Does anyone have doubts that a new manager will be able to fix this?

fastwalker

Full Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
430
Post SAF, we seem to have had every guise of manager. The 'chosen one' David Moyes, who was hand picked by the great SAF himself but who lasted just months. The 'proven winners' in Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho, who had done it and won it all. Then the 'fan favourite' in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and then 'the Pep protégé' in Erik Ten Hag. That does not include the caretakers [Giggs, Ralf Rangnick and now Ruud Van Nistelrooy] .

Much as I believe that INEOS are right to remove ETH [in terms of league position, points and performance, we are worse off than when he arrived], I am actually dreading what happens next. People criticize ETH for lacking tactical acumen, but but it seems that United's problems go way deeper than that.

Are you confident that a new manager will be able to fix this? Or is this managerial merry-go-round the new normal for United?
 
I'm pretty sure they won't because the manager was only part of the problem. In the era of financial fair play only well run clubs(or cheats) can prosper and we have not been that for decades.
 
I don't expect a manager to fix it perfectly, but I have an issue with people equating what Ten Hag has done with other managers. Ten Hag had -1 goal difference last year, and it's currently -3 this year. I fully expect another manager to be able to get to 5th or 6th and score 10-20 more goals than we concede at the very least.
 
There's a difference between thinking a new manager can get us competing for the league and thinking a new manager could just make us decent again. The latter should be very possible, and it shouldn't have to take that long.

I mean previous managers had us finishing top 4, that would be a start. feck, top 7 would be a start given where we are now
 
fastwalker said:
Are you confident that a new manager will be able to fix this? Or is this managerial merry-go-round the new normal for United?
Click to expand...
The managerial merry-go-round is completely normal for all football clubs. In fact we've gone through fewer managers in the last 11 years than most well-run elite clubs.
 
glazed said:
I'm pretty sure they won't because the manager was only part of the problem. In the era of financial fair play only well run clubs(or cheats) can prosper and we have not been that for decades.
Click to expand...

A very very big part of the problem. Let's not forget he's not only responsible for results on the pitch, but has been heavily involved in recruitment too. That's not fully down to him in itself of course, but the club shouldn't be giving managers that level of input going forward.
 
Yeah, I think there’s something to work with in that squad. There’s no way we’re a mid table squad if you look at who else is in the top 6 - last season and currently.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
The managerial merry-go-round is completely normal for all football clubs. In fact we've gone through fewer managers in the last 11 years than most well-run elite clubs.
Click to expand...
Yeah, since Ferguson retired, Bayern Munich have had eight permanent managers. We've had 5.
 
There's a very real argument that we're the worst run club in Europe of comparable size & stature. I actually think that the changes Ineos have made will improve things, simply because they were so bad before. They don't need to be the best in the world to improve things, because it was so bad til now. And I think the new manager will benefit from that. So I'm hopeful that the situation around the manager will be better this time.
 
I think a new manager will improve on the last 18 months.

Not sure about trophy count, but pretty sure about improving league performance.
 
Get a left back and there is a solid backline to be made from the defenders available.

The midfield is fixable.

But I don't know how any manager could work with our attackers. A number 9 who can't control a football, Garnacho who plays with the intelligence of an 8 year old and sulky Rashford. The back-ups are awful in Antony and Zirkzee. Amad has flashes of promise but looks far too petite for the league and a creator in chief who gives the ball 30+ times a match. Just abysmal attackers across the board.
 
The issue was never the manager. There are deep-seated problems. Rangnick, Solzjaer, Jose and LVG all encountered them. No one got closer to a solution than ETH. Though the league position was dreadful, I expected the board to hold their nerve and see this as a work in progress. Good luck to whoever wants to climb on the bonfire.
 
I hear Ineos have tried to contact Alf Ramsey re the vacant managerial role
 
Tincanalley said:
The issue was never the manager. There are deep-seated problems. Rangnick, Solzjaer, Jose and LVG all encountered them. No one got closer to a solution than ETH. Though the league position was dreadful, I expected the board to hold their nerve and see this as a work in progress. Good luck to whoever wants to climb on the bonfire.
Click to expand...
Here's a wild thought: what if there are multiple issues, and one of them is the manager?
 
wolvored said:
Put it like this. They can’t be any worse
Click to expand...
Could lose more games or create fewer chances to squander. Could also not win any titles. EtH won two. So worse would be same kind of football but no titles and that certainly seems doable.
 
