Diego Armando Maradona

Platini was better.

Not entirely in the exact same period, some cases on the extrems of it, yet Platini, Bochini (you lot don't know what you've missed), Zico, Kempes, Hoddle, Maradona, Francescolli, Baggio what a fantastic period for all around creative mids/forwards and sometimes arbitrary or merely t-shirt number 10's

PD: taking account style, Butrageño and Futre also can be there, an lesser names like Scifo too.
 
There were 23 fouls by Gentile on Maradona in that game (he was booked in the second half… and so was Maradona, funnily enough).

This also tells you a lot:
most-fouled-players-in-world-cup-v0-5098p4qt39wd1.jpeg


That it's sthg. that rarely it's said, but in Zico's, Platini's and Diego's time (like happened in the 90's and even nowadays), not few times the skilled one are booked for simply protesting (like that particular case with Diego against Italy) or when they retalliate (like Diego against Brazil in the same Cup, where him and Zico were massacred and Diego also was already mad for not receiving a penalty clear as day).

In the early days, mostly in the 60's and prior to it, offensive players were massacre, but they could not only retalliate, they could be mean and sometimes as over the top as defenders. Refs were more permissive for both sides, obviously this nonetheless perjudicated a lot more the offensive ones. Sivori and Pele were quite mean mofos and many power forwards would kill keepers and defenders when scoring too.
 
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Not entirely in the exact same period, some cases on the extrems of it, yet Platini, Bochini (you lot don't know what you've missed), Zico, Kempes, Hoddle, Maradona, Francescolli, Baggio what a fantastic period for all around creative mids/forwards and sometimes arbitrary or merely t-shirt number 10's

PD: taking account style, Butrageño and Futre also can be there, an lesser names like Scifo too.

It is not a slight on Maradona at all, I am just of the belief that Platini was better overall.

Wow what a list of players :o I miss football from when the classic number 10 was prominent, even a little later with Del Piero, Hagi, Michael Laudrup, Rui Costa etc
 
It is not a slight on Maradona at all, I am just of the belief that Platini was better overall.

Wow what a list of players :o I miss football from when the classic number 10 was prominent, even a little later with Del Piero, Hagi, Michael Laudrup, Rui Costa etc

There is no issue there, meaning that I do not bash people's prefferences and way less if that it's Michel.
I preffer Diego, but I wasn't dissing your choice at all. Your post just reminded me of that period that perhaps it's my favorite one, that BTW also doesn't has to be the best, just my prefference for all aorund magical midfielders.
WC 82 it's my favorite Cup.
 
Not entirely in the exact same period, some cases on the extrems of it, yet Platini, Bochini (you lot don't know what you've missed), Zico, Kempes, Hoddle, Maradona, Francescolli, Baggio what a fantastic period for all around creative mids/forwards and sometimes arbitrary or merely t-shirt number 10's

PD: taking account style, Butrageño and Futre also can be there, an lesser names like Scifo too.
The creative players now are way more protected than they used to be but they are none better than the few mentioned in this, I think the role of every player has changed since the 80/90s but the classic 10 is the one I miss the most, safe passes, making good stats,
 
Looking at the fouls compilation it's somewhat under appreciated how long some of the past greats lasted considering the punishments they took.
 
Looking at the fouls compilation it's somewhat under appreciated how long some of the past greats lasted considering the punishments they took.
That's the reason why players were classed over the hill after 30. There bodies took so much physical abuse, it was not possible to carry on. Zico, Platini, Pele all were done by 30.

So when people try to include longevity as a form of greatness, it's not fair on the players of that generation. There is no way Messi and Ronaldo would be still playing this long, had they been playing back in them days.
 
Platini was better.
Not this again.

Here to soothe your pain, a 1987 Word XI vs Rest of the World match at Wembley with Platini and Maradona in the same team. Rinat Dasayev (God, I loved that GK) and Paulo Futre were in also in it. Hoddle, Shilton and Robson were in the opposing one.

The boos whenever Maradona touches the ball are hilarious. That 1986 WC quarter final still stung.

