Do you think that Messi could become an Iniesta-like player in the future, changing his style again to accomodate an even greater loss of pure agility and pace in the future?
Do you think that Messi could become an Iniesta-like player in the future?
- Thread starter matbezlima
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He easily could if he wanted to.
He already is plus so much more.
He’s already spent his entire career better at being Iniesta than Andres Iniesta is.
He doesn't seem to be losing any of his pace, and he's already at the age at which Iniesta started declining anyway. I think he'll be like he is until he retires and his output slows down.
Messi is just Messi.
I think people underestimate how much energy Xavi and Iniesta brought to each game. Current Messi runs less than any other footballer I have seen so I think it would be hard for him to replicate what Iniesta was doing in midfield.
Peak Messi under Pep and Tito was no slouch energy wise
I agree but it feels like current Messi walks through games which is a testament to how good he is.
I’d disagree with that Messi wasn’t even in match’s 10-15 mins at a time under Pep then came up with some magic and got a goal.. Xavi and Iniesta would play with the ball all the time.
Messi won't change.
He's already got the vision and passing ability and I doubt he'll lose his agility even if peak acceleration goes. Could see him playing til his 40's if he wanted to.
He's already got the vision and passing ability and I doubt he'll lose his agility even if peak acceleration goes. Could see him playing til his 40's if he wanted to.
I guess it's a case of why expend more energy than you need to.
He can play as an AM until at least 37. He has such an understanding and wisdom of the game. He's the only player I'm surprised when he makes a mistake
Eh, just because you're not sprinting or actively running around doesn't mean you're not moving. Watching Messi floats around constantly, and when they have the ball or make decisive movements such as a sprint or run, it's usually in a very threatening way such as dribble towards goal, the endline, trying to make an angle or space for a pass/shot, etc.
No need to run just to run. He's smart enough to know when to close down, when/where to go into space, and when to walk or jog into space while conserving energy.
Inesta had an immense engine and workrate. Two things Messi doesn't.
He wasn't as involved in the general game as Xavi and Iniesta was, but he was absolutely mobile. Dropping deep into midfield to receive the ball, playing on either wing... There's been a noticeable decline in mobility even from that nowadays but I don't think you see much drop rate if for some reason Iniesta was unavailable, and you asked Messi to forget about goalscoring and focus on replicating what Iniesta did.
He's gotten worse in recent years I absolutely agree.
Do you mean remain the same player just without the productivity? Sure.
So time for Messi to score a world cup final winner?
Iniesta is a bit shafted regarding stats... He was extremely vital on the pitch but usually provided the assist to the assist or had a key dribble that freed up 3 players in front of him.
He'd have a huge VORP in the NBA because us Yanks quantify everything
This. Messi to become a Iniesta kind of player seems to me would have to run like twice as much each game. When messi isn't attacking he just walks around saving much stamina through the game. Does anybody knows where to find statistics about total distance coveree per game?
Edit: cool article about messi walking better than others running
here
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Messi isn't going to be a pure midfield player at elite level at this point. Barcelona rely on him too much for him to waste his energy, shorten his career and risk injury by having him press and watercarry in the middle third off the ball. His productivity is too valuable so it doesn't make any sense to take him further away from the goal.
If Barcelona had three attackers somehow better than Messi when he was coming through, I'm sure Messi would have played Iniesta's position and have been the world's greatest midfielder - he is better than Iniesta in all the aspects in which Iniesta excelled, is better at dispossessing players as well as being a superior athlete. The only thing that would hold him back possibly is his injury proneness when he was young - he suffered muscle injuries early in his career due to his intense playing style so Pep instructed him to reserve his energy off the ball and to press sparingly. If he was running as much as Iniesta did throughout his career he may have been regularly on the treatment table and I suspect would have been in sharper decline than he currently is
His current position and style of play is essentially a more direct and dynamic Iniesta when his team are on the ball but with the luxury of wandering around when his team isn't in possession anyway.
If Barcelona had three attackers somehow better than Messi when he was coming through, I'm sure Messi would have played Iniesta's position and have been the world's greatest midfielder - he is better than Iniesta in all the aspects in which Iniesta excelled, is better at dispossessing players as well as being a superior athlete. The only thing that would hold him back possibly is his injury proneness when he was young - he suffered muscle injuries early in his career due to his intense playing style so Pep instructed him to reserve his energy off the ball and to press sparingly. If he was running as much as Iniesta did throughout his career he may have been regularly on the treatment table and I suspect would have been in sharper decline than he currently is
His current position and style of play is essentially a more direct and dynamic Iniesta when his team are on the ball but with the luxury of wandering around when his team isn't in possession anyway.
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He's the most creative player I've ever seen, so yes, he can. Even when his fitness levels and speed go, put him around two other hard working midfielders and he'll create chances for attackers in front of him all day long.
Isn't he playing the Iniesta role for Argentina?
Usually.
At Barca, only once they have other settled reliable forwards to bring in goals consistently. Else, can't see him moving deeper.
