Currently, he is too pre-occupied, to think about moving to United
Poll: Does it make sense to tie Pogba down to a new long term contract?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
He has 7 assists in the league this season already. People can’t ask Pogba to largely play a supportive role in a midfield double pivot and remove him from all set pieces to indulge Bruno and then lament him no longer outputting how he did previously.
So what's his best position?
People keep saying Pogba is played everywhere because Ole thinks he can do it , when in reality it's because he hasn't played well enough to cement a regular spot in our lineup.
No. It doesn’t make sense to do anything without a plan of how you can feasibly make it work. It doesn’t make sense to try and fit Bruno and Pogba into a 3, it doesn’t make sense to buy Sancho for the right wing, it doesn’t make sense to spend big money on VDB without a plan or style that makes sense. None of it does.
First thing first, just get a fecking clue. After that, what does or doesn’t make sense becomes immediately very clear.
First thing first, just get a fecking clue. After that, what does or doesn’t make sense becomes immediately very clear.
How many times have we seen Pogba in a 4-3-3 for United? I feel like I've seen very few games that we don't have a 2 deeper in midfield so I'm not sure this evidence is particularly robust. I think we could probably take a small sample of games in any position he's played for United and come up with a handful of good ones within that and offer it as proof. He has that type ability that he's capable of good games from anywhere but it's still far removed from nailing something down for him.
Until we fully transition to this and it is demonstrable then it is still speculative. To some extent the management have to have foresight when squad planning and maybe this 4-3-3 could be part of it, there's no issue with having the idea, all I'm saying is I don't think stating we've landed on the solution but fail to utilise it is a fair characterisation at this point. Bruno and Pogba have a strange look about them in this setup as well which no doubt requires some thought.
I agree, I don't like Rashford up front or on the right. But I think this is absolutely demonstrable statistically and in performance within the confines of Oles setup. The issue with Pogba is that there isn't a position we fall back on and say he's categorically at his best there and that's why the comparison falls flat. If you think about it this is fairly self evident as you're having to refer to a formation we've very rarely used to suggest a way forward.
Shite, just saw the headline now. Well he can’t operate in our midfield if he’s sat in a jail cell!
This. It’s a complete case of double standards how Bruno and Pogba are judged and referred to. How anyone can review our last two years and state that Pogba is the one that is difficult to incorporate or is inflexible is baffling.
he might be one of the best but feck me he also one of the most inconsistent
He’s a fantastic players so absolutely yes. Most of our team sucks at passing, short and long, and ball retention. He’s very good at these things.
Set up the midfield properly, and upgrade where needed (DM). Pogba is not the problem.
Set up the midfield properly, and upgrade where needed (DM). Pogba is not the problem.
Bissouma is totally wrong for that role.
In fact, that formation would have Bruno, Pogba and Bissouma all playing out of position.
No
If Pogba was good enough to be our main guy doing the offensive load, we wouldn't have bought in Bruno.
Pogba's biggest problem is that he's best where Bruno and Rashford plays at, but he's not good enough to be the first choice at either positions.
Add on his agent and brother's antics over the years, we're dumb as rocks to re-sign him, which would most likely end up happening anyway.
He's one of our best players in the same way that Mr Woo is one of the world's best players.
Two spells under Mourinho (partnered by Carrick and Herrera, then Matic and Herrera) and one under Solskjaer (with Matic and Herrera) in his interim spell. And it was largely successful: people have posted our stats with that Matic-Herrera-Pogba midfield three before and it was very impressive, definitely a way higher win ratio than we've had overall for a few seasons now.
Well, no, because Fernandes has been generating more than enough output to justify his apparent inflexibility. If you make the argument that both of them need different formations to get the best out of them, then it becomes a question of who's more central to our attack to justify being accommodated. And that's pretty obvious right now. Fernandes was our top scorer and creator last season while Pogba spent half his time playing wide (and producing very, very little output)
If we were playing 4-3-3 with Pogba in his favourite role and he was carrying the attack putting up boatloads of goals and assists, everyone would agree Fernandes was the one that needed to find a way to fit into the team.
(This is all ignoring the question of whether it is in fact possible to accommodate both of them with a better tactical structure. Different argument)
Pogba has the ability to be world class, but he still should have been sold in the summer. He's too inconsistent and he obviously doesn't really want to be here. And with Rashford coming back and Ole's obvious distrust of Pogba in the midfield, it will just be another huge salary on the books that we won't be able to get rid of...
This.
Nope. Let him go. Even with someone like Rice in the side a central midfield that includes both Bruno and Pogba has no balance. We need two midfielders - a destroyer who can keep things simple and resist a press and someone like Carrick who can pass the ball with ease and has an excellent positional sense to snuff out attacks. Even in that scenario Bruno has to play a bit deeper.
Recall, our best central midfield in the last 15 years included Carrick, Hargreaves, and Scholes.
Recall, our best central midfield in the last 15 years included Carrick, Hargreaves, and Scholes.
Yes but he is not a 400k a week player.
The fact that he cost 90 million and opinion is split about 50/50 should say it all.