 
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I don't like players being reduced to stats either but in case of the player Maradona is compared to most frequently - Lionel Messi - I think it is fair enough to point it out because the latter is easily the best of his generation at making productive plays that don't show up in scoring stats as well.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Maradona and every once in a while I go back to watching the highlight clips of him again but not despite but because of it I appreciate Messi even more because he combines those absolutely unreal plays with a football IQ that is beyond anything we've seen in the game. The more you think about it, the more absurd it becomes that Messi actually combines this allround play with all-time great scoring statistics. And the older I get, the more I appreciate the less obvious skills of a player like game reading, spatial awareness, off the ball movement etc. since they are probably the most decisive qualities a top player can have.

In terms of pure footballing ability, Maradona might surpass Messi. His technical qualities and artistry were out of this world. But Messi's productivity on top of being his equal in terms of dribbling and passing (at least if you go by effectiveness first and foremost) is absolutely mindblowing.
You'll find me in complete agreement with your post. I personally consider Messi as the greatest footballer I've ever seen.

I'd even say that even in terms of pure footballing ability it comes down to personal preference. Maradona was a better leader, a bit more flashy and a better header of the ball, but I couldn't for the life of me put one above the other. There's no question for me that Messi is the only player that I've seen who could display such a sublime talent and complete understanding of the game whilst churning out those insane numbers for such a long period of time.

My post is first and foremost a reaction to the generalized, inane habit of reducing the career of a sportsman to numbers while ignoring the context in which these players evolved.
 
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Yep, Don Alfredo should be one the first names on the list. Also, while the premise of the original post is sound, a decade is too arbitrary and qualitatively irregular of a time-frame for meaningful greatest-of-all-time discussions. Honing in and whittling the list down to the most consequential, greatest-of-all-time footballers as well as genuine challengers and successors, while following the chronological order, would be more apt, and get rid of most of the noise (i.e., footballers who were selected exlusively due to the decade criterion, even though they were never truly part of the discussion and seem entirely out of place).
  • Probably the foundational greatest-of-all-time footballer, in a global sense: Héctor Scarone
  • The ones who dethroned Scarone as the greatest-of-all-time footballers, globally: Giuseppe Meazza and José Manuel Moreno
  • The one who dethroned Meazza as the greatest-of-all-time footballer, on the European front: Ferenc Puskás
  • The one who dethroned Meazza and Moreno as the greatest-of-all-time footballer, globally: Alfredo Di Stéfano
  • The one who dethroned Di Stéfano as the greatest-of-all-time footballer, globally: Pelé
  • The ones who dethroned Puskás as the greatest-of-all-time footballers, on the European front: Franz Beckenbauer and Johan Cruyff
  • The one who challenged Pelé as the greatest-of-all-time footballer, globally: Diego Maradona
  • The one who challenged and perhaps replaced Beckenbauer and Cruyff as the greatest-of-all-time footballer, on the European front: Cristiano Ronaldo
  • The one who dethroned Pelé after half a century (or Maradona after three decades) as the greatest-of-all-time footballer, globally: Lionel Messi
On a side note, I love, love this compilation... :drool:


I agree with everything on this list. I concur with the notion that the foundation in a global sense is Hector. Even though some may argue that Imre Schlosser (or even Orth) represents the foundation(global scale), for me, the true foundation in a global scale is indeed Hector.
 
Not this again.

Here to soothe your pain, a 1987 Word XI vs Rest of the World match at Wembley with Platini and Maradona in the same team. Rinat Dasayev (God, I loved that GK) and Paulo Futre were in also in that team. Hoddle, Shilton and Robson were in the opposing one.

The boos whenever Maradona touches the ball are hilarious. That 1986 WC quarter final still stung.



What a team, Futre, Michel and Diego...some fouls were a bit over the top for a friendly hahaha. I would have loved Diego to to some freestyle before the game, did he do some? all with booos as background.
Gary was more focused than in the freaking WC, he was milking that match as much as he could.
I think is the one Futre told an annecdote form Diego in the dressing room nope?

PD: He can preffer Platini, it's not a crime, neither would be Zico. I think even both would feel Diego was better than them, but my God those three feckers, I love them.
 
Not this again.

