[Jacob]

Returning to first team training this week.

Fantastic news. Think he can become a starter sooner than most expect.

 

[Cee90]

Fantastic news. Think he can become a starter sooner than most expect.

Agreed.

Wonder if he’ll get any games as a LB or even RW when the likes of Valencia is back.

 

[jesperjaap]

Agreed.

Wonder if he’ll get any games as a LB or even RW when the likes of Valencia is back.

A lot of people have bemoaned our lack o full backsignings. I wasnt one, think Young and Valencia are worth another season......but just imagine if Shaw can get back to the player he promised just before his big injury and Dalot can burst through early, we could have two excitign attacking young full backs. Had never heard of DAlot when we signed him to be honest but all that have seen spoken and written about him, quite excited he can break through this season for sure

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Agreed.

Wonder if he’ll get any games as a LB or even RW when the likes of Valencia is back.

Surely get enough games at RB, let’s be honest that’s a lot weeker than LB.

 

[sherrinford]

Surely get enough games at RB, let’s be honest that’s a lot weeker than LB.

Certainly isn’t. He’ll do well to displace Valencia.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Young is a hell of a lot better than Valencia. In addition we then have Shaw - on the right it’s Turn Back Tony and Darmian (who we all hope is sold by the end of the week).

 

[Nick7]

Young isn't better than Valencia and no, last year left back was a much much bigger problem than right back.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I see the perennial under-rating of Valencia is in full swing. Here are some stats you should all read. Considering that our team as a whole tended to play more conservatively than the likes of City, the fact his stats are so similar to Walker’s speaks volumes about how good he was last season.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Certainly isn’t. He’ll do well to displace Valencia.

Young isn't better than Valencia and no, last year left back was a much much bigger problem than right back.

I respectively disagree. I don’t think Valencia should be anywhere near our first team and Young, whilst clearly only for the short term is a good left back. It’s not world bearing by any stretch of the imagaination, but if Shaw does step up this season, him and Young are good options, and will be fine for the season.

I don’t think Valencia was good enough last year, and by the sounds of it he’s been on a pie eating diet during the summer - which using exactly what you want from an experienced professional.

 

[VP89]

I really don't rate Valencia anymore. He's too bland going forward which doesn't suit the modern game and looks worse on our side given we don't have a right winger to carry the burden of giving the opposition any trouble on that side.

If we had someone like Mahrez then I'd be fine with Valencia because I know our winger will do the business and give them a headache. But we don't so yeah, hope Dalot replaces early on.

 

[Nick7]

I respectively disagree. I don’t think Valencia should be anywhere near our first team and Young, whilst clearly only for the short term is a good left back. It’s not world bearing by any stretch of the imagaination, but if Shaw does step up this season, him and Young are good options, and will be fine for the season.

I don’t think Valencia was good enough last year, and by the sounds of it he’s been on a pie eating diet during the summer - which using exactly what you want from an experienced professional.

I like Shaw, but that's a massive if. If Shaw has a season like last season. Our depth at left back is Young, and Darmian. Rojo can play there but he's hopeless. Both Valencia and Young are solid players but Young has higher highs and lower lows. Both our full back positions are fairly terrible, but I still think Valencia is a better, more consistent performer. There's a lot more to a full back than their contribution in attack.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I see the perennial under-rating of Valencia is in full swing. Here are some stats you should all read. Considering that our team as a whole tended to play more conservatively than the likes of City, the fact his stats are so similar to Walker’s speaks volumes about how good he was last season.

It’s better to actually watch matches than read stats. It’s very clear that Walker is a vastly superior player to Valencia. Stats can show an element of a player’s contribution, and can sometimes be useful, but are usually skewed to support someone’s argument - this is not American Football where every yard matters.

I’d rather judge with my own eyes.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I like Shaw, but that's a massive if. If Shaw has a season like last season. Our depth at left back is Young, and Darmian. Rojo can play there but he's hopeless. Both Valencia and Young are solid players but Young has higher highs and lower lows. Both our full back positions are fairly terrible, but I still think Valencia is a better, more consistent performer. There's a lot more to a full back than their contribution in attack.

I agree that a lot depends on Shaw, as Young certainty can’t play every match. Rojo is an appalling left back, and Blind has gone also - so everything is in Shaw’s favour this year, I really hope he grasps the opportunity.

