[UNITED ACADEMY]

You conveniently cut out that that was one game - for seven minutes

He asked me, and I gave him what he asked for. Like I give a feck where Donny ever play before. My point was that Donny & Muller have the same style & ability and I only want to have serious discussion about that.

 

[Giggs' right foot]

He asked me, and I gave him what he asked for.

Come on... that’s like arguing Pique can play as a striker because he once was chucked up there at United, or David James being an outfield player because of that time he ran around the opposition’s box kicking air.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Come on... that’s like arguing Pique can play as a striker because he once was chucked up there at United, or David James being an outfield player because of that time he ran around the opposition’s box kicking air.

That's not the point isn't it because I don't give a feck where James or Pique or Donny ever play. Talking about position without going deep into the role they can play is lazy argument.

I'm talking about what type role we can give to Donny and my point was that Donny & Muller have the same style & ability. Muller called the role when he plays wide as raumdeuter and I believe Donny can play in the same role because they both have the same style and ability.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

@Jesper Weber Mortensen @romufc @Borys

I believe Donny can play in that role.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

He can question it, that's not a problem. But he wasn't just doing that - he likened VDB playing on the right to Lukaku playing at center back. That's what sparked the whole debate, my point being VDB operating from a wider role is not as big a jump as he thinks.

From the little I've seen of VDB so far he can be very well suited to a box-to-box role whereas Muller at 31 has found his craft as the false 9. I find the decision that a 23 year old with less experience who has operated in a variety of roles is suddenly just a Thomas Muller player and nothing else, when he offers great pressing ability, good ball carrying skills, smart positional play and operates very well in tight areas too.

If you can't see how both VDB & Muller are the same and don't know how they can operate the same way then this is where we need to agree and disagree because I know there will no progress for this discussion.

 

[Borys]

@Jesper Weber Mortensen @romufc @Borys

I believe Donny can play in that role.

I actually think this is an excellent description of Donny:

• don't take up a specific position - occupy different areas depending on situation (freedom to roam)= Mata
• no real visible strengths associated with attackers
• plays small role in build-up, moving vertically what makes him difficult to mark
• excellent timing to arrive in scoring positions

What I conclude from that, is he needs to play in a fitting environment to be effective. I don't think we best fit for Donny, and I don't think he would make much of an impact for us. Sounds just like a free-roaming second striker.

Half of people want him in deep midfield, now we've concluded he's a natural forward. It raises the question, what is he really?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I actually think this is an excellent description of Donny:

• don't take up a specific position - occupy different areas depending on situation (freedom to roam)= Mata
• no real visible strengths associated with attackers
• plays small role in build-up, moving vertically what makes him difficult to mark
• excellent timing to arrive in scoring positions

What I conclude from that, is he needs to play in a fitting environment to be effective. I don't think we best fit for Donny, and I don't think he would make much of an impact for us. Sounds just like a free-roaming second striker.

Half of people want him in deep midfield, now we've concluded he's a natural forward. It raises the question, what is he really?

Like I said before, this has been my point and I though I had strong argument not lazy argument about it. I see both players (Muller & Donny) the same like clone. His intelligent, ability to find space, movement, positioning in attack and combine with ability to press and impervious to pressure.

He can play on that right or left or centre of attacking mid, Muller called the role as raumdeuter and I think this is the role Ole should play him. So I disagree about he wouldn't be much impact for us, I think he can make impact for us in this raumdeuter role.

 

[Borys]

Like I said before, this has been my point and I though I had strong argument not lazy argument about it. I see both players (Muller & Donny) the same like clone. His intelligent, ability to find space, movement, positioning in attack and combine with ability to press and impervious to pressure.

He can play on that right or left or centre of attacking mid, Muller called the role as raumdeuter and I think this is the role Ole should play him. So I disagree about he wouldn't be much impact for us, I think he can make impact for us in this raumdeuter role.

The whole discussion was flawed because it started as "Donny can play on the right wing because Mata and Mueller can", which isn't really the case because neither of them plays in any fixed position, and certainly not on the wing. Lookup Mata heatmaps to see that he stays on the right when close to the middle of the pitch, while he starts moving around when getting closer to opposition box.

