Do you think we'll see civil unrest?

Badunk

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Honestly, I think it's on the cards. We have the cost of living crisis, a government awash with inaction and incompetence, the climate is at a tipping point and I don't see anything getting better any time soon. Everything is turning to shit and we've just been told there's no bog roll and the toilet doesn't flush (probably because of Jeremy Corbyn).

I'm from Belfast. Rioting is a given. But what about the rest of the UK? There were riots during Thatcher's reign but have we become too accustomed to thinking that marching with dignity while holding a witty placard will get results? Blair ignored the anti-war marches. The emotional response to Grenfell has dissipated. 200k dead because of Covid and we know that the buffoon in Number 10 didn't react early enough, care homes were infected deliberately, his government's cronies have profited immensely, huge sums were "spaffed up the wall" on faulty PPE and useless track and trace, they partied incessantly and he made decisions based on whether he would be popular rather than what was safest for the population. Now we're being told that energy companies are making record profits while we're all going to be getting bills that are double, triple or quadruple what we paid before.

When is enough enough?
 

VorZakone

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I'm surprised inflation isn't a bigger story. The usual inflation target from central banks is 2%. It's well above that now. It will eat people financially.

And when finances get troubling, it amplifies all other issues in my opinion, thereby making civil unrest more likely.
 
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neverdie

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the era of the ballot or the bullet; reform or revolution. replace every reference malcolm makes to race with class and his speech speaks to where we're at right now.

have we become too accustomed to thinking that marching with dignity while holding a witty placard will get results?
The government has failed us. You can’t deny that. Any time you’re living in the 20th century, 1964, and you walking around here singing “We Shall Overcome,” the government has failed you. This is part of what’s wrong with you, you do too much singing. Today it’s time to stop singing and start swinging.

Once you change your philosophy, you change your thought pattern. Once you change your thought pattern you change your attitude. Once you change your attitude it changes your behavior pattern. And then you go on into some action. As long as you got a sit-down philosophy you’ll have a sit-down thought pattern. And as long as you think that old sit-down thought, you’ll be in some kind of sit-down action. They’ll have you sitting in everywhere. It’s not so good to refer to what you’re going to do as a sit-in. That right there castrates you. Right there it brings you down. What goes with it? What? Think of the image of someone sitting. An old woman can sit. An old man can sit. A chump can sit, a coward can sit, anything can sit. Well, you and I been sitting long enough and it’s time for us today to start doing some standing and some fighting to back that up.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/the-ballot-or-the-bullet-speech-transcript-malcolm-x

look also to the american revolution which led to the french revolution and the british response to that. that british response prefigured fdr's moderate response 130 years later imo. the question hasn't changed.
 

George Owen

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Hopefully not, but we are super close. The "elites" are stretching the gum as much as they can to keep the system going as it is, but just before civilization collapse, I'm pretty sure they will come with stuff like "Universal Basic Income" to keep the place standing.
 

acnumber9

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I’d be amazed if there isn’t rioting and looting come the end of the year. I would also not be surprised if politicians are attacked on the streets.
 

Jericholyte2

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I absolutely hope someone pulls some rabbit out of a hat so it isn’t needed but, also, in another way, hope that there is.

There should have been more after the 2008/9 crash and, because there wasn’t, unfettered greed was allowed to swell further.

If the worst case scenario comes to pass and there isn’t unrest, then I think we’re heading back to Victorian-era serfdom.
 

Flying high

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Hopefully not, but we are super close. The "elites" are stretching the gum as much as they can to keep the system going as it is, but just before civilization collapse, I'm pretty sure they will come with stuff like "Universal Basic Income" to keep the place standing.
Which will then be challenged and removed 20 years later, once enough people have forgotten why it had to be implemented.

And 40% of people will vote for its removal because they heard that a few of the wrong types might be getting it.


We need a revolution! A simple riot isn't enough anymore. These bastards are too deeply entrenched.
 

Moby

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The people who actually care about this are in the minority and generally wouldn't take up violent means. The ones in the majority either couldn't care less or worse are complicit in causing these issues in the first place.

So no.
 

neverdie

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you'll find yourself wrong when people start to feel the financial crash around the corner. energy prices are just the start. remember when people went mental over toilet paper because of covid? multiply that by several factors and you haven't even scratched the surface of how bad this could get if significant reforms are not enacted.
 

