Yeah. I'm less concerned with his ability to motivate than I am his ability to coach these (or any) players up enough to compete with Guardiola, Klopp, Poch, etc.
Do you think that Ole can motivate players to play to their potential?
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Everyone has intrinsic leadership skill that comes with a range that allows for improvement. However, there are caps to how much you can improve.
My guess is Ole is probably better suited to be an assistant coach because he’s a player friendly manager that players can relate to who can make players feel good, but he may not be enough of a disciplinarian or put the fear in god into players to get them motivated.
Doesn’t make me think any less of him. It’s simply who he is.
The top managers across sport tend to be a bit prickly and arrogant.
I think this is a really excellent and insightful point.
Over the years there have been many coaches that have been much more effective number twos than number ones. Look at Mike Phelan and Brian Kidd as examples. Time will tell whether it will be the same for Ole, but your point is very well made.
I think Ole will motivate the players that do love the club or respect its history, local lads and the likes. Although I think that his "buddy" approach and his nostalgic appeal might have a negative effect on players who are less interested in the well being of the club and only play for themselves. Then again what do I know, we will see around December I guess.
I dont expect him to hit the ground running and win the league or cl. But 6mths and having some sort of clear plan on how he wants to play, stability in pts meaning yes there will be fluke loss here and there but going 15 straight win and 12 straight lose is a big question mark, improvement in player performance to show that he has some input and changing stuff.
Point is he's 8 mths managing us and we barely seen any changes from the lackluster performance that got jose sacked.
Again I'm not saying he has to won something which is absurd from his starting point, but enough for us to have some confidence instead of "he'll come good, i dont know how but he will"
What have spurs done that is anywhere near what fergie faced with peak Arsenal, jose's Chelsea and City?
Reminds me of saf jose.
Off course manager got it wrong times and times again. But good player doesnt need to hear that, and good manager wont be shy to admit it behind the screen.
I dont think it's pure narcissism but when you won as much as him you develop that kind of ego and rightly so. Those that choose not to listen to him arent proving that he's wrong at the end of the day.
You might have a point if you're ronaldo or ramos but when you're a 20 years old youngster who won shits you better listen to the manager
Worryingly I remember Craig Bellamy pouring piss on the transfer business Ole did at Cardiff, when he first took over at United. Shit transfer business and poor motivational skills do not a great manager make.
He has for 14 or so games last season, then wheels fell, off why?
He needs to be more nastier he's a bit to nice, otherwise some of theses players will throw him under the bus.
He needs to be more nastier he's a bit to nice, otherwise some of theses players will throw him under the bus.
The problem is that airing a player/players out in public is not something that top managers do for the simple reason is that it becomes toxic.
No doubt players were screwing up but you handle that in-house.
The public doesn’t need to know and by taking responsibility the manager sends the message to the public we screwed up and we will fix it.
The manager then uses the best tactics to manipulate more discipline and tactics without resorting to embarrassing players in public.
You don’t build loyalty by publicly embarrassing players. You build loyalty by building trust and respect.
When someone dogs it the other players will respect you more if you take responsibility in public and then punish that party in private.
The players know who is giving full effort and who is downing tools. If it is the whole team then you bench them all and play players who aren’t as good but who will give full effort. Or you bench the captain.
As a coach you want the players to make other players accountable.
You think that Pep or Klopp have to worry about accountability? Not a chance. Kompany, KDB, etc hold the other players accountable and they will get their teammates in line because people respect them. The same is the case at Liverpool Henderson, VVD, etc do the sane thing.
That’s why you don’t hear them throw players under the bus in public. They handle it in house and leave it to the team leaders to get everyone in line.
Yes! Good point.
Made me think about who in the United dressing room might perform the same 'policing' role? Ashely Young perhaps? But he is so visibly part of the problem, would any player at the club take anything that he says seriously? Pogba clearly has social influence, but he doesn't strike me as a leader in the dressing room. There just isn't a Keane, Schmeichel, Ferdinand or Neville type character, that would keep players in check and remind them what club they are playing for.
I think a little bit too much is being made of the slump at the end of the season just as his supporters oversold the early success that he had. In half a season the bottom line is he had us 3rd behind Man City and Liverpool which tells me he has some good qualities to work with but he also has some lessons to learn to kick on to the next level.
