Do we heavily rely on mistakes to score goals?

[horsechoker]

Martial's goal yesterday got me thinking that we've become increasingly reliant on defensive mistakes to score goals. It goes without saying that most teams get goals from mistakes but as we don't score that many goals it feels that a bigger percentage of our goals are down the other team messing up. This has perhaps spared our blushes in a few games, and when teams don't make mistakes then we probably won't win the game.

Does anyone agree?

Is this another stick to beat Ole and our attackers with?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

One could argue the energetic pressing causes mistakes.

 

[horsechoker]

One could argue the energetic pressing causes mistakes.

I suppose, but then why aren't we scoring more goals and how many of our goals are due to pressing?

 

[Relevated]

Other teams have capitalised on our mistakes last season and this season. We have made a tremendous amount. Do they rely on us to make mistakes?

 

[Gambit]

2 headers against Chelsea. Nope.

 

[Pexbo]

Aren’t all goals down to a defensive mistake on some level?

 

[JPRouve]

I suppose, but then why aren't we scoring more goals and how many of our goals are due to pressing?

Because we are not actually good at pressing?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I suppose, but then why aren't we scoring more goals and how many of our goals are due to pressing?

I think the problem with creativity in possession has been discussed abundantly elsewhere. Its no coincidence that the goals come from situations where possession is minimal like counter attacks and pressing that forces opposition mistakes and retrieving the ball high up the pitch.

 

[Rinnegan240]

I'm of the opinion that all goals are invariably related to an error from the conceding team at some point in the build up—even seemingly well worked goals.

If we're forcing errors from opposition, we must be doing something right.

The goal should be to create and implement a structured framework capable of triggering chaos in opposition shape and setups hereby forcing more errors to predate on.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

We are exactly the same as under Jose - we rely on mistakes and/or individual moments of brilliance to score. Nothing has changed, the players smile and fight a bit more but nothing else has changed whatsoever.

 

[T00lsh3d]

One could argue the energetic pressing causes mistakes.

We press energetically? I was thinking yesterday that I’ve seen more committed pressing from a dislocated shoulder. Wasn’t quite sure how to make the quip work though

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

We press energetically? I was thinking yesterday that I’ve seen more committed pressing from a dislocated shoulder. Wasn’t quite sure how to make the quip work though

Maybe they should look into injecting these players with some EPO and other synthetic drugs so they can play the same 11 thrice a week over a season and have them run around like energizer bunnies so funny guys like you whose only physically enduring sport is walking from the keyboard to the fridge to grab your one liter bottle of cola would have less to complain.

 

[Escobar]

We press energetically? I was thinking yesterday that I’ve seen more committed pressing from a dislocated shoulder. Wasn’t quite sure how to make the quip work though

Our pressing is a myth. We pressed hard in Ole's very first game but then we faded badly. Somehow, this myth got stuck in the head of the people. It is surely not a coordinated press

 

[kopviolator]

Of coure not...

We rely on past glory !

 

[T00lsh3d]

Maybe they should look into injecting these players with some EPO and other synthetic drugs so they can play the same 11 thrice a week over a season and have them run around like energizer bunnies so funny guys like you whose only physically enduring sport is walking from the keyboard to the fridge to grab your one liter bottle of cola would have less to complain.

Why one litre? Surely I’d buy 2 litres to save on trips to the fridge. I don’t think we press very well, and that’s comparative to other professional teams.
I’ll have you know also that I do play, though am pretty shite nowadays. Ok, have always been pretty shite, but enjoy the game

 

[roonster09]

We lack creativity to break down drilled defense, so we rely on quick transitions.

Hopefully this changes with Bruno in the side.

 

[cyberman]

We press higher which resukts in taking advantage of defenders under pressure

 

[Bilbo]

Aren’t all goals down to a defensive mistake on some level?

Yep

 

[2 man midfield]

Said this in the match day thread, and said it against Burnley as well when they gifted us a goal. It’s concerning that if it isn’t a mistake or a set piece, we struggle to score. There’s no consistent attacking style that allows us to break teams down and create chances, in fact we don’t really create chances. We play in moments and rely on individuals, whether that be from our own team or the opposition. It’s definitely a cause for concern.