NicolaSacco

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the era of the ballot or the bullet; reform or revolution. replace every reference malcolm makes to race with class and his speech speaks to where we're at right now.




https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/the-ballot-or-the-bullet-speech-transcript-malcolm-x

look also to the american revolution which led to the french revolution and the british response to that. that british response prefigured fdr's moderate response 130 years later imo. the question hasn't changed.
Can you explain what you mean by the last paragraph. What was the British response to the French Revolution, and how is that relate to FDR?
 

neverdie

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Can you explain what you mean by the last paragraph. What was the British response to the French Revolution, and how is that relate to FDR?
will respond later, but basically "reform" over "revolution", even though it was revolution and the fear of such which drove reform. the same thing which happened after tsarist russia fell to the bolsheviks in 1917 and defined the labour movements in england and america during that period, leading up to the great depression when fdr enacts the first real vestiges of the welfare state through the new deal. the response of the labour government in 1945 is basically the same thing in different form. england was bankrupt but america was booming, so each took a different path for a while. labour gets elected and you get things like the nhs. that doesn't happen in america.

as to the og quesiton:

Revolutionary England?

Much of the historiographical debate about the impact of the French revolution on Britain has been informed by E P Thompson’s masterly thesis: The Making of the English Working Class. Thompson viewed the 1790s as the crucial period for the formation of working class political consciousness because of the proliferation of popular radical societies and the ideology of Paineite radicalism which legitimised the working class struggle. The so-called ‘panic of property’ in the early 1790s created a sharp break between the objectives and interests of the industrial and commercial classes which hitherto had been united in a common cause for reforming the constitution and which was to continue into the nineteenth century. He also argued that there was continuity - in both ideas and personnel - between the radical movements of the 1790s and the re-emerging parliamentary reform movements of the early 1800s.
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/arts/history/students/modules/archive/hi254/timetable/burke/

a good summary of the debates being had at the time in england over the french question. it's a long and complicated topic but really can be condensed into reform or revolution, which is what malcolm x is saying by the "ballot or the bullet"; that it is possible to a have "a bloodless revolution" via transformational reform.
 

neverdie

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rioting is pointless. there's no coherent aim to it. it's just a release of pent up anger. you can understand it in those terms but you can't justify it when you think about end goal. what do you achieve by it? need to go back to basics. educate, organize, agitate. going straight to the third without the first two achieves nothing.

the campaign headed by lynch and other unions is a good example of how to proceed. they're agitating now because they've already educated and organized. they have coherent demands that a reformist government looking to maintain stability can engage with even if all demands aren't met.
 

Suedesi

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I think there's a decent probability we see some civil unrest within the next 2 yrs in the USA.

Too many armed, entitled, arrogant ignoramuses roaming around.
 

NicolaSacco

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rioting is pointless. there's no coherent aim to it. it's just a release of pent up anger. you can understand it in those terms but you can't justify it when you think about end goal. what do you achieve by it? need to go back to basics. educate, organize, agitate. going straight to the third without the first two achieves nothing.

the campaign headed by lynch and other unions is a good example of how to proceed. they're agitating now because they've already educated and organized. they have coherent demands that a reformist government looking to maintain stability can engage with even if all demands aren't met.
I support their right to strike, and to receive fair pay, despite the fact that it affects me quite heavily. I support the strikes. But I certainly don’t think that people like lynch are somehow more intelligent, educated, organised than other union leaders. What they have is a huge bargaining tool which allows them to really force the govt to negotiate (and often concede) in situations where they otherwise wouldn’t. And the transport workers are well aware of this hence relatively high union membership rates. They have inordinately high leverage compared to almost any other industry, in terms of the disruption they can cause and the the financial repercussions to the govt of their actions. Thatcher stockpiled coal, you can’t stockpile the ability to get people to work every day.
 

neverdie

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I support their right to strike, and to receive fair pay, despite the fact that it affects me quite heavily. I support the strikes. But I certainly don’t think that people like lynch are somehow more intelligent, educated, organised than other union leaders. What they have is a huge bargaining tool which allows them to really force the govt to negotiate (and often concede) in situations where they otherwise wouldn’t. And the transport workers are well aware of this hence relatively high union membership rates. They have inordinately high leverage compared to almost any other industry, in terms of the disruption they can cause and the the financial repercussions to the govt of their actions. Thatcher stockpiled coal, you can’t stockpile the ability to get people to work every day.
i don't disagree with any of that. but union leaders in general tend to be organized because that's their entire purpose. you see a knock on effect too. rmt strikes, then other unions take note. other unions don't have the same leverage but combined they have all the leverage in the world. that's general strike territory which could easily happen.
 

