Do you think Ole has or does not have the ability to take us back to the top? And why?

Bobcat

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Win the league? I dont know. If we follow the trend of the past few years where the winner has had 90+ points then no. City having lost Aguero and Silva though are in a bit of a transition as two key players have gone. I dont know about Liverpool, have they looked leggy this season? No doubt VDV is a big miss for them, but they have not been that good honestly. Who knows

Has he taken us closer? Definitely. The squad and the club is in a much better state now than it was when he took over and many of these players have yet to or have just entered their best years so this particular group of players will only get better the next couple of seasons imo

The problem pre Bruno was that we struggled with creativity. That has been solved, but the problem this season is that we have shipped way to many stupid goals, which is disappointing since we were fairly solid in defence last year. Tactically Ole is a bit hit and miss, some really good games and some feck ups, but that happens to everyone.

If we got in a Carrick type DM and a prolific, goal scoring CF who knows how to lead the line i'd say most of the pieces are in place.
 

kkengvib

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To be honest I never felt from the beginning that Ole would be winning us trophies but I did feel he would bring back stability to the club, get rid of deadwood, and re-instill the United culture.
I think he's done mostly of what I expected and this is perhaps as far as he could potentially take us. I'm thankful for all he's done but if we want to move to the next level we'll need someone more tactically competent to take us there.
It doesn't have to be a big name. I'd also take another up and coming young manager who has a clear philosophy that fits Utd (e.g. youth development) and has demonstrated a clear playing style (preferably attractive attacking football).
 

OleBoiii

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So I have no expectations that we will end up with an equally good team or a better team than the other 19 with the way we the club is run. And this is why I would say we Ole is not the right man to take us to the top.
This is where we differ. I'd rather focus the blame at the core issue. To me, accepting that we can't compete with City and fecking Chelsea and Liverpool, is the wrong way to go about it. I reckon the Glazers are laughing all the way to the bank when they read things like this. There is absolutely no reason for us to be poorly run or to not keep spending high until we're back at the top. The last 3 summer transfer windows have been very underwhelming for a club of our size, when you consider the quality difference between us and our rivals.

I'd rather be vocal about the club being poorly run and the manager having a needlessly difficult task than starting a manager roulette until we find the next Fergie. The way I see it, changing manager every year is for teams that are in a dominant position in their league. Bayern, PSG, Juventus, Real and Barca can do this because quite frankly it's considered a failure to not win a major trophy every year for these teams. The PL is different. It takes something very special to win back-to-back majors here.
 

OleBoiii

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A combination of the two: build a team of individuals as good as any of your rivals, but then manage to get relatively more out of your team than the other managers can get out of theirs.
You can't build a sturdy construction with shit materials, though. Some fans criticize Ole for relying on Bruno, while simultaneously forgetting that Klopp have 5(!) players of Bruno's caliber. 1 of is "homegrown"(TAA). 1 wasn't Klopp's signing(Salah). 2 were transfer records in their position and the best available on the market(VDD and Alisson). 1 was very likely second choice(Mane) and turned out to be way better than anyone would expect. It's a stroke of luck more than a case of brilliant scouting.

Being the best manager in the league is what a United manager must aspire to, even with Pep and Klopp involved.
And what if those two are the best managers in the world by a considerable margin?

Or maybe we should just try to get Klopp.
Wouldn't that be glorious :lol:
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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This is where we differ. I'd rather focus the blame at the core issue. To me, accepting that we can't compete with City and fecking Chelsea and Liverpool, is the wrong way to go about it. I reckon the Glazers are laughing all the way to the bank when they read things like this. There is absolutely no reason for us to be poorly run or to not keep spending high until we're back at the top. The last 3 summer transfer windows have been very underwhelming for a club of our size, when you consider the quality difference between us and our rivals.

I'd rather be vocal about the club being poorly run and the manager having a needlessly difficult task than starting a manager roulette until we find the next Fergie. The way I see it, changing manager every year is for teams that are in a dominant position in their league. Bayern, PSG, Juventus, Real and Barca can do this because quite frankly it's considered a failure to not win a major trophy every year for these teams. The PL is different. It takes something very special to win back-to-back majors here.
The Glazers own the club so they aren't going anywhere. And Woodward should have been sacked a few years back given how much money has been wasted but that hasn't happened. The people running the club aren't going anywhere. It's really up to be players and the coach to work with their incompetence.

