Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by shamans, Mar 14, 2019.
I wasn't judging or questioning anything, I was simply pointing out that may be the reason why we have different perceptions. And if you aren't interested in questioning fans loyalty then you shoudln't have used the co92 shield tag at all, because it basically dismisses anyones argument, and im saying that if you didnt have the same experience then you wouldn't understand. It doesnt make you or anyone a lesser fan. You just have to understand why some of us would be willing to give them a bit more leeway than your usual pundit. We dont worship them to the point of being above any criticism, no.
Yes I agree. Keano’s first black ball as a pundit was criticising united for being knocked out the CL in the group stage with defeat to fc basle. Hardly the most sensational comment to make. He was then attacked by Fergie in his pre match column in the next home game and the rest was history. It’s a shame it’s got to the point it is now.
Those not agreeing with the OP are either oblivious to the outright resentment and lack of gratitude under discussion, or are hiding behind deflections taking advantage of its lack of precision.
I'd be surprised if the former are too many, it's an ongoing theme, right there in black and white, in multiple threads.
The idea that calling out Gary Neville is a prick means you're not a United fan is laughable bullshit.
Gary likes to be the lone dissenting voice in the room because he thinks it makes him look smart. Still, i would reserve the term prick for ones like di maria who openly disrespect the club and fans.
As is the idea that Gary Neville goes out his way to slag off united to look impartial.
That’s slightly one-eyed. Picture an extremely successful trio of Gerrard, Carragher and Danny Murphy, parading themselves all over television. Releasing books and documentaries; back-slapping; buying their own football clubs; building their own brand and hotel. We would laugh at their pretentiousness and rightfully so. Don’t think opposition don’t do the same, especially in the face of such shameless promotion.
We loved them as players and rightfully so, but there’s certainly a degree of show in what they do.
Yes, hence why I put the / to include both. Google was conceived and formed in the 90's, I was talking about both people who were young enough to witness at least some glory and long for it, and those who follow since the internet has exploded.
My point still very much stands.
anto you old devil, how are you doing? Still ruling the WW scene?
Too right. He is dirt.
The media created the class of 92 brand, not the players. As for the hotel, I can hardly blame anyone for making a sound business investment.
Nobody has an issue with Keane being called one. He clearly is, but he was OUR prick, all his shortcomings were part of the package and I would gladly live with them all over again ten times over (if only! ). The evidence is also clear that he is -unsurprisingly- a shite manager as well.
It is revelling in their failure that I can't wrap my head around and what the OP is getting at.
Scholes was brutal in his criticism about managers at United. He disliked pretty much everything about the managers after SAF and was almost as spiteful as the fans on caf.
Then he tried being a manager and threw in the towel in 7 games.
It is a classic case of not being able to walk the talk.
So rightfully getting criticized. And even laughed at.
As long as someone is not calling him shit names, it is kinda expected criticism.
Scholes being a United legend doesn't make him immune from being the butt of a joke
Nah, came out of retirement sometime last year and was an unmitigated disaster as usual.
I laughed because I work with financial institutions and most Board members still seem to be of the idea Millennial = unemployed penniless student.
They've been the same for about 15 years now. Great millennial trick that, forever young.
I've seen people on here, including the OP and various members of staff be disrespectful to Stam, Johnsen, Parker, Keane, Giggs, Rooney, Pallister, Phelan, Hughes, McClair, Charlton, Irwin...I could go on...
Point is, people acting holier than thou now, more than likely called Keane a cnut and overrated or Rooney an over the hill waste of time. What's the difference? I'm just as guilty as anyone.
I've read some ridiculous things about Mike Phelan on here down the years. Although, Mike Feline did make me laugh
We're in the age of the internet. People are fast to type out their emotions without thinking about it. It applies to everyone, not just footballers. Look at Gary Neville and his "You do one as well!" tweet directed at Pogba. Yet, there they were, both of them, having a great laugh and time at the PSG match.
Just earlier on, I tried to give reason for the, "Not as easy as it looks, is it Paul?!" theme of posts in the Scholes thread and I got told to go and support a club over on Merseyside
Just how it is. I've seen worse things in a match day thread
With their blessing and self-promotion. Look, I’m not criticising it at all. It’s clever as hell. Sound investments, as you say. But let’s not pretend for a second that we couldn’t be calling them self-absorbed wankers if they didn’t play for United. We’re tribal like that.
Again, Scholes is my favourite ever player. I loved Neville. You can’t help but still admire Beckham. But they’re all flawed, and some of them (namely Scholes and Gary) put themselves in positions in which they are bound to receive criticism. It’s fair game.
