Donald Trump - Senate "Trial" Underway

Ekkie Thump

Full Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2013
Messages
1,958
The progression usually goes something like:
1. He didn't do it
2. Ok well even if he did it, it isn't a crime
3. Yeah he did it but he did it for the right reasons. Honestly, why isn't everyone doing it? Trump is a genius!
 

shabadu84

Mint? Berry?
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
4,603
Location
Muppet Treasure Island
In Washington, officials outside Trump’s inner circle who were dismayed by Yovanovitch’s ouster reacted with growing alarm and confusion over Giuliani’s subsequent activities.

Then-national security adviser John Bolton was outraged by the outsourcing of a relationship with a country struggling to survive Russian aggression, officials said. But by then his standing with Trump was strained, and neither he nor his senior aides could get straight answers about Giuliani’s agenda or authority, officials said. Bolton declined to comment.

“We had the same visibility as anybody else — watching Giuliani on television,” a former senior official said. Officials at the U.S. Embassy in Kiev were similarly deprived of information, even as they faced questions from Ukrainians about whether Giuliani was a designated representative.
Bolton's Revenge? Also, Rudy's time to get the knife in the back

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/giuliani-pursued-shadow-ukraine-agenda-as-key-foreign-policy-officials-were-sidelined/2019/09/24/ee18aaec-deec-11e9-be96-6adb81821e90_story.html?outputType=amp&wpisrc=al_news__alert-national--alert-world--alert-politics&wpmk=1&__twitter_impression=true
 

dumbo

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
6,832
Trump gonna get impeached all the way to a second term. He's on his way to the big house, big white house that is.
 

Eboue

nasty little twerp with crazy bitter-man opinions
Joined
Jun 6, 2011
Messages
55,952
Location
Irish history expert
the people are marching in the streets, demanding trump resign. i can hear them a few blocks away, even the police have joined in, snl cast members are wearing pussy hats, thats it I cant just sit here anymore, I just told my boss the revolution will not be televised, im printing out the emoluments clause on 11 x 17 paper in bold font and passing it out to sal from do the right thing, hes reading it with a quizzical look and then conceding that I do have a point, it's all in the balance, it hasnt happened yet it hasnt even begun, this time, maybe this time with all this much to gain, pennsylvania avenue, maryland, the world, the golden dome of washington, to crown itself with desperate and unbelievable victory, the desperate gamble, the cast made three years ago, or to anyone who ever posted a tweet under a resistance hashtag, the moment in 2016 when someone thought this is it, the absolute edge of no return, they're coming around the corner now, I'm joining in, we're all singing "we wish you a mueller christmas", oh my god it's happening now, the crowd is gathering around a shop window with black and white TVs next to the soda fountain, walter cronkite himself is saying that the president is about t
its happening. never doubt me
 

owlo

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
579
A few questions from the uneducated aka me:


1) Is this impeachment just about gaining the levers of oversight/higher level subpoenas etc rather than removing Trump?
2) Do the democrats have a cogent strategy to pressure Moscow Mitch?
3) Apart from the likes of Collins and Murkowski, is there any appetite from senate Republicans for this?
4) What horsetrading would it take for Massacre Mitch to get on board? ie.If pressure from #2 isn't enough, do they have a way to tip the scales?
5) What's the likely formation of the Dems legal team?
 

Revan

Assumptionman
Joined
Dec 19, 2011
Messages
38,630
House conducts an inquiry and then votes on articles of impeachment. If passed the Senate then convenes a trial based on these articles - to be presided over by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court (Roberts). The Senate then votes on whether or not to convict. Any conviction must be by a 2/3 majority.

Given the Republicans hold the Senate 53-45(+2) the chances of conviction are not particularly high.
Aye. Unless McConnell has had enough and decides that Republicans are better without Trump, in which case he sacrifices Trump for the good of the party, but I don't think we have reached that stage.
 

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
45,622
Location
Brizzle
A few questions from the uneducated aka me:


1) Is this impeachment just about gaining the levers of oversight/higher level subpoenas etc rather than removing Trump?
2) Do the democrats have a cogent strategy to pressure Moscow Mitch?
3) Apart from the likes of Collins and Murkowski, is there any appetite from senate Republicans for this?
4) What horsetrading would it take for Massacre Mitch to get on board? ie.If pressure from #2 isn't enough, do they have a way to tip the scales?
5) What's the likely formation of the Dems legal team?