 

[stevoc]

Every team relies on the opposition to make mistakes to score. Every time a team concede a goal one of their players to some extent has made a mistake.

 

[Denis' cuff]

Who doesn’t?

“defensive errors”... yep, that’s how 90% goals are scored

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Said this in the match day thread, and said it against Burnley as well when they gifted us a goal. It’s concerning that if it isn’t a mistake or a set piece, we struggle to score. There’s no consistent attacking style that allows us to break teams down and create chances, in fact we don’t really create chances. We play in moments and rely on individuals, whether that be from our own team or the opposition. It’s definitely a cause for concern.

Which begs the question doesn't it, of what exactly do Ole and his coaches 'coach'? He's basically shaping us to be a defensive team that scores in moments of brilliance, exactly the same as Mourinho - the Emperor is stark bollock naked.

 

[Tom Cato]

Martial's goal yesterday got me thinking that we've become increasingly reliant on defensive mistakes to score goals. It goes without saying that most teams get goals from mistakes but as we don't score that many goals it feels that a bigger percentage of our goals are down the other team messing up. This has perhaps spared our blushes in a few games, and when teams don't make mistakes then we probably won't win the game.

Does anyone agree?

Is this another stick to beat Ole and our attackers with?

Most goals come from defenders making a mistake. it doesnt matter what percentage of them are, it simply is what it is. Our players forcing a situation that creates a goal.

I assume what you're asking for is do we score enough goals from 20m out by personal brilliance? No, we don't.

 

[2 man midfield]

Which begs the question doesn't it, of what exactly do Ole and his coaches 'coach'? He's basically shaping us to be a defensive team that scores in moments of brilliance, exactly the same as Mourinho - the Emperor is stark bollock naked.

Exactly, I have no clue what the coaches even work on when it comes to attacking. Probably just shooting practice or something, because anything more than that isn’t visible in our matches. It’s the main reason I’m Ole out, I want us to hire an actual coach.

 

[Sky1981]

I dont care how you score the goal. Fluke, mistake, well drilled, individual brilliance, as long as you score everything is forgiven.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The majority of goals scored in football are as of the result of defensive errors of one type or another.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Exactly, I have no clue what the coaches even work on when it comes to attacking. Probably just shooting practice or something, because anything more than that isn’t visible in our matches. It’s the main reason I’m Ole out, I want us to hire an actual coach.

I mean, it would make sense, wouldn't it? We seem to be subject to very basic, dated coaching methods which is reflected in the basic way we play football. Ole just strikes me as a very old-fashioned manager to be honest. Very Moyesesque in general.

 

[TRUERED89]

2 headers against Chelsea. Nope.

Yes that's a good counter argument, but our last meaningfull win before Chelsea (Wolves FA Cup) was also a massive defensive mistake to let Mata through on goal for the 1-0 win.

 

[2 man midfield]

I mean, it would make sense, wouldn't it? We seem to be subject to very basic, dated coaching methods which is reflected in the basic way we play football. Ole just strikes me as a very old-fashioned manager to be honest. Very Moyesesque in general.

Pretty much. His management seems to revolve around 90s nostalgia, reminding players what club they’re playing for, to work hard etc, which was nice for about 3 months after the José borefest. But we should’ve stuck to the plan and kept up the search for a full time manager.

 

[El Jefe]

No. Rely is probably a strong word but the best teams exploit mistakes of their opponents.

This Liverpool side both last season and this season have scored many goals off errors or lapses in concentration from the other team. That is often the difference between 1 and 3 points.

 

[Odin]

Our pressing is a myth. We pressed hard in Ole's very first game but then we faded badly. Somehow, this myth got stuck in the head of the people. It is surely not a coordinated press

We seem to be working at it, though. Coordinated pressing requires... coordination! Which takes time, more so if you have a demoralised, complacent squad.

I'm of the opinion that all goals are invariably related to an error from the conceding team at some point in the build up—even seemingly well worked goals.

If we're forcing errors from opposition, we must be doing something right.

The goal should be to create and implement a structured framework capable of triggering chaos in opposition shape and setups hereby forcing more errors to predate on.

Spot on. A young squad in need of pruning will be error-prone. Teams with key players out, youngsters or past-it players filling the holes, can hardly be expected to gel quickly. I believe we are on our way to make fewer errors and force more from our opponents. As much as the majority of this forum hates it, the club chose to embark on the longer journey of a team rebuild over a quick-fix with galactico signings and instant gratification.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Pretty much. His management seems to revolve around 90s nostalgia, reminding players what club they’re playing for, to work hard etc, which was nice for about 3 months after the José borefest. But we should’ve stuck to the plan and kept up the search for a full time manager.

That's what I was trying to write. He's a nostalgic throwback Moyes type manager who thinks hard work and talking about previous achievements while keeping a positive atmosphere is all that's needed. He's very very outdated. You can tell he learned his trade under SAF, to be honest - same goes for Phelan and the rest of them, Bruce, Hughes, etc. All very outdated managers who haven't modernised.

 

[Irwin99]

2 headers against Chelsea. Nope.

Not sure I agree with thread but their centre back was concussed before for the first goal wasn’t he? and as Neville said the midfielder and the defender switched positions again just seconds before the goal it probably should have waited for the attack to end before doing that.

 

[tomaldinho1]

One could argue the energetic pressing causes mistakes.

We're not really a pressing team in honesty, I think Ole wanted us to be and either decided we don't have the players or has been trying unsuccessfully to implement it. Personally, I think having the ability to press in certain areas of the field is important but i would still much rather see us working more on the positional, possession based side - we don't have to go to the extremes of our time with LVG - but we need to be able to manage games and move teams around the pitch much better than we do now. When I watch us, there are a lot of very simple things like weight of pass, players not continuing runs and us being generally quite static (Bruno seems to buck this trend thankfully) which all contribute to our style being super direct, quite rushed and almost entirely reliant on the pace of our strikers latching onto longer balls.

 

[ash_86]

No. Rely is probably a strong word but the best teams exploit mistakes of their opponents.

This Liverpool side both last season and this season have scored many goals off errors or lapses in concentration from the other team. That is often the difference between 1 and 3 points.

This. Teams make mistake when they are pressed or under fear . I've seen Liverpool score countless goals like this during first few years under klopp. Lots of similarities I could see.

 

[cyril C]

Do you know the meaning of counter-attack team? Which is what we are, so right from the beginning, our tactics is to intercept and do a quick counter. So the only difference is whether it is an unforced error (like a gift) or a forced error, like we press and intercept.

What if opposition doesn't pass around and play long ball only, waiting for us to make mistake, well, we pass the ball sideway, sideway, sideway, until they make mistake....

 

[TheReligion]

Martial's goal yesterday got me thinking that we've become increasingly reliant on defensive mistakes to score goals. It goes without saying that most teams get goals from mistakes but as we don't score that many goals it feels that a bigger percentage of our goals are down the other team messing up. This has perhaps spared our blushes in a few games, and when teams don't make mistakes then we probably won't win the game.

Does anyone agree?

Is this another stick to beat Ole and our attackers with?

Were the two goals against Chelsea down to mistakes? Not sure what you're getting at here. We concede quite a few due to mistakes too so does the opposite apply?

 

[horsechoker]

Were the two goals against Chelsea down to mistakes? Not sure what you're getting at here. We concede quite a few due to mistakes too so does the opposite apply?

That's only one game out of many, it's also one of the few times that we've scored from a corner. Maybe things will improve with Fernandes on corners but over the season we've been poor at scoring from corners.

Not all of our goals come from mistakes but perhaps a larger percentage do compared to other teams because we're poor at creating chances from open play.

 

[TheReligion]

That's only one game out of many, it's also one of the few times that we've scored from a corner. Maybe things will improve with Fernandes on corners but over the season we've been poor at scoring from corners.

Not all of our goals come from mistakes but perhaps a larger percentage do compared to other teams because we're poor at creating chances from open play.

What about the amount of goals we conceded from mistakes?

And how do you quantify a mistake?

 

[Josep Dowling]

One could argue the energetic pressing causes mistakes.

Are you referring to Manchester United? Our press is awful.