[NinjaFletch]

No, you're not "happy to accept the argument that it's difficult" to play after being left out of the team for long time. You actually expect him to perform from minute one no matter what, when it's clear most players need to get used to the league and more importantly, some proper game time.

It took Pogba a few months to get into the game rhythm this season. It took Fred a whole season, and he was way worse than van de Beek, who is a decent player just not spectacular. And I guess that is his biggest problem, because people expected him to be Bruno replacement and he doesn't look like one at all. The question is what do we do with Donny-it doesn't seem like Ole has an answer yet.

If you want to play that game, I can put an argument into your mouth that you haven't made, too: I can't believe you think that Donny should be sold to Qarabag purple monkey dishwasher, where are they even going to get the money from ? I don't think he will go to Azerbaijan at any rate.

Wasn't that fun and productive?

Why don't you read through the argument I have made over the last few pages rather than inventing one for me? I could not have made it clearer that I'm not looking to seek recriminations against Donny or to excuse Solskjaer from having managed the situation poorly. What I have said, repeatedly, is that we don't have the evidence one way or the other to know which of those is true at the minute.

What we do know is that Donny hasn't had many minutes and hasn't been up to speed when he has played in them so it's hardly a surprise he wasn't chucked in after 30 minutes against Arsenal. I can't even being to imagine what his fan club would be saying if Solksjaer had done that and he had played poorly.

Anyway, I look forward to realising how similar the points we're making about getting used to the league and needing game time actually are.

 

[tomaldinho1]

If you want to play that game, I can put an argument into your mouth that you haven't made, too: I can't believe you think that Donny should be sold to Qarabag purple monkey dishwasher, where are they even going to get the money from ? I don't think he will go to Azerbaijan at any rate.

Wasn't that fun and productive?

Why don't you read through the argument I have made over the last few pages rather than inventing one for me? I could not have made it clearer that I'm not looking to seek recriminations against Donny or to excuse Solskjaer from having managed the situation poorly. What I have said, repeatedly, is that we don't have the evidence one way or the other to know which of those is true at the minute.

What we do know is that Donny hasn't had many minutes and hasn't been up to speed when he has played in them so it's hardly a surprise he wasn't chucked in after 30 minutes against Arsenal. I can't even being to imagine what his fan club would be saying if Solksjaer had done that and he had played poorly.

Anyway, I look forward to realising how similar the points we're making about getting used to the league and needing game time actually are.

I don't particularly think he has a fan club, he just should get more minutes to prove himself because we have a recent body of work (Ajax) that he is much better than Bruno's current form and can also cover McT (who had to go off yesterday) or Fred. If he had come on for 30mins and done nothing, he would have been no worse than Bruno, if he had come on and been a disaster I think people would have been fine to acknowledge that. It's completely reasonable to want our squad to have genuine competition for places when the depth is available.

There's a group of posters in here who seem to be so against the idea of VdB being good that they are nailing their colours to the mast despite the fact he's never played a run of games. Point is he is not a starter right now but he is a good player and could, at the very least, get regular minutes as a sub instead of running Bruno into the ground. Maybe he'll be crap but we might as well give him some playing time when there's a player on the pitch whose form has dropped off a cliff?

 

[red4ever 79]

Donny you were the chosen one. It was said that you would bring balance to the team not have Ole leave you in darkness.

All jokes aside he should be pushing for a move in the summer. Clearly not an Ole player

 

[lex talionis]

All we have is speculation as to why Ole refuses to give Donny meaningful action.

We don’t know whether Donny was forced on Ole. Or whether this was the bedding in year to prepare Donny for next season, when Pogba would be (presumably) gone. Or whether sees a problem with Donny in training. All or none of these statements could be true.

But what we do know is Donny is seeing no meaningful action. Yes, very late substitutions and cup games, but that’s it.