Specifically around motivation I think the last two months can be misleading. Ole was fairly honest in his assessments of our poor performances and I cannot disagree with his statements that the physical conditioning of the team was not good enough. In his early games we played with much more of a high press and the players were putting in a shift but it was obvious by March that we were losing players to injury because their fitness was poor and in too many games our players, particularly our forwards, looked gassed after 15 minutes. I am not sure any kind of motivational skills or mental tricks could overcome the fact that the players were not as fit as their opponents.
The early kick off to pre-season is in part to work on conditioning along with install specific systems of play and this has been supported by the players being given diet and training plans to follow before returning to work. I anticipate a much better prepared team next season and then we will see what Ole is made of in terms of tactics and motivational skills.
Specifically around motivation I think the last two months can be misleading. Ole was fairly honest in his assessments of our poor performances and I cannot disagree with his statements that the physical conditioning of the team was not good enough. In his early games we played with much more of a high press and the players were putting in a shift but it was obvious by March that we were losing players to injury because their fitness was poor and in too many games our players, particularly our forwards, looked gassed after 15 minutes. I am not sure any kind of motivational skills or mental tricks could overcome the fact that the players were not as fit as their opponents.
The early kick off to pre-season is in part to work on conditioning along with install specific systems of play and this has been supported by the players being given diet and training plans to follow before returning to work. I anticipate a much better prepared team next season and then we will see what Ole is made of in terms of tactics and motivational skills.
I’m starting to feel like he’s going to have to get rid of a few big personalities and mould the team in his own image. He’s not going to get that time here though is he? If we start next season the way we finished this he’ll be gone
Why would they do that? Ole has won more major honours than the entire squad combined have as a player. They shouldn't have those expectations of a young manager. What has Pochettino won?
LVG / Moyes / Ole was doing all that. Any good?
Zidane hasn't 'hit the ground running' since going back to Real, maybe coincidently he now doesn't have Ronaldo and the other players are a year older.
We will see in August if the players are motivated. If we don't pick up atleast 10 points from our opening 4 games then he will fail because that momentum will transcend into further games in the season.
I look at the likes of Rashford, Lingard, Martial and they don't seem half bothered about the results of last season. The players at this club are beyond an embarrassment, they acclaim that they are of the calibre to play champions league football but don't seem to take responsibility when it's there own fault we finished outside the top 4.
It won't entirely be Solskjaer to blame if we cannot get going, it's essentially the players influence included that's why we need a ruthless manager to come in with a philosophy to make changes.
Would Poch, Zidane or Pep come in and given the likes of Jones, Young, Mata new deals ? We need to cull the players but bring in a coach who will take us forward. Contrary to beliefs the only ideal candidate for the job to bring us into contention of challenging with the credentials and pedigree is Poch.
I look at the likes of Rashford, Lingard, Martial and they don't seem half bothered about the results of last season. The players at this club are beyond an embarrassment, they acclaim that they are of the calibre to play champions league football but don't seem to take responsibility when it's there own fault we finished outside the top 4.
It won't entirely be Solskjaer to blame if we cannot get going, it's essentially the players influence included that's why we need a ruthless manager to come in with a philosophy to make changes.
Would Poch, Zidane or Pep come in and given the likes of Jones, Young, Mata new deals ? We need to cull the players but bring in a coach who will take us forward. Contrary to beliefs the only ideal candidate for the job to bring us into contention of challenging with the credentials and pedigree is Poch.
It’s only a part of a manager’s role. They still have to make sound tactical decisions and have play styles that work with the personnel they have and then acquire the players that best fit the play style rather than the best player or biggest names.