Here to soothe your pain, a 1987 Word XI vs Rest of the World match at Wembley with Platini and Maradona in the same team. Rinat Dasayev (God, I loved that GK) and Paulo Futre were in also in that team. Hoddle, Shilton and Robson were in the opposing one.

The boos whenever Maradona touches the ball are hilarious. That 1986 WC quarter final still stung.


I remember after Mexico 86, Maradona was more hated than Hitler in England. You couldn't wear a Maradona Shirt or even mention his name without getting abuse and sometimes physical abuse. The strange thing is, it carried on for over 20 years. Some people still haven't got over it. Cantona once said it an interview that people in England never give him credit for his ability because of that one moment.

I remember when people discussed who the GOAT was in the time, and Maradona was mentioned, you would just hear "but he's a cheat!"
 
What a team, Futre, Michel and Diego...some fouls were a bit over the top for a friendly hahaha. I would have loved Diego to to some freestyle before the game, did he do some? all with booos as background.
Gary was more focused than in the freaking WC, he was milking that match as much as he could.
I think is the one Futre told an annecdote form Diego in the dressing room nope?

PD: He can preffer Platini, it's not a crime, neither would be Zico. I think even both would feel Diego was better than them, but my God those three feckers, I love them.
Big, big fan of Futre. Sadly, injuries ruined his career.

I still have Porto's 1987 CL campaign in mind and their historic 2-1 win against Bayern in the final, with Madjer's magical backheel equalizer.



Zico didn't have the career his talent deserved but Platini was on a planet of his own in Italy. One of the most talented, charismatic, intelligent and articulate players I've ever seen and his goal record at the 1984 Euros is still unbeaten.

When Diego popped up in the Serie A, Michel wasn't far from his way out due to injuries, especially a groin one which massively hampered him, and an overall lack of motivation.

I loved that France team from 1982 to 1986. They were something else and honestly deserved to win at least one WC.

These three were in the same basket until the 1986 WC. In fact, there were major question marks over Diego and whether he could live up to his potential. After that WC, there was no single doubt left in anyone's mind.
 
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It's utterly pointless comparing generations of football. Take Messi for example, if he had been born in the 60s/70s/80s with his GHD medical issues, he never would have become a professional footballer. The HGH injections he had to have daily in his legs as a child didnt exist.
 
It's utterly pointless comparing generations of football. Take Messi for example, if he had been born in the 60s/70s/80s with his GHD medical issues, he never would have become a professional footballer. The HGH injections he had to have daily in his legs as a child didnt exist.

We can still compare and mostly talk about players from different periods, the thing it's not to fall into black/white considerations and take in account that there are two sides of a coin and things in life tend to be more grey than we like it.


PD: Just a side note, HGH treatment exists since the 50's, the thing it's that it was more dangerous, since the 80's it has become safer.
 
That it's sthg. that rarely it's said, but in Zico's, Platini's and Diego's time (like happened in the 90's and even nowadays), not few times the skilled one are booked for simply protesting (like that particular case with Diego against Italy) or when they retalliate (like Diego against Brazil in the same Cup, where him and Zico were massacred and Diego also was already mad for not receiving a penalty clear as day).

In the early days, mostly in the 60's and prior to it, offensive players were massacre, but they could not only retalliate, they could be mean and sometimes as over the top as defenders. Refs were more permissive for both sides, obviously this nonetheless perjudicated a lot more the offensive ones. Sivori and Pele were quite mean mofos and many power forwards would kill keepers and defenders when scoring too.
This is so true and a much overlooked fact of how football has changed. The poster you responded to, rightly pointed out the incredible example of Gentile assaulting Maradona in that game. He was fouled 23 times in one match. With one booking received by the opposing side. By modern standards, it defies belief. The other team would've ended with 7 players on the pitch in today's football.....or, as is the case today, Maradona would've found himself in innumerably more goalscoring/creating situations, because they couldn't just hack him to pieces.