This is why I think we need a coach that can get the team to perform more than the sum of its parts rather than one that can only win titles if he's provided a superior squad to the rest of the other teams. If you think Ole is the latter(I think so) then he isn't the right man to take us to the top because he the board won't provide him with such a squad and they most likely aren't going anywhere
 

romufc

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Let's look at it this way. Why did Liverpool hire Klopp?
Their manager finished 2nd and then dipped in the new season.

A manager who had won the Bundesliga playing good football, got to CL final.

There is not a coach out there with that pedigree at the moment.
 

Foxbatt

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Their manager finished 2nd and then dipped in the new season.

A manager who had won the Bundesliga playing good football, got to CL final.

There is not a coach out there with that pedigree at the moment.
But there are coaches who are closer to him than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
 

bsCallout

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No. Clearly.

This league is there for us to win. Get rid of him & take our title back it’s been too long & now is the time. I’d sack him tonight. Sentiment is hurting us so much. Too much of a soft centre. Soft clubs don’t win titles. Ruthless clubs do. If we have any ambition Ole would be gone tonight & we would chase down this title.
With what manager?
 

OleBoiii

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Let's look at it this way. Why did Liverpool hire Klopp?
Klopp was way out of Liverpool's league when they hired him. I'm still to this day shocked that they managed to get him. The only logical explanation is that Klopp himself wanted to go specifically to Liverpool. I'm 100% convinced that Liverpool would be struggling more than us if they didn't get Klopp. He was their once in a generation lifeline and the bastards got him.

I still get triggered when I think about the Klopp interview where he talks about his meeting with Woodward. He compared us to fecking Disney Land and thought that would sway Klopp :lol:
 

troylocker

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No - can't see the team having the mettle or consistency to sustain the kind of pressure that comes with leading the table. We usually perform best when our backs are against the wall.

How many times did we throw away the opportunity to overtake Chelsea last season?
Good example! Did we overtake them?
 

HowYouDoin

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Klopp was way out of Liverpool's league when they hired him. I'm still to this day shocked that they managed to get him. The only logical explanation is that Klopp himself wanted to go specifically to Liverpool. I'm 100% convinced that Liverpool would be struggling more than us if they didn't get Klopp. He was their once in a generation lifeline and the bastards got him.

I still get triggered when I think about the Klopp interview where he talks about his meeting with Woodward. He compared us to fecking Disney Land and thought that would sway Klopp :lol:

Hahaha disney land. We are such a joke. That tells you everything right there how Woodward sees the world etc.
We operate in a delusional state away from reality, to say the least.
 

HowYouDoin

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Their manager finished 2nd and then dipped in the new season.

A manager who had won the Bundesliga playing good football, got to CL final.

There is not a coach out there with that pedigree at the moment.
Ummm Pochettino..
Finished 2nd in the PL, got to CL finals, played great football. Meets your criteria. Should have hired long time ago.
 

Buster15

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If the question is purely about his abilities, then no. I have not been a big fan of Ole, but I would love to be proved wrong.
There has been some progress. The squad is more balanced than before.
But my biggest concern is and has been:
The standard of coaching.
His ability to extract the maximum out what is a reasonable squad.
His tactical leadership.

When I watch United, I rarely get the impression that he has the ability to transform United into something like a Liverpool.
So. Progress Yes.
Can he take us all the way No.
 

johanovic

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I like OGS as a person and admired him as a player but I think he´s not good enough for United BUT hopefully he will prove me wrong.....Pochettino, Nagelsmann, Allegri are all bette bets in my estimate...Ancelotti has shown his worth yet again at Everton and you could even speculate that Brendan Rodgers and Hassenhuttl have been able to form a clear playing style and tactics that OGS has not been able to...My main criticism of OGS is a lack of playing style and no clear vision of how to proceed....BUT I would be happy to be proven wrong on this opinion....One could argue that with new signings like a top cb+rw+dm like Upamecano, Zakaria and Sancho we would be getting closer...I fully expect Romero,Bailly,Jones,Rojo,Mata,Ighalo plus Pogba to be out of the club in the not to distant future.....OGS has gotten rid of Smalling,Sancez,Peireira(L),Dalot(L),Lukaku,Young,Darmian,Herrera,Valencia and Fellaini to name a few...so you are talking about around 10 first squad players out in the first 2 years with probably 7 others following soon...It could be stated in OGS defence that not many other top club squads were in need of such drastic changes as United were...But I think most of us agree with the assement of those players that were let go...
 

