Do you think that Messi could become an Iniesta-like player in the future?

kouroux

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I know Messi is a better player but this debate is similar to the Rooney debate.

I think Rooney was a class player but he wasn't a good midfielder he was average at best in that role. Messi is obviously a better player but he's played out his career as an attacking player he won't have the game knowledge to switch positions and be the same player in that new role.
Exactly this. There is more to midfield play than running with the ball and passing between the lines. He would need to be positionally sound during defensive phases and run much more than he would usually. Saying Messi would like Iniesta is too simplistic, specially at his age.
 

RooneyLegend

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No chance, the man is a bomb scare in midfield when its under pressure. His problem is he thinks he can dribble out of any situation all the time.
 

Gio

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He'd have to start running off the ball again which isn't an easy switch to flick on in your mid-30s. His current position requires less running than being part of a midfield trio like Iniesta was, although I could envisage more of a Valeron/Riquelme style 10 gig for him as well as his current inside-right pocket.
 

SteveW

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Hes the best passer in the world. Could easily play until 40 in a Scholes/Pirlo role.
 

Ishdalar

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Exactly this. There is more to midfield play than running with the ball and passing between the lines. He would need to be positionally sound during defensive phases and run much more than he would usually. Saying Messi would like Iniesta is too simplistic, specially at his age.
An aspect of his game that every manager or player that was on his team have said he's the best in the world at, being where he needs to be in every action, that's how even if he walks 99% of the time without the ball, he still does some runs and tackles when he thinks he has a good choice of winning back the ball, he played for years on a high pressing team so I doubt his positioning sense requires a lot of tuning to work as a MC in our 433, in order to run that much he'd probably have to change his whole training towards stamina and not quickless, we don't know if his body would handle the change, but nothing seems to say otherwise.

Messi and Iniesta's playstyle was kind of similar when they were young, Iniesta was also used as a winger/false winger on the left, in the end Messi having a great shot and speed gravitated him towards being a striker to exploit those weapons, Iniesta, who lacked pace (not explosiveness), had a mediocre shot and not much of a scoring sense, ended up being a midfielder.
 

CosmoKramer

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As much as I'm a fan of his, he can't do what Iniesta did in terms of running without the ball. It's true that in the final third of the pitch Messi has always been a much, much better version of peak Iniesta, still is, but people often underestimate the defensive work Andres put forward day in day out when it comes to pressing and helping out the defense on counters.

Another aspect that Messi doesn't have is patience in the build up, he is too direct and his natural instincts would have to be curbed to be able to play in midfield. While not exactly Xavi in terms of circulating the ball, Iniesta shared some of the metronomic traits his partner had. He always passed and moved, passed and moved, without fail which required stamina and patience. Messi would turn towards the goal at the first chance he has, risking losing the ball in a dangerous position. It's not even all about quality, it's also about a mindset that Messi simply doesn't have and won't have it ever imo.

All in all, Iniesta is one of the best midfielders of all time for a reason and no other players aside other legendary midfielders would be able to do what he did.
 

MalcolmTucker

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Another aspect that Messi doesn't have is patience in the build up, he is too direct and his natural instincts would have to be curbed to be able to play in midfield. While not exactly Xavi in terms of circulating the ball, Iniesta shared some of the metronomic traits his partner had. He always passed and moved, passed and moved, without fail which required stamina and patience. Messi would turn towards the goal at the first chance he has, risking losing the ball in a dangerous position. It's not even all about quality, it's also about a mindset that Messi simply doesn't have and won't have it ever imo.

All in all, Iniesta is one of the best midfielders of all time for a reason and no other players aside other legendary midfielders would be able to do what he did.
Metronomic passing is so overrated as a concept among pretentious football fans. Recycling the ball is of course useful but it's far more effective to pass the ball forward between the lines accurately. Messi has probably the highest footballing IQ and technical skill that has ever graced the game and pretty much makes the correct decision 99% of the time when he has the ball.

If Barcelona played with a functioning attack there is no doubt Messi would be the best midfielder in the world, at least on the ball. I agree with the argument that if he produced the same defensive workload off the ball that he does currently, then he wouldn't be an effective midfielder for an elite team, but it's madness to think he would be some impatient hollywood passer trying through balls every time he gets it. He doesn't even do that now and he IS the primary (and sometimes only) catalyst in a disfunctional Barca team - he still recycles the ball and slows play down when it is necessary.

If the likes of Lahm, Schweinstieger and Pirlo can transition into world class midfielders, then Messi certainly could.
 

rcoobc

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I read recently that Messi had the lowest amount of movement on the pitch out of all the outfield players in Europe's top flight leagues over the last few years. Obviously when he does run he is incredible effective, but his movement is certainly less than everyone else.
Deliberately so.
 

kouroux

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An aspect of his game that every manager or player that was on his team have said he's the best in the world at, being where he needs to be in every action, that's how even if he walks 99% of the time without the ball, he still does some runs and tackles when he thinks he has a good choice of winning back the ball, he played for years on a high pressing team so I doubt his positioning sense requires a lot of tuning to work as a MC in our 433, in order to run that much he'd probably have to change his whole training towards stamina and not quickless, we don't know if his body would handle the change, but nothing seems to say otherwise.