But we have to assume Donny believes in himself as a footballer and if that’s a valid assumption we have to believe that Donny has to be asking why he’s at a club, not exactly at the elite level of clubs like Bayern, whose manager refuses to use him at all, apart from very late substitutions. Whatever the answer may be, it won’t be very convincing.

It’s time for his agent to get to work.

 

[He'sRaldo]

We must be the only club in Europe who’d pick McTominay over VDB is ridiculous.

I initially thought it was because McTominay was a youngster as opposed to Donny, but funny enough Donny is actually younger than him.

I guess Scott just has that 'young n learning' vibe about him.

 

[Lee565]

From what I gather, we have won every game vdb has started aside from the away match in turkey but that was down to straight up amateur and naive defending. Also when he has started against a top side this season we have won both matches...

 

[MattyB1986]

Why would our board sanction a 40 mil signing? knowing how they haggle with pennies over signings we actually play. It's all quite bizarre this scenario with Donny.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

He’s played in the #6, #8 and #10 in his career at Ajax he can play anywhere in the middle of the park. I said earlier I’d understand it if our midfield was rock solid and he just couldn’t get a game but McTomibay and Matic? Come on they’ve been mediocre for far too long. Id love to see an extended run of Fred, VDB and Bruno we’d keep the ball much better, the balance of the whole side with ‘McFred’ starting is all over the place it’s 2 players doing the job of 1 man because neither are good enough to be a proper DM and shield the defence.

We must be the only club in Europe who’d pick McTominay over VDB is ridiculous.

Playing any midfield position at Ajax is very different. They're a side used to dominating possession, especially domestically. They field midfielders as fullbacks or centre-backs every game. A very different mentality is needed when playing as a holding mid for United.

The first goal vs Basaksehir away is a good example of this.
Donny is eager to score and completely neglects his defensive duties. Fred would never make this mistake and McTominay would actually have been a threat in the box. Shaw and Ole are also to blame for that goal. Shaw gets near the box, only having scored once in his entire career and Ole isn't screaming at his team in an empty stadium to have more players behind the ball.

If you look at VDB's goals, he always needs space. When he has 3 strikers and Bruno in the middle ahead of him, the box gets way too congested for Donny to make something happen. Our wingers not really being wingers does not help with this, but this is probably why he's looked better as a 10.

It might make sense to field Donny instead of a forward in a diamond. He's more likely to score than Martial in his current form, and it would allows us to play our strikers in their natural position. I could see Donny's runs and one touch passing adding a lot to Bruno's play.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Really could do with him in midfield tomorrow against Southampton’s press.

Bet we will end up going pogba/Matic again and they’ll over run us

 

[The holy trinity 68]

We must be the only club in Europe who’d pick McTominay over VDB is ridiculous.

I initially thought it was because McTominay was a youngster as opposed to Donny, but funny enough Donny is actually younger than him.

I guess Scott just has that 'young n learning' vibe about him.

They are completely different players. Scott is a ball-winning midfielder that harries opponents and has a great work ethic. He is great to put in the team if Ole wants solidarity.

We have seen nothing from VDB to suggest he should be starting games, he keeps possession well and is great at 1 touch football and giving little 1-2's but doesn't offer much offensively which is the type of player he is. He isn't a defensive player, and will only play for Pogba or Bruno and is no where near their level.

 

[Castia]

They are completely different players. Scott is a ball-winning midfielder that harries opponents and has a great work ethic. He is great to put in the team if Ole wants solidarity.

We have seen nothing from VDB to suggest he should be starting games, he keeps possession well and is great at 1 touch football and giving little 1-2's but doesn't offer much offensively which is the type of player he is. He isn't a defensive player, and will only play for Pogba or Bruno and is no where near their level.

But Scott only plays when Fred can back him up he’s the only ball winning midfielder in the league who needs a second similar player beside him, we shouldn’t need 2 defence minded midfielders playing outside of maybe games against top 6 sides.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Bet we will end up going pogba/Matic again and they’ll over run us

Such a ponderous combination, kills all my excitement about a game before its even started.

