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he scores a goal in a meaningless friendly = deserves to start for us. Love that logic. Give him time. Season´s long.
 

Adam-Utd

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If you actually go read what I said, you replied saying he hardly plays at 10, whereas the most important games for Ajax, he played 10...

If you again read at my previous posts, I have said we can get away with playing him in a 8 in some games at home. Ajax used to dominate games and possession so they can afford to play more attacking players.

It is obvious our team is not in a position to play such an expansive style.

The one time Donny played CM for us, we lost the game, its not a coincidence that. He was always outside the box. Go read what Ole said about Donny when he was signed, he expects him to get into the box and arrive into the box.

When was the last time you saw our 2 in midfield arrive in the box? they don't because that is not the style we play, we play with a 4 upfront who are the main creators and scorers.
Oh come on :lol: blaming VDB for Matic being completely useless is not his fault. He was probably the best player against Istanbul playing from the middle.

He clearly is capable of doing that job, but we have to find out whether he's best as a 10 or a 8.

Is he better than Fernandes? no. Is he better than Mctominay in CM? possibly in certain matches. For instance against WBA where we need quick passing, vision and fast ball movement i'd prefer him playing there than Scott.
 

VP89

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I didn't see you posting about him playing extremely well that match?
I don't post about every player in a post match thread? I dont actually always go into a post match thread. Bit of an odd take ?!
 

luke511

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Yep, he can play 8. Not 6.

Yes, because all the fans were so engrossed in how he kept the ball, do you even know what position he played against Istanbul?
Read the comments -


Also a few quotes from the Baseksehir thread:

"VDB is a baller. Intelligent player"
"No coincidence since dvb went of we can hardly string a series of passes together"
"Really harsh on VDB. He’s done well."
"Man took VDB off? Is it crack cocaine?"
"Why take off Donny. Ole hates him!"
"Why the feck is DvB off?"

Sorry but you trying to claim that VDB was partly at fault for our defeat vs Basakehir to fit your narrative is pure bullshit.
 

tomaldinho1

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Personally would start him versus WBA - no reason we can't start him and Bruno ahead of Fred against them. They're a really poor team and whilst we are hardly playing total football, I will be so disappointed if Ole sets up with the double pivot again. There's a time and place for pragmatism and starting with a defensive setup but WBA at home is not it.
 

Matt851

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Okay, so in which area is the team crying for quality? Actually, what attributes are we crying out for?

It's called squad depth and I can tell you why we spent that money.

Let me give you examples - Newcastle away, Leipzig home where we can change players and bring quality in, just because he hasnt played 90 mins in the first 10 games dont mean he wont play a big part in the season.

Secondly, you do not put a player in out of position in a team that is struggling... its poor management,.
Well we appear to be very much in need of a right winger, a centre back with pace, a right full back with some technical ability and maybe a new centre forward and a defensive midfielder who has more technical ability than mcfred.

Not arguing he wont play a part this season. My point is just that if he can only as a 10 (i havent seen enough of him to know if this is the case) then we would have been better off targetting someone more versatile or bolstering another position. Especially given that a 4231 isnt suited to every game we play anyway
 

romufc

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Oh come on :lol: blaming VDB for Matic being completely useless is not his fault. He was probably the best player against Istanbul playing from the middle.

He clearly is capable of doing that job, but we have to find out whether he's best as a 10 or a 8.

Is he better than Fernandes? no. Is he better than Mctominay in CM? possibly in certain matches. For instance against WBA where we need quick passing, vision and fast ball movement i'd prefer him playing there than Scott.
No, I am not blaming him for the loss, people talk about his box to box abilities as if he is a DM.

I really like the way Donny plays, for me he is more of a 10 than Bruno is but cannot get in because of Bruno's form.

Like you say against WBA at home, you can play him Bruno and a DM but not away to Everton you cannot.
 

romufc

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Read the comments -


Also a few quotes from the Baseksehir thread:

"VDB is a baller. Intelligent player"
"No coincidence since dvb went of we can hardly string a series of passes together"
"Really harsh on VDB. He’s done well."
"Man took VDB off? Is it crack cocaine?"
"Why take off Donny. Ole hates him!"
"Why the feck is DvB off?"

Sorry but you trying to claim that VDB was partly at fault for our defeat vs Basakehir to fit your narrative is pure bullshit.

Scott McTominay’s game by numbers vs. Everton:

100% tackles won
100% aerials won
86% pass accuracy
4/8 long passes
4 fouls suffered
4 ball recoveries
2 interceptions
2 clearances

Yet he is not good enough for Manutd.

