Do you class Pogba as injury prone?

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He’s one of those players who seems to escape the injury prone label but seems to miss a large chunk of games every season. I never hear anyone mention that he’s injury prone when weighing up his pros/cons like they would if talking about someone like Bailly for example.
 

DWelbz19

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He’s certainly going that way. He’s missed a lot of football in the last two years down to injury.
 

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Hasn’t he only been injury prone the last two seasons? Proper sicknotes like Bailly should get loads of injuries every season.
He’s missed several games every season he’s been at United. I think he’s only played something like 3 games against Liverpool in 5 years.
 

RUCK4444

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I wouldn't say 'injury prone' but the two injuries he has had have meant a long time on the sidelines. As opposed to somebody like Bailly or Jones etc who pickup minor knocks every other day.

I think it's the groin this time for Pogba? What was it last time?
 

charlenefan

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Yep every season he misses at least a month (not talking accumulatively either)
 

Pogue Mahone

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I can think of four, maybe five, regular starters who are unusually injury resistant (not naming them, obvs!) Then a bunch of players who get injured a “usual” amount. Then a couple of pure sicknotes (Bailly and Jones)

Pogba feels like he’s at the more fragile end of “usual”

Surely someone can check the stats?!
 

JPRouve

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Side note. I don’t think players who are the opposite of injury prone don’t get enough credit. It’s a massive positive attribute. Should add millions to their value. Not naming any names as don’t want to jinx them!
They don't deserve credit. While from a management standpoint availability is a good thing, there is no reason to give any credit to a player for not being at the wrong end of a tackle or biology. And you don't add millions to their value because you don't actually know what may happen in 5 minutes, now players with bad injury records will have millions substracted to their value due to a negative past.
 

Samid

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Side note. I don’t think players who are the opposite of injury prone don’t get enough credit. It’s a massive positive attribute. Should add millions to their value. Not naming any names as don’t want to jinx them!
True. That's why the likes of Salah, Mane, Robertson, Son, Sterling, Dias, Ederson etc. are so valuable.
 

cyril C

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Officially NO. Not until we have sold him at a decent price.
 

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I can think of four, maybe five, regular starters who are unusually injury resistant (not naming them, obvs!) Then a bunch of players who get injured a “usual” amount. Then a couple of pure sicknotes (Bailly and Jones)

Pogba feels like he’s at the more fragile end of “usual”

Surely someone can check the stats?!
Yes, Pogba isn't unusually injured but still prone to injuries, thighs and ankles.
 

Pogue Mahone

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They don't deserve credit. While from a management standpoint availability is a good thing, there is no reason to give any credit to a player for not being at the wrong end of a tackle or biology. And you don't add millions to their value because you don't actually know what may happen in 5 minutes, now players with bad injury records will have millions substracted to their value due to a negative past.
Well that’s plain wrong. Pace, aerobic fitness, strength, reaction speed, coordination etc. All influenced by “biology”. All important attributes for footballers.
 

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I think the multiple long absences of last season make it seem worse than it really is. I wouldnt go as far as calling him injury prone yet because prior to that he had normal amount of injury related absences I would say.
 

Roane

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Think there's too many variables.

Jones and Bailly yes injury prone. But was shaw as injury prone before the leg break? Will VVD be more injury prone when he gets back? Rashford wasn't injury prone then had the back issue and I doubt he is fully fit even now but gets played

Rushing players back makes them injury prone but it's linked to one injury.

Groin strain, thigh strain etc are part and parcel of the game. Doesn't necessarily mean a player is injury prone.
 

JPRouve

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Well that’s plain wrong. Pace, aerobic fitness, strength, reaction speed, coordination etc. All influenced by “biology”. All important attributes for footballers.
That's not the point and you know it. We are talking about injuries which aren't attributes but events, there is no reason to credit a player for not being the victim of a tackle that may have long term consequences, there is no credit to give to a player that may not have joint inflammations yet.
 

largelyworried

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Not really. For me injury prone means one injury after another over a long period. Pogba had a fantastic appearance record before last season - generally 40 to 50 games a season since he broke through. And while he missed a lot of last season, that was really just one problem as opposed to multiple ones. I see that as quite different.

This season he's been more what you'd call injury prone, with a few different things occurring after each other. But you can't read too much into a single season, it could just be bad luck. If he continues like this for another season or two, sure. But not yet.
 

Pogue Mahone

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That's not the point and you know it. We are talking about injuries which aren't attributes but events, there is no reason to credit a player for not being the victim of a tackle that may have long term consequences, there is no credit to give to a player that may not have joint inflammations yet.
Injuries are about more than just luck. Some players are just more resilient, physically. They heal quicker, have stronger ligaments, tendons and muscles. Have a higher pain threshold. Might even be better proprioception and balance helping avoid awkward stumbles or falls.