Usually.
At Barca, only once they have other settled reliable forwards to bring in goals consistently. Else, can't see him moving deeper.
Iniesta buzzed around the pitch hassling players and putting in leg work too.
As some have said Messi is just Messi. He does none of the leg work and rightly so. We’ve seen his form fall off slightly this season no doubt but he is still the best in the world by a large margin when he’s on the ball.
The problem is Barcelona have to completely build the team around his lack of movement off the ball. They defend with a man less which I feel harms them in bigger games personally. Especially if you stuck him in midfield were Iniesta played.
As some have said Messi is just Messi. He does none of the leg work and rightly so. We’ve seen his form fall off slightly this season no doubt but he is still the best in the world by a large margin when he’s on the ball.
The problem is Barcelona have to completely build the team around his lack of movement off the ball. They defend with a man less which I feel harms them in bigger games personally. Especially if you stuck him in midfield were Iniesta played.
Hey definitely does, but it's an energy conservation tactic. It's how he can still produce those short bursts of speed at 33. Same thing Ronaldo does.
I guess the question really is whether his short surges of brilliance that help him win matches on his own compensates for the fact that other players cover his lack of running. Like as brilliant as he obviously is, would he fit in with Klopp or Guardiola's high energy systems?
A friend of mine went to a game at the Nou Camp last year and he said Messi stood, or walked about for the vast majority of the game but every single time he ran or got on the ball, he was effective.
He said he'd never seen anything like it. He was totally uninvolved for 80+ minutes but the 5 minutes or so he played ball would fill a highlights reel.
He said he'd never seen anything like it. He was totally uninvolved for 80+ minutes but the 5 minutes or so he played ball would fill a highlights reel.
can you post this on Reddit?
Bingo.
As great as Iniesta, Messi can do nearly everything he could and then miles more. He doesn't really need to adapt much IMO other than minor tweaks here and there. I think he'll continue to be a similar player maybe with a shift more towards midfield /number 10 than the complete attacker he is, but eventually he wont have the engine and then it doesn't matter what you want to be really, and you have to drop down a level in terms of where you're playing.
True. But that's something he changed over time. 5 years (or more) back he definitely used to buzz around the pitch making recoveries. Somewhere down the line he decided to shift his focus and conserve energy wherever he could.
No because he would need to score less goals. I think he'll keep scoring 40-50 goals per season.
It's true, similarly how Hazard at Chelsea would "cheat" on the LW and do pretty much no tracking back and have full stamina ready to counter attack.
When Mourinho went back to Chelsea he made him become a workhorse and his output massively suffered for it.
In England we have this obsession of making the creatives players more rounded for some reason instead of just sticking to what they're good at and revolving workhorses around them.
Messi is the master at it.
He would have to run a lot more of playing in a midfield. I don’t know, it would mean a real change of shape. The eventual phasing out of Messi at Barca will be fascinating because he will always be able to turn a game but gradually offer less in athleticism terms. Makes me sad to think about it frankly, he already isn’t the player he was yet is still the best in the world, it is madness, pure madness.
I posted in the Daily Discussion a few days ago
I get what your saying. When his explosiveness goes and he can no longer go past players at will, yes I think he can play deeper akin to what Iniesta played in his pomp for Barca.
Think Messi has the tools to play at the top level for another decade to be honest.
Think Messi has the tools to play at the top level for another decade to be honest.
I read recently that Messi had the lowest amount of movement on the pitch out of all the outfield players in Europe's top flight leagues over the last few years. Obviously when he does run he is incredible effective, but his movement is certainly less than everyone else.
I know Messi is a better player but this debate is similar to the Rooney debate.
I think Rooney was a class player but he wasn't a good midfielder he was average at best in that role. Messi is obviously a better player but he's played out his career as an attacking player he won't have the game knowledge to switch positions and be the same player in that new role.
I think Rooney was a class player but he wasn't a good midfielder he was average at best in that role. Messi is obviously a better player but he's played out his career as an attacking player he won't have the game knowledge to switch positions and be the same player in that new role.
He is Iniesta+Xavi+Suarez for Barcelona right now.
Rooney was shot by the time he was tried in midfield - he was forced there simply because he wasn't good enough in attack.
Plus for every Rooney, there are examples like Pirlo, Giggs and Lahm who adapt fine and none of them have midfield qualities that Messi has.
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He will be like Pirlo in his last few years, where he would stand still in midfield and you can jog past him and he wouldn't put in a tackle 
But once on the ball everyone would make runs and he would pick them out like a quarterback.
But once on the ball everyone would make runs and he would pick them out like a quarterback.
Yeah I agree with that. It’s gonna be sad when he hangs up his boots.
The goal against Getafe from 2007 we’ll probs never see the likes of again from him but he’s improved other aspects of his game to compensate for his diminishing physical abilities.
He’s got to be one of the top 3-4 players people will ever see in this century truth be told. Whoever is better than him. Fair play.