Depends what you mean by 'fix'
Were in the pits basically and cant get much worse. But our realistic level is probably competing with Spurs, Newcastle, Aston Villa and so on for top 4. Which is probably a tall order. No one will be satisfied or impressed with a manager who manages that, so ...
We're years away from where we want to be and thats a best case scenario. Make the most of the baby steps and dont set yourself up for disappointment with unrealistic expectations.
 
You could give any other current Premier League manager this squad and they'd do better than 14th. That's what needs "fixing" in the short term. I'll happily give up any further Tesco Value Energy Drink Cup wins to see the utterly shambolic league campaigns that Ten Hag has overseen turned around.
 
caid said:
Depends what you mean by 'fix'
Were in the pits basically and cant get much worse. But our realistic level is probably competing with Spurs, Newcastle, Aston Villa and so on for top 4. Which is probably a tall order. No one will be satisfied or impressed with a manager who manages that, so ...
We're years away from where we want to be and thats a best case scenario. Make the most of the baby steps and dont set yourself up for disappointment with unrealistic expectations.
Click to expand...
Right now, I'd settle for a guy who has a realistic chance of getting us in with a chance of the Europa, which is - as I said in the summer - our only possible route to the CL
 
caid said:
Depends what you mean by 'fix'
Click to expand...

It depends - most of all - on what "manager" means.

We don't need a "manager" (unless someone has, er, managed to clone a 45 year old Fergie - without any of the creepy side effects).

We need proper leadership.

Maybe that is already in place - I certainly hope so. But it remains to be seen.
 
caid said:
Depends what you mean by 'fix'
Were in the pits basically and cant get much worse. But our realistic level is probably competing with Spurs, Newcastle, Aston Villa and so on for top 4. Which is probably a tall order. No one will be satisfied or impressed with a manager who manages that, so ...
We're years away from where we want to be and thats a best case scenario. Make the most of the baby steps and dont set yourself up for disappointment with unrealistic expectations.
Click to expand...
We're only ever 1 or 2 good transfer windows away from being challengers.

For all the shite this season, if the new manager managed to bring in a world class left back who can remain fit, a midfielder who is in his prime and not coming for a final payday alongside a striker who actually knows where the goal is, we wouldn't be a million miles off, especially in a post Guardiola world.

I think in the medium to long term, we need to start seeing improvements in our injury record and also in being better at developing younger players so they reach their potential. Sorting those out two things out would put us in a position to be more consistent than maybe 1 decent league season every 3 years. This is ultimately where INEOS need to excel.
 
Shark said:
A very very big part of the problem. Let's not forget he's not only responsible for results on the pitch, but has been heavily involved in recruitment too. That's not fully down to him in itself of course, but the club shouldn't be giving managers that level of input going forward.
Click to expand...

Yes that was part of the Glazer legacy which seems to be on the fix list. And yet we still bought Zirkzee. It's clear the manager cannot decide either the overall style of play or the players we buy. Which means maybe we will be hiring smaller names like Frank?
 
There isn’t going to be a manager anymore.

It’s going to be a head coach supported by the sporting directors and the CEO.

Point being the perception of ‘manager’ we have needs to change and we should stop looking for the second coming of Sir Alex Ferguson because a) that type of manager is antequated now and b) even if there were managers like that, that is an impossible task to follow as he may be legitimately the best manager ever.

The ETH replacement first and foremost has to be an exceptional coach who can get the team playing well and able to win most games, with at least moderate man management skills being a secondary requirement. He does not need to be a transfer guru or have an eye for youth talent. He will be recommended them by the likes of Ashworth and Wilcox and it will be up to him how he wants to integrate them in the squad.

If everyone goes well, the head coach is on the same page as the rest of the hierarchy and will agree with the majority of their decisions.
 
Nah it can be a quick fix this squad is not bad we’ve purged a lot of shite. Barcelona and Chelsea are good examples of everything looking bleak to suddenly being a lot better
 
Does anyone doubt that it will be difficult, even for the best of managers?
There are underlying issues here too that could be very tricky to navigate and neutralise.

I don't have high hopes, top 6 and a Europa League win would be elite from this position.
 
Our current squad should be finishing around 4th or 5th IMO with a genuine chance to push Liverpool for 3rd, but they definitely edge it currently due to their all-timer quartet of VVD-TAA-Alisson-Salah.