Only if he knows something we don't about the managerial situation. He's been hesitant to commit long term for years, no way PSG/others don't offer more and have a better path to winning due to who they hire as coaches.
Granted I like the player but don't think it would be the biggest loss if he left. Him and Bruno is too much in one midfield and even if I'd rather have Pobga it's more unrealistic.
Granted I like the player but don't think it would be the biggest loss if he left. Him and Bruno is too much in one midfield and even if I'd rather have Pobga it's more unrealistic.
Or try to keep your best players with you. Appoint a talented manager who can get the best out of him. Silva and KDB played in one team, with just one DM behind them.
Aguero changed his game after Pep arrived, he wasn't the penalty box striker that he was at first. Of Sterling, Mahrez and Sane, only Sane really played as a proper wide attacker in the way that our wide attackers do now. Its not about hard work per se (though you need some of course) its about the number of options for a pass when you're on the ball, or a press when you lose it. City always make sure there's a pass on for their players by using one or more ways of getting the extra player in there. They don't always have a false 9 plus fullbacks coming inside plus 2 inverted wingers, but they usually have at least one of those options, often more than one. Not to mention the fact that De Bruyne and Silva were both more considerate with the ball and patient in the build up than Pogba and Bruno.
In our case, Rashford & Greenwood both naturally stay outside the width of the penalty area in the build up. Ronaldo isn't really linking up play these days. So who are Pogba and Bruno playing off in order to retain and work the ball in attacking areas? Each other and..? That was our problem vs Villareal. With Pogba and Bruno pushing high up, Sancho & Greenwood out wide and Ronaldo up in the box, all our attacking options are risky passes or dribbles, and as soon as we lose possession, we're a single pass away from a 2v1 against our DM with no pressure on the ball. AWB in the middle would help, but that makes our wide right attacker a bit redundant. Fine if they come inside to find the ball, not much good if they like to play in space out wide, as our options do.
Quite possibly, I'd love to see us press high, that would make it easier to play with a lot of numbers up front, but we're miles away from that at the moment. The workrate of our attackers is patchy and a Bruno/Pogba midfield won't outwork many teams either. A different manager might improve things through training or formation changes, but our squad hasn't been assembled with that approach in mind, so I don't see it as a natural progression. Much to our loss.
This has been discussed to death, isn't it? Tell me how many occasions have we played a proper 3 man midfield with him? We haven't.
Interesting, so we've played it but ages ago. I was thinking about Ole's reign which is probably why those setups and personnel were not springing to mind.
There is a rather large issue with the fact we only have a shell of Matic available. That is rectifiable in the market and we probably have the Herrera element covered within the squad.
It still brings up the age old Bruno debate, and how we work both of them into that side. Or whether it's even worth building our setup around Paul Pogba. It's not Pogba FC or the Pogba midfield, so even if there are theoretical setups that should get more from him we still have to consider the rest of the squad and what gets the best out of them. Is it going to be possible to get the best out of them both at the same time? It's a big question.
I think it is best for Pogba and United that he moves on.
The key here for me is actually how long Ronaldo will stay with us.
The longer Ronaldo stay the higher the need for others to create service for him will be. And I can't think of a more creative player than Pogba.
If Ole can get Pogba and Ronaldo in peak form, we can win any game...
The longer Ronaldo stay the higher the need for others to create service for him will be. And I can't think of a more creative player than Pogba.
If Ole can get Pogba and Ronaldo in peak form, we can win any game...
Square peg round hole?It amazes me that we have a World Cup winning midfielder in our team yet we think he should leave the club . What's even more farcical is midfield is our weak point.How the feck does that work.
This entire forum was waxing lyrical about him after his start to the season, entire team has a rough spell and he’s back on the scrap heap.
Of course we should keep him, our midfield is crap, he’s the only one who can get a feckin assist between them all.
I’d get rid of the entire midfield except Pogba and use the money to buy one single, decent, DM.
We are going nowhere with McFred and Matic is semi-retired, legs have gone.
Of course we should keep him, our midfield is crap, he’s the only one who can get a feckin assist between them all.
I’d get rid of the entire midfield except Pogba and use the money to buy one single, decent, DM.
We are going nowhere with McFred and Matic is semi-retired, legs have gone.
Of course it makes sense - he's a top player. The idea that we could somehow be a better team if we bought a "functional" midfield instead is bizarre...we have the players right now to challenge, and we should be. Letting Pogba go, Cavani go and Ronaldo retire with nothing to show for it would be criminal.
4 of them were in one game!
I maintain the view that he is by far the most talented player in the squad.
When things are quiet, I have no issue with him at all and hope he stays.
When the agent or brothers start piping up, I really dislike the whole show.
When things are quiet, I have no issue with him at all and hope he stays.
When the agent or brothers start piping up, I really dislike the whole show.
Aguero did a lot more off-the-ball work under Guardiola, but he was still very much a striker, not a false 9 the way they're playing nowadays. You say only Sane played as a proper wide attacker of that trio, but in the 2017/18 season in particular they played most games with him on the left wing and Sterling on the right, both as wide as possible, with Silva and De Bruyne playing in the spaces in the left and right channels. It obviously changed depending on who came in to play in the wide attacking positions (Mahrez only plays on the right, ditto Bernardo, so Sterling switched over to the left when playing with him, and so on).
