Disrespecting the class of 92

Whether they are affecting the club in a bad way or not, personally I think, that is an easy excuse.

We all know the club has been run bad, the CO92 cannot be blamed for that. Even if Gary Neville etc.. are impacting decisions made by the club, that also should not be an excuse. United are perhaps without a doubt in the top 3 biggest clubs.... it should be run right from the top down.

I don't think intentionally they are trying to get a pay check out of it. They all don't need it for a start and they also have a lot of other projects going on.

Is it annoying? Yes. Neville's comments on Sesko is annoying.

At the end of the day, they were super successful under Sir Alex and with David Gill and before, Kenyon, they had a grip on the club. The dominos fell when they left. I think they are just annoyed and to look at it from their perspectives... can anyone really blame them for being this annoyed and angry? They are fed up of what the club has become.
 
They were all great players and now they are getting paid to either slag off the club or try and be controversial!
It is just a shame they are tarnishing their image to the supporters.
 
Bondi77 said:
They were all great players and now they are getting paid to either slag off the club or try and be controversial!
It is just a shame they are tarnishing their image to the supporters.
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In fairness, aside from Neville talking nonsense on Sky, Butt and Scholes have ex wives to pay for so probably need the money.

You generally don't hear much from anyone else.
 
Class of 92 and Roy Keane need to shut the feck up.They have had there day and quite rightly we all respect them for what they did for the club.However they need to button it now, I think Keane”s comments about Sir Alex hanging around like a bad smell is the final straw for me. Keano was my favourite player but he can feck off with the rest of them now.Go and support another club so you can slag them day and night.
 
It's just Neville. Other former players just have opinions like any pundit.

The problem is Neville reels off his authoritatively and has Sky as a platform so it does massively amplify criticism on the club and players/manager.

And yet he just spouts nonsensical, sensationalist reactionary shite. The sort of thing that if it were a post on here, the appropriate reply would be "ok then mate"

He's also the sort of person who you can get to argue with himself by just showing him his own opinion from 6 months ago but neglecting to mention to him who's opinion it was.
 
Smores said:
No one is saying they shouldn't or can't have those opinions privately. They're saying it's unhelpful for them to platform those opinions as it assists negative narratives.

Most ex-players of other clubs remain largely positive in the media, even when Liverpool were shit that lot would try spin a positive narrative.

I think it's clear our legends have disassociated from the club and their opinions come from a place of almost sneering superiority. Not saying they don't care, they just don't feel sufficiently part of it. That might be on the club.
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I was going to start a thread called "Gary Neville" but found this one...

I've only heard Gary Neville this year doing play by play for Utd games -- don't know if he just started this on US broadcasts, or if he's just gotten worse over time. Anyway, he's horrible. Nasty. Extremely, horribly endlessly critical of Utd players. Maybe mostly towards the non-British ones, but that maybe because Utd doesn't get young new British players.

I watch the CL roundtable with Thierry Henry, Jamie Carragher, Micah Richards, Peter Schmeichel etc. They all come across as basically kind, no raging criticism, etc.

I can't figure out what's going on. Any thoughts?
 
Theonas said:
The biggest problem of the class of '92 is not them criticizing the club. That's natural, they are fans like us and it would be weird if they were anything but critical of the state we've been in. My problem is with the analysis they give on what is wrong and how it should be instead. That's when it becomes dangerous and harmful. We are talking about a generation of players who are particularly insular. You see the Spanish and Italians or Germans who played for successful teams in the past and they go travel, explore new ideas, learn new systems and ways of doing things. Our lot showed zero interest in that, they don't want to learn anything past '90s Sir Alex, United, PL and their analysis is simply a version of why it isn't still like that and how it should go back to that. The things we liked about them as players in terms of never showing any interest to leave and basically signing whatever contract we offered them are the very things that meant their footballing intellect has been stuck in the '90s and refused to evolve to give us anything more substantial than what your average pub goer in Manchester can say. They have a platform and a lot of people listen to them and their populist views and it's becoming clearer with every manager we go through, that this does affect our decision makers. They want them on their side and are concerned about the backlash their decisions get if not supported by the class of '92. It's a very vicious cycle.
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Some good points about their narrow range of experience, which exposes their lack of expertise. It shows. Somebody in this thread said they know more about what is happening/not happening and how to fix it than the entire CAF forum. Well I do wish they would share it instead of the usual barstool bullshit you can listen to in any pub in Manchester and beyond. I think Thomas’ point about their narrow range of experience shows in their views. Players who came from other clubs (Rio, Schmikes, Hargreaves just a few) are not nearly as rabid and repetitive, nor are pundits who played for other teams, particularly regarding their former clubs. It’s just cheap jibes for easy money. G2c Becks and Phil not joining the chorus. Can’t abide the cnuts.
 