The game has immeasurably changed in favour of attacking and technical players in the last thirty years. Everything from no back pass, to the offside rule, have given an advantage to forwards. The minimal contact needed for a foul these days is unthinkable by the standards of the 60s/70s/80s, let alone what justifies a yellow. If you go back and watch some of these matches with Maradona and other players from his era, like Platini, the fouls they received would be hard yellows today, and many would be reds. Back then, half of them were just basic fouls. No card, and no incentive to stop. It's pretty crazy if you go back and watch the highlights of those games. On top of that, balls, boots, and pitches are all so much better now, it's unreal. There is a famous story about THAT goal Maradona scored in '86 (the good one, not the hand), that the pitch was so bad, that layers of turf were sliding under the feet of players. Several of the England players called the surface borderline unplayable, even by 80's standards. Yet Maradona danced through it like a fecking ballerina on ice.

It is very complicated to judge players across eras, but a player like Maradona today, would just be even greater, with all the protections forwards get afforded. The added professionalism in the game, drug testing etc, would have potentially saved him from the worst sides of himself too. He did half of what he did in his career, while also having a drug problem, smoking and drinking.

I would say that Messi is the greatest player ever in terms of what he has actually put down on the field. The level of technical excellence, and relentless brilliance, is just unmatched. But he also played in an era where that was possible. If you took him back to the 70's, 80's and early 90's, he'd still be a superb player, but I don't think he would be anything close to what he is today. Maradona, on the other hand, I think he is the greatest player to ever play the game. He did what he did in an era where he was essentially assaulted every single match. He was ridiculous. I would love to see him in the modern era. Under modern coaching, conditions, protections etc,, he would be something even greater than he was from a technical perspective of what he put down on the field. Yet, with all that said, Maradona was also emblematic of the era he played in. Right down to the cocaine addiction, so maybe he is just best suited to the era he played in. One thing is for sure....we will never know.
 
Saw a documentary earlier today called Sporting Mavericks. Maradona was one of 4 footballers who featured. The other 3 were Zlatan, Best and Asprilla. I agree Maradona is the GOAT,. Zlatan best Scandinavian and Best best British. Asprilla was probably just crazy.
 
This is so true and a much overlooked fact of how football has changed. The poster you responded to, rightly pointed out the incredible example of Gentile assaulting Maradona in that game. He was fouled 23 times in one match. With one booking received by the opposing side. By modern standards, it defies belief. The other team would've ended with 7 players on the pitch in today's football.....or, as is the case today, Maradona would've found himself in innumerably more goalscoring/creating situations, because they couldn't just hack him to pieces.

The game has immeasurably changed in favour of attacking and technical players in the last thirty years. Everything from no back pass, to the offside rule, have given an advantage to forwards. The minimal contact needed for a foul these days is unthinkable by the standards of the 60s/70s/80s, let alone what justifies a yellow. If you go back and watch some of these matches with Maradona and other players from his era, like Platini, the fouls they received would be hard yellows today, and many would be reds. Back then, half of them were just basic fouls. No card, and no incentive to stop. It's pretty crazy if you go back and watch the highlights of those games. On top of that, balls, boots, and pitches are all so much better now, it's unreal. There is a famous story about THAT goal Maradona scored in '86 (the good one, not the hand), that the pitch was so bad, that layers of turf were sliding under the feet of players. Several of the England players called the surface borderline unplayable, even by 80's standards. Yet Maradona danced through it like a fecking ballerina on ice.

It is very complicated to judge players across eras, but a player like Maradona today, would just be even greater, with all the protections forwards get afforded. The added professionalism in the game, drug testing etc, would have potentially saved him from the worst sides of himself too. He did half of what he did in his career, while also having a drug problem, smoking and drinking.

I would say that Messi is the greatest player ever in terms of what he has actually put down on the field. The level of technical excellence, and relentless brilliance, is just unmatched. But he also played in an era where that was possible. If you took him back to the 70's, 80's and early 90's, he'd still be a superb player, but I don't think he would be anything close to what he is today. Maradona, on the other hand, I think he is the greatest player to ever play the game. He did what he did in an era where he was essentially assaulted every single match. He was ridiculous. I would love to see him in the modern era. Under modern coaching, conditions, protections etc,, he would be something even greater than he was from a technical perspective of what he put down on the field. Yet, with all that said, Maradona was also emblematic of the era he played in. Right down to the cocaine addiction, so maybe he is just best suited to the era he played in. One thing is for sure....we will never know.