 

[Nick7]

I agree that a lot depends on Shaw, as Young certainty can’t play every match. Rojo is an appalling left back, and Blind has gone also - so everything is in Shaw’s favour this year, I really hope he grasps the opportunity.

I wish I was as optimistic! I want Shaw to do well so badly, but I've been so let down by him I can't help but be pessimistic.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I'm delighted Dalot's back in training, I'd very much like to see him contribute to the first team this year.

 

[charlenefan]

Would be amusing if we end the season with Dalot and Shaw as our first choice fall backs

 

[Zlatattack]

It’s better to actually watch matches than read stats. It’s very clear that Walker is a vastly superior player to Valencia. Stats can show an element of a player’s contribution, and can sometimes be useful, but are usually skewed to support someone’s argument - this is not American Football where every yard matters.

I’d rather judge with my own eyes.

Here are a different set of stats that make Walker look like the better player.

http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-...total_forward_passes/assists/interceptions#90

Valencia isn't a bad defender, especially if we were playing 442, but I agree with you, going forwards he's not as effective as we'd like, especially because we don't have a good RW. It's not Valencia's fault we don't have a good RW, but it is what it is.

 

[OL29]

I see the perennial under-rating of Valencia is in full swing. Here are some stats you should all read. Considering that our team as a whole tended to play more conservatively than the likes of City, the fact his stats are so similar to Walker’s speaks volumes about how good he was last season.

I kind of agree about the underrating of Valencia but stats would also put Pogba above almost any other CM in the league yet we're constantly reminded how shit he's been.

 

[Castia]

Young isn't better than Valencia and no, last year left back was a much much bigger problem than right back.

Young at LB is better than Valencia at RB by some distance for me.

Both should probably be squad players if we're honest but Valencia as been very average for the past year or so.

 

[pcaming]

Hope he's given a proper chance, I can't stand another season of Tony V being atrocious in the attacking 3rd (as good a servant as he's been).

 

[Hoof the ball]

Let's keep in mind that Valencia almost always is isolated on the right when he has the ball. He usually plays behind Mata who half the time drifts centrally and circulates the ball left to Young, who is fortunate enough to have Sanchez/Martial/Rashford in front of him to play off, so, as soon as the switch is made to the right side of the field, Mata is still nowhere near Valencia and Tony has no one to play with on the side. Tactically our left and right side full-backs are not dealing with an equal deck of cards.

 

[Nick7]

Young at LB is better than Valencia at RB by some distance for me.

Both should probably be squad players if we're honest but Valencia as been very average for the past year or so.

I genuinely can't see how. If you mean delivery, yes, Young has better delivery. But as an overall fullback? I can't see how Young is better.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Here are a different set of stats that make Walker look like the better player.

http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2017/2018/antonio_valencia/819/819/581/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/kyle_walker/819/819/854/37/p|premier_league/2017/2018/héctor_bellerín/819/819/3832/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/victor_moses/819/819/936/33/p#chances_created/successful_take_ons_%/total_forward_passes/assists/interceptions#90

Valencia isn't a bad defender, especially if we were playing 442, but I agree with you, going forwards he's not as effective as we'd like, especially because we don't have a good RW. It's not Valencia's fault we don't have a good RW, but it is what it is.

Walker fits Pep's system too as he has the pace and athleticism to get back and plug the holes that Pep's system leaves in defence.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Here are a different set of stats that make Walker look like the better player.

http://www2.squawka.com/comparison-matrix#premier_league/2017/2018/antonio_valencia/819/819/581/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/kyle_walker/819/819/854/37/p|premier_league/2017/2018/héctor_bellerín/819/819/3832/0/p|premier_league/2017/2018/victor_moses/819/819/936/33/p#chances_created/successful_take_ons_%/total_forward_passes/assists/interceptions#90

Valencia isn't a bad defender, especially if we were playing 442, but I agree with you, going forwards he's not as effective as we'd like, especially because we don't have a good RW. It's not Valencia's fault we don't have a good RW, but it is what it is.

That's a stupidly selective bunch of stats you've picked out there, which ignore a lot of the key things you'd look for in a fullback. I picked out all the most relevant/comprehensive selection for their positions. Even combining all of these stats you would conclude that - at worst - Valencia is very close to Walker in terms of what he brings to the team.