Denis' cuff said:
Some good points about their narrow range of experience, which exposes their lack of expertise. It shows. Somebody in this thread said they know more about what is happening/not happening and how to fix it than the entire CAF forum. Well I do wish they would share it instead of the usual barstool bullshit you can listen to in any pub in Manchester and beyond. I think Thomas’ point about their narrow range of experience shows in their views. Players who came from other clubs (Rio, Schmikes, Hargreaves just a few) are not nearly as rabid and repetitive, nor are pundits who played for other teams, particularly regarding their former clubs. It’s just cheap jibes for easy money. G2c Becks and Phil not joining the chorus. Can’t abide the cnuts.
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Exactly! You know what else. Reportedly, one of the reasons Ole has been overlooked in favor of Carric is that he presents himself as more of a manager who lets his coaches do the day to day work on the field for him.

This reminded me of a Rooney interview where he praised Rosenior for being such a good coach for him as he did not really work on that in his time at Derby or Terry who was complaining about not getting jobs in football while in the next breath admitting that coaching is not his strength but that he would bring in people to help with that. Roy Keane spoke of similar things and you begin to see a pattern of why some of this generation of players are really stuck in British football culture from decades ago. When the best more elite managers in the world are hands on, day to day invovled in the coaching side of things from Pep, Tuchel, Klopp, Enrique, Emery, Conte. How can this lot really justify that "nah not for me, I am more of a manager" and yet complain that clubs don't give English managers a chance? I know Ole is not English but I am talking about this culture that premeated English football culture and that is so outdated it's unbelievable how Rooney can't see how ridiculous he sounds when his assistant is now managing Chelsea and he is struggling to get a Championship job, and yet he doesn't see what the reason might be.

The points I am making above are about a certain culture that exists within English football culture hence the Terry example which I think is very strong within our former players from that era. There are clear exceptions such as Howe or Potter or the to be seen from like Carrick or Rosenior which tells you the culture is changing. But among your Terrys, Rooneys, Keanes and Oles and definitely Neville, Scholes and Butt, they really couldn't lift a finger to learn about how the game is today in this very country, let alone outside of it. Their analysis is simply them answering; "how was it in my day?".
 
Theonas said:
Exactly! You know what else. Reportedly, one of the reasons Ole has been overlooked in favor of Carric is that he presents himself as more of a manager who lets his coaches do the day to day work on the field for him.

This reminded me of a Rooney interview where he praised Rosenior for being such a good coach for him as he did not really work on that in his time at Derby or Terry who was complaining about not getting jobs in football while in the next breath admitting that coaching is not his strength but that he would bring in people to help with that. Roy Keane spoke of similar things and you begin to see a pattern of why some of this generation of players are really stuck in British football culture from decades ago. When the best more elite managers in the world are hands on, day to day invovled in the coaching side of things from Pep, Tuchel, Klopp, Enrique, Emery, Conte. How can this lot really justify that "nah not for me, I am more of a manager" and yet complain that clubs don't give English managers a chance? I know Ole is not English but I am talking about this culture that premeated English football culture and that is so outdated it's unbelievable how Rooney can't see how ridiculous he sounds when his assistant is now managing Chelsea and he is struggling to get a Championship job, and yet he doesn't see what the reason might be.