Messi and Iniesta's playstyle was kind of similar when they were young, Iniesta was also used as a winger/false winger on the left, in the end Messi having a great shot and speed gravitated him towards being a striker to exploit those weapons, Iniesta, who lacked pace (not explosiveness), had a mediocre shot and not much of a scoring sense, ended up being a midfielder.
I'm sorry but what they said is almost irrelevant when it comes to that, it's Messi, they're never gonna address his rare shortcomings. Making tackles as an attacker, pressing from the front and being a midfielder who has real defensive duties have little in common. There is no way Messi would have the legs and stamina to run and press like Iniesta used to do at this stage of his career. The Messi you're refering to is the younger one, this one is very much different even if he's the best player in the world.

Metronomic passing is so overrated as a concept among pretentious football fans. Recycling the ball is of course useful but it's far more effective to pass the ball forward between the lines accurately. Messi has probably the highest footballing IQ and technical skill that has ever graced the game and pretty much makes the correct decision 99% of the time when he has the ball.

If Barcelona played with a functioning attack there is no doubt Messi would be the best midfielder in the world, at least on the ball. I agree with the argument that if he produced the same defensive workload off the ball that he does currently, then he wouldn't be an effective midfielder for an elite team, but it's madness to think he would be some impatient hollywood passer trying through balls every time he gets it. He doesn't even do that now and he IS the primary (and sometimes only) catalyst in a disfunctional Barca team - he still recycles the ball and slows play down when it is necessary.

If the likes of Lahm, Schweinstieger and Pirlo can transition into world class midfielders, then Messi certainly could.
The thing is, the way the thread is formulated, we're talking about the current "lazy" Messi turning into a CM at his age. A lot of the different posts are about him as his best fitness wise, that's not what the OP was talking about
 
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MalcolmTucker

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The thing is, the way the thread is formulated, we're talking about the current "lazy" Messi turning into a CM at his age. A lot of the different posts are about him as his best fitness wise, that's not what the OP was talking about
Not sure what your point is? I was specifically talking to the guy who was claiming Messi would be incapable of performing the midfield role on the ball to the level of Iniesta which I disagree with. Even so, Messi probably could do as much running as a 32 year old Iniesta at this point of his career, but he wouldn't be able to play as much and would have to be subbed as Iniesta was towards the end of his Barca career. His walking is clearly a deliberate choice between manager and Messi, to maximise his dynamism on the ball and so he doesn't miss any games as he's too important.

However, I don't see there being any chance of Messi playing in midfield - he's going to play the role he plays now up until he retires imo.
 

BigDunc9

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Not sure what your point is? I was specifically talking to the guy who was claiming Messi would be incapable of performing the midfield role on the ball to the level of Iniesta which I disagree with. Even so, Messi probably could do as much running as a 32 year old Iniesta at this point of his career, but he wouldn't be able to play as much and would have to be subbed as Iniesta was towards the end of his Barca career. His walking is clearly a deliberate choice between manager and Messi, to maximise his dynamism on the ball and so he doesn't miss any games as he's too important.

However, I don't see there being any chance of Messi playing in midfield - he's going to play the role he plays now up until he retires imo.
It could be argued though that Messi not being able to play a high press game has resulted in Barca being suspect to throw away big leads in tough away games. I think it has been proved over the years that the rest of the team is not good enough to 'defend' with a man down and being able to press their opponents the way some other teams are capable of would offer the required protection the defence needs.

I personally would take Messi from 2011 just for how energetic he was compared to the version of the past few years even though this current version is much more mature in his all round game.
 

Cloud7

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Yeah I agree with that. It’s gonna be sad when he hangs up his boots.

The goal against Getafe from 2007 we’ll probs never see the likes of again from him but he’s improved other aspects of his game to compensate for his diminishing physical abilities.

He’s got to be one of the top 3-4 players people will ever see in this century truth be told. Whoever is better than him. Fair play.
I'm too young to have seen Maradona and those lads, but I am truly grateful that I was able to watch the career of Messi. I don't think I'll ever see anything like this in my lifetime again.
 

adexkola

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It could be argued though that Messi not being able to play a high press game has resulted in Barca being suspect to throw away big leads in tough away games. I think it has been proved over the years that the rest of the team is not good enough to 'defend' with a man down and being able to press their opponents the way some other teams are capable of would offer the required protection the defence needs.