 

[red4ever 79]

Hope he's given a proper chance, I can't stand another season of Tony V being atrocious in the attacking 3rd (as good a servant as he's been).

Come on, admit it you would miss those crosses into the shins of the opposition and the 'receive the ball, check back and pass it backwards' Tony V

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s better to actually watch matches than read stats. It’s very clear that Walker is a vastly superior player to Valencia. Stats can show an element of a player’s contribution, and can sometimes be useful, but are usually skewed to support someone’s argument - this is not American Football where every yard matters.

I’d rather judge with my own eyes.

The standard response when objective evidence contradicts personal bias.

Stats aren't the be all and end all, I agree. There are contributions that can't be measured statistically, both positive and negative. One thing that's absolutely certain, though, good players tend to have good stats and poor players tend to have poor stats.

When two players have very similar statistics (e.g. Walker and Valencia) then it completely undermines any argument about Valencia being a terrible full-back, considering how his statistical contributions are so similar to what many people consider the best RB in the league, playing for the strongest team this league has seen in a long, long time.

 

[red4ever 79]

Thread going slightly off topic I think. I would just say this. Valencia is not awful like some people are suggesting. He just doesnt have the creative quality that is needed now in a modern day full back, especially when you consider we dont have a decent RW. He has been a good servant, a good professional but it's time he was phased out for Dalot.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Valencia's biggest weakness is the standard short memory of the average football fan. He started the season very well but his form dipped in the closing months of the season (just like almost every other United player) and those poor performances are all that most people seem to remember. Earlier on he was - rightfully - getting a hell of a lot of plaudits on here.

That said, considering his age, the end of season dip (and the pre-season injury) could be part of a bigger picture, so I'm glad we have Dalot providing some competition for his place.

 

[red4ever 79]

Depending on fitness I would expect Dalot to play at least 15 games this season. I'm excited to see him. I think sometimes when you sign a player that you dont know much about it can be more exciting in a way as you dont know what to expect. I hope he takes his opportunity with both hands and works his ass off

 

[Nick7]

Valencia's biggest weakness is the standard short memory of the average football fan. He started the season very well but his form dipped in the closing months of the season (just like almost every other United player) and those poor performances are all that most people seem to remember. Earlier on he was - rightfully - getting a hell of a lot of plaudits on here.

That said, considering his age, the end of season dip (and the pre-season injury) could be part of a bigger picture, so I'm glad we have Dalot providing some competition for his place.

Yeah I remember during the world cup when the Spanish right back scored a cracker there were people moaning that Valencia never does that. Conveniently forgetting he did it early last season against Everton.

 

[Smores]

Valencia's biggest weakness is the standard short memory of the average football fan. He started the season very well but his form dipped in the closing months of the season (just like almost every other United player) and those poor performances are all that most people seem to remember. Earlier on he was - rightfully - getting a hell of a lot of plaudits on here.

That said, considering his age, the end of season dip (and the pre-season injury) could be part of a bigger picture, so I'm glad we have Dalot providing some competition for his place.

You've been banging the Valencia drum for a long time to be fair. He proved to be better than i thought he would be there but its really obvious to everyone that Valencia limits our play going forward quite dramatically.

I mean its well recognised Young causes us issues needing to go back onto his right foot but at least he has the ability to get a cross in. It's such a rare occurrence that Valencia offers any output at all or even gets into a position to do so because he slows it down and passes inside slowly.

He's been a fantastic servant and defensively is solid as anything but we'll never fully progress as an attacking force until he's replaced.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

The standard response when objective evidence contradicts personal bias.

Stats aren't the be all and end all, I agree. There are contributions that can't be measured statistically, both positive and negative. One thing that's absolutely certain, though, good players tend to have good stats and poor players tend to have poor stats.

When two players have very similar statistics (e.g. Walker and Valencia) then it completely undermines any argument about Valencia being a terrible full-back, considering how his statistical contributions are so similar to what many people consider the best RB in the league, playing for the strongest team this league has seen in a long, long time.

I don’t really care what other people say, that’s my response and I’ve been watching football for more than 30 years. Stats are just as bad, if not worse for trying to justify bias. At least I’m aware my perspective is an opinion, and others may well differ. However you use stats to try and justify your opinion and prove that there is a righ or wrong answer.