I think you can take a big positive from the run we went on for 3 months, I think during that period we were the form team in the league, given what he had to work with, some players we all know are not good enough, weak mentally and just not focused or committed enough when faced with any type of adversity. IMHO how things started to go so poorly was a combination of things, OLE had them at it like madmen with effort and attacking, it was great, but then the injuries started happening and he acknowledged it was because of our high intensity, but we had to do it, we were so far behind and it put us in a position to get top 4, soon after with the realisation that the CL was about to kick back in and we would have 2 must win games a week there was defo a shift in approach, less intense, more conservative as the players just could not do it. The next issues were with our 2 best players, DDG started having a mare, contract related I don't know, but where he was previously winning games on his own, he was losing them for us. Then zidane courts Pogba publicly and he went back to strolling around the place. Then we have adversity, and several other players reverted to type, not up for it going through the motions. He has seen all this and we can only hope that he prepares the team physically pre-season for the intensity of game we want to play throughout a season, that for me is the biggest factor, helps there are no major tournaments on bar the Copa America, it is a transitional season and he will have question marks over some players, he seems to like to create a positive atmosphere for committed players to thrive in, really hope it works out and he can establish that, as he oozes United values and has had an education from the best manager of all time.
No, hence why the club are looking for young hungry players to be guided. It's embarrassing really because as professionals you shouldn't have to rely on a manager for motivation, they should be raring to go it's a short career and a privilege to play the sport on the highest level.
Hate that word!
But that’s the key thing: coaching. Footballers seem to do best and be happiest when they understand what they’re supposed to be doing on the pitch, and feel confident that they can do it. Rousing half-time calls to arms have their place, but aren’t the most important part of modern management.
In Ole’s first few games the players looked like they knew what thy were supposed to be doing. In later ones they didn’t. Let’s hope the former is the true Ole, and the latter an aberration down to fatigue, player contract uncertainty or whatever.
I think he can motivate the younger players. Whether he can influence more established players is another question. Who is a bigger personality and influence in the dressing room, the manager or Pogba for instance?
And then there's questions over his tactical acumen and fitness preparation.
Hopefully he'll prove great on every level, but like others have said, a big ask.
And then there's questions over his tactical acumen and fitness preparation.
Hopefully he'll prove great on every level, but like others have said, a big ask.
Yes.
If he gets rid of the players who are having a negative effect on the team then yes. Needs to kick the lazy ego players.
It's kind of scary that there are people who think that a player who played with Roy Keane for 7-8 years under Sir Alex Ferguson is just a "Nice bloke"
I am 100% certain that any player working with those 2 characters quickly developed a mean streak - when necessary. Just ask Robert Lee!
I am 100% certain that any player working with those 2 characters quickly developed a mean streak - when necessary. Just ask Robert Lee!
Don’t think any one can question his character, motivation or work ethic. He’s the right kind of guy in charge all this BS about him being too nice is nonsense. Any one who saw him play you’d know he had a real tough streak in him he’s a winner. He’s the right guy, right personality and principles. Question marks around his experience and tactical nouse but that’s why phelan is there
Fair points. But, my goodness, if player motivation was only down to a manager's ability to deliver rousing half-time team talks, then we really would be in trouble. At elite level, motivation has to be a 24/7 business as modern and particular elite players, face so many distractions; whether that be money, celebrity, hangers on, the lure of other clubs or media criticism. I don't sense that Pep or Klopp have problems motivating their players. Quite the opposite in fact, players at both clubs genuinely seem to be bothered about their business and inspired to perform. How on earth is Klopp able to get a tune out of a player like Jordan Henderson or rejects like Wijnaldum and Milner? These are average players who have been made to look like world-beaters.
My concern is not that United will not be able to get good talent through the door, in fact I am sure that we will. My concern is that some of those we will bring in will see that you can be a United player, under-perform and be richly rewarded. They will see that United players are more concerned about enhancing their inflated contracts than they are improving their wretched performances. They will see that playing for Manchester United is only really a part-time, job to fund a range of other extra-curricular interests. Ole will have to deliver the performance of his life to motivate players introduced into and nurtured within that environment.
The players that are at Manchester United, or at any other top club, are there because they have been working hard over years to become good enough for a top team. Then running out at Old Trafford, in front of 80 000 fans, knowing you will be a hero if you give the fans something to cheer for, or a scapegoat if you don´t, thinking of your own carrier, your reputation, your standing among the rest of the squad, and the expectations you have put on yourself. Sure you´d need one person next to you - to motivate you?
A wise person ones said a manager cannot motivate his players, he can only demotivated them.
A wise person ones said a manager cannot motivate his players, he can only demotivated them.