1) This Ukraine thing is the straw that broke the camels back. There has been any number of impeachable offences but this is a single bite size event which is seemingly concise enough and serious enough to justify starting proceedings. In theory, they should have legal basis to get whatever documents they require for their inquiry, in reality Barr is going to continue to block everything. I don’t see this as a huge problem as impeachment is a political process rather than criminal and Barr and Trump stonewalling can therefore be considered as impeachable acts in their own right which will only aid the process. My prediction is that within the next 6 months, Barr will also be subject to an impeachment process.

2) Don’t worry about Mitch, this is about impeachment rather than indictment. These proceedings are being started in the knowledge that the senate won’t play along.

3) I’d forget about those two already. Romney is the one to come out strongest but he also has no spine.

4) I have no idea what Mitch will do if he’s impeached. Standard procedure would obviously be for the Senate to have a trial but it wouldn’t be a huge shock if McConnell protected him from that. What the Democrats really want to do here is get all the evidence against him out in public and make it an open shut impeachment case and make it clear that high crimes have been committed. If McConnell and the Republicans block a trial despite this, it puts them into the cess pool with Trump, if a trial does go ahead, it’s a chance for the evidence to be dragged out in public once again and if it’s plainly obvious he committed serious crimes and they decide not to indict him, it’s terrible optics for them.

5) Still not clear. It’s 6 house committees conducting independent impeachment inquiries apparently which seems chaotic to me. There’s calls for a single select committee.




The most important thing right now is for the Democrats to have dropped Biden out of the race before any of this starts. If Biden is the Democrat nominee when impeachment is going on it’s going to be a bloodbath. There is going to be numerous open testimonies, Democrats will be using them to gain evidence against Trump while every single Republican is going to be using it to dig deep into Biden and his family and create a very powerful narrative of corruption that will stick to him just like the buttery males stuck to Hillary.

If Warren is the candidate and all they have in their armoury is some nonsense about Biden, they’re going to look like fools.
 

KirkDuyt

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Messages
11,374
Location
Dutchland
Supports
Feyenoord
So this will last a few weeks, then Trump is reelected in 2020 and it will be 4 more years of screaming that he's a big ol'd meanie?

Or does this actually have some sort of chance of success?
 

esmufc07

Won the Grand National Sweepstake once
Scout
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
36,162
*President Trump.

Also, is the punishment for impeachment just removal from Office? Does it not come with mandatory prison time?
 

MadMike

Full Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Messages
8,326
Location
London
Presidential harassment!
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
108,246
Location
Los Angeles
*President Trump.

Also, is the punishment for impeachment just removal from Office? Does it not come with mandatory prison time?
His removal would make him legally exposed since he wouldn’t have Presidential protections anymore.

 

Dargonk

Ninja Scout
Scout
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
17,365
Location
Australia
Yay a new season of the US sideshow. Will they, won't they, how will he escape this time, are the Democrats ever actually going to do something? So many plot lines. Though like all sitcoms, it is likely that the just end up in the exact same place at the end of the episode.
 

unchanged_lineup

Tarheel Tech Wizard
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
12,448
Location
Leaving A Breakfast On All Of Your Doorsteps
Supports
Janet jazz jazz jam
Yay a new season of the US sideshow. Will they, won't they, how will he escape this time, are the Democrats ever actually going to do something? So many plot lines. Though like all sitcoms, it is likely that the just end up in the exact same place at the end of the episode.
Well, the writers had already used up all of the existing book material and had been struggling for ideas. The characters had become frankly unbelievable (I mean, the dialogue? Who actually talks like that? The difference between now and earlier seasons in the 80s and 90s is glaring).

Ratings were slumping so they had try something dramatic... in general in recent seasons, it's almost as if they save their budget for these big blowout setpiece episodes just before the season finale, but at the expense of all the other episodes.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
15,328
Location
København
Supports
Time Travel
Aye. Unless McConnell has had enough and decides that Republicans are better without Trump, in which case he sacrifices Trump for the good of the party, but I don't think we have reached that stage.
If there is a strong case, a full blown trial with the senate as the jury and the house playing prosecution would rattle even the toughest partisans in the senate. Even McConnell can't sweep this under the rug.
 

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
10,683
Location
Stamford Bridge
Aye. Unless McConnell has had enough and decides that Republicans are better without Trump, in which case he sacrifices Trump for the good of the party, but I don't think we have reached that stage.
Which isn’t at all impossible. It’s worth remembering that most GOP senators and congressmen apparently hate Trump’s guts with a passion. He’s humiliated them, bullied them and threatened to turn their own bases against them if they don’t obey his commands.

