Tbh, I’d happily wait 7 years as I think it’ll take us many more
Did United Rebuild the Wrong Way Round?
- Thread starter Walters_19_MuFc
- Start date
Fixing defence is easy as you don't have to spend astronomical transfer fees, for 40M we can get a good defender.
We tried Martinez, Maz, Deligt and Yoro (150M), unfortunately injuries are a major concern and on top of that they don't have pace to play high line.
So we need to purge it(Harry, Martinez and Shaw must go) and go for a new defence line with Yoro and Heaven as a backup option.
If we sort out defence next year, add a speedy winger to the mix then we can challenge league in 2027-28, we are on track guys...Trust Berrada/Wilcox.
Right now lot of us are down because of weekend result, but once we sort out our act and put a winning run, this place will be jumping in joy discussing how good and shrewd our last 2 summer windows have been.
We tried Martinez, Maz, Deligt and Yoro (150M), unfortunately injuries are a major concern and on top of that they don't have pace to play high line.
So we need to purge it(Harry, Martinez and Shaw must go) and go for a new defence line with Yoro and Heaven as a backup option.
If we sort out defence next year, add a speedy winger to the mix then we can challenge league in 2027-28, we are on track guys...Trust Berrada/Wilcox.
Right now lot of us are down because of weekend result, but once we sort out our act and put a winning run, this place will be jumping in joy discussing how good and shrewd our last 2 summer windows have been.
When a new manager arrives at any club, usually when the club is not going in the perceived right direction, is when the 'new manager bounce' is often witnessed.
In its simplest form it is a new manager who whilst he may know some of his squad, probably doesn't know many. Carrick had something of a head start coming in as interim manager at OT, but his response was the same as others in his position, make do with what you got, adapt, study the opposition for the next match and use whatever collective strengths you might have to get a result. You are not thinking about the next match or style of play, or anything, else just beat what is in front of you. The new man ignites/empowers his players, even those thought to have been heading for the door, get a second chance.
Carrick did exceptionally well, aided by having only the league to concentrate on, and pulled off something near to a miracle last season in getting the club back into Europe.
New season, but now as permanent manager, new players coming in, thoughts of what style he (and the fans) believe he should be playing, etc.getting caught up with the pre-season routine, late comebacks, players returning who perhaps you really don't want to be here, (but cannot show that feeling).
It is a new season, but you are not going to win the title on day one (but as the saying goes you could lose it), lets try one or two things out, the opposition don't look that dangerous, limited attacking power (on the break) 'low block' defense we should be able to break down with all our talent... get our lads to strut their stuff!!
The 'living on the edge' has gone for the new man; his mind is wandering, even when the (so called) poor opposition burst through like his team were not even concentrating, letting opposition players run by them etc. and score... no need to panic, no need to change things, "we are better than them"!
Are we rebuilding things the wrong way round.... afraid it looks like it?
In its simplest form it is a new manager who whilst he may know some of his squad, probably doesn't know many. Carrick had something of a head start coming in as interim manager at OT, but his response was the same as others in his position, make do with what you got, adapt, study the opposition for the next match and use whatever collective strengths you might have to get a result. You are not thinking about the next match or style of play, or anything, else just beat what is in front of you. The new man ignites/empowers his players, even those thought to have been heading for the door, get a second chance.
Carrick did exceptionally well, aided by having only the league to concentrate on, and pulled off something near to a miracle last season in getting the club back into Europe.
New season, but now as permanent manager, new players coming in, thoughts of what style he (and the fans) believe he should be playing, etc.getting caught up with the pre-season routine, late comebacks, players returning who perhaps you really don't want to be here, (but cannot show that feeling).
It is a new season, but you are not going to win the title on day one (but as the saying goes you could lose it), lets try one or two things out, the opposition don't look that dangerous, limited attacking power (on the break) 'low block' defense we should be able to break down with all our talent... get our lads to strut their stuff!!