André Dominguez

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Damn. I thought the UK was coping well despite Brexit and the oil crisis (that actually started before the war). I know millions of jobs disappeared with the relocation of some major companies, but wouldn't that bring the living cost down?

Inflation has been terrible in Portugal too (almost at 10%), but so in the rest of the world. And on top of that house prices continue to rise sky high, which for me is the most concerning part. Because products being more expensive means we have to eat cheaper meat cuts and cheaper fish, and reduce on alcoholic drinks.

But home prices means people will not be able to afford either a loan or a rent and have to take risks and move to another location to live.
 

Relevated

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The Britain's public is either way too polite or they become intoxicated every other night.

So there'll be 0 rioting
 

Norman Brownbutter

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I dont see the point in rioting in the streets. Why would wrecking where we live change anything? It would change nothing because those at the top don’t give a single shit about us. As long as we pay our bills and enough of us believe their bullshit.

Id rather see us all come together and do something like boycotting one of the big six. I wonder how many customers it would take jumping ship for them to start trying to compete in the market? After all, they are getting away with this because we never fight back. We just take it. If we started one of those online campaigns, and everyone boycotted EDF for example. They would either have to lower their prices or pull out of the uk. If nothing else it would send a message that the general public aren’t as toothless as we appear. Or maybe we are? I don’t know.
 

marktan

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It would happen if someone led or created something people believed in - i.e. for cheaper energy costs, cheaper housing etc.

The reason a general riot/protest won't happen is because people are in that weird spot between not being uncomfortable enough that life can't function, but also uncomfortable enough that you have to spend most of your hours earning money to get by. That and having basically the equivalent actual power of peasants from 500 years ago means any unrest is pointless. It's no coincidence that most of the large scale protests we've seen recently have been young people led - people who don't have life responsibilities - or day trips out in central London with a mass march that doesn't really do anything.

We need a political party or a person that has good ideas and can lead. The Labour party may get there and has some good ideas but they're a bit who knows at the minute, and the conservatives we know only make things worse but they have the vote of the home owners made rich over the last 30 years through policies like Right to buy, QE etc.
 
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Focusmate

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Agree with the OP sentiment - this government is the worst of all time for me - right wing populists in the Berlusconi mould - everything they do is about chasing tomorrows headlines and total incompetence with real life stuff - but I highly doubt there will be riots. Why?
Wrong timing and wrong people affected.
Will be winter when we really feel the full impact. (Do riots ever happen in the winter here?)
Also unusually in entering a recession, Unemployment is very very low.
The people most/worst affected are families with lots of mouths to feed and rooms to heat. Needing multiple cars for work and school drops etc. they aint going to be out rioting.
Im middle of the road and wrong side of 40 and i really really hate the current lot - but the older generation are very pro Tory still - google maps of the last election by age - its a crazy age divide.
Belfast ones are raised on a bit of recreational rioting no? (And always avoid long sentences?) I remember people getting long sentences for just suggesting a riot on social media in England!!
 

Jippy

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The Britain's public is either way too polite or they become intoxicated every other night.

So there'll be 0 rioting
Exactly, next to zero chance. I can only remember one mass riot - the poll tax one- in my life. A few localised race riots, but nothing ever nationwide.
The English will moan to each other, write a polite letter of complaint to someone, then vote back in the Tories next election regardless.
 

P-Ro

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Don't worry lads. Liz Truss is soon to be at the wheel and it'll be so so so gooooood.
 

Stanley Road

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Rioting by the inflicted is ok, if its just a bunch of yoofs out to break a shop window and steal a TV then that's gash. I'm not sure how the perfect revolt should look.
 

Stanley Road

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Exactly, next to zero chance. I can only remember one mass riot - the poll tax one- in my life. A few localised race riots, but nothing ever nationwide.
The English will moan to each other, write a polite letter of complaint to someone, then vote back in the Tories next election regardless.
While I agree with the anger over poll tax it was wrongly directed, smashing up stuff and throwing things at police solves nothing.
 

11101

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I can see it this winter.

Nobody has done anything so far because despite the doomsayers, life for the vast majority isn’t all that bad. People for the most part still have their TVs on, smartphones charged and change for a few pints on the weekend.

