hed of moved him on the summer he retired.

He was a unbelievable player, but he never hit the heights of even the likes of Suarez. Rooney had the ability to be the best of his generation.
I think he hit the heights of Suarez, but he didn't sustain it.
 

Jeppers7

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Probably not, no. He had the potential to be an all time football great, and I would say he’s probably just an English football great. He also didn’t have a long peak, he was pretty much finished at the top level by 28, Fergie spotted this & would have sold him had he not retired. Considering he & Ronaldo were constantly compared for a time when they were breaking through, it’s kinda crazy when you consider Rooney has been finished for the better part of a decade & Ronaldo is still doing it at an elite level despite being the older of the two. I guess it goes to show just how important a clean diet & keeping your fitness in check is. For me Rooney was comfortably the better natural talent, yet Ronaldo is the all time great & Rooney isn’t.

Still had a cracking career mind. His time was 2006-2012. His overall game had faded a bit on 11-12 & he just turned into an absolute goal machine.
Rooney was nowhere near as naturally talented. Ronaldo’s touch, technique and weight of pass....never mind skill were on another level. Rooney was more mature as a teen. That’s where comparisons end. Rooney was a great player. Ronaldo was always a generational talent. One of the greatest who ever lived.
 

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Isn't it weird how Rooney is lamented for his conditioning whereas R9 is heralded as one of the best ever despite having a shorter peak and achieving less (maybe) in his career.

For me, he 100% fulfilled his potential.
 

Eyepopper

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Define potential...

You're comparing an imagined idea versus reality.

The reality is he played for the biggest club in the world, won everything he could with them, established himself as a legend, and left as their top ever goal scorer.

He also finished as top ever goal scorer for his country.

He was an absolutely fabulous player, on just about every level.

Now, as to whether he fulfilled his 'potential', we have to go back to what your imagined version of him fulfilling his potential is.
 

Jim Beam

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Not for me and that is only because I expected that he would become one of all-time great strikers/forwards in the game (top 10 company).
That is how ridiculously good he looked at the start of his career. Would bet my house (well fathers one if am more precise) at the time that we are seeing future multiple Ballon d'Or winner.

Despite all that, still one hell of a career when all is said and done.
 

edcunited1878

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Did Rooney fulfill his potential or your expectations?

For a player who got a lot of his raw talent from playing with his mates and was physically mature beyond his years, I think he did fulfill his potential and then some. He was never this cultured footballer from a prestigious academy who danced around players, etc.

It wasn't graceful or immensely 'smooth' or at ridiculously high technical ability, but he was brutally effective and was a top player. Never really confined to a position either as he was a CAM/SS/CF/forward. Wasn't the most technically skilled player, which didn't allow him to play as a traditional CM a la Giggs or Scholes when they went central for a little bit.
 
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He was never the best player in the world. However you want to paint it.
Not sure of your comprehension level. I never said he was the best player in the world. I said between 2003 to 2005/6 he was the best player in the world in his age group, big difference.

If you can remember a 18-21 year old who was performing better at that time then please name and I’m open to reassessing.

In 2006 Ronaldo stepped up, and the younger Messi became a regular in the Barca team.
 

atkar83

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One thing to consider is how much it would have impacted United if he didn't join us after Everton. What if he went to Liverpool, Arsenal or Chelsea? While he never became a perennial balon d'or finalist here, he lead the charge to many trophies. Had he joined someone else, I don't think we win anywhere near as many Premier League titles or tournaments.

So as a player, he may not have reached his peak potential for as long as would have been expected. But as a United purchase, I think he surpassed expectations/potential.
 

Foxbatt

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He sacrificed also for the team. If Ronaldo was not at United Rooney at his peak would have been the main man. We tend to remember his last years where his decline has already started. Without him we would not have the FA Cup under LVG.
 

The Oracle

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At international level, his performances on the biggest stage (the World Cup), where he scored just one goal in 11 matches, suggests that he didn't fulfil his potential at the highest level of his profession.

The counter argument to that is that he lit up a Euro's at 18 years of age, and he also went on to become England's highest ever goalscorer, beating the previous record held by the great Bobby Charlton.

At club level, he unquestionably fulfilled his potential. His work rate was phenomenal and so were a lot of his goals. He also went on to become Utd's highest ever goalscorer - again beating the previous record held by the great Bobby Charlton.
You have to remember the silverware he won as well...

How many players can say they have won:
- The Premier League
- The Champions League
- The FA Cup
- The League Cup
- The Europa League
- The Club World Cup

Not even John Terry can claim to have won all of those trophies :smirk:
 

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For those that missed out on watching Keane and Cantona. Rooney is the closest in terms of drive to win. Record goalscorer for club and country. Great teammate and scorer of great goals. Trophies galore. Just look at the highlight for one of his MLS games where he tracks back to stop n open goal then puts ina peach of a cross for the last minute winner. Not a single player in our current squad would/could do something like that. Absolute legend who fulfilled his potential.
 

treble_winner

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I think he hit the heights of Suarez, but he didn't sustain it.
At his prime, Rooney is an absolute force of nature. He is better than Suarez, Costa and Aguero. His prime didn't last that long, though.
 

harms

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So from 2003-2006 he was the second best player in the world? This is the reason this thread exists. The complete overblown hype. He was a great player. There were many more.
He said at that age. As is in his age group, not in the world.
 

ti vu

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Isn't it weird how Rooney is lamented for his conditioning whereas R9 is heralded as one of the best ever despite having a shorter peak and achieving less (maybe) in his career.