The 'living on the edge' has gone for the new man; his mind is wandering, even when the (so called) poor opposition burst through like his team were not even concentrating, letting opposition players run by them etc. and score... no need to panic, no need to change things, "we are better than them"!
Are we rebuilding things the wrong way round.... afraid it looks like it?
Torch the stadium, burn the jerseys… and let’s delete this site right now… this is like when Troy burnt..
You asked me what happened if Baleba is not available, or has an off game. What about you tell me what happened when Partey was not available, or had an off game in 21/22? Neither their stop gap signings like Lokonga and Viera were fit the profile and neither were mobile. So your point trying to use Arsenal's transfer strategy to sign stop gap cannot be called right or wrong. Hypothetically, if we sign Tchouameni, Baleba, and Tielemans, then what happened if Baleba is not available, or has an off game? We would still have Tchouameni. So it's still right to focus on certain areas without signing stop gap. The issue is not about focussing on certain areas (Midfield only and put up with what we have), the issue is whether we sign the right profile of midfielder but that's not related to your argument that we should not just focus on certain areas and we should do like what Arsenal did by signing stop gaps.
If you think we are not done in the market then you should not make assumption that we only focus on certain areas (like signing midfield only) because we might still sign FB and forward. So we might still sign Raum or Balde or Kadioglu, and etc. So I'm not sure what are you complaining for here if you think we are not done in the market.
Santos has been a signing that I questioned especially consider that we chose to abandon Ederson's signing who might fit the profile you ask for as an aerial threat but that doesn't change the fact that we still need to sign 3 midfielders. The fact that you suggested Tyler Adams, he is also going to cost the same or more than Santos. I haven't watch Shea Charles so I don't know whether he fits the profile, but he cost £30m so £15m saving from Ederson or £20m saving from Shea Charles ain't gonna get us CB when someone like Muharemovic cost £35m and Vuskovic cost £50m. So that still won't be enough to allow us to buy the 1 or 2 CB, 1 or 2 FB, and 3 midfield in 1 window to allow us to play high up the pitch. In addition, you need to consider whether those players even want to come to United as backup options.
Lukeba would be ideal for CB option but he would cost €80m, we will never going to spend that kind of money by just loaning out Heaven without selling Licha this summer. Lukeba as LB option won't fit the profile because our LW is not a type of winger who can dribble in tight space and can cross. For us to consider Lukeba as LB option, we will need a left winger who can dribble in tight space and cross but we are being restricted to sign this LW because we failed to sell Rashford. The idea of trying to copy Man City or Arsenal playing CB as FB won't work because they have wingers who can dribble in tight space and cross.
Like I mentioned before, you cannot try to use other club strategy or approach and call it right or wrong without considering what the circumstance and the situation the club are in. Right now, we have 5 CB, so it will be almost unrealistic if you think we will sign CB without selling 1 or 2 CB given that we are very short in midfield after losing 2 midfielders (Ugarte & Casemiro) and short in left back. Even if we sign a CB like Lukeba for CB and LB cover, we would still need to sign LB or LW for the reasons that I mentioned above.
I don't know why you're taking Arsenal as an exact model, that's obviously not what I'm saying. The bold is my exact point and you know it is because you've read the next paragraph where I was posing alternatives to spending £150m on the players we have that addresses the profiles and is a broader investment in the squad. My point is with Baleba is the only profile in our squad. Like that, Arsenal still had various profiles like El Neny, Xhaka and Lokonga who could fill in. I'm not saying "do exactly how Arsenal did it". I'm saying look at the team that has built their squad from 8th, to winning the league and CL finalists - in 6 years. They obiviously did things right and the Arsenal fan even agreed on my general point, so I think you're just misunderstanding my point, considering he got it.