I dont care about the comments, twitter is the worst place to make your opinion on someone. I dont need twitter 18 year olds to tell me how good Donny is.

Never have I said he is crap plus the stats you put up are they really CM who plays box to box?
 

romufc

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Well we appear to be very much in need of a right winger, a centre back with pace, a right full back with some technical ability and maybe a new centre forward and a defensive midfielder who has more technical ability than mcfred.

Not arguing he wont play a part this season. My point is just that if he can only as a 10 (i havent seen enough of him to know if this is the case) then we would have been better off targetting someone more versatile or bolstering another position. Especially given that a 4231 isnt suited to every game we play anyway
I wouldn't disagree with that, however what if it was Donny and no one or no one at all? It looks like were werent really after anyone else in the window tbf.

Sancho was the only name but we didnt even really try our hardest to get him I think.
 

sullydnl

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"The one time Donny played CM for us, we lost the game, its not a coincidence that" only makes sense if you can explain how VDB playing in midfield directly lead to us losing the game, in a way that wouldn't have occurred had VDB not been playing in midfield. Otherwise it's even less than a coincidence.
 

Borys

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When was the last time you saw our 2 in midfield arrive in the box? they don't because that is not the style we play, we play with a 4 upfront who are the main creators and scorers.
That is a good explanation of:
  • Why there is no place in midfield for Donny in current setup (basically he can't play to his strengths because it would be too risky)
  • Why he might be useful in some games when we try to break down opposition
Also, people are obsessed with van de Beek because he is so much better on the ball than McTominay*, yet seem to ignore the defensive part of midfield game. Or at least play down those attributes.

I have my concerns whether he will make a good CM, but so far Ole has been introducing him correctly.

*short passing. I have never seen him passing long ball.
 

romufc

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That is a good explanation of:
  • Why there is no place in midfield for Donny in current setup (basically he can't play to his strengths because it would be too risky)
  • Why he might be useful in some games when we try to break down opposition
Also, people are obsessed with van de Beek because he is so much better on the ball than McTominay*, yet seem to ignore the defensive part of midfield game. Or at least play down those attributes.

I have my concerns whether he will make a good CM, but so far Ole has been introducing him correctly.

*short passing. I have never seen him passing long ball.
I agree with this, not every new players should be thrown into the first team. Now when Donny comes, he knows if he does not perform, there are others in the squad waiting for his chance.

Dropping Pogba has sent a message out saying, team first. I think Ole is doing the right thing.

The passing one is crucial, Donny is a very very good link player when the ball is passed into him, like we saw against Palace and in the league cup, his first touch play is brilliant and where do you want that football? higher up the pitch.

The reasons we won more games with Fred and McTominay is not rocket science, they are combative midfielders, they allow the rest of the team to play. It really frustrates me when someone says he better than McTominay. Yes talent wise he is but in the function they both perform in the set up?

Fans need to open their eyes, instead of having this fantasy 11.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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Yeah, solid DM and VdB in midfield behind Bruno?
Then we'll be doing what we've done with Pogba for four years and wondering why we're not getting the best from him.

VdB is a number 10 and that's where he should play.

We need someone who has good defensive qualities to play in the pivot role and VdB is not that player.

The only time I'd like to see him deeper is if we're chasing a game, and even then I'd probably prefer Bruno to be dropped deeper and VdB to stay higher up the pitch.
 

EngimaMK

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Personally would start him versus WBA - no reason we can't start him and Bruno ahead of Fred against them. They're a really poor team and whilst we are hardly playing total football, I will be so disappointed if Ole sets up with the double pivot again. There's a time and place for pragmatism and starting with a defensive setup but WBA at home is not it.
This
 

Sea-Cow

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Good lad. He is still young and he just joined us, he has plenty of time to grow and to be a big part of our squad. Everyone should relax and not put pressure on him or the manager, in my opinion.
 

Borys

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I agree with this, not every new players should be thrown into the first team. Now when Donny comes, he knows if he does not perform, there are others in the squad waiting for his chance.

Dropping Pogba has sent a message out saying, team first. I think Ole is doing the right thing.

The passing one is crucial, Donny is a very very good link player when the ball is passed into him, like we saw against Palace and in the league cup, his first touch play is brilliant and where do you want that football? higher up the pitch.

The reasons we won more games with Fred and McTominay is not rocket science, they are combative midfielders, they allow the rest of the team to play. It really frustrates me when someone says he better than McTominay. Yes talent wise he is but in the function they both perform in the set up?

Fans need to open their eyes, instead of having this fantasy 11.
Absolutely. Different players, different functions. Ole has managed the squad well so far.