For me, he 100% fulfilled his potential.
R9 topped everyone at his peak. Maybe that helps? Won World Cup being top scorer, only a goal shy to Klose who took over due to longevity, while Rooney outside of his first Euro was pretty meh for a player of such profile.

For someone who went down hill fast despite not sustaining career ending injuries, it only makes Rooney look bad if you like to go that route.
 

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I think it's clear, or rather kinda unclear - the answer is both yes and no. No in that his ceiling was possibly even higher, or at least his peak could've been longer, and certainly without the sharp cliff. Yes in that he was brilliant for us for a long time, and truly great for a part of that. Either way, I'm certainly not disapointed with what he gave us.
 

Desert Eagle

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Prime Suarez was at least as good as, if not better than, Rooney.
prime suarez would edge it in terms of dribbling and one on one finishing. Rooney would beat suarez in workrate, defending, adaptability, power. I'd take prime rooney personally.
 

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Yes, he most certantly did. Rooney in his prime.. holy hell what a baller. Beast that absolutely fulfilled his potential. God, i miss that man.

Now, if he could have upheld his prime longer? Probably, but keep in mind that Rooney was destroying world class football teams at age 17.
 

Yagami

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I say this a lot but it's unfortunate that his peak came inbetween Ronaldo and Tevez leaving and van Persie joining. Especially in Robin's case. If Rooney had just maintained his form and physique from only just the previous season; that could've been something special.
 

rollingstoned1

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Not fully.

To make an obvious point, he could've been more professional with regard to taking care of himself beyond the pitch. That might have slowed down his decline - which started too early, and was too steep.

Don't get me wrong - breaking through, and becoming a first team regular at the highest level, as early as he did was always likely to have an impact. But Rooney clearly could have done a better job taking care of himself (nobody forced the beers, chips or fags on him during off-season).

Rooney with Ronaldo's work ethic* (beyond the pitch) would have been a better player. So - no - he did not fully fulfill his potential.

* Or, if you think Ronaldo is too much of an outlier - let's just say something like Ronaldo's work ethic.
that point isn't invalid but isn't it worth seeing what fergie said in his autobiography? i feel rooney had an upper limit as far as hit fitness went and being a prodigy at 16 meant by the time he was 30 he already had many more miles on the clock than most players that age would have. expecting a giggs-like career wouldn't have been all that realistic. i feel it is a testament to fergie that Rooney did not end up like Gascoigne which was one of his regrets. by the time he ended his career he wasn't even the hothead he was in his teens.
 

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Won most of the major trophies, gave his best years to this club, sacrificed all over the pitch for us. His club and country top scorer. How is this even a discussion people?
 

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No he did not. He burst on to the scene at Everton as a kid who was the complete package. Skills, eye for goal, pace, movement off the ball. He never fulfilled that goalscoring potential. His career should have been about eight seasons of 20 plus goals each and two or three of 30 plus. He had one goalscoring season when he hit the numbers commensurate to his talent.
He was an unreliable goalscorer yes, but to be fair he played second fiddle to Ronaldo for at least a couple of years. The season he hit good numbers was the season after Ronaldo left.

I think the fact he achieved what he achieved despite his lifestyle is a testament to his talent and natural abilities. I wonder what numbers he'd be putting up if he was like Ronaldo in terms of off the field lifestyle.

Should've left when Fergie retired. The drop in quality from him due to him not being coached by Ferguson was staggering. Once he lost his fire, someone to push him, or got too comfortable being pandered to as the main man, he lost his edge.
 

RedBanker

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He was an unreliable goalscorer yes, but to be fair he played second fiddle to Ronaldo for at least a couple of years. The season he hit good numbers was the season after Ronaldo left.

I think the fact he achieved what he achieved despite his lifestyle is a testament to his talent and natural abilities. I wonder what numbers he'd be putting up if he was like Ronaldo in terms of off the field lifestyle.

Should've left when Fergie retired. The drop in quality from him due to him not being coached by Ferguson was staggering. Once he lost his fire, someone to push him, or got too comfortable being pandered to as the main man, he lost his edge.
This. Ronaldo was the main man. Perhaps Rooney was happy playing secobd fiddle because it took a lot of pressure off him? If he had the ego and drive of CR, then definitely he would have gone all out in competing with him for goals and records.
 

RedBanker

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All said and done, the match against Fener was the best debut game I have seen in my life. "I am over the moon, we've got the Roon!"