I think Messi could be Messi on any period, just looking at vids in his Youth and when he started and even in his prime, he was targeted as hell too. The thing it's that he would more than probably faced some long term injury with a foul of the sort Emerson did to him in his first days.
Yet the fella it's accostume to constant fouling, he fuels from them, it's worse when he doesn't reach the ball and is kept away from him, then his worse side appears and he can become frustrated and disconnected you foul him? it's game on.
Every vid out there in close up shows how is he actually treated, or even testimony of players agaisnt him. The main diff it's that players would be more aware of trying a Bilbao on him, even if he had faced some of those (I've just recall that Chelsea game of Del horno, it's a miracle Messi walked after it, plus he suffererd one of the clearest penalties ever).

So every coin has two sides:

Players in the older periods were massacred, but they could retalliate and even be the agressor too.

The pitches were bad many times, the ball heavier to strike it or head it...yet a heavier ball, it's also easier to control, to "kill" it, many new balls at certain moments act like a freaking ballon or toy version of it.

Pitches many times were awuful in the past, yet everyone played in such conditions and the ones that were born with better athletism, had it "easier" to keep that advantage given there wasn't s much facilities and knowledge to create an army of cyborgs to face them like nowadays.

The time a player has on the ball in comparison is way way less nowadays than in the past, at the same time players are more protected against over the top fouls, that helps to avoid a long term injury or basicly taking someone out of the game...YET tactical fouls still exist even more and harsh ones didn't disapeared.
SIDE NOTE: also many matches of for isntance Messi against Chelsea, Real, Bilbao, Aleti, etc...there some proper 70's fouls all over the pitch (when they actually can catch him), or the eliminatories and Copa America sometimes look like freeze in time with the level of shithousery involved.

So it's better thess days to avoid an awuful injury, YEAP, it's not astronomically better when comes to actually play, produce given the pressure and speed of the game.
That is why also even with players of the same period, like any comparison of Messi with Cris, should start with games when they faced each other, how the rival team dealt with them, the type of marking and attention on them, it was always quite different and it was diff agisnt other rivals too.

Messi it's perhaps the player every team, on every game made a particular tactical disposition to just avoid him playing with sometimes even 4 players dedicated full time on him, with the addition of all the extra information now everyone have on players, plus the cyborgs at disposal to try to nulify those special players...yet he still did it almost every time, time and again...in fact, he still did it in his last match. So he would score more, less, someone would end his carreer or not, but he would still be Messi (viceversa, same the other old fellas in current era).

At the end of the day, more than periods, pitches, fouls, stamina etc., when it comes to imagine these type of very special fellas to enjoy a better version of them or not in diff periods. It's not that different to the scenario every current player has to deal now, or any current player had to deal in the past:
The most improtant stuff to deal is: the team you land on, how that team plays and mostly the coach in charge.

You can be Pele, Diego, Cryuff, that if sthgs it's no working with just the coach, your mates, the moment and timing of the Club, plus your very own mental state or physycal form some shyte would happen, sthg. would not click entirely.
This is more important than Leagues, pitches, periods....if for some reason Pele felt saudade in Europe, he would have feel it and it won't have anything to do with his talent in the pitch, If his coach was an idiot that benched him? it's the coach.

Way lesser players like Mascherano apparently was not good enough for the starting line up of West Ham, no EPL material, but just Benitez trusting him made him become the destroyer of Liverpool...this stuff matters way a lot more than the usual "it's not made for the EPL", "in that period he would not score a thing or he would score 5000 goals"...that's nonsense, that even former players repeat like idiots. It's from the same school that still doesn't get that even Japan can get you out of a WC being Brazil if you do not understand how that Competition works since ever.
 
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That 6:29 backheel with effect, after such great play and loosing balance due to been pushed it's a thing of beauty, his capabilty to improvise with flair while being absolutely assertive was sthg else
 
Apparently, some old man found out about YouTube, searched for "Maradona" there, was amazed and, now, wants to share his treasure with the world.
 