The points I am making above are about a certain culture that exists within English football culture hence the Terry example which I think is very strong within our former players from that era. There are clear exceptions such as Howe or Potter or the to be seen from like Carrick or Rosenior which tells you the culture is changing. But among your Terrys, Rooneys, Keanes and Oles and definitely Neville, Scholes and Butt, they really couldn't lift a finger to learn about how the game is today in this very country, let alone outside of it. Their analysis is simply them answering; "how was it in my day?".
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Oddly enough, I learn more on here than I do from Scholes, Butt, and often Keane and Neville. At least the latter 2 did their badges and had a go but learned it’s all to hard and easier to do what people on here do for free. Rarely any real insight from most, apart from the odd trip down memory lane and a good moan. Certainly hinders, rather than helps the club but hey, easy money and boy, does it pay. It also plays into the hands of our rivals.
Must admit, I took my eye off the ball when Boro started to slide, without knowing the reason why: Rodgers. The guy who single handedly beat us the other week, plus, his teammate who was also instrumental in Boro’s form.
Really hope Carrick makes a success of it and you never know…
 
At least you’d expect them to bring up some incidents to shift the media narrative with the platform they have and defend the club occasionally when there’s an opportunity to do so, if the club and their association with it is what has given them that platform.

One of the reasons why we’re getting shafted by the refs on the pitch is because when someone stamps on our players or grabs them by the throat there’s barely a peep from any media, of which Gary Neville in particular is a big part of. There’s an opportunity to help the club by bringing these incidents up, bringing out the inconsistency with which the refs judge our players, so the next time they do that they know they’re gonna have to read about their error in the media. But do we hear that? The Liverpool pundits all used to do that, we saw the instant effect during Ole’s tenure when the Liverpool manager mentioned that we got many penalties.

Just look at how Simon Hooper who reffed our game against Brighton used ”common sense” for every single incident where he could card Brighton but used none of it when Lacey threw the ball. You think he’s forgotten the media storm after him and his assistants missed the Onana v Wolves incident when both him and the VAR got demoted and lost money over that?

You’d think that our ex players could be the counterweight to that narrative and point out completely legitimate concerns about harsh decisions against us and help the club. But what do we hear? feck all. That annoys me. They’ve spent their whole careers at the club which has given them a platform from which they can influence narratives and they just use it to stick the boot in. Which makes their association and access to the club a bit pointless.
 
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Weird how much they dislike Sesko already.

Butt: "Look at Danny [Welbeck], he's 10 times better than what we have up front"
Scholes: "Yeah, yeah"
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:lol:

And they talked a few weeks ago about Neville and the group chat 'not having him at all'.
 
Again. Most of our ex players (aside from maybe Eric Cantona and Roy Keane ) spent the first 15 years of the Glazer ownership totally silent.

If they had offered criticism when they were potentially in positions to help change things, they could have impacted the club positively even if it had a negative impact on them, as individuals, or on their mates in the short term.

Now, as individuals, they love throwing grenades in, because they know they'll never have to help clear up the mess.

This all goes for Fergie too. Imagine if any of them had said anything years ago. Surely they knew then the damage that was being caused then?
 
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The problem isn’t any individual, it’s the collective; there’s just so many of them! Neville, Butt, Scholes, Keane, Rooney, Hargreaves… then the likes of Evra and Berbatov pop up, plus I weirdly see “ex United star slams…” headlines and it’s Paul bloody Parker.

In the age of the click, it’s easy news content. It’s simple click bait journalism to quote what an ex United player said in some podcast or other. Each one is fairly insignificant, but every little droplet of negativity spouted, when done in such volume, becomes a storm cloud of torrential negativity.
 
The class of 92 and the "united way" are dead, nonexistent in today's football world. It's no wonder all they do is talk trash and moan consistently.
The game just passed them by and that's okay.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
Perhaps.
Though part of me thinks there is something more calculated about their criticism.
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I wouldn't think it's calculated, I think they'd find something to moan about, even if Utd were doing well.

I actually don't pay much attention to what they say, particularly Scholes and Butt, I watched 10 minutes of it and couldn't. They're just like two lads down the pub talking about stuff they used to do because they don't really have any common ground anymore.
 
KStandBarmyArmy1993 said:
Perhaps.
Though part of me thinks there is something more calculated about their criticism.
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They are all trying to make money. In todays society controversy and sound bites are what does that for you. People don't want measured and well considered responses, they want hot takes and maximum engagement.
 