Whatever. It’s definitely a quality that some players have but others don’t. There’s no way Frank Lampard played as many games as he did purely because of good luck.
 

DWelbz19

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Ok sorry. He’s missed several games in all but one season he’s been here. Happy?
Hmm. Not sure.
2016/17: 51 appearances in all comps (30 in the PL - one suspension). Solid turnout.

2017/18: 37 appearances in all comps (27 in the PL - though 3 game ban). Not a great turnout, but not abysmal, though I do think this was the season he fell out with Jose? Or is my timeline wrong

2018/19: 47 appearances in all comps (35 in PL). Very solid season.

2019/20: 22 appearances in all comps (16 in the PL). Awful turnout, had two very big injuries this season.

2020/21: 28 appearances in all comps so far (19 out of 25 PL matches so far). Depending on how soon he recovers and how fit he stays for the rest of the season, this one can go either way.

Summary of fitness:
2016/17: good
2017/18: meh leaning on bad
2018/19: very good
2019/20: awful
2020/21: meh, could potentially lean either way
 

Tom Cato

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Hasn’t he only been injury prone the last two seasons? Proper sicknotes like Bailly should get loads of injuries every season.
What part about two seasons and injury prone equals to "only"?

Paul Pogba has become injury prone.

Can the club afford to extend a player with a history of missing considerable gametime to a top earner contract?
 

JPRouve

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Injuries are about more than just luck. Some players are just more resilient, physically. They heal quicker, have stronger ligaments, tendons and muscles. Have a higher pain threshold. Might even be better proprioception and balance helping avoid awkward stumbles or falls.

Whatever. It’s definitely a quality that some players have but others don’t. There’s no way Frank Lampard played as many games as he did purely because of good luck.
The problem is fairly simple, when it comes to injury proneness one particular injury can turn an ironman fate. You may want to talk about luck in an attempt to dismiss the reality that circumstances are extremely important in that particular topic but I'm pretty sure that you know it yourself, you can't give credit to someone for something they don't control. Also Lampard has had a few weeks/months out injured more than once, Evra would be a better example.

Now, as I said from a management standpoint durable players are valuable but there is no credit to be handed.
 

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The problem is fairly simple, when it comes to injury proneness one particular injury can turn an ironman fate. You may want to talk about luck in an attempt to dismiss the reality that circumstances are extremely important in that particular topic but I'm pretty sure that you know it yourself, you can't give credit to someone for something they don't control. Also Lampard has had a few weeks/months out injured more than once, Evra would be a better example.

Now, as I said from a management standpoint durable players are valuable but there is no credit to be handed.
That’s all I’m saying. I don’t know why you’re getting hung up on “credit”. They don’t deserve credit any more than players who are tall or strong or have freakish aerobic capacity. But it’s undeniably a great quality to have.

What muddies the waters is that, yes, a single nasty injury due to pure bad luck can turn a resilient player into someone who is injury prone, if it permanently messes up their biodynamics (I think this is what happened to Luke Shaw, who never missed a game at Southampton). But that doesn’t take away from the fact that some players are more resilient to begin with. And that makes them more valuable members of the squad than their fragile peers.
 

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Hes been injury prone for ages. Loads of muscle injuries, ankle injuries, etc, all the repetitive types unfortunately. Pretty much in half the seasons since he came. It's why I think he'll likely decline earlier than normal.
 

JPRouve

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That’s all I’m saying. I don’t know why you’re getting hung up on “credit”. They don’t deserve credit any more than players who are tall or strong or have freakish aerobic capacity. But it’s undeniably a great quality to have.

What muddies the waters is that, yes, a single nasty injury due to pure bad luck can turn a resilient player into someone who is injury prone. But that doesn’t take away from the fact that some players are more resilient to begin with. And that makes them more valuable members of the squad than their fragile peers.
But that's not what you said or even insinuated, you made the point that they don't get enough credit. If you had simply said that it was a good quality to have then I would have had nothing to say because that's true and everyone acknowledges it which is why injury prone players are very often unfairly talked about as if they necessarily did something wrong. Also your last point is only true if we are talking about two players of equal quality because otherwise Robben was more valuable than almost any other winger not named Ribéry, Ronaldo or Messi.

Some players have physical weaknesses that make them injury prone, it was the case for players like Robben but managing them differently was worth it because they were that good. From a management standpoint, it's a matter of balance you don't want a team full of players that are prone to injuries but having great contributors that happen to be injury prone is okay, though average and below average players will be more penalized by it because they are easily replaceable.

Anyway my point was that there is not more credit to give to durable players which doesn't mean that it's not valued by management otherwise medicals would be a thing.
 

Pogue Mahone

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But that's not what you said or even insinuated, you made the point that they don't get enough credit. If you had simply said that it was a good quality to have then I would have had nothing to say because that's true and everyone acknowledges it which is why injury prone players are very often unfairly talked about as if they necessarily did something wrong. Also your last point is only true if we are talking about two players of equal quality because otherwise Robben was more valuable than almost any other winger not named Ribéry, Ronaldo or Messi.