Then we'll be doing what we've done with Pogba for four years and wondering why we're not getting the best from him.

VdB is a number 10 and that's where he should play.

We need someone who has good defensive qualities to play in the pivot role and VdB is not that player.

The only time I'd like to see him deeper is if we're chasing a game, and even then I'd probably prefer Bruno to be dropped deeper and VdB to stay higher up the pitch.
Couldn't agree more. The bolder part is something a lot of people seem to miss.

Also, to people who say he could play in midfield with Bruno, but we just need to add and new quality DM. Well every fan grandmother and her dog knew we needed Right Winger this summer, so don't see why are they do optimistic we will get quality DM soon.
 

Lennon7

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Then we'll be doing what we've done with Pogba for four years and wondering why we're not getting the best from him.

VdB is a number 10 and that's where he should play.

We need someone who has good defensive qualities to play in the pivot role and VdB is not that player.

The only time I'd like to see him deeper is if we're chasing a game, and even then I'd probably prefer Bruno to be dropped deeper and VdB to stay higher up the pitch.
VdB is much more energetic and offers more in defence than Pogba. Plus, he’s calm on the ball and can just keep it simple. Pogba can’t play deep because he has no defensive abilities and loses the ball way too often.
 

Ajax Forever

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You have to give him time and understand he is used to a different kind of football at Ajax.

Reading some comments on him that are very harsh.

This guy got to the semi finals of the CL with Ajax playing scintillating football at times with players that most on here would consider below United level. He was playing really well in those games. Scored often. Created chances. Pressed well. Sure, sometimes he had lesser games as everyone else did.

What about Blind? Came to United, left United back to Ajax and had more succes there in the CL and EL then with United.

Sometimes we are quick to blame player x y or z, but often we need to look at the coaching and tactics used by a manager.

If Ole brought him in or the board did. They need to have a plan for him and his usage within this United team.
 
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The Boy

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I love total football analysis, some really good insights in those articles.

But I think the problem for DvB at 6 or 8 is the way Ole gets United playing. In the 4231 line up, when United attack Ole often pushes one of the full backs into midfield to guard against the counter, which means you often attack with width on just one side and that's normally Shaw and Rashford combining. DvB is best in the midfield positions when he is hitting vertical passes and for those to work you need two wingers stretching the oppos backline across the pitch. He had that at Ajax, bit not so much in this squad, as AwB often slots into midfield and Greenwood has a habit of cutting inside.

I think he was bought with expectation of Rashford on the left and Sancho on the right, could still happen!
 

Borys

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One of Van de Beek’s biggest strengths is his ability to spot vertical lanes to play into. These are the spaces created when a team plays with both wingers hugging the touchline, spreading the opposition horizontally. He looks to be direct in his play, causing the most amount of danger he can with his passes, as opposed to keeping it ticking over and retaining possession.
The explosiveness in his running means he can beat players quickly over a short distance, taking his opponent out of the game and creating a 2v1 elsewhere on the pitch.
The article says he benefits from system Ajax plays and how good every aspect of his game, including powerful runs (?). Not sure if that's not a teenager football magazine?
 

Grande

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You have to give him time and understand he is used to a different kind of football at Ajax.

Reading some comments on him that are very harsh.

This guy got to the semi finals of the CL with Ajax playing scintillating football at times with players that most on here would consider below United level. He was playing really well in those games. Scored often. Created chances. Pressed well. Sure, sometimes he had lesser games as everyone else did.

What about Blind? Came to United, left United back to Ajax and had more succes there in the CL and EL then with United.

Sometimes we are quick to blame player x y or z, but often we need to look at the coaching and tactics used by a manager.

If Ole brought him in or the board did. They need to have a plan for him and his usage within this United team.
Yes, and with most players, (at least with good planning) that plan is not based on hitting the ground running. Bruno was a Cantonaesque exception in that respect, but most good buys are phased in over a season. Finally we have players to chose from in midfield as well.

Getting a new player is almost always exciting. People (like me) are eager to see the new player, dreaming about another gem. Unfortunately, there are people who think they have been patient if they wait for two or three months before concluding wether this is a good buy or not, whereas it’s mostly stupid to do that after less than a season.

Watching Van de Beek so far has been interesting, he’s showing promise. If some of his strengths can grow into the team over the course of the next couple of seasons, I’ll be looking forward to watching that process.
 

sillwuka

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I think our fans aren't using to seeing strength in depth and that's why everyone is calling for Donny to start immediately.

If he played for Chelsea for example, fans would accept that he would be a highly favoured rotational player due to the quality they have in the squad.
 