Oranges038 said:
I wouldn't think it's calculated, I think they'd find something to moan about, even if Utd were doing well.

I actually don't pay much attention to what they say, particularly Scholes and Butt, I watched 10 minutes of it and couldn't. They're just like two lads down the pub talking about stuff they used to do because they don't really have any common ground anymore.
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Aye, its really easy to ignore.
 
Anustart89 said:
At least you’d expect them to bring up some incidents to shift the media narrative with the platform they have and defend the club occasionally when there’s an opportunity to do so, if the club and their association with it is what has given them that platform.

One of the reasons why we’re getting shafted by the refs on the pitch is because when someone stamps on our players or grabs them by the throat there’s barely a peep from any media, of which Gary Neville in particular is a big part of. There’s an opportunity to help the club by bringing these incidents up, bringing out the inconsistency with which the refs judge our players, so the next time they do that they know they’re gonna have to read about their error in the media. But do we hear that? The Liverpool pundits all used to do that, we saw the instant effect during Ole’s tenure when the Liverpool manager mentioned that we got many penalties.

Just look at how Simon Hooper who reffed our game against Brighton used ”common sense” for every single incident where he could card Brighton but used none of it when Lacey threw the ball. You think he’s forgotten the media storm after him and his assistants missed the Onana v Wolves incident when both him and the VAR got demoted and lost money over that?

You’d think that our ex players could be the counterweight to that narrative and point out completely legitimate concerns about harsh decisions against us and help the club. But what do we hear? feck all. That annoys me. They’ve spent their whole careers at the club which has given them a platform from which they can influence narratives and they just use it to stick the boot in. Which makes their association and access to the club a bit pointless.
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To be fair playing giants of Manchester United like Roy Keane didn`t have their ultra successful careers by having any similarities in attitude and performance to too many members of different United squads for some years now.

Scholesy had vision and great ball skills but they were also complimented by his toughness and perseverance just like the United teams he played in - with team mates like Gary Nev who wasn`t the tallest for a defender but like Scholesy and Keano just wanted to win and to win it all.

Personally I don`t mind that the United contingent of media commentators don`t whinge about the referees the way the Liverpool ones did and do.

It`s easy to say `Oh but the refereeing is bad and the refs seem/are biased` or whatever but as Keano has said on a number of occasions in different words, bad play leads to situations where bad refereeing decisions become too important and making excuses for why United players can`t do the basics or summon up the will to bust their guts for half the game let alone 90 minutes in the red shirt is just not on.
 
mctrials23 said:
They are all trying to make money. In today’s society controversy and sound bites are what does that for you. People don't want measured and well considered responses, they want hot takes and maximum engagement.
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Yeah and what’s ironic about it all is that the majority of those who complain about your Neville, Scholes, Butts etc are guilty of falling for the sound bite traps. They see these little clips of “hot takes” and get outraged about it. I see the clips on Ig. And the majority of the comments are moaning so people are going out of their way to be outraged. Whoever runs that page plays people like a fiddle. Nothing they say isn’t said on the cafe.

There’s been lots of complaining about the show they’re doing.
I’m not sure what people expect really. A show that has two Manchester United supporters on it, generally quite simple lads who’ve both basically given up coaching and punditry. Sitting and chatting about United for an hour and a half. And people are fuming that during that time, they’re having a big moan about man united and reminiscing about the past.

Genuinely , what do people do when they’re sat down talking about football with their mates? I can say for me I spend most of it whinging about United and slagging everyone off at the club from owners to kit man. I’ll freely admit to going down nostalgia lane and watching old United videos to make the current situation more bearable.

I imagine if Ledley King and Michael Dawson made a podcast and sat down speaking about Spurs for an hour and a half they’d spend a fair chunk of it moaning about how rubbish spurs are.

I just don’t understand why people put so much energy into moaning about what Neville, Scholes or Butt say. On match days the Gary Neville thread gets bumped fairly regularly. I’m sat there annoyed about Diogo Dalot missing an open goal but there’s someone else more angry because Neville moaned about it..
 