I just hope Ole is looking forwards to the future rather than back to the glory days past of Fergie etc.
Those days are past and gone and the game has moved on. The old ways have been superseded and I hope he is wise enough to know it.
Otherwise we may be in for a world of pain and a long time in the wilderness.
Those days are past and gone and the game has moved on. The old ways have been superseded and I hope he is wise enough to know it.
Otherwise we may be in for a world of pain and a long time in the wilderness.
Yeah this is a worry. I don’t want to turn the thread into an Ed/Glazer-bashing-fest, but don’t you think this is less on the manager than the overall culture of the club right now? All the stuff I’ve had exhorting me to renew my membership has pictures of Lingard plastered over it. It’s hardly surprising he thinks he’s a big star when the club’s marketing people treat him as such.
Motivational skills are surely one of the most important qualities as a manager, but there are other aspects that are as important to be a successful manager. The main thing is that players are confident in themselves and that is guaranteed when the club is successful on the pitch. There are coaches that are exceptional motivators (Klopp, Mou in his prime) but you don't necessarily have to have that ability to be a great coach in my opinion.Take Heynckes for instance, he was more like a father-like figure to the players in our treble winning season and we performed well because we adjusted our style to be very similar to Dortmund's (having the much better individuals) and turned out to be the best team that season because of that tweak. I also do not think that Pep is a good motivator, players respect him due to his reputation and how they perform on the pitch. If Ole is somehow able to replicate Klopp's system (which he seems to strive to) and hire as good or even better players that are suited to play that system given your vast financial resources, he won't have to be a great motivator to be successful. I am also pretty sure that players like Martial, Pogba and Rashford would up a level or two if they are playing in a well-functioning system. In fact, I still think your squad is pretty good quality wise, and you might "only" need a few key pieces to lift the other players in the form of a commanding center back (Koulibaly, or maybe even Hummels?), a hard-working physical center forward with half-decent passing ability (Mandzukic or even Vardy?) and some fresh-blood as full back (AWB?) and your squad would be no worse than Liverpool's.
Understand your point but imv using these guys as a benchmark for Ole is setting the bar too high. Ole's not going to turn Dalot into a world class RB as Klopp has done with Robertson for example. If he can develop Rashford like Pep has developed Sterling then that would be an achievement in its own right. If the question is about motivating players then you can throw in other managers. The managers you mention are associated with top clubs and have top players to work with week in week out. At the moment our squad is way off City, Liverpool and Utd under SAF. Even Poch imo has better players to work with than Ole has. In answering your question then I believe Ole has the qualities to motivate the likes of Mctominay, Lingard, Rashford etc, but not the likes of Pogba, Lukaku, Sanchez, Martial etc. We need a more established manager at the helm to achieve that!
Ole will be gone before 2020. This guy failed at cardiff city. Just because he was a legend does not mean he make a great manager. No body not even pep can stop our free fall. It not the Manager it the way the club is run.
Jose knew before the season started he need a new defender but the club refused to get him what he needed. The mess we are in is because of the glazers and there puppet boy Ed.
Unless they sell up we could he heading down the path that we had before sir Alex
Jose knew before the season started he need a new defender but the club refused to get him what he needed. The mess we are in is because of the glazers and there puppet boy Ed.
Unless they sell up we could he heading down the path that we had before sir Alex
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What the players need is coaching, to improve the team and them as an individuals. Inspiration is to win titles and tough games not to play good football. No amount of talent can change us as a team we don't see a proper identity and system being implemented.
I think you make some good points, but as I said before, it is Ole himself who has invoked the name of Sir Alex Ferguson, thereby rightly reminding fans and foes alike what United stand for and the benchmark that he himself will aspire to. You simply cannot have it both ways; one minute reminding all and sundry about the traditions of United under Sir Alex and then the next minute expecting to be judged by a different standard altogether. That makes absolutely no sense to me.
You say that the likes of Pep, Klopp and Pochettino are too high a benchmark against which to compare Ole. What club is it exactly that you think Ole is managing?
United are a bigger club than either of City, Liverpool or Tottenham. Our fan base is bigger, our brand is bigger, our stadium is bigger, our revenues are bigger and overall we have been more successful.