Some players have physical weaknesses that make them injury prone, it was the case for players like Robben but managing them differently was worth it because they were that good. From a management standpoint, it's a matter of balance you don't want a team full of players that are prone to injuries but having great contributors that happen to be injury prone is okay, though average and below average players will be more penalized by it because they are easily replaceable.

Anyway my point was that there is not more credit to give to durable players which doesn't mean that it's not valued by management otherwise medicals would be a thing.
When I say they don’t get enough credit I’m talking about redcafe!

This thread being an obvious example. A thread dedicated to criticising one player’s injury record. One of many similar threads. Can you find any threads about how player x, y, z is resistant to injuries? Or even comments in their performance threads along the same lines?

I’m going to have to stop this conversation now. I’m desperately trying to avoid naming names, which doesn’t help the discussion. We’re getting dangerously close to jinx territory!

EDIT: Although jinx fear is probably the reason for them not getting credit. I’ve answered my own question.
 

JPRouve

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When I say they don’t get enough credit I’m talking about redcafe!

This thread being an obvious example. A thread dedicated to criticising one player’s injury record. One of many similar threads. Can you find any threads about how player x, y, z is resistant to injuries? Or even comments in their performance threads along the same lines?

I’m going to have to stop this conversation now. I’m desperately trying to avoid naming names, which doesn’t help the discussion. We’re getting dangerously close to jinx territory!
I don't follow. There is nothing to say about a player that hasn't been injured yet, what would you even say? The one player that you are probably thinking about as been mentioned more than once due to the amount of minutes that he has played last year and that's really the only thing you can do.
 

Pogue Mahone

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I don't follow. There is nothing to say about a player that hasn't been injured yet, what would you even say? The one player that you are probably thinking about as been mentioned more than once due to the amount of minutes that he has played last year and that's really the only thing you can do.
Feck me. Are you deliberately being obtuse?! There’s more than one player who seems unusually injury resistant. Including one who plays in the same position of Pogba. And I don’t think I’ve ever read a single post acknowledging this fact.

I’ll leave it there now. I’m far too superstitious to take this any further. You’ll have to work out who I’m talking about for yourself.
 

thegregster

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A lot of people say Pogba is a superb athlete but I don't think he ever was.

He has only every played well for shot periods for United. I dont think he has ever been capable of playing a 50 game season at full pelt. Hence why he looked so good at the world cup. A month where he can go all out.
 

JPRouve

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Feck me. Are you deliberately being obtuse?! There’s more than one player who seems unusually injury resistant. Including one who plays in the same position of Pogba. And I don’t think I’ve ever read a single post acknowledging this fact.

I’ll leave it there now. I’m far too superstitious to take this any further. You’ll have to work out who I’m talking about for yourself.
No need to lose your mind mate. :)
 

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Side note. I don’t think players who are the opposite of injury prone don’t get enough credit. It’s a massive positive attribute. Should add millions to their value. Not naming any names as don’t want to jinx them!
That is right. Usually these are the players often criticised for their price tag like HM and Fred who are our key players. Would add Bruno there too, he really was a steal.

For the bottom level part I think it´s more about the consistency because enyone can have a horrible game and it happened to everyone before, so for that reason I agree with Luke Shaw, It´s his higher gear weve been looking for for the majority of his career. I think in that sense of his contribution he would be the Carrick of defenders as MC really achieved the world class level for a season and a half time but througout years his bottom level was very high and he was super consistent.

Fred I think might have a few average games before the last one in terms of his passing but generally he´s been superb for us, since the end of his first season with us. Always provides high class defensive attributes that we lack otherwise we are half the team.

Maguire for that reason is also very high, absolutely dominates the air, and physical duels, fearlesss with the ball and with confidence.

Good shout for AWB too, you knowwhat you can expect from the kid and and he had a rougher "average" patch but more often than not weknow how he´s gonna play.

McT had some horrible and not good enough games over the years but I feel he´s one of the few more consistent players with maybe nto so high potential but can do his job kinda status.

Lastly I´d like to mention coaching and the system as I think players can sometimes be as consistent as their manager let them. If we had a proper system, not relying on playersindividual brilliance at timess, some player would look so much better. But that´s for another debate..
 

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Nah - it was only last season that was a write off. He was averaging 40+ appearances per year in first 3 seasons with us
 

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His latest injury came from a non-contact play. A simple pass and suddenly a muscular injury that’s kept him out several weeks. The ankle injury kept him out almost the entire season last year. He’s 28 in a few weeks and any new deal would keep him here until 33. If we do resign him, there is a risk that the injury issues continue and we’re stuck with another high earner who doesn’t contribute. He would be a loss short-term but I think the wise approach is still sell him and reinvest elsewhere. We can make do with our midfield options.