Denis' cuff said:
Oddly enough, I learn more on here than I do from Scholes, Butt, and often Keane and Neville. At least the latter 2 did their badges and had a go but learned it’s all to hard and easier to do what people on here do for free. Rarely any real insight from most, apart from the odd trip down memory lane and a good moan. Certainly hinders, rather than helps the club but hey, easy money and boy, does it pay. It also plays into the hands of our rivals.
Must admit, I took my eye off the ball when Boro started to slide, without knowing the reason why: Rodgers. The guy who single handedly beat us the other week, plus, his teammate who was also instrumental in Boro’s form.
Really hope Carrick makes a success of it and you never know…
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Won't happen and yes we do know. Unless you define success as finishing top 6 this season, then maybe you never know...
 
I don't think it's the Class of 92 as much as a cabal of ex-players from late 90s/early 2000s that have involvement in high profile podcasts that seem to think producing 5 hours of United content each week based on 90 minutes of performance that seem to fundamentally have an issue with anyone that isn't their mate. If we appointed Solskjaer and he lost every single game then the topic of United would dramatically fall down the pecking order in terms of contemporaneous football issues covered on these shows. We might eventually get one or two of them to go as far to admitting the situation "Isn't ideal for Ole" but that's probably as far as it would go.

Carrick is an ex-player but he isn't part of their club so Keane will rage about how he should be fired off the back of a media reports that he made eye contact with Sir Alex at a press event and Butt will be "Give it Keaney" by close of play on Burns Night even if we beat City and Arsenal.
 
Ludens the Red said:
Whoever runs that page plays people like a fiddle.
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Yep. Same on BBC news "have your say". Every United article is just full of opposition fans:
- Whinging about the content of the article
- Whinging that they don't want to read United articles.
- Trying to wind up United fans

If you didn't comment and view the articles guys, they would stop writing so many...
 
Do other clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool have to endure their former players shitting on them on a daily basis?
 
ryansgirl said:
To be fair playing giants of Manchester United like Roy Keane didn`t have their ultra successful careers by having any similarities in attitude and performance to too many members of different United squads for some years now.

Scholesy had vision and great ball skills but they were also complimented by his toughness and perseverance just like the United teams he played in - with team mates like Gary Nev who wasn`t the tallest for a defender but like Scholesy and Keano just wanted to win and to win it all.

Personally I don`t mind that the United contingent of media commentators don`t whinge about the referees the way the Liverpool ones did and do.

It`s easy to say `Oh but the refereeing is bad and the refs seem/are biased` or whatever but as Keano has said on a number of occasions in different words, bad play leads to situations where bad refereeing decisions become too important and making excuses for why United players can`t do the basics or summon up the will to bust their guts for half the game let alone 90 minutes in the red shirt is just not on.
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It’s not an excuse for the predicament we find ourselves in and the quality of our players, but in the situation the club is in right now the last thing we need is unfair refereeing due to media making a meal of every decision for us and ignoring every decision against us, which is indubitably the case. Did we see a media uproar when Walker stamped on Dorgu? Did we feck. Were the VAR and ref demoted? Were they feck. Did Jon Moss run down the stands to apologise to us after the game, like when Onana ”assaulted” that Wolves guy? Nope again.

Just off the top of my head, there’s a real possibility we could’ve had four more points in this extremely tight PL table against Bournemouth and Burnley if Semenyo had been sent off for grabbing Dalot’s throat and Walker had been sent off for stamping on Dorgu’s leg as he was lying on the ground. If those four points are the difference between making Europe and not making Europe it will have huge financial implications for the club and it’s ability to increase the quality of the players at the club (to get back to the pundits’ point…), due to unjust refereeing. And that’s just two examples from the past month or two.

Like I said, why aren’t these boyhood fans and/or former players of the club pointing this out? Don’t they want United to do well? If no, then I couldn’t give a flying feck about their association with United and ”respecting them” as pundits if they use their association with United as a platform from which they contribute to the silence around unfair decisions going against United. They don’t need to whinge, they can just contribute to bringing up incorrect decisions so that refs don’t feck the club over and end up thinking they’ve had a good game.