I personally would take Messi from 2011 just for how energetic he was compared to the version of the past few years even though this current version is much more mature in his all round game.
This is a huge reach.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Messi doesn't have the legs anymore to play the top level in a deeper position in midfield. The only way he could possibly do so would be maybe DM if you had Gattuso-like protection for Pirlo from at least one centre-mid, but Barca don't like to play battlers in midfield. And also it would be stupid to put Messi there when you have Frenkie De Jong who is better there anyway and knows how to play the position. Messi is a great passer but there's more to playing in midfield than that in the modern game. Someone like Liverpool's midfield would run him over if he was deeper. Messi has always been great at spotting gaps and holes to exploit and he does that best from an advanced position.
 

RedRonaldo

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People always say Ronaldo going to last longer than Messi, but I'd think Messi would last just as long, if not longer.

You can see how consistent he was over past 10-15 years, the way he took good care of himself over the years was very notable.

The way he plays his football - covering so little distance on the pitch yet always delivers, would means any stamina decline wouldn't be a big issue for him.

He will definitely loss more pace and explosiveness as he ages though, and his no. of running/dribbling past players will decline too because of his declining pace, but he will still be very good at playmaking, ball control and finishing. I reckon he can still play at highest level when he is approaching his mid and late 30's.

But can he switch to midfield and play near as good as Iniesta? Not a chance!

Look, its one thing playing a "part-time" free role in midfield involving in buildup, playmaking and creating and all that at his will, its another thing to actually taking up all the responsiblities required in midfield, taking up right positions, chasing up and down, helping out teammates in the attack and defend, circulating possession, winning back possession, not losing your position and shapes of your team, keep moving around and sharing the defensive responsibility too. Messi, doesn't have enough of these traits to make him successful in full time midfield role. Its just like playing Rooney in midfield, or Alan Smith in midfield, or even worst. Don't get me wrong, he is definitely GOAT as attacker, or no.10, or playmaking wing forward, but he is not a superhuman type of footballer who can play every position equally well. He never was.

For example, Cantona looks more like a proper midfielder than Messi ever was (more aggression, more influential, lot tougher, great vision and passing, always drop back in midfield creating stuffs too, and very good at flying tackle in kung-fu style!), but I doubt very much he would be success in midfield too.
 
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kouroux

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Not sure what your point is? I was specifically talking to the guy who was claiming Messi would be incapable of performing the midfield role on the ball to the level of Iniesta which I disagree with. Even so, Messi probably could do as much running as a 32 year old Iniesta at this point of his career, but he wouldn't be able to play as much and would have to be subbed as Iniesta was towards the end of his Barca career. His walking is clearly a deliberate choice between manager and Messi, to maximise his dynamism on the ball and so he doesn't miss any games as he's too important.

However, I don't see there being any chance of Messi playing in midfield - he's going to play the role he plays now up until he retires imo.
The point is easy, Messi at this point in this time, would never work as well as Iniesta did as a CM (when attacking he easily would but his deficiencies on the other hand, at a much weaker Barca than before would be way too obvious).

People always say Ronaldo going to last longer than Messi, but I'd think Messi would last just as long, if not longer.

You can see how consistent he was over past 10-15 years, the way he took good care of himself over the years was very notable.

The way he plays his football - covering so little distance on the pitch yet always delivers, would means any stamina decline wouldn't be a big issue for him.

He will definitely loss more pace and explosiveness as he ages though, and his no. of running/dribbling past players will decline too because of his declining pace, but he will still be very good at playmaking, ball control and finishing. I reckon he can still play at highest level when he is approaching his mid and late 30's.

But can he switch to midfield and play near as good as Iniesta? Not a chance!

Look, its one thing playing a "part-time" free role in midfield involving in buildup, playmaking and creating and all that at his will, its another thing to actually taking up all the responsiblities required in midfield, taking up right positions, chasing up and down, helping out teammates in the attack and defend, circulating possession, winning back possession, not losing your position and shapes of your team, keep moving around and sharing the defensive responsibility too. Messi, doesn't have enough of these traits to make him successful in full time midfield role. Its just like playing Rooney in midfield, or Alan Smith in midfield, or even worst. Don't get me wrong, he is definitely GOAT as attacker, or no.10, or playmaking wing forward, but he is not a superhuman type of footballer who can play every position equally well. He never was.


For example, Cantona looks more like a proper midfielder than Messi ever was (more aggression, more influential, lot tougher, great vision and passing, always drop back in midfield creating stuffs too, and very good at flying tackle in kung-fu style!), but I doubt very much he would be success in midfield too.
Thank you, you explained it very well. It could be argued that the younger and more energetic Messi would have been able to but definitely not the current one.
 

simonhch

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This. Messi to become a Iniesta kind of player seems to me would have to run like twice as much each game. When messi isn't attacking he just walks around saving much stamina through the game. Does anybody knows where to find statistics about total distance coveree per game?

Edit: cool article about messi walking better than others running

here
Good article, thanks.
 

Morty_

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Nah, as has been said, he doesnt run enough to really be a midfielder, workrate is very important in that area of the pitch.