He also didn't want Tuppet to have him.
You know how defensive midfielders work, right? That they actually help their defenders even when they are playing as midfielders?
Dominoes draft: Grand Finale - Tuppet vs Lord SInister
- Thread starter Enigma_87
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You know how defensive midfielders work, right? That they actually help their defenders even when they are playing as midfielders?
It's a fair point. I worry about the transition though.
LS’s team is susceptible to be caught on the counter especially with Carlos and Beckenbauer wanting to join the attack. I can see Ronaldo and Cryuff dragging the defense all over the place
Tuppet takes this. Can't be tactically more astute. Has the right players in right positions on both ends. That defense will withstand Normandy.
Playing with a defensive mid or with additional CB/SW makes a massive difference.
As for Nesta, Lord has a team full of GOATs so he was in position where he can not care about the opposition and focus fully on his team. Imagine Gerd over Kocsis, Cafu over Gerets or Neeskens over Tigana/Keane, his team would be unstoppable even with Messi/Diego issue.
Before I read through the match comments (already on page2 nice) I want to leave my initial uninfluenced thoughts from the OP.
I really like Tuppet's overall tactic. Its optimal to shutting down a Messi-Maradona attack. I think Vogts is an intriguing choice to man mark Diego (BTW I thought Gentile did his best job on shutting down Platini even more than Zico and Diego) considering Sinister put a single arrow going left on Maradona which plays right into having Vogts man mark. And Maldini-Thuram is going to frustrate the hell out of poor Leo. Zambrotta I also like as a foil to Roberto Carlos. He is the right type of player for his role here.
Thing that is keeping Sinister in this game for me is the Kaiser. I can see him disrupting Boniek's game quite well and launching valuable counters.
I really like Tuppet's overall tactic. Its optimal to shutting down a Messi-Maradona attack. I think Vogts is an intriguing choice to man mark Diego (BTW I thought Gentile did his best job on shutting down Platini even more than Zico and Diego) considering Sinister put a single arrow going left on Maradona which plays right into having Vogts man mark. And Maldini-Thuram is going to frustrate the hell out of poor Leo. Zambrotta I also like as a foil to Roberto Carlos. He is the right type of player for his role here.
Thing that is keeping Sinister in this game for me is the Kaiser. I can see him disrupting Boniek's game quite well and launching valuable counters.
To be honest there's a lot of free movement both in Tuppet's offense and Sinister's defense. All three of those attackers can be playmaker or finisher, can drop deep or isolate the CBs and I can see specially Cruyff and Boniek taking turns in terms of carrying the ball forward. Boniek and Ronaldo especially played in ruthless counter attacking Italian setups and were insanely effective. Very unlikely that they'd have set positions.
Crucially I see Ronaldo tormenting the Forster and Nesta (uefa cup massacre) duo with one of Boniek/Cruyff getting the ball from deep and the other roaming in space either with a run behind the defense or available for a 1-2 and blitz past that defense. It really is a sensational counter attacking unit, very few defenses can live with it.
Nesta played with Canna and Maldini, both who used to lead the defense, and he was happily complimenting them, I do not get how he will suddenly have issues with someone else leading the defense.
A side center back in a 3men defense needs to have outstanding ability with the ball and without it, and there are very few defenders who are in the league as Nesta when it comes to the said qualities, and yes Nesta is a upgrade over Stam.
Plus the draft format meant I could not have much upgrades anywhere, apart from this obvious area.
There is a difference with not having issues and being at your absolute best but lets leave that on this, dont want to be to negative towards your team and put focus on only one thing.
you are making it sound like Nesta will be troubles playing in a more protected set up than he usually used to play in.
Anyways it is okay to be negative, after all this is just a game
Looking forward to when you ARE being negative then.....
didnt say i wasnt negative....
I agree, but it was typically Platini dropping deep to unleash Boniek with a threaded pass rather than Boniek carrying the ball from midfield.
It's trouble, no doubt, but I'm positive Cruyff will wind up having to drop deeper than that.
THat's true. Without a DLP and two B2B with Vogts on a man marking mission getting the ball to Cruyff and Ronaldo could be an issue. Sure you can have Cruyff dropping deep but that would mean Boniek looking for space elsewhere and essentially coming against der Kaiser which considering the other personnel won't be of advantage to Tuppet.
Boniek buzzing around and moving the ball directly IMO is the better option. Either way Tuppet is not set up for possession play and would probably overlap that midfield altogether.
I thought Ocwirk was considered to have superb passing range and accuracy. From what I remember he played a role that seemed a hybrid of DLP and B2B. I don't think getting the ball to Cruyff or Ronaldo would be much issue for him.
To be honest only Cafu over Gerets seem like a great and so needed upgrade (not sure if it was possible, I think they were linked to Cannavaro?), especially the more attacking Neeskens would only run into Maradona's channels
"The clockwork" suggests more emphasis on the passing, surely.
Neeskens would press the midfield a lot more than Keane will though.. Not sure if he could have got Neeskens but if he could have then it would be a better upgrade than Stam to Nesta
tbh i actually forgot how the upgrades worked and that they needed to be linked 
But still, id take Thuram over Nesta in this specific situation.
But still, id take Thuram over Nesta in this specific situation.I think he'll more of a B2B in this game and helping with the transitions rather than sitting deep, considering Tigana and Keane.