The counter-argument that ”if we just won every game 4-0 we wouldn’t have to worry about refs” is a load of bollocks because any team, even the most dominant one, could have the outcomes of their games affected by the referees. Just look at Arsenal being top of the table this season and looking likely to win the league. If they’d been pulled up for their physicality on corners like we were against Burnley I’m sure they’d have less points than they have at this point. One obvious example is Mount having his shirt almost taken off him for the winner in the opening game against us without a foul being given, compared to the push we had our goal against Burnley disallowed for.


Edit: just remembered the second yellow AWB escaped in another draw which the VAR panel deemed to be wrong in the bbc article posted yesterday. So make that a possible six points? That was obviously late in the game with the score 1-1 so not as big an influence on the game as the others that were earlier on.
 
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They are all legends and have been fantastic players but most of them talk absolute shite all day and they should be criticized for that.
 
A lot of nothing for me around something that is part and parcel of being a major club.

They can say what they want and everyone is free to listen or ignore it.
 
Eleven-Eighteen said:
Won't happen and yes we do know. Unless you define success as finishing top 6 this season, then maybe you never know...
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Which, according to most smart arses at the end of last season, was a laughable suggestion and the only way was down. So no, you don’t know.
 
Anustart89 said:
It’s not an excuse for the predicament we find ourselves in and the quality of our players, but in the situation the club is in right now the last thing we need is unfair refereeing due to media making a meal of every decision for us and ignoring every decision against us, which is indubitably the case. Did we see a media uproar when Walker stamped on Dorgu? Did we feck. Were the VAR and ref demoted? Were they feck. Did Jon Moss run down the stands to apologise to us after the game, like when Onana ”assaulted” that Wolves guy? Nope again.

Just off the top of my head, there’s a real possibility we could’ve had four more points in this extremely tight PL table against Bournemouth and Burnley if Semenyo had been sent off for grabbing Dalot’s throat and Walker had been sent off for stamping on Dorgu’s leg as he was lying on the ground. If those four points are the difference between making Europe and not making Europe it will have huge financial implications for the club and it’s ability to increase the quality of the players at the club (to get back to the pundits’ point…), due to unjust refereeing. And that’s just two examples from the past month or two.

Like I said, why aren’t these boyhood fans and/or former players of the club pointing this out? Don’t they want United to do well? If no, then I couldn’t give a flying feck about their association with United and ”respecting them” as pundits if they use their association with United as a platform from which they contribute to the silence around unfair decisions going against United. They don’t need to whinge, they can just contribute to bringing up incorrect decisions so that refs don’t feck the club over and end up thinking they’ve had a good game.

The counter-argument that ”if we just won every game 4-0 we wouldn’t have to worry about refs” is a load of bollocks because any team, even the most dominant one, could have the outcomes of their games affected by the referees. Just look at Arsenal being top of the table this season and looking likely to win the league. If they’d been pulled up for their physicality on corners like we were against Burnley I’m sure they’d have less points than they have at this point. One obvious example is Mount having his shirt almost taken off him for the winner in the opening game against us without a foul being given, compared to the push we had our goal against Burnley disallowed for.


Edit: just remembered the second yellow AWB escaped in another draw which the VAR panel deemed to be wrong in the bbc article posted yesterday. So make that a possible six points? That was obviously late in the game with the score 1-1 so not as big an influence on the game as the others that were earlier on.
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Come on, we’re better than that. We’re not scouse.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
Come on, we’re better than that. We’re not scouse.
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I’d like our opponents to get sent off when they stamp on or grab our players by the throat, mainly because our players are being sent off for such things.

The reason they aren’t is because nobody gives a shit or points it out and it’s very easy for the refs to get away with it, whereas any decision for us will be analysed into oblivion. I’m not sure that makes me scouse, but thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
 
Easy targets. I don’t see any of them saying anything that isn’t said by millions online and posters on this website. Only difference is they have bigger platforms. They’re allowed to be frustrated and not rate players and managers like every other fan out there. No one deny they don’t love the club! Look at the mess we’ve been in for 13 years. What the hell do people expect them to say?
 
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