OleBoiii

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Anyone thinking they are clever when they want us to sign the next hot thing from Germany because it could be the next Klopp either severely underestimate Klopp's achievements or don't understand that winning major trophies back to back(or even once for that matter) is wildly different from taking a midtable team to top 4(for instance).

Hipster managers are a shot in the dark and proven winners(Pep, Klopp and Mourinho) are rare. Since we sacked Mourinho, are there any proven winners left that we could realistically get? There's a reason for why more and more top teams are willing to try fairly unproven managers instead of hipsters/miracle workers. There is absolutely no guarantee that these hipsters will work because winning titles is very different from making a team of nobodies overperform. They are completely different jobs. The personality of the manager probably matters more than you think.
 

HowYouDoin

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Yeah...Ole is someone that probably no team in the PL would want. Would the likes of Fulham go after him if he became available? Not really.
Yet you all expect him to get us to win titles? It just doesnt add up. If he was capable of that, all best teams in the world would be interested in him. At the very least the likes of Arsenal, Leicester, Everton, at the very least.

It just doesnt add up what you want him to be.
 

Buster15

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Ummm Pochettino..
Finished 2nd in the PL, got to CL finals, played great football. Meets your criteria. Should have hired long time ago.
I would go along with that. Clearly I don't know about every coach out there.
But I was pretty impressed with what he achieved at Tottenham.
I do feel that intellectually, he is brighter than Ole and has a broader skill set. Could he transform Manchester United?.
My gut feeling is that he has a better chance than Ole.
 

romufc

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Ummm Pochettino..
Finished 2nd in the PL, got to CL finals, played great football. Meets your criteria. Should have hired long time ago.
So? Ole finished 3rd in the PL. Your point is null.

Meets my criteria? Poch has one of the worst records against top 6 clubs...

Klopp had won 2 titles in a league that Bayern win the title most seasons.

Klopp knew how to win leagues and cups

Poch cancelled all other cups. If he is that good of a manager, why didn't he get Spurs a League cup or an FA cup win?
 

HowYouDoin

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I would go along with that. Clearly I don't know about every coach out there.
But I was pretty impressed with what he achieved at Tottenham.
I do feel that intellectually, he is brighter than Ole and has a broader skill set. Could he transform Manchester United?.
My gut feeling is that he has a better chance than Ole.
Well your gut feeling just may be right.
Getting to the CL finals is just a bit better on the resume as your best accomplishment than relegating Cardiff.

And winning 86 points is also a bit better than Ole winning 66 points last year and miraculously at that after Bruno arrived.
 

HowYouDoin

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So? Ole finished 3rd in the PL. Your point is null.

Meets my criteria? Poch has one of the worst records against top 6 clubs...

Klopp had won 2 titles in a league that Bayern win the title most seasons.

Klopp knew how to win leagues and cups

Poch cancelled all other cups. If he is that good of a manager, why didn't he get Spurs a League cup or an FA cup win?
Poch won 86 points with Tottenham in their best year. Ole got 66 last year. 2 more than Moyes.
He was beyond lucky Bruno transformed the team and both Chelsea and Leicester crashed so epically. CL wasnt even on the table for us for most of last year, it was almost a miracle.
 

Doracle

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Their manager finished 2nd and then dipped in the new season.

A manager who had won the Bundesliga playing good football, got to CL final.

There is not a coach out there with that pedigree at the moment.
Not quite correct. Their previous manager finished 2nd, then 6th and then started the new season badly (they were 10th when he was sacked).
 

romufc

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Poch won 86 points with Tottenham in their best year. Ole got 66 last year. 2 more than Moyes.
He was beyond lucky Bruno transformed the team and both Chelsea and Leicester crashed so epically. CL wasnt even on the table for us for most of last year, it was almost a miracle.
Oh so now we should look at points not the league table? Looks like Pep is the best ever because Fergie never got 100 points?

So signing top players is luck? In that case Poch was lucky to have a WC striker at the club...

Not saying Ole is a better manager / coach, the initial point was why they hired Klopp.

He was a winner, he won titles for a club that didnt and still hasnt since he left.

Spurs are top of the league with a similar squad.. which shows the players were good enough to win the league or a trophy and they didnt.

So what Poch done at Spurs wasn't really anything that special considering they were getting top 4 before he joined anyway.

So when we get 3rd - Ole got lucky?

