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2021-22 Performances


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vva

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VDB doesn't have long range passing style and outstanding energy for box to box play. Like Sancho, He will not excel in the team which doesn't have good off the ball and good link up play. I'm quite sure that he will have limited playing time when mctominay return, and probably he may leave united in the next summer if manager doesn't block the transfer at that time.
 

Lyng

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Ole's style is to stick with the players he trust and VDB isn't one of them. It's why Fred and Pogba weren't subbed off for Varane despite playing worse than VDB.
This is pretty much my only issue with Ole. He doesn't go for the intelligent choice when under pressure but trusts his favourites to much.

As soon as Donny was subbed we lost all control in midfield.
Some people want him to play like Bruno, which I don't understand. Bruno will hand you the winning goal/pass but won't ever control a game.
Donny will never give you highlights but he won't loose the ball either and often reads the oppositions plays really well.
I say we need both of them.
 

Escobar

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He was one of the better midfielders. Not that it says much but in future Ole should play him over those out of form
 

MvG

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He was a calm presence in midfield keeping the ball moving including some nice switches and progressive passes. This is like the moon compared to what we have seen lately in midfield yet people are largely slating his performance.

He was also very good off the ball putting in some quality tackles and blocks. Was growing into the game but was then wrongly hooked at halftime which conceded any control we had in midfield in the first half which should give some of yