DDG is on top form doing what he does best. Perfect time to cash in.
Funny he’s on top again when his goal is being peppered. Time to move on.
Funny he’s on top again when his goal is being peppered. Time to move on.
Do we need a modern goalkeeper?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Hendersons skill set is pretty much the same as De Gea. He’s willing come off his line a little more, but his judgement when he does isn’t great, and he’s not much better with the ball at his feet either.
I’ve not seen much of Tom Heaton, but isn’t he more of the same? You’d think we’d mix it up a little bit with the keepers.
Romero offered something a little different, I was disappointed when we let him go.
I remember De Gea used to come out of the box when Van Gaal was coach, maybe not all the time.
Anyways De Gea like any other player will have to step up and adapt.
Anyways De Gea like any other player will have to step up and adapt.
The thing with De gea is that - not only is he not a modern goalkeeper, he isn't an old school goalkeeper either.
Rangnick has talked about 30% importance of Set pieces for example - that gives me hope that he spends time looking at our set pieces and see that De Gea is a big problem of it.
Rangnick has talked about 30% importance of Set pieces for example - that gives me hope that he spends time looking at our set pieces and see that De Gea is a big problem of it.
"The form he's in" what's that then, costing us multiple goals a game due to his reluctance to leave his line and refusal to help his defenders out in any situations?
We should probably get a new keeper, but who? Henderson is a step down.
Very much this. He was really good when we played a high line with Smalling and Blind.
His all round game did seem to stop developing when Franz Hoek was sacked along with LvG. I hated it when he started hoofing it long for Jose.
Ultimately if we're moving towards a style of play more in keeping with that of the other top sides then he's on borrowed time. You can't be as average or below average at passing, sweeping and claiming as he is and expect to last at the very highest level based on shot-stopping alone. Goalkeeping doesn't work that way at that level any more, if it ever did.
The question is how much time he has left. It could be relatively immediate if the new manager prefers Henderson's more well rounded game, or it could be as much as season or so from now if the managers don't rate Henderson and have other priorities in terms of transfers.
If we're De Gea fans (and I certainly am) then the best we can hope for is a good exit, hopefully off the back of a cup win or something and a season of relatively good form. Something more positive that leaving in the wake of that UEFA Cup final defeat would have been. But he does need to be upgraded. Tactically he's a very real issue.
The question is how much time he has left. It could be relatively immediate if the new manager prefers Henderson's more well rounded game, or it could be as much as season or so from now if the managers don't rate Henderson and have other priorities in terms of transfers.
If we're De Gea fans (and I certainly am) then the best we can hope for is a good exit, hopefully off the back of a cup win or something and a season of relatively good form. Something more positive that leaving in the wake of that UEFA Cup final defeat would have been. But he does need to be upgraded. Tactically he's a very real issue.
Whether Peter and Edwin “would definitely excel” today as a modern keeper is an interesting hypothetical, though I agree with you that they would, but the point is they would excel today performing today as they performed during their careers.
Their strengths as keepers are timeless qualities that would benefit any club today. I’d easily take peak Schmiechel or Van Der Sar over any keeper on the planet today.
Too many missing outfield pieces at the moment. Modernize our midfield and backline first.
DdG is not going anywhere because he's paid too much and because we have bigger problems at the moment.
People need to let go already.
People need to let go already.
That's the thing with him... he is a great shot stopper but he is not a modern day sweeper keeper.
This misses the point. The defence is made to look considerably worse by having a goalkeeper behind them that they have no relationship with. And as a result of that the midfield looks worse because the defence is deeper, as such the shape of the team is more open rather than compressed. That's not to say we don't need players, certainly in midfield but upgrading the goalkeeper should be one of our highest priorities going forward because unless we plan on dropping back into defending on our 6 yard line (which I think it's fair to say is not Rangnicks style) then DDG is not the one.
The number of goals over the past month or two that were easily preventable by the goalkeeper coming out of his goal to deal with a ball into the box or over the top is ridiculous, and that's without looking at his basic errors against Atalanta, City and Watford. Look back at the run of games with Henderson behind them last season, considerably better performances both defensively and offensively because they could defend higher up the pitch knowing they were being supported by the goalkeeper.
Yeah we can't press with de Gea. He's great at what he does but unless he gets some ball skills and gets off his line he's not going to work out.
So far we have Pogba, Ronaldo and de Gea who can't press. That's a lot of salary. I feel like Ralf is going to find the next six months interesting.
So far we have Pogba, Ronaldo and de Gea who can't press. That's a lot of salary. I feel like Ralf is going to find the next six months interesting.
I think at times this season it's been more of a question of needing 2 goalkeepers
This.Hone stop the GK is the least of our worries right now….While David is prone to the odd error,his form generally has been good.Finding a good RB,restructuring the midfield,possibly finding an upgrade on Maguire should be our main priorities right now.
Are we top of the group with a match to spare without our current goalie? Are we even qualifying for the KOs without our current goalie?
I don’t disagree, but we’ll concede more goals if we have a GK who isn’t as good a shot stopper as DDG. In a team with plenty of areas that need improvement, GK is the least of our worries. Most of the goals we have conceded this year are not DDG’s fault, so I don’t think having a modern goal keeper is as impo
No, I mean the Rangnick who literally said the goalkeeper is the worst footballer on the pitch and should have the fewest touches of the ball.
Listen, I understand what you’re saying. And I actually agree to a point tbh. But the thing is, DDG is still an incredible shot stopper, and not as bad at distribution as people think. His command of the area isn’t the best I’ll admit, but if you think Rangnick is going to come in and say the GK position is one that we need to improve on/play Hendo in, I’ll gladly venmo you $50. It simply isn’t as important as shot stopping ability is.
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He's always been that type of keeper. Loses concentration when he's not called upon a lot in the games.
Do we really believe that DDG is incapable of adding to his overall game? It will be extermely difficult to sell him as he is on astronomical wages. Another important question is what happens to Deano? Will he take over if DDG moves on , or will he ask for a move himself because we will start looking for a new keeper? I expect some big changes in our goalkeeping department at the end of the season.
GK is the least of the worries we have.
However if we aim to be dominant in possession or the counter, then you'll need a GK that can be part of general play. Otherwise he will be the bottleneck holding your team back. Extreme example, but Neuer is not only a great keeper in between the sticks, he's indispensable to how Bayern build from the back, keep the opposition honest and so on
However if we aim to be dominant in possession or the counter, then you'll need a GK that can be part of general play. Otherwise he will be the bottleneck holding your team back. Extreme example, but Neuer is not only a great keeper in between the sticks, he's indispensable to how Bayern build from the back, keep the opposition honest and so on
Yes I do think it's quite difficult for DDG to add to his game at this stage improbable but not impossible .
With him in last year of his contract in summer unless we trigger the option of another year which we shouldn't , he would be much more amenable to moving if he we make it clear he won't be our No 1 going forward .
No Idea about Henderson to be honest.
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I've questioned our struggles in the build up phase many times over the years and have criticized several outfield players for their part. But De Gea is just as culpable and his flaws when it comes to a lack of command of area, dreadful 1v1 ability, along with average to below average distribution, makes him unsuited for a team that wants to implement a progressive brand of football. It's why Luis Enrique has dropped him for Spain in favour of Unai Simon. De Gea will have one year left on his contract after the current season, so the time to upgrade on him is fast approaching.
Did Rangnick say the worst or most limited? And what he meant when he said that, was that the idea is to play a vertical game which is most important and passing sideways or back wards towards the keeper is frowned upon, hence Rangnick like Klopp looks to implement a high tempo, fast transition play style by playing a very direct game with minimal amount of passes through the lines, towards goal. A brand of football that is referred to as 'heavy metal football'. The keeper even in such a setup has to be good with the ball (for a keeper) at his feet and provide sweeper abilities hence Klopp at Liverpool bought Allison for £70m. But Rangnick as far as we know is only here for 6 months as head coach, so he's not the one i'm looking towards, but rather the fulltime head coach.
I've questioned our struggles in the build up phase many times over the years and have criticized several outfield players for their part. But De Gea is just as culpable and his flaws when it comes to a lack of command of area, dreadful 1v1 ability, along with average to below average distribution, makes him unsuited for a team that wants to implement a progressive brand of football. It's why Luis Enrique has dropped him for Spain in favour of Unai Simon. De Gea will have one year left on his contract after the current season, so the time to upgrade on him is fast approaching.
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For me, Mendy is the best GK in the league and he is probably the most 'old skool' keeper in the league. When it comes to GK's I will always take the one who dominates their box aerially and is and excellent shot stopper over others that aren't so good at those but can maybe do a Cruyff turn and a 40+ yard pass.
I am not saying distribution isn't important but when it comes to goalkeeping doing the basics to a high level is important. I mean, even those GK's that can play out then sometimes have a habit of over playing and start conceding more chances from it (goals/corners/throw in's close to goal etc.)
I am not saying distribution isn't important but when it comes to goalkeeping doing the basics to a high level is important. I mean, even those GK's that can play out then sometimes have a habit of over playing and start conceding more chances from it (goals/corners/throw in's close to goal etc.)
I agree with you, and it just goes to show what a good coach Tuchel is, due to how he's adapted to Mendy, when Tuchel is normally a coach that looks to implement a hybrid, possession/direct transition play style from his early career IMO . I find similarities in both Tuchel and ten Hag.
But going back to Mendy, his ability to command his box has thus far shown to be very important for the Chelsea back line.
That's the key. A keeper who controls his box well allows his defence to play 10-15m more forward compared to someone who stays on the line all the time. You don't need to be a great passer to have that effect on your team. An old school maniac who keeps the ball out of the box and isn't afraid to crash into strikers is absolutely enough to play a high line.
Agreed, it's a vital component in a keeper's armoury now and even decades earlier.
@Pogue Mahone how about picking up that young Irish keeper from City? 
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I agree with needing a modern goalkeeper, but what exactly does the stats show about Henderson? Is he modern? Is he good? Is he better and more all rounded etc?
The above seems like bollocks to me. I'd like to see his methods of calculating that.
Yeah I know, De gea doesn't remind me of claiming crosses even once, never mind six.
I've watched him closely this season. He's absolutely brilliant. Has the potential to be as good as Ederson. Just needs to find the right club going forward.@Pogue Mahone how about picking up that young Irish keeper from City?
He's about average but as the tweet below suggests, I'd personally look to give Henderson a chance over De Gea due to him being better when it comes to claiming and sweeping, and look for a long term #1 at the end of the season.
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Bazunu?
Can we just buy players off City like that?
I also want to find out who this Setford goalkeeper is for Ajax (a pure FM find).
But... but... but... De Gea makes saves... and that's his job and saves and he makes them and they are good ones.
De Gea needs replacing and has done for about 3 years. Henderson should be given a shot at number one, probably would have been this season had he not been sick, De Gea made a few saves and Ole was too pussy to make the right call. All the stats last season proved he was better for the team overall, concede less chances, less goals, win more games and kept more clean sheets.
I wanted him as a number 1 this season too, the team just felt better with him in it even if he isn't the best goalkeeper.
It's like how I used to feel with Romero, I preferred his performances in the Europa league and how we played as a team because of it.