I don’t think anyone can complain about fair criticism being given to these people. It’s the joy being taken in it that winds people up. It’s incredibly weird. I could think of little better in football than seeing people like Giggs, Neville or Scholes being great managers and bringing United back to the top. It’s weird that there are United fans who actively want them to be shit just so they can say “I told you so.”
I agree with @antohan , criticism is fine and I have had issues with Neville and Scholes but there is a definite revelling in anything negative with those ex-players.
Take Neville’s interview with Solskjaer after PSG, should have been a positive moment given the result the club had but Neville’s reaction was made fun of as if no other United fan would have reacted differently.
Yep. If anything he’s allowed to criticise us more because he’s a fan. The same goes for Neville, but some people have some weird hatred for them.
I wouldn't like to see the caf sanitized even more to the point where people no matter how wrong can't vent about players including United legends.
I do appreciate the clean-up that happened some time ago - I recall the Arsenal fan who used to call me a 'stupid c--t' just because I posted some snappy posts about Arsenal players. Not one of my comments was based on vulgarity or profanity or just assertions. Haven't seen him for a while on here but he would get kicked off these days if he tried that now.
However, let the ignorant who slag off United players and pretend to be authentic fans of the club, be ignorant. They are easy to deal with by logic. I too think some of the comments, assertions and downright lies about some United players are disgraceful but given those kind of comments are easy to dismiss, we shouldn't worry too much about them.
For example Sir Alex Ferguson said everything about the Neville brothers that needed to be said in a few comments back in the day re their loyalty and passion for Manchester United. He said they got flak because they 'have nailed their colours to the mast' - they were and are proudly United through and through. He also referred to their contribution to United's most successful era time and time again, and one of his most notable comments was when he said Phil Neville would run through brick walls for United. He also said a similar comment about Gary.
Just put the ignorant in their place. They are different from fans legitimately offering critical opinions. I hear Scholesy has left Oldham but just because he was known for criticizing Mourinho doesn't mean people should jump on his failure with glee.
Just because you used to be very helpful to the club and were exceptional talents, doesn't mean you can be disrespectful towards the club now or act like a dickhead.
Take a look at Ole. That's how you should act when you're the legend of the club. Respectful and classy. I also like Edwin.
I think they were absolutely right in critizing the team and players.
Yes, so it hurt us. Yes. It was an especially vulnerable time. It didn’t feel good to see it.
But they were right. And it’s even more true now, obviously. I’ll try to elaborate past the political correctness.
United after saf was dreadful at times. Dreadful. And if they, the past legends, out of everyone, wasn’t able to see it.. I mean, who was in a better position to see it?
And I’d guess they were easy to pick apart for their colleagues, watching a legacy being thrashed like that, over the course of three managers.
And yes. I guess many would love it if the majority of them were still working in United. As scouts, coaches and directors, but all of our legends can’t. We have too many, and working in a football club isn’t for everyone.
So think of it this way. We have too many legends, and some of the legend’s job is to voice their opinion, and that don’t make them any less.
Did Gary Neville show loyalty to Manchester United by constantly bad mouthing our players on TV? I am not saying he's 100% wrong all the time but how does slating Bailey heavily after his mistake help us? How does telling Pogba to "do one" and sticking to his theory about Pogba celebration toward Mourinho sacking help us? He's in position of influencing large portion of our fanbase and yet he still add more negativity to the situation?
Pundit is his job, but if I am a millionaire Manchester United fan will I accept a job that require me to talk shit about Manchester United? No.
What irks fans is the self entitlement and exploitation of United under this "class of 92" brand. That it somehow makes them more special than other United players simply because they were lucky enough to come through the youth ranks in a first world country with one of the biggest development academies going around at the time (lets not forget its because of Sir Alex that these kids were signed in the first place). Yet we've had players who have had far less privileged academy upbringings who have just as much love for United and dont put the boot in as quickly as this lot do.
Erica Cantona pretty much single-handedly did more the future proof and long term success for United than all of them put together, but he doesn't half carry on like this lot do... and he's the commissioner for football
Meh, the class of 92 were relevant until they retired. Now, they're just a bunch of loudmouths out for themselves.
Would Liverpool fans criticise one of their own post retirement like we do?
I get some of the stuff with Phil Neville and even Gary, but the hate for Scholes is surprising - especially as he has usually been spot on in terms of criticising the managers we had in charge.
Yes it’s quite ironic that he’s not been able to hack it and I guess there is some dark amusement to be got from that but genuinely revelling in his failures is weird. Even when Gary went to Valencia - doesn’t matter if he’s pissed me off a billion times as an ex United man I’d want him to do well, just like Phil with the women’s side and Giggs with Wales.