You also completely undermine your argument about stats when you them start factoring in the relative strengths and/ or weaknesses of respective teams. Football is a team game, with so many interdependencies that it’s pretty pointless comparing and then analysing how far someone has run or whether someone has an average of 0.2 of a tackle per game than someone else. Works on football manager, as stats are all you have. Doesn’t work in real life.

I enjoy watching football, and enjoy talking about it - but I’m never going to start trawlinv through stats, as that’s quite frankly boring.

 

[Nicklas]

Can't wait to see him after his youtube clips and comments from Mourinho and the fans of Porto/Portugal! Will be nice to see crosses coming in from the right side again.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Valencia's biggest weakness is the standard short memory of the average football fan. He started the season very well but his form dipped in the closing months of the season (just like almost every other United player) and those poor performances are all that most people seem to remember. Earlier on he was - rightfully - getting a hell of a lot of plaudits on here.

That said, considering his age, the end of season dip (and the pre-season injury) could be part of a bigger picture, so I'm glad we have Dalot providing some competition for his place.

I mean it guess it also comes down to what you qualify as “good” scored a cracker this season as mentioned above but he hasn’t been the standard required for 2-3 years even when people were saying he was the best RB in the league, which he never was. He is a solid player, a great option to have, he’s consistently puts in a solid performance, you know what you’re going to get with him which is mostly a solid no thrills. He’s a great squad option. Personally I think a different RB transforms this team and I have my fingers crossed that Dalot is going to hit the ground running and be a prodigy so Valencia can be his back up. I don’t think this will happen but I can only hope.

 

[James Peril]

Fantastic news. Think he can become a starter sooner than most expect.

Give me a single argument for this please, and not one based on hope. The guy played six games for a woeful Porto -side last season (which would have loved to have Valencia in the team I presume) - so what has happened over the summer to turn him into a starter for a top team in England? Genuinely asking.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You've been banging the Valencia drum for a long time to be fair. He proved to be better than i thought he would be there but its really obvious to everyone that Valencia limits our play going forward quite dramatically.

I mean its well recognised Young causes us issues needing to go back onto his right foot but at least he has the ability to get a cross in. It's such a rare occurrence that Valencia offers any output at all or even gets into a position to do so because he slows it down and passes inside slowly.

He's been a fantastic servant and defensively is solid as anything but we'll never fully progress as an attacking force until he's replaced.

We’ve issues on our right wing that have nothing to do with Valencia and have done, ironically, since he last played that position himself.

I’ve been as frustrated as anyone with his attacking contributions at fullback (which seemed to reach a nadir in the Van Gaal era) but was pleasantly surprised by how well he did in the opening months of last season. I haven’t quite worked out why he did so well in that spell, or why it went to shit at the end of the season but I’m not massively confident that just replacing Valencia will “fix” our right flank. In fact, I worry that we’re setting up Dalot to fail unless one of our attacking players somehow ups his game on that side of the pitch, or we generally commit more numbers in attack. Because there’s not a fullback in the league who would excel when he’s doubled up on as often as Valencia is.

 

[Jacob]

Give me a single argument for this please, and not one based on hope. The guy played six games for a woeful Porto -side last season (which would have loved to have Valencia in the team I presume) - so what has happened over the summer to turn him into a starter for a top team in England? Genuinely asking.

YouTube and the fact that Darmian might be sold, while Valencia needing rotation.

 

[Zlatattack]

That's a stupidly selective bunch of stats you've picked out there, which ignore a lot of the key things you'd look for in a fullback. I picked out all the most relevant/comprehensive selection for their positions. Even combining all of these stats you would conclude that - at worst - Valencia is very close to Walker in terms of what he brings to the team.

I'm not trying to portray Valencia as a bad RB, but our team would be improved if we had Walker instead of him. This is the very top level, the margins are fine.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Will be great under zidane

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Valencia has been a surprisingly good right back for us (considering his lack of familiarity with the position) but he isn't close to someone like Walker whose explosiveness and superior quality on the ball gives him the pretty comfortable edge.

As solid as Valencia is, you want the starting right back at United to be much better than Valencia has ever been for us in that position.