Apparently, some old man found out about YouTube, searched for "Maradona" there, was amazed and, now, wants to share his treasure with the world.

Quite a treasure...always fun and welcome in my view to watch the man playing
 
Apparently, some old man found out about YouTube, searched for "Maradona" there, was amazed and, now, wants to share his treasure with the world.
Crazy, yeah!?
He should probably share it with others who also like foot de ball, on some kind of magical, electronic talk place.
Sounds like wizard magic to me.
 
Big, big fan of Futre. Sadly, injuries ruined his career.

I still have Porto's 1987 CL campaign in mind and their historic 2-1 win against Bayern in the final, with Madjer's magical backheel equalizer.



Zico didn't have the career his talent deserved but Platini was on a planet of his own in Italy. One of the most talented, charismatic, intelligent and articulate players I've ever seen and his goal record at the 1984 Euros is still unbeaten.

When Diego popped up in the Serie A, Michel wasn't far from his way out due to injuries, especially a groin one which massively hampered him, and an overall lack of motivation.

I loved that France team from 1982 to 1986. They were something else and honestly deserved to win at least one WC.

These three were in the same basket until the 1986 WC. In fact, there were major question marks over Diego and whether he could live up to his potential. After that WC, there was no single doubt left in anyone's mind.




Beleza!

I think this a vid of Futre talking about the match you've posted:

 
Apparently, some old man found out about YouTube, searched for "Maradona" there, was amazed and, now, wants to share his treasure with the world.
Apparently, some wannabe smartass found a Maradona thread on RedCafé, was disappointed and now wants to share his bitterness with the world.
 
Apparently, some wannabe smartass found a Maradona thread on RedCafé, was disappointed and now wants to share his opinion with the world.

I wonder what Invictus, Harms and other staff members who like to talk about football in general and digs the history of it would think of this new type of members
 
I wonder what Invictus, Harms and other staff members who like to talk about football in general and digs the history of it would think of this new type of members
Loved that Futre compilation.

I don't think that they would care. They speak football and that's all there's to it.
 
Platini was better.
Platini himself will tell you that Maradona was a better player than him. Players always know who the best is among them. Same in this recent generation, all the players know Messi is the best player of the 21st century, whatever they might say publicly. Seeing someone at such close quarters really brings the truth home.
 
Football has many icons: Pele, Puskas, Cryuff, R9, Messi, CR. Henry, even Cantona. Fans love to be them.

But Maradona is above iconic. He is the best player to ever play football.
 
Apparently, some old man found out about YouTube, searched for "Maradona" there, was amazed and, now, wants to share his treasure with the world.

Didn’t read the OP? This was prompted by Maradona being discussed in another thread, and it’s well worth its own thread to highlight just how spectacular the man was.

What are you even doing on a football forum?
 
Not this again.

Here to soothe your pain, a 1987 Word XI vs Rest of the World match at Wembley with Platini and Maradona in the same team. Rinat Dasayev (God, I loved that GK) and Paulo Futre were in also in it. Hoddle, Shilton and Robson were in the opposing one.

The boos whenever Maradona touches the ball are hilarious. That 1986 WC quarter final still stung.


The Manchester United show!
Captain Marvel doing the business at both ends......scoring goals and putting the little genius on his arse!
Paul McGrath showing why he was one of the best if not the best defender in world football at the time
and a nice goal from big Norm to boot!
 
Not this again.

Here to soothe your pain, a 1987 Word XI vs Rest of the World match at Wembley with Platini and Maradona in the same team. Rinat Dasayev (God, I loved that GK) and Paulo Futre were in also in it. Hoddle, Shilton and Robson were in the opposing one.

The boos whenever Maradona touches the ball are hilarious. That 1986 WC quarter final still stung.


Surprisingly good entertainment. Fabulous lot of players at the World team, Belanov, Alberto, Futre, Lineker, Dasaev, Josimar, and yet Platini and even more Maradona sticks out like two anti-sore anti-thumbs. I think Lineker burnt as many chances there as in a year of Barca football.

Just lovely to watch McGrath, Whiteside and Robson all heathy at the same time.