Best would be him Ocwirk, Blanc and Boniek taking care of moving the ball rather than Cruyff getting deep. Yes he'll not be the one man spine, but in this specific game he needs him in the attacking third more than dropping deep only leaving to Fenomeno to carry the attack.
I will start with Nesta.
The issue is your preference is based on an odd reasoning:
- You say that Nesta is a GOAT in central defence if it's a back 4
- You say that Nesta is a GOAT as the sweeper in a back 5
- But, you say it's a poor choice in a back 4 where Beckenbauer has to viewed as the bridge* between the central defence and the midfield
Let's say you are fastidious here, less when it comes to building your own team and deploying Seeler as a right-winger or Beckham as a wing-back
* that's my understanding of the picture, sorry if I'm wrong, I haven't read everything so far.
You can prefer Stam or Nesta or somebody else: fine.
The issue is your preference is based on an odd reasoning:
- You say that Nesta is a GOAT in central defence if it's a back 4
- You say that Nesta is a GOAT as the sweeper in a back 5
- But, you say it's a poor choice in a back 4 where Beckenbauer has to viewed as the bridge* between the central defence and the midfield
Let's say you are fastidious here, less when it comes to building your own team and deploying Seeler as a right-winger or Beckham as a wing-back
* that's my understanding of the picture, sorry if I'm wrong, I haven't read everything so far.
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Nesta is a a great upgrade imo solidifies that defence. Zambrotta and Blanc are more weaker than anything LS has.
@Ecstatic same old crap with you, learn to read first thats all i have to say for now
The phenomenonIt's so hard to watch those young Ronaldo videos, knowing what we could've had but didn't
Tuppet's team has no width other than Zambarotta, who ideally should be playing on other flank where he can help out with Messi too. Despite Cruyff/Boniek they will play centrally against a midfield packed by LS.
Even without Maradona, LS still has Carlos and Gerets able to move the ball out wide and Beckenbauer plus two good CMs and Messi able to support centrally.
LS will edge this one.
Even without Maradona, LS still has Carlos and Gerets able to move the ball out wide and Beckenbauer plus two good CMs and Messi able to support centrally.
LS will edge this one.
What are asterisks supposed to censor?
A bit harsh there? He's french and English is his second language.
Yeah he did indeed had a great passing range. Sadly there is not much of his play that I can show on video. Still here's one cool assist against England from 1952 game -
I am also committing the sin of getting game data here, but pes stats rate his long passing as 98, that is Pirlo range. http://www.pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=184
Got tired of it tbh, his reading is perfectly fine until the point where the text doesnt suit him.
Nesta is not a GOAT CB for me - depending on the pool of course, but there are fair few better than him IMO - Baresi, Figueroa, Moore, der Kaiser, Scirea, Passarella and of course some debatable ones who are at the same level but personally I'd pick before him - Kohler, Krol.
Having said that, he's not a pointless upgrade due to two reasons - it deprived Tuppet from getting him as a Maldini/Nesta CB pairing is a proven and complimentary one and also he's an upgrade to Stam.
Quality wise Nesta is better than Thuram, but as Sjor said the latter is the better fit, especially with Kaiser in there.
In hindsight Cafu would've been a worse pick for LS as it would've indeed given him a GOAT right flank but that right flank would've came against Thuram/Maldini pairing on the other side...
Having said that, he's not a pointless upgrade due to two reasons - it deprived Tuppet from getting him as a Maldini/Nesta CB pairing is a proven and complimentary one and also he's an upgrade to Stam.
Quality wise Nesta is better than Thuram, but as Sjor said the latter is the better fit, especially with Kaiser in there.
In hindsight Cafu would've been a worse pick for LS as it would've indeed given him a GOAT right flank but that right flank would've came against Thuram/Maldini pairing on the other side...
Lol.. I thought so as well that there is no way you could have got Neeskens through Cannavaro but maybe people were talking about some other reinforcement roundSadly Neeskens never played with Cannavaro
Depends on what quality you are looking for, but pure defensive wise I do not think apart from Baresi, Moore and Figueroa, anyone you mentioned is better than Nesta. yes Scirea, Passarella and der Kaiser are much greater players given their impact on the game overall, but pure defensive talent, I would not rate them higher. Although it is all opinions at the end of the day
.You know when I was writing that width section in OP I was basically thinking, yeah EAP is going to post a thing about width, I better cover this. You said exactly the same thing of my team having no width, when I had Garrincha in one of the draft matches
Think they're a bridge? (in the absence of being able to post pics in text).
And then go on with a diamond or Christmas tree with two defensive full backs in the next draft.You know when I was writing that width section in OP I was basically thinking, yeah EAP is going to post a thing about width, I better cover this. You said exactly the same thing of my team having no width, when I had Garrincha in one of the draft matches
Really? I said that. Must have been drunkYou said exactly the same thing of my team having no width, when I had Garrincha in one of the draft matches
Tbh, if I was you, I'd have given fielded Cruyff in his own 3-4-3 formation... Zambrarotta has rarely been rated as a good defender in drafts and Litti may as well serve you better both as a player and for width.
Boniek......Ronaldo......Litti
...............Cruyff.............
...Davids............Ocwirk...
................Vogts.............
..Maldini...Blanc...Thuram..
No, he's just vexed because he knows I'm right here. So, his reply was I hadn't read properly.