Poch got CL final is not luck? City missing penalty, 3-0 down to Ajax is normal?
 

romufc

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Not quite correct. Their previous manager finished 2nd, then 6th and then started the new season badly (they were 10th when he was sacked).
Apologies, he was given a season to see whether he can improve or not, he didn't and got sacked and was appointed a manager who can win titles.
 

Freak

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I think he has the ability to get us back into the top 4 regularly. However I do not think he will get us into being regular challengers for the title. He does not have the ruthlessness that most title winning managers have. He's far too nice.
 

SAFMUTD

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We should hire him as a happiness coach, since his biggest merit seems to be "have the squad happy not like what we were under Mourinho last months".

As if not losing the squad completely is a huge achievement.
 

Ali Dia

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Manager aside do we have the players to get us over 80 points or win the CL. No most likely not. It’s still an incomplete team with weird owners and an inexperienced manager who isn’t being fully backed. He’s up against better owners that are 100% geared towards building a great team whatever it takes.

Most major squad issues predate Ole. Pogba, the glazers meddling, over reliance on martial, no right wing, stupid transfer and contract deals we are still paying off.

we’ve been scoring more goals.he’s improving players. The mood around the club is slowly improving and the squad age and wage is going down. It’s slow but I think it’ll be worth it in the end.
 

tenpoless

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He's hit the ceiling and we're barely the 2nd best team in PL. He did a fine job with what he's got, including his own experience. But he has probably peaked as United manager. I will always remember Tahith Chong tackling Di Maria.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Anyone thinking they are clever when they want us to sign the next hot thing from Germany because it could be the next Klopp either severely underestimate Klopp's achievements or don't understand that winning major trophies back to back(or even once for that matter) is wildly different from taking a midtable team to top 4(for instance).

Hipster managers are a shot in the dark and proven winners(Pep, Klopp and Mourinho) are rare. Since we sacked Mourinho, are there any proven winners left that we could realistically get? There's a reason for why more and more top teams are willing to try fairly unproven managers instead of hipsters/miracle workers. There is absolutely no guarantee that these hipsters will work because winning titles is very different from making a team of nobodies overperform. They are completely different jobs. The personality of the manager probably matters more than you think.
I guess Ole has a better chance of being the next Klopp since he relegated Cardiff and won the Norwegian cup 7 years ago

I agree though that there are hardly any proven winners we could get that also suits our style. Ole doesn't deserve a sack right now but let's say we start underperforming and Ole was to be sacked who do you think we should get? Nagelsmann Hassenhutl Giggs or Neville?
 

OleBoiii

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I agree though that there are hardly any proven winners we could get that also suits our style. Ole doesn't deserve a sack right now but let's say we start underperforming and Ole was to be sacked who do you think we should get? Nagelsmann Hassenhutl Giggs or Neville?
I have absolutely no idea. Given that the proven winners are unable or have been sacked already, I'd leave that decision to the professionals. There must be a reason for why it's become more common to go with fairly unproven options. We don't know what happens in the background.

In other words: should that day come, then I'm not gonna be vocal about who we choose, as I'd just be guessing anyways.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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I have absolutely no idea. Given that the proven winners are unable or have been sacked already, I'd leave that decision to the professionals. There must be a reason for why it's become more common to go with fairly unproven options. We don't know what happens in the background.

In other words: should that day come, then I'm not gonna be vocal about who we choose, as I'd just be guessing anyways.
Fair enough then
 

Amerifan

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We really should use the search function. There are a hundred threads on this topic already and no amount of discussion will convince anyone to change their opinions.
 

tomaldinho1

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You can't build a sturdy construction with shit materials, though. Some fans criticize Ole for relying on Bruno, while simultaneously forgetting that Klopp have 5(!) players of Bruno's caliber. 1 of is "homegrown"(TAA). 1 wasn't Klopp's signing(Salah). 2 were transfer records in their position and the best available on the market(VDD and Alisson). 1 was very likely second choice(Mane) and turned out to be way better than anyone would expect. It's a stroke of luck more than a case of brilliant scouting.
1) Why penalise a coach for developing a home grown player? Rodgers gave TAA his debut but that was 5 years ago. Would be like opposition fans in a few years saying Ole should not any credit for Greenwood's development, it's unfair.
2) Klopp signed Salah
3) This one is correct - Maguire then surpassed VVD.
4) Why penalise a coach for developing a player? LVG wanted Mane as well, his raw potential was obvious. If anything he should get extra credit for developing players like Mane, Wijnaldum, TAA, Robertson etc. Because that really is the hallmark of a good coach, not having to rely on massive, expensive signings in every position.