Highfather_24

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VdB against Istanbul had a decent performance individually, but due to his drifting off the ball when we were in possession, meant we were highly susceptible to counter attacks. He doesn't hold his position, so he doesn't really suit being our #8 under current tactics, just like Pogba. Fred, McT and Matic are more natural fits. Hence, his competition is Bruno, who is probably our most undroppable player. If he wants more minutes, I think he needs to learn playing the Juan Mata role, drifting off the right.
 

11101

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Personally would start him versus WBA - no reason we can't start him and Bruno ahead of Fred against them. They're a really poor team and whilst we are hardly playing total football, I will be so disappointed if Ole sets up with the double pivot again. There's a time and place for pragmatism and starting with a defensive setup but WBA at home is not it.
I'm not sure we will. Ole is in a string of must win games at the moment. DVB is not Pogba, but leaving the double pivot behind is risky. DVB looks a tidy player so far but what he hasn't shown is directness.

If we have only Fred in a single pivot, we need somebody in there who is very good at quickly turning the ball from defence into attack. DVB might be that guy, but we don't know yet, and if your job was on the line would you risk finding out vs a shithouse team like West Brom? If we lose that it could be curtains for him. I don't think he will take the risk.
 

tomaldinho1

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I'm not sure we will. Ole is in a string of must win games at the moment. DVB is not Pogba, but leaving the double pivot behind is risky. DVB looks a tidy player so far but what he hasn't shown is directness.

If we have only Fred in a single pivot, we need somebody in there who is very good at quickly turning the ball from defence into attack. DVB might be that guy, but we don't know yet, and if your job was on the line would you risk finding out vs a shithouse team like West Brom? If we lose that it could be curtains for him. I don't think he will take the risk.
Personally I think there’s a higher risk of not winning if we go with the double pivot. Let’s not pretend WBA will be pouring men forward and playing possession football. A draw doesn’t cut it either remember.
 

Adam-Utd

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VdB against Istanbul had a decent performance individually, but due to his drifting off the ball when we were in possession, meant we were highly susceptible to counter attacks. He doesn't hold his position, so he doesn't really suit being our #8 under current tactics, just like Pogba. Fred, McT and Matic are more natural fits. Hence, his competition is Bruno, who is probably our most undroppable player. If he wants more minutes, I think he needs to learn playing the Juan Mata role, drifting off the right.
Nope, that was Matic not doing his job all game. When he's in 1 of those can't be bothered moods midfields just run through us so easily. That is why Fred is so important to us right now.
 

Ajax Forever

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Yes, and with most players, (at least with good planning) that plan is not based on hitting the ground running. Bruno was a Cantonaesque exception in that respect, but most good buys are phased in over a season. Finally we have players to chose from in midfield as well.

Getting a new player is almost always exciting. People (like me) are eager to see the new player, dreaming about another gem. Unfortunately, there are people who think they have been patient if they wait for two or three months before concluding wether this is a good buy or not, whereas it’s mostly stupid to do that after less than a season.

Watching Van de Beek so far has been interesting, he’s showing promise. If some of his strengths can grow into the team over the course of the next couple of seasons, I’ll be looking forward to watching that process.
Yeah sure, I agree with you. He needs time and if he is given time and is played in his natural position to his natural abilities, he will flourish for United I am sure of it.

Otherwise I will gladly see him return to Ajax! :)
 

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You have to give him time and understand he is used to a different kind of football at Ajax.

Reading some comments on him that are very harsh.

This guy got to the semi finals of the CL with Ajax playing scintillating football at times with players that most on here would consider below United level. He was playing really well in those games. Scored often. Created chances. Pressed well. Sure, sometimes he had lesser games as everyone else did.

What about Blind? Came to United, left United back to Ajax and had more succes there in the CL and EL then with United.

Sometimes we are quick to blame player x y or z, but often we need to look at the coaching and tactics used by a manager.

If Ole brought him in or the board did. They need to have a plan for him and his usage within this United team.
While I agree about Donny and that he has the ability to shine at Manchester United, please reconsider what you said about Blind...You do remember he won the Europa League in 2017 with.....Manchester United, right? Having one semi-final with Ajax does not make him the OG of European Competition with Ajax..
 

Ajax Forever

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Ah, yes you are right. Sorry I did not remember that. I am an Ajax fan after all.

I am not saying he is an OG of European Competition with any team for that matter. All I am saying is that fans are quick to blame players, said players move on and start to excel elsewhere and they wonder why.

Coaching, tactics, environment. It all plays the part. You can have the equivalent of 11 Ronaldos for each position and finish 6th in the table if there is no plan, no chemistry and no adaptation. That is all I meant.
 