 

[AjaxNL]

When Donny was playing at Ajax with Ziyech, Ziyech was pushed to the right wing. Reasoning was that Ziyech has a lot of risk in his play; he tries to be decisive with every touch and playing him out right mitigates the risk of his frequent loss of ball possession. This worked wonders at Ajax, since Ziyech had very little defensive responsibility, had the freedom to try the decisive pass whenever he wanted and the freedom to drift around the field getting involved where he wanted.
Donny played at #10 for Ajax, in a more disciplined role, making a lot of runs off the ball and getting into dangerous positions. This suited him really well, as he did not have to be the creative outlet for the team (which he simply is not), but he did find himself involved in the final third of the play on numerous occassions, getting goals and assists.
I wonder if something similar could work for United, especially with United having a problem at RW, with Bruno (although, contrary to Ziyech who is left footed, would mean he would have a harder time drifting inside on his wrong foot). Bruno seems the kind of player that you would want to free of any defensive duties as much as possible, so he can focus on doing what he is good at. Goals/Assists/dangerous passes in the final third.

 

[No Spring Chicken]

When Donny was playing at Ajax with Ziyech, Ziyech was pushed to the right wing. Reasoning was that Ziyech has a lot of risk in his play; he tries to be decisive with every touch and playing him out right mitigates the risk of his frequent loss of ball possession. This worked wonders at Ajax, since Ziyech had very little defensive responsibility, had the freedom to try the decisive pass whenever he wanted and the freedom to drift around the field getting involved where he wanted.
Donny played at #10 for Ajax, in a more disciplined role, making a lot of runs off the ball and getting into dangerous positions. This suited him really well, as he did not have to be the creative outlet for the team (which he simply is not), but he did find himself involved in the final third of the play on numerous occassions, getting goals and assists.
I wonder if something similar could work for United, especially with United having a problem at RW, with Bruno (although, contrary to Ziyech who is left footed, would mean he would have a harder time drifting inside on his wrong foot). Bruno seems the kind of player that you would want to free of any defensive duties as much as possible, so he can focus on doing what he is good at. Goals/Assists/dangerous passes in the final third.

Thing is, Bruno's work rate is incredible. I checked out his stats the other day, he's in the top 3 in the league for presses in the final third and the middle third. The only other player in the league who presses that much across so much of the pitch is Hojbjerg, and that's his main job. So while clearly you don't want him chasing back if you can help it, it is actually a strength of his. I suspect VDB would struggle to match that level.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

When Donny was playing at Ajax with Ziyech, Ziyech was pushed to the right wing. Reasoning was that Ziyech has a lot of risk in his play; he tries to be decisive with every touch and playing him out right mitigates the risk of his frequent loss of ball possession. This worked wonders at Ajax, since Ziyech had very little defensive responsibility, had the freedom to try the decisive pass whenever he wanted and the freedom to drift around the field getting involved where he wanted.
Donny played at #10 for Ajax, in a more disciplined role, making a lot of runs off the ball and getting into dangerous positions. This suited him really well, as he did not have to be the creative outlet for the team (which he simply is not), but he did find himself involved in the final third of the play on numerous occassions, getting goals and assists.
I wonder if something similar could work for United, especially with United having a problem at RW, with Bruno (although, contrary to Ziyech who is left footed, would mean he would have a harder time drifting inside on his wrong foot). Bruno seems the kind of player that you would want to free of any defensive duties as much as possible, so he can focus on doing what he is good at. Goals/Assists/dangerous passes in the final third.

Good post. Interesting point.

Not sure if that would work at United, though.

But yes - in theory I could see Bruno working well alongside Donny as a "creative" / "disciplined" combination in some shape or form.

The way we normally play doesn't resemble any kind of Ajax style, though - so incorporating a player whose main strengths are those of a "system player" (to use a generalization), might be difficult.