The potential energy bills this winter will for the first time in decades put large numbers of people in a position where they genuinely can't afford to live.
 

VeevaVee

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If it’s organised and targeted I’m for it. They get away with too much and it’s ruining so many people’s lives and affecting so many more. They’ve shown that they don’t care what happens to people so long as they can be manipulated in to voting for them, more than ever. They’re playing with lives.

Stress them at their homes, the people making these decisions, whether it’s CEOs or politicians. Riot on their company/government premises. It’s the only thing that would get through to them at this point and sadly the only power people have. It’s needed.

If it’s a bunch of chavs running riot stealing trainers though, it’s not going to work.
 

Jippy

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While I agree with the anger over poll tax it was wrongly directed, smashing up stuff and throwing things at police solves nothing.
Yep definitely and it always seemed stupid when people rioted and smashed up their own town centre.
Should target Tory offices, government buildings and HQs of profiteering energy companies. No violence against any individuals though as you wreck the message and lose all sympathy.
 

Lecland07

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I have no time for rioting or rioters - they just look to harm people who had nothing to do with the problem. It always happens and I will always be against it. And people just write off the victims of rioting as a necessity.

I don't see how they are any better than the people who caused the problem in the first place. No matter your problem, you have no right to destroy other people's lives.
 

maniak

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I have no time for rioting or rioters - they just look to harm people who had nothing to do with the problem. It always happens and I will always be against it. And people just write off the victims of rioting as a necessity.

I don't see how they are any better than the people who caused the problem in the first place. No matter your problem, you have no right to destroy other people's lives.
And people rioting never really achieved any societal change. Ever.
 

SalfordRed18

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I have no time for rioting or rioters - they just look to harm people who had nothing to do with the problem. It always happens and I will always be against it. And people just write off the victims of rioting as a necessity.

I don't see how they are any better than the people who caused the problem in the first place
. No matter your problem, you have no right to destroy other people's lives.
Really?
 

Pexbo

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As time goes on, we are going to see more and more resentment towards the boomer generation not only for hoarding wealth and property but for the absolutely criminal job they have made of looking after the planet. as time passes and the effects of climate change become clearer and more severe and people become more and more desperate, there’s going to be anger and violence targeted towards the main culprits.
 

Lecland07

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Yes.

Let's put it in this way: if someone abused you and then you went on to abuse someone else, how could you claim to be better than your abuser? You can't because you are not.

It is not the same as the issue, but it carries the same principle. Just because you are struggling with money does not give you the right to damage other people's properties or scare, injure, or kill them. These things always happen in riots so it cannot be dismissed. They are tied hand in hand. How could claim to be better than those causing this cost of living crisis after doing any of that?

Protesting is fine, but rioting is not.
 

calodo2003

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I think there's a decent probability we see some civil unrest within the next 2 yrs in the USA.

Too many armed, entitled, arrogant ignoramuses roaming around.
In the short term, we will definitely see more instances like this past Tuesday in Ohio. As far as seeing a coordinated uprising, these Gravy Seals couldn't coordinate a tic tac toe game.
 

11101

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While I agree with the anger over poll tax it was wrongly directed, smashing up stuff and throwing things at police solves nothing.
It worked though. Peaceful and organised protest achieves nothing. You have to cause major disruption to the people that make these decisions; gluing yourself to a road doesnt do that but attacking the police and the threat to march on Downing Street sure did.
 

SalfordRed18

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Yes.

Let's put it in this way: if someone abused you and then you went on to abuse someone else, how could you claim to be better than your abuser? You can't because you are not.

It is not the same as the issue, but it carries the same principle. Just because you are struggling with money does not give you the right to damage other people's properties or scare, injure, or kill them. These things always happen in riots so it cannot be dismissed. They are tied hand in hand. How could claim to be better than those causing this cost of living crisis after doing any of that?

Protesting is fine, but rioting is not.
That's a shit analogy with all due respect. People whove been abused don't tend to become abusers themselves in that regard, but have psychological issues in different areas of life which can effect other people. Someone with say anger issues because they were abused, is not as bad as their abuser.

All well and good being against rioting mind. It's a valid opinion, but I disagree that rioters are as bad as the people who caused them in the first place. That entirely depends on the situation and why they're rioting in the first place.
 

calodo2003

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What policy / occurrence over there will potentially spark tangible unrest in the near term?

Over here, it's Trump & the accusation of stolen elections that have proven to do it. If we have created inflation, I don't see that being a catalyst.