This is a group of people who would happily knife their own grandmother to get ahead in life. If they see an opportunity to get rid of him without destroying the Republican brand or risking their own re-election, it’s perfectly possible they could turn on him if there’s enough concrete proof on the table.
 

SteveJ

all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
60,256
PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT!

 

Withnail

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,535
Location
The Arena of the Unwell
Yay a new season of the US sideshow. Will they, won't they, how will he escape this time, are the Democrats ever actually going to do something? So many plot lines. Though like all sitcoms, it is likely that the just end up in the exact same place at the end of the episode.
:lol:
 

owlo

Full Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2015
Messages
579
Thanks @Pexbo As I understand it, if Congress indicts, the senate cannot then refuse a trial. They in effect 'lose control of the floor' for such a process.

I still don't understand this move politically, unless there's something we're not seeing. For all intents and purposes Trump is a lame duck, and almost every metric says he'll be out on his ass in 2020. Why not just hold the line until then and not risk riling his base etc? It seems nonsensical to start proceedings now.

If it's about indictment rather than conviction, it seems damned strange. This gives just enough time for the Republicans to organise a proper primary etc should they choose to dump Trump and does nothing to aid the Democrat cause. Pelosi is no fool. Democrats would surely rather face trump than a fresh face.

I think all in all, there must be some facet to this nobody can see yet. Something really strong against Trump perhaps that warrants his removal from office on the grounds of simply what's best for the country in a non partisan sense. If this is the case, he's pretty fecked. And he'll fight it hard and dirty.
 
Last edited:

Pexbo

Online influencer who has never watched Star Wars
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
45,622
Location
Brizzle
Regarding the release of the transcripts. I'm hoping that Ukraine see it in their best interests and release all transcripts and recordings they have to Shiff. Hopefully that has already happened and they are waiting on Trump and Barr releasing a highly redacted or doctored version first.
 

dumbo

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
6,832
If this was a cartoon then Trump would be Tweety Pie, his accusers would be Sylvester and the grandma would be fate, readying her handbag of inevitable disappointment.
 

Red Defence

Full Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
12,940
Location
“United stands for attacking, attractive football

Y’all need to remember that this call to Ukraine, which Trump is about to release the transcript of, was not the sole reason for the WB complaint. There were apparently numerous incidents that the WB reported, not just this. The transcript might seem innocuous by itself but combined with the rest of the complaint may just be quite damning to Trump and his cohorts. In other words don’t think “oh nothing to see here folks”. Apart from the obvious fact that it will have been edited we do need to wait until we know about all of the complaint.
 
Last edited:

Organic Potatoes

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
10,441
Location
Skillet
Supports
Colorado Rapids

Y’all need to remember that this call to Ukraine, which Trump is about to release the transcript of, was not the sole reason for the WB complaint. There were apparently numerous incidents that the WB reported, not just this. The transcript might seem innocuous by itself but combined with the rest of the complaint may just be quite damning to Trump and his cohorts. In other words don’t think “oh nothing to see here folks”. Apart from the obvious fact that it will have been edited we do need to wait until we know about all of the complaint.
Yeah, they stopped making recordings of phone calls by the POTUS a few decades back for some reason...

Probably why they’re so comfortable moving forward with releasing this ‘transcription.’
 

Red Defence

Full Member
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
12,940
Location
“United stands for attacking, attractive football
Yeah, they stopped making recordings of phone calls by the POTUS a few decades back for some reason...

Probably why they’re so comfortable moving forward with releasing this ‘transcription.’
Well we already know that Trump doesn’t like people taking notes so goodness knows where they’ve got this transcript from. It will have been sharpied though.
 

Organic Potatoes

Full Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2013
Messages
10,441
Location
Skillet
Supports
Colorado Rapids
Well we already know that Trump doesn’t like people taking notes so goodness knows where they’ve got this transcript from. It will have been sharpied though.
Phone calls with world leaders would’ve been listened in on by various people in the WH with transcripts taken at the time. How close the notes we get to what was said and whether they can be placed in the proper context would be what is in question.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
108,246
Location
Los Angeles
https://compassrosepllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/2019_0924_-Statement-Concerning-Release-of-Complaint.pdf

Statement by WB counsel.

“We await the release of the complaint in it’s totality”.

Wonder how much Barr and the WH will have redacted.
Interestingly, Barr, Pompeo, and Mulvaney all have considerable exposure here. They are playing with their own futures which may eventually cause them to have second thoughts about remaining full on sycophants.