In fact the your point is he can play like Mueller (like a second roaming striker), which I agree with, just don't think it'll work for us effectively. We could also play him on the right in midfield in 4-3-3. But I still don't see any strong reason that he can play on the right wing, which was raised before by someone.

 

[romufc]

Like I said before, this has been my point and I though I had strong argument not lazy argument about it. I see both players (Muller & Donny) the same like clone. His intelligent, ability to find space, movement, positioning in attack and combine with ability to press and impervious to pressure.

He can play on that right or left or centre of attacking mid, Muller called the role as raumdeuter and I think this is the role Ole should play him. So I disagree about he wouldn't be much impact for us, I think he can make impact for us in this raumdeuter role.

Okay, let me ask you this, can Muller play box to box? Because alot of people seem to think Donny can play box to box. I think he can do a job there in certain games.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

The whole discussion was flawed because it started as "Donny can play on the right wing because Mata and Mueller can", which isn't really the case because neither of them plays in any fixed position, and certainly not on the wing. Lookup Mata heatmaps to see that he stays on the right when close to the middle of the pitch, while he starts moving around when getting closer to opposition box.

In fact the your point is he can play like Mueller (like a second roaming striker), which I agree with, just don't think it'll work for us effectively. We could also play him on the right in midfield in 4-3-3. But I still don't see any strong reason that he can play on the right wing, which was raised before by someone.

The argument is about whether he can play on the right in that 4231 formation that we are using. And my point he can because he has the same ability and style as Muller, raumdeuter.

If you watch the video I posted, raumdeuter role isn’t just about player behind striker as second striker but also from left and right, they use Muller as example and clips where Muller plays on the right. They also used Callejon at Napoli as an example of this role also operates on the right.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Okay, let me ask you this, can Muller play box to box? Because alot of people seem to think Donny can play box to box. I think he can do a job there in certain games.

I don’t care about box to box since I’m focusing on this right wing or this wide area or this right attacking mid because that’s where I want to tell people that Donny can play on the right like Muller does as raumdeuter.

 

[Borys]

The argument is about whether he can play on the right in that 4231 formation that we are using. And my point he can because he has the same ability and style as Muller, raumdeuter.

If you watch the video I posted, raumdeuter role isn’t just about player behind striker as second striker but also from left and right, they use Muller as example and clips where Muller plays on the right. They also used Callejon at Napoli as an example of this role also operates on the right.

This I agree with, but like I said, this discussion started with an idea (maybe it wasn't yours) that he can do a job on right wing, which I disagreed with. What you're suggesting is only lineup, doesn't reflect actual position (same as Mata).

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

This I agree with, but like I said, this discussion started with an idea (maybe it wasn't yours) that he can do a job on right wing, which I disagreed with. What you're suggesting is only lineup, doesn't reflect actual position (same as Mata).

If you read my first post regarding this argument (page 42 the very first post), the purpose of my post is to tell romufc that VP89 spoke random and making weak argument but I can give a stronger and better argument to tell you guys that VDB can be used on the right by using Muller as an example in my argument.

 

[BlahRules]

DVB should play similar role as Wijnaldum. He has the work rate, short passing and movement to do that role. Koman alternative to Wijnaldum was DVB.

DVB should take Pogba's role and have Fred next to him with Bruno ahead.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Like I said before, this has been my point and I though I had strong argument not lazy argument about it. I see both players (Muller & Donny) the same like clone. His intelligent, ability to find space, movement, positioning in attack and combine with ability to press and impervious to pressure.

He can play on that right or left or centre of attacking mid, Muller called the role as raumdeuter and I think this is the role Ole should play him. So I disagree about he wouldn't be much impact for us, I think he can make impact for us in this raumdeuter role.

Biggest difference between them in my opinion (and why this isn't the solution for Donny) is Mueller is deceptively rapid. In the PL especially he would struggle with that role because of our style of play - just because he is good at exploiting space doesn't mean we have to think of unique ways to integrate him into our team, we just need to improve our offensive play when in possession.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Biggest difference between them in my opinion (and why this isn't the solution for Donny) is Mueller is deceptively rapid. In the PL especially he would struggle with that role because of our style of play - just because he is good at exploiting space doesn't mean we have to think of unique ways to integrate him into our team, we just need to improve our offensive play when in possession.