Safe to say Nicky Butt is the most respected player now of the lot. Then, Beckham.
Don't recall any bad things fans said about these two in recent years, who kept a much lower profile than the rest.
The match day threads have been allowed to go slightly behind the lines. You are not supposed to take it as the standard to move in other threads.
Yeah it’s strange. I see some “United fans” on Twitter relishing in the fact that Scholesy failed at Oldham... like... why?
Cause he badmouthed Mourinho? Look, I liked Jose and wanted him to succeed. But he was never truly one of us, was he? It’s bizarre for United fans to troll these guys who gave us so much.
You won’t hear a bad word about any United legend from me. I might disagree but I’d never go as far to give them hate or whatever. The Class Of 92, Keano, Ruud, Rio, Vidic, VDS, Ole... that was my childhood man.
It's the hipster thing to hate class of 92, just like it's hip to hate Captain Marvel.
I love how Gary Neville is disrespected as 'being political' with his measured opinions on football management on the one hand. And Scholes sho supposedly be 'respected' for some of the extreme and unfair positions he took up as a pundit, on the other....
Any United fan disrespecting the Class of 92 should be ashamed, and go cheer for City instead. The Class of 92 is our footballing heritage, United fans should defend it, never mind being on the other side.
Or what about people like you, who always get sosdefensive and can't handle any jab directed towards their beloved CO92 ?
This board has an unbelievable amount of hypocritical holier than thou softies. Better look at the mirror first lad
That was a gif I posted at an attempt to be humorous and bring some form of fun to the place, not to be critical
If you or others can't see that, that's not my problem. As I've stated, Oldham Football Club are not one of my priorities in life
So you're saying you're allowed to and it's OK to insult and disrespect players in a certain thread but, not others?
If you really want to be truthful about it, he had 1 win in 7 matches. He's a public figure, in the footballing world. He's going to get criticised for that, whether people like to think they're the best supporter in the world or not.
I'm sure he'll be fine. He's a football legend and has an incredible football brain. There's always a place for him here*
*The club, not RedCafe
To some extent, yes. The matchday thread allows a bit more than the rest of the threads, something that should be widely known.
If you really want to be truthful about it, it doesn't seem to have been him who picked the team, and him walking seems to have been a result of a promise of that not happening being broken. But ey, at least you tried to be funny.
Listen, you can try and be bitter about this all you want. I'm not even being critical of the guy and you're trying to start an argument
The gif was funny. Don't be pouting now
How people still insist on backing Mou is beyond me. First off, the United job was not his dream job. Mou have been slagging us of for moths, telling us that the team is so bad the we, the supporters, started to believe what he was saying. The mere fact that there wasn't an uproar when he took a massive shit on the club after the Sevilla loss still makes my blood boil. He tried to convince everyone that we are a club who would be lucky to finish top four, going as far as saying that his second place finish in the league and the EL victory in his second season was his greatest accomplishment in his career.
Luckily, Scholes is still a fan of United, and hence is on the right side of that division. When things becomes divided there is often a reason for it, a disagreement. In this instance that disagreement is Mou, and the more he contributed to that division the better, if you ask me. Put yourself in his position, your childhood club, won every major trophy there is, and in comes a guy telling everyone how the club not should expect to be in the quarter finales of the CL and that top 4 is ambitious.
That second bold line could easily been about Mou, talking about his own credentials after a loss. What kind of agenda do you mean that Scholes had when talking shit about the club?
I'm not saying that we can't criticize the man, but the share of vile comments is just bizarre. This is a guy who put his head down and did everything for our club, and should rightfully have more leeway when it comes to criticism and comments about the club. The fact that some people (not singling you out or saying that you have these views) is happy to see him fail is just sad.
No. They are apart of our football heritage but they are not the start or end of Manchester United historically. That is nothing but insulting to Sir Matt Busby and the many managers before him that developed a culture and an identity in our club. Even Sir Alex for all his success, is a continuation of that legacy. He didnt invent the wheel, he just mastered it.
Yeah, mind boggling, really.
Neville the pundit irks me a lot while I was upset with Scholes because I was under the impression that he was lenient on Moyes, then he was very harsh on LVG, then lenient with Mourinho and magically so the light and acted as if Mourinho was never a good fit. I like scholes and I like it when he doesn't try to be a professional pundit and speaks like a fan but I really can't stand his punditry.
And this has nothing to do with the club, it's about my subjectivity regarding his punditry, he never hurt the club.
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