I'd say a really good manager can get 75, maybe 80 points out of this team, and we shouldn't be finishing under 65 with any half-decent coach.

The first step is to find a manager who can do this (shouldn't be hard), but at the same time has a very high ceiling in all aspects of management (man management, tactics, head coaching, charisma, handling of media, etc.) so that he can eventually genuinely rival the likes of Arteta and Pep (and Klopp if he was still at Pool) when Ineos finally build a world class squad for them. This is obviously more difficult to find, but there are a lot of candidates out there who likely have a high ceiling. How high, don't ask me, but the likes of Nagelsmann, Amorim, Hoeness, Frank, etc. deserve a chance at a top 6 PL club with an exciting long-term project.
 
A good manager should be able to - through good coaching and tactical acumen - get the best out of the current squad (top 4 in my view), show fight and quality in games and then earn the credibility to get investment to push more.
 
Ten Hag had to go, his time was up and he was out of ideas. With that being said I am certain that a new manager cannot fix this, even once in a lifetime managers such as SAF would find it hard because it takes time and more importantly many people to fix the damage inflicted by the Glazer ownership.

A new manager can be successful but the rest of the club needs to also be a success i.e. the new INEOS structure.

We also have a major problem with our squad and the contracts, we're paying average players rediculous sums which is hurting us in many areas.
 
Preety big doubts yeah because it’s pretty obvious there are huge faults within the midfielders we have that means we can’t play in a certain manner.

The only quick fix I see is block the midfield put Cas and Ugarte in there, let Bruno roam free and do Bruno things and we just step back from trying to be a good technical team. Go back to just trying to catch people on the break.

Revisit trying to be a better team once we can rebuild the midfield and get wingers in.
 
Shane88 said:
Get a left back and there is a solid backline to be made from the defenders available.

The midfield is fixable.

But I don't know how any manager could work with our attackers. A number 9 who can't control a football, Garnacho who plays with the intelligence of an 8 year old and sulky Rashford. The back-ups are awful in Antony and Zirkzee. Amad has flashes of promise but looks far too petite for the league and a creator in chief who gives the ball 30+ times a match. Just abysmal attackers across the board.
Click to expand...
pretty much nail on the head.
 
This season is a write off. We don't have the firepower to see teams off when we are on top. What we need is a manager with a style and a system that is adaptable. A true tactician. As long as we are hard to beat then we can recruit in the areas we are weak in and hopefully begin to build from next season onwards. Ineos have already set themselves back keeping ETH and I don't expect a miracle turn around this season.
 
Whoever comes in, they have to drop underperforming players. The likes of Bruno and Rashford can no longer keep staying on the pitch just off their reputation.

ETH played favourites and it’s clear the players didn’t like it.
 
It will be fixed imo. This is doubly true given that the two central sources of our problems - lack of a DOF/executive football structure, and a manager capable of working within said structure, have been addressed. Whoever manages us next will have to be comfortable with the fact that the CEO, Sporting and Technical Directors will also have say in transfers and beyond.
 
fastwalker said:
Post SAF, we seem to have had every guise of manager. The 'chosen one' David Moyes, who was hand picked by the great SAF himself but who lasted just months. The 'proven winners' in Louis Van Gaal and Jose Mourinho, who had done it and won it all. Then the 'fan favourite' in Ole Gunnar Solskjaer and then 'the Pep protégé' in Erik Ten Hag. That does not include the caretakers [Giggs, Ralf Rangnick and now Ruud Van Nistelrooy] .

Much as I believe that INEOS are right to remove ETH [in terms of league position, points and performance, we are worse off than when he arrived], I am actually dreading what happens next. People criticize ETH for lacking tactical acumen, but but it seems that United's problems go way deeper than that.

Are you confident that a new manager will be able to fix this? Or is this managerial merry-go-round the new normal for United?
Click to expand...
People underrate constantly how much impact proper coaching and a good manager can have. Klopp instantly turned a gash Livepool side into a very competitive side that almost won Europa his first year. Maresca has completely changed how Chelsea look already a couple of months in compared to Poch. Emery took over a Villa side that Gerrard had in the relegation zone and now has them as top 4 contenders. Tuchel won the fecking UCL after taking over that garbage Lampard team. Countless more examples. But stop assuming every manager is the savior or there's "no one that can fix this" because it's a load of shit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.