Muller isn't rapid. Pace & strength are one of his weak point. Even the 2nd video that I posted above says "he's not particular fast''. VDB has the asset & intelligent for the role and we have Bruno to find him and I think he will suit with the fact that Martial likes to drop deep to get the ball which can open space in opposition defense for VDB to run to. We won't know until we give a try.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Muller isn't rapid. Pace & strength are one of his weak point. Even the 2nd video that I posted above says "he's not particular fast''. VDB has the asset & intelligent for the role and we have Bruno to find him and I think he will suit with the fact that Martial likes to drop deep to get the ball which can open space in opposition defense for VDB to run to. We won't know until we give a try.

Disagree, I have watched a lot of him and whilst he's obviously no Alfonso Davies he is fast/agile enough to play that role well. Add in that he plays for Bayern and also dovetails off the best CF in world football and I don't think it's a comparable situation. Martial wouldn't suit that role, VdB isn't fast enough (particularly in the PL) and we don't play the right style of football for it to work.

Just play him as a CM in a 3 or as one of the advanced 2 in the an inverted triangle and he'll be fine. He's a top player.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

Come on Donny! Give 'em hell!!

As an Ajax fan who basically watched every second the last couple of years.. I have no doubt Donny has it him to be a great player for United when utilizied correctly.. When he's not used in his strenghts, I can also see him fade away in mediocre underwhelming perfomances..

 

[Foxbatt]

What @Foxbatt is suggesting there is not playing a 4-2-3-1 though. He is suggesting a diamond, which I do not argue with.

However; I would make one change and have Donny as the CAM with Bruno and Fred as the CM's. Like you have said and many have said, Donny keeps it simple and moving, he is very good at receiving the ball and linking players which is better in a 10 than CM.

Bruno has shown for Portugal he can play RCM so I am not sure why he cannot play a more disciplined role for us.

Yes exactly. Mata never plays as a right winger. DVB probably can't either. But both can play as a right sided midfield player in a diamond.
The exchange of position and space between our midfield players would be much better if DVB plays instead of Mata.
I never liked this dedicated wingers now anyway. It's too regimented. DVB shows he can create space and move the ball and is much stronger than Mata. He is never going to get match fit or get used to the PL if he doesn't get to play. Playing for holland he showed that he is a quality player.

 

[Renegade]

His strength is his late runs into the box. Play him as a 6. Did we scout him or get him mixed up with De Jong?

 

[BlahRules]

His strength is his late runs into the box. Play him as a 6. Did we scout him or get him mixed up with De Jong?

He played as a box to box midfielder or advanced midfielder and played 6 at times. Never played as a 10 for Ajax nor do they play a 10.

 

[space]

Excellent today

 

[Guv77]

Bye bye Pogba

 

[LJJT]

Great display. Don’t think him playing in the midfield 2 is good defensively but he was really good. Like our new metronome today keeps it ticking

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

Quality player! Needs to start now.

 

[Volumiza]

Just a top notch performance from start to finish tonight. Worked very well with Fred and Bruno.

 

[Zoo]

Top performance

 

[acnumber9]

Definitely his best game for United. Simple but effective and quick. Still needs to get on the ball more for me. Would be man of the match were it not for Bruno.

 

[keithsingleton]

based on 90 mins football my MOM. Solid in the middle and never put a foot wrong. Hopefully starts at the weekend.

 

[AshRK]

Top performance.

 

[PoTMS]

Scholes like performance. Must start over Pogba when both available.

 

[Cloud7]

Really hope we see him over the weekend. I like this Fred-VDB-Bruno midfield.

 

[Ekeke]

Much more quality on the ball than Fred. Very nice

 

[Tarrou]

Please keep him in the side

 

[Hugh Jass]

Very good performance.

 

[Nick7]

MOTM for me.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Quality. No problem playing him and Fred in CM.

 

[TsuWave]

What a player

 

[pseudo_canadian]

The contrast between him and Pogba in terms of awareness and retaining possession is not even remotely close.

Superb performance.

 

[Borys]

He's very good on the ball. This was the first time we've seen his impact on the team.
That said, he needs more protection. We should switch to back 3 with McTominay for a try.