I don't disagree with anything in the second paragraph but, again, this is all stuff that can be addressed with the right structure and team shape without necessarily changing the personnel. Part of the reason all our attacking options are risky passes is simply because we're set up towards playing that way, which isn't the same as saying we can't play a more controlled game with the same players. Similarly on the subject of De Bruyne and Silva being more considerate with the ball, that to me is more by choice and tactical plan than just the way they naturally play - I also don't think it's accurate for De Bruyne in particular, who plays a lot of speculative passes. I wouldn't be surprised if his pass completion was similar to Fernandes (who, again, is definitely under instructions in our current setup to look for the killer ball every time).
De Bruyne was a number ten who often played out wide in a 4-2-3-1 before he came to City, and Silva played wide in a 4-4-2/4-2-3-1 under each of their previous managers before Guardiola - both arguably more attacking positions than Fernandes played at Sporting or Pogba played at Juventus. They were both able to play as a central pair with Fernandinho behind them to mop up, and a sweeper keeper behind them. Can we replicate that exact system and dominate games the way that team did with the squad we have right now? No, but we can definitely look more cohesive and create more chances than we do now without needing to bring in more new players.
Is that now a problem ?
His talent is not in question. The problem with Pogba is the consistent application of his immense talent. However many years he’s been with us now can we point to a single four-match run where’s he’s been at peak? I seriously doubt it. And it’s not like it’s been four matches on, two matches off. It’s more like two matches on, six matches off.
It would be tempting to blame everyone else but Pogba for his long runs of poor form, but perhaps he himself should be held accountable.
As it stands right now I say move him on to Real or wherever he would rather be. But if he does in fact pull it together and go on a fantastic run of form between now and January 1 by all means let’s sit him down and sign the new contract. But if on January 1 he still says no to a new contract we need to move him along.
It would be tempting to blame everyone else but Pogba for his long runs of poor form, but perhaps he himself should be held accountable.
As it stands right now I say move him on to Real or wherever he would rather be. But if he does in fact pull it together and go on a fantastic run of form between now and January 1 by all means let’s sit him down and sign the new contract. But if on January 1 he still says no to a new contract we need to move him along.
It makes no sense in footballing terms to give a player a massive contract when you don't even have a position for him really.
I can't see a day when he can play in the same team as Bruno when we are also playing the likes of Rashford/Sancho or Greenwood. There just isn't enough defensive workrate and team-play there.
I would rather save the wages a bring in two top level midfielders, ideally a CDM and box-to-box.
I can't see a day when he can play in the same team as Bruno when we are also playing the likes of Rashford/Sancho or Greenwood. There just isn't enough defensive workrate and team-play there.
I would rather save the wages a bring in two top level midfielders, ideally a CDM and box-to-box.
we’ve tried him with prime Matic and it got us 6th and ran through and dominated in the EL. A new DM and Pogba isn’t going to work. We are just going around in circles back to being open, standing off and getting played straight though. Why are peoples memeores so short. It was literally only a few years ago. We all saw France at the Euros with the best DM in the world.
with any 4 of Bruno Sancho Rashford Greenwood Ronaldo and Cavani we don’t need a midfielder who can assist. We need a midfielder who can win the ball, stop counters and get it forward to them as fast as possible. That’s not Pogba. We also need a tempo setter and a partnership to win the midfield battle. Also not Pogba. We certainly don’t need another attacking player who can’t defend in midfield behind an attack who don’t defend just to cram a talented but erratic name into the team. From the sublime to the ridiculous in 5 games every season. Midfield needs to be composed steely and steady. That’s what we’ve been missing in there since Pogba signed
Play him off the left or instead of Bruno or let him move on. Don’t play him any 2 and expect a different outcome just because he can get an assist
A luxury player.
One we can afford financially.
Unfortunately, one we cannot afford to have in this team based on his 5 years here.
Absolutely one of the instrumental problems in this club.
Underperforming time after time, with the occasional moments that seem to blind a lot of folks on the CAF.
We won't win anything with him in the team.
Maybe in spite of him.
One we can afford financially.
Unfortunately, one we cannot afford to have in this team based on his 5 years here.
Absolutely one of the instrumental problems in this club.
Underperforming time after time, with the occasional moments that seem to blind a lot of folks on the CAF.
We won't win anything with him in the team.
Maybe in spite of him.
I can honestly say I haven't got a fecking clue anymore. I'm tired of so many aspects of what's going on with this club right now.
No. He doesn't fit the team and frankly any system that has both him and Bruno is bound to have flaws. We need to build a completely new midfield duo to support our front 4 and that should not include Pogba. He's way too talented to play second fiddle and be a bit part player for us, and also to expensive for that.
He should have been sold. It would be deeply embarrassing for us to have a player leave us for free twice after we paid a fortune to get him back, so we pretty much have to tie him down now to save face.