I don't think we're done, but I think we've overspent on inapproriate profiles for the midfield rebuild, which has hampered our ability to sign the quality of FB or Forward - also my preference of a CB/LB. We will see if we do, but the fact it's 5-6 days from the deadline and we haven't moved on a LB, despite players we're linked with having release clauses, tells me that our budget is tight. So it goes back to my point of getting the right profiles in for the deficiences in the squad. We have depth now in midfield, but not really depth of profile with only one Baleba, no LB depth and no depth in attack. That doesn't seem like we've spent our budget wisely.
Yeah, again, I'm not saying the midfielder has to have an aerial threat, but someone we sign does. So if you spend the bulk of your budget without addressing that point and you got into the season and it's immediately targeted by someone like Hull, it's just obvious there's been a mistake. You're not reading or understanding my example, because I specifically said "if they were cheap". The example of Adams was that I think he's an inferior quality player to who we should be targeting, but he at least is the right profile. Same with Robinson. It is if you plan the signings properly, I don't think you need Santos, Tielemans and Baleba for what they cost. You can take two of them and supplement the 3rd midfielder for a cheaper option, which would give you more money to get Hall or more money to get the cheaper LB option and Forward - perhaps even having enough money to address the CB problem.
You can hypothetically if you don't buy all 3 midfielders we have. Tielemans, Baleba and Lukeba would be within budget - as an example. I disagree, but it doesn't necessarily need to be Lukeba, they are just demonstrative examples of profiles.
I don't know why you're being so binary. I'm giving you an example who did squad building well and you can just dismiss it entirely because we're not exactly the same as them, or you can actually look at the key themes that made it sucessful. Thing is we don't actually have 5 CBs that our manager trusts or are available. You may have 5 CBs registered, but one has been out a year and won't be back until late September, one could do with a loan, Yoro doesn't seem like he's rated at all and he's the only pace option. We could still sign a LB on loan, or Salinas for peanuts if we needed a LB, it just about how you use your budget. I had the exact same gripe last year, did we need to spend £200m on attack and completely neglect midfield? No. It's a choice of how we spent our budget and it wasn't the only option available to us.
Because you were the one who used Arsenal as the model in your original post (see below link).
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/did-united-rebuild-the-wrong-way-round.493188/post-34566214
The bold mark I mentioned was not exact your point, your point was that we should not focusing on one area of the pitch (like what we did this summer transfer window spending most of the budget of 150m on 3 midfield) and your reason was it's not a holistic approach and leaves obvious gaps. My counter was, it's still okay for us to spend most of the budget of 150m on 3 midfield as long as the 3 midfield meet the profile. There is no right or wrong in which approach to go, there is no fixed approach/model. The approach/model depends on the club's circumstances/situation.
When you mentioned Arsenal model. For instance, in 21/22, Arsenal lost much more first team players in different areas than us such as David Luiz, Chambers, Kolasinac, Willock, Aubameyang, and Willian. On contrary this season, we lost 2 midfield only Casemiro and Ugarte's injury, and we still have 5 CBs in the squad and added Rashford to our attack, which makes 6 attackers in the squad without even including Zirkzee. Hence Arsenal and United have different approach as both were in different circumstances/situation. The approach is different but the objective is the same signing players to improve their squad depth, replacing what they lost, and upgrading players that they can sell. We lost 2 midfield, so we signed 2 midfield, we needed 3rd midfield signing to improve our midfield depth.
In 22/23, they lost Lacazette, Pepe, Cedric, Tavares, Lokonga. Once again, they lost in different areas, hence why they didn't just focus on one area of the pitch. The idea of loaning players require planning first because signing stop gap players could also stop us making new signing next summer. For instance, if we loan Heaven as what you suggested before then we sign new stop gap LCB. Then next season we would have 3 LCB (Licha, Heaven, and stop gap LCB signing). That doesn't sound a good planning to rebuild the squad as we will need to sell 2 LCB to buy new proper LCB. Hence why I said realistically, for us to sign CB this season, we will need to sell our CB first.