 

[Bebestation]

Rashford- Bruno - Greenwood
VDB
Pogba - CDM

​

Let bruno play as a creative forward/ false 9. Let VDB play behind him as a shadow striker CAM who interchanges with Bruno.

CDM enables us to play Pogba as well.

 

[VP89]

Really could do with him in midfield tomorrow against Southampton’s press.

Bet we will end up going pogba/Matic again and they’ll over run us

Well Ole played him in the last fixture vs Southampton so lets hope he does it again!

 

[Van Piorsing]

February is here, so the EL playoff stage will require somekind of rotation... who am I cheating here, he'll play around 20 minutes this month.

 

[BlahRules]

OGS said that DVB needs to work on his physical aspect to make an impact for us and I can see where he is coming from, too many times I feel DVB had been passive in his play. An example should be looked at Wijnaldum, he has similar attribute as DVB but he has physical attribute to impose himself and make an impact.

We have to be patient with him and he will start to play more as one of the pivot midfielders.

 

[Bebestation]

If Ole did buy VDB the only reason I think he hasnt used him is to make him comfortable for rotation.

If he started off as a player who starts every game, making him drop to the subs bench will piss him off when he is not needed.

If he starts off at the bench, he will value his starts for United and hopefully get in to a rhythm once he breaks through - if he needs to be dropped then he will be used to that too.

 

[Lee565]

Rashford- Bruno - Greenwood
VDB
Pogba - CDM

​

Let bruno play as a creative forward/ false 9. Let VDB play behind him as a shadow striker CAM who interchanges with Bruno.

CDM enables us to play Pogba as well.

I think this is the way to go but more so as a proper 3 man midfield where van der beek and pogba have the understanding of when 9ne if them decides to go marauding further up the pitch the other stays in midfield. I dont see why ole hasn't tried bruno as false 9 when he has done it with the likes of mata and lingard and i can't see why bruno can't play as a false 9 when he has played as a striker for sporting and basically plays as second striker as it is now for us.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

As of now this just seems a poor signing. His lack of physicality is worrying.

 

[Bebestation]

I think this is the way to go but more so as a proper 3 man midfield where van der beek and pogba have the understanding of when 9ne if them decides to go marauding further up the pitch the other stays in midfield. I dont see why ole hasn't tried bruno as false 9 when he has done it with the likes of mata and lingard and i can't see why bruno can't play as a false 9 when he has played as a striker for sporting and basically plays as second striker as it is now for us.

Yeah the 433 is the formation that makes the best use of a false 9. I hope Ole is waiting for that CDM to appear before trying a formation like this out.

As you said VDB and Pogba with the ability to decide to go forward one at a time when sitting behind Bruno would be very nice to see as long as we have that CDM able to protect those 2.

VDB has short length quick passing and Pogba has the ability to pick out something more longer whilst bruno has that last gasp finishing or creative ability at the tip of our attack. Rashford and Greenwood can finish off the chances.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

When Donny was playing at Ajax with Ziyech, Ziyech was pushed to the right wing. Reasoning was that Ziyech has a lot of risk in his play; he tries to be decisive with every touch and playing him out right mitigates the risk of his frequent loss of ball possession. This worked wonders at Ajax, since Ziyech had very little defensive responsibility, had the freedom to try the decisive pass whenever he wanted and the freedom to drift around the field getting involved where he wanted.
Donny played at #10 for Ajax, in a more disciplined role, making a lot of runs off the ball and getting into dangerous positions. This suited him really well, as he did not have to be the creative outlet for the team (which he simply is not), but he did find himself involved in the final third of the play on numerous occassions, getting goals and assists.
I wonder if something similar could work for United, especially with United having a problem at RW, with Bruno (although, contrary to Ziyech who is left footed, would mean he would have a harder time drifting inside on his wrong foot). Bruno seems the kind of player that you would want to free of any defensive duties as much as possible, so he can focus on doing what he is good at. Goals/Assists/dangerous passes in the final third.