Terranova

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As an Ajax fan (with United as favorite foreign club ofcourse) i find it weird that people think he's a 10. In my eyes(and seeing him for 100+ matches) he's no 10. He's an attack minded CM. Even in the CL years where people here say he played at 10, he didn't actually play as a 10. He was the forward most midfielder, but they played with a false nine. So he was just an attacking CM, not a 10.

But i agree with most people here, i don't get why United bought him if they weren't gonna start him and/or change the playstyle. He can be a great asset for United, even this early in his United career. But not in the way it's going now.
You can see him getting frustrated by his teammates in the few minutes he got to play, he's always ready to receive a pass, but most times his teammates won't pass the ball or just even don't see him.
 

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You have to give him time and understand he is used to a different kind of football at Ajax.

Reading some comments on him that are very harsh.

This guy got to the semi finals of the CL with Ajax playing scintillating football at times with players that most on here would consider below United level. He was playing really well in those games. Scored often. Created chances. Pressed well. Sure, sometimes he had lesser games as everyone else did.

What about Blind? Came to United, left United back to Ajax and had more succes there in the CL and EL then with United.

Sometimes we are quick to blame player x y or z, but often we need to look at the coaching and tactics used by a manager.

If Ole brought him in or the board did. They need to have a plan for him and his usage within this United team.
Or sometime a player just couldn't adapt to the PL but suited well elsewhere?

We don't know about VDB yet but Blind? Did we all watch him play? He was a good player, nice chap. Just not made for the PL. Period.
 

Ajax Forever

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Or sometime a player just couldn't adapt to the PL but suited well elsewhere?

We don't know about VDB yet but Blind? Did we all watch him play? He was a good player, nice chap. Just not made for the PL. Period.
I sincerely disagree with that statement. I think he played very well for United. He was calm, always had a good pass in his foot. Positionally he was better than any of your other wingbacks and defenders.

There is this prevalent myth in the PL where fans think a 9ft Hulk is better than a normal 6ft defender.

To my opinion he was never really appreciated at United for how good the chap actually was.
 

luke511

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I sincerely disagree with that statement. I think he played very well for United. He was calm, always had a good pass in his foot. Positionally he was better than any of your other wingbacks and defenders.

There is this prevalent myth in the PL where fans think a 9ft Hulk is better than a normal 6ft defender.

To my opinion he was never really appreciated at United for how good the chap actually was.
A lot of utd fans see Smalling and Blind as our best performing CB partnership post Ferguson, he was appreciated by the fans at least. Mourinho screwed him over massively.
 

Strelok

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I sincerely disagree with that statement. I think he played very well for United. He was calm, always had a good pass in his foot. Positionally he was better than any of your other wingbacks and defenders.

There is this prevalent myth in the PL where fans think a 9ft Hulk is better than a normal 6ft defender.

To my opinion he was never really appreciated at United for how good the chap actually was.
I beg you pardon?

He was a good player. Intelligent, calm, decent passer. Just too weak and too slow for the PL. And please don't try to rewrite history.
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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For those thinking DvB can replicate the type of performances Fred and McT give us better watch our performances this season with those two as a double pivot.

Don't get me wrong, I do think we can occasionally put him there, especially if we're chasing a game and need a more attacking CM, but its clear that Ole wants two defensively disciplined midfielders, where the onus is on our full-backs and attacking quartet to create.

Going forward, as I've said before, we need to buy another solid defensive midfielder to go with McT and Fred. We can then focus on rotating Bruno and DvB as I think Pogba will be sold.
 

Bebestation

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I beg you pardon?

He was a good player. Intelligent, calm, decent passer. Just too weak and too slow for the PL. And please don't try to rewrite history.

That 1 min is absolutely no difference to the mistakes Lindelof, Bailly, Smalling and Maguire make individually and as a unit.

No one said Blind was perfect, he was consistently targeted for his weaknesses as you pointed out with your video but his fans like me loved him for his strengths.

It was beautiful for me to watch him play.

There was no reason for Mourinho to sell a left footed CB that could make a slick quick accurate pass from deep directly to the CAM like Blind could whilst keeping or buying Jones, Rojo, Bailly or Lindelof (he is okay).

Blind was hardly a mistake waiting to happen more than any of our defenders and that is just is rewriting history aswell in my opinion.


For me he is the actual best ball playing defender we had in the post SAF era.

I'm not saying he didn't have weaknesses but consider how many times we have played 3 at the back and we could have used a left footed LCB or even a CB that brings the ball forward to CDM and makes passes.

His uses was always there and shouldnt have been sold especially when we look at the players that are still here not playing a single game for us.