Where, each of the above are better than United is in terms of the quality and commitment level of their players, the performances of their teams and the structure of their clubs. That is where United should aspire to be like them. I think the idea that we would look below the best performing teams in the Premier League to set our aspirations is utterly laughable for a club of the size and with the financial wherewithal of Manchester United.
Equally, I think it is inconceivable that we might spend upwards of £150m in this window and not expect to narrow the gap in both points and performances with City, Liverpool and Tottenham. No, I do not expect us to be in the title picture for some years, but United fans should at least expect to see absolute improvement in the team's performances and results over time.
In summary, of course I expect Ole to motivate the players to perform to their potential and if he cannot do that then United need to find a manager who can. United may be a 'project', but it is not an experiment. We are not testing things out to see if they work, we are backing an approach that we expect to succeed. My belief is that you improve by comparing yourself against the best. Sir Alex set Liverpool as his benchmark and thank goodness he did, because over the years he reached their lofty benchmark and surpassed it. City, Liverpool and Tottenham, are in my view, the best managed clubs in the Premier League. I therefore expect Ole to set his benchmark against them.
Well most of the top players he played with here says he can and will win things here, and they know him better than we do.
He has already said he was amazed at how bad the fitness levels were here, which he will work at this summer. There will be no place to hide if they are not willing to work he said.
We will have to wait and see before we judge him. Getting rid of the deadwood will be his biggest task, but bringing in younger hungry players is the right way to start rebuilding.
He has already said he was amazed at how bad the fitness levels were here, which he will work at this summer. There will be no place to hide if they are not willing to work he said.
We will have to wait and see before we judge him. Getting rid of the deadwood will be his biggest task, but bringing in younger hungry players is the right way to start rebuilding.
I'm not sure if motivation is the correct term, instilling self belief is the key. In football ex players often pretend that they are some sort of super heroes but in other sports hall of famers will often say something that is generally true, it's easy to lose confidence and from that point everything becomes more difficult, Scholes himself mentioned it in an interview not so long ago. With some exceptions professional athletes rarely lack motivation but they can lack self belief and belief in their surrounding, that's when the manager and the institution are key it's their job to maintain both of these things at a high level all the time.
Again I get the gist of what you're putting across and we probably share the same views. Yes we are a bigger club than the ones those top managers you named are managing. Yet in my view there is nothing in Ole's CV that puts him in the same bracket as any of those names you mention. Reading between the lines I would say you really don't believe Ole is the right man for the job.
You just might not be getting him right. If I hired someone and told him I will support you as much as I can but want you to strive to be as good as our last employee or another from a rival firm, which do you think would be a better response from him?
I will strive to be as good and even better.
OR
I don't think I can be that good, that guy is a magician, maybe I should just try to be okay and do my best.
The only way to reach up is to look up, if you look down and around, you might be stuck there for quite a long time. Every day on this forum, we blame Ed, the board and everyone managing the club for not being ambitious but you can tell they are not looking high enough else we would be investing seriously on that team starting from the manager (who I believe shouldn't be there in the first place) but like I said someone is looking at the financials alone and feeling just about right and that my friend is how to look down and stay down. It's what has caused all the awful managerial appointments for the past 6 years. Shambolic, rushed appointments and we might have made another, we'll see but back to the matter, Ole will be and should be compared with those who finished above not below. He has to give something close to what they offer, because there will be no hiding place for him. Hell, Sarri won nothing before taking a stumbling Chelsea to an European cup final and winning it, now he's good enough for Juventus.
To be honest, Ole reminds me of Marouane Fellaini in as much as I supported Fellaini when he was a United player, because he was a United player, but not because I thought he should have been a United player, if that makes sense?
As our manager, I desperately want Ole to succeed. Another management failure, that will set us even further behind City and Liverpool, is the last thing that we need right now. That said, I have some concerns about Ole's capabilities as a motivator of men, hence the thread. Like all United fans I think he did an exceptional job lifting the side from Christmas through to March. It was fairy-tale stuff. But then from April to May, Ole stuttered, at times seemed inept and appeared incapable of coaxing even basic performances from his players. It just seemed as if he could not rouse them.
Clearly, all this will be put to the test again, over the course of next season. I hope I am proved wrong.