I'm not sure if the best way is by playing Bruno out of position just to get the best out of Donny. That's like trying to sacrifice Bruno's position, our best player, just to fit Donny into XI. It might work as cameo subs one or two games but there is question mark whether sacrificing the position where Bruno has been playing at best is a good idea or no. This is like the argument with playing Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes together all over again. I believe Donny is more of a Pogba's replacement, so when Pogba leaves the club, we will expect to see Donny more in a line up and probably also be wise to sign holding midfielder who can break up play, good in one on one situation without making cheap fouls and compose when on the ball.

 

[Water Melon]

I fully expect Pogba to leave the club come summer, which will increase Donny's chances of breaking into starting XI. In the meantime, I hope he gets used to the speed and physicality of the prem.

 

[Borys]

I think if he doesn't play today (which is very likely), we should change the title to
Donny van de Beek 2020-21 Lack of Performances

This would reflect the discussion on here much better.

 

[TheGame]

Left out of the side again. We seem to be killing his career. 'Take care of him' Van Der Saar said, we appear to be doing the opposite.

 

[Renegade]

His been told cup games and Europa only for the rest of the season surely.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Poor chap

 

[red4ever 79]

Just let him leave

 

[Shark]

He hasn't exactly impressed but it all begs the question of why Ole signed him in the first place.

 

[lex talionis]

Incredible.

I want what’s best best for United and for Donny. For God’s sake if Ole doesn’t rate him then let’s just let him go to a club which will use him.

 

[El Zoido]

He’ll play in cup games. If he impresses then he’ll work his way in to the first XI, the problem is when you get limited chances, you need to come in and stake your claim for a place, and he’s never done that.

 

[red_de_pologne]

His been told cup games and Europa only for the rest of the season surely.

Yup, unless Matic and McTominay and Pogba get injured at the same time

 

[Terranova]

I'm not sure what's worse. Him being ignored by Ole or him being ignored by his teammates when he finally plays.
He did almost nothing wrong(only the harsh yellow card), he made runs, always made himself available, always ask for the ball. But the only times he got the ball was when he dropped back to get the ball from the CB's.

And on top of that shortsighted people seem blame him for not doing anything and not the teammates who ignore him. It's getting really sad.

I mean he can't play well if he doesn't get the ball and he's not hiding. He always wants the ball, but never gets it

 

[tjb]

I'm not sure what's worse. Him being ignored by Ole or him being ignored by his teammates when he finally plays.
He did almost nothing wrong(only the harsh yellow card), he made runs, always made himself available, always ask for the ball. But the only times he got the ball was when he dropped back to get the ball from the CB's.

And on top of that shortsighted people seem blame him for not doing anything and not the teammates who ignore him. It's getting really sad.

I mean he can't play well if he doesn't get the ball and he's not hiding. He always wants the ball, but never gets it

He does nothing when he's on the ball. Blame his teammates all you want, but if you know all your teammate is going to do is pass back, why bother? He offered nothing in a game we destroyed a team in. Greenwood didn't score, but his impact was there to be seen.

 

[Polar]

Looked like Mr. anonymous, but didn’t watch the whole game.

 

[Terranova]

He does nothing when he's on the ball. Blame his teammates all you want, but if you know all your teammate is going to do is pass back, why bother? He offered nothing in a game we destroyed a team in. Greenwood didn't score, but his impact was there to be seen.

He does nothing on the ball? Do you really expect him to run across the whole pitch and score? Because the only times that he got the ball was on his own half. Any further up the pitch and he's being actively ignored.

 

[KirkDuyt]

He was more disruptive to Utd's attack than Saints' defenders. Decent showing.

 

[Red Royal]

Feel sorry for him, he os really struggling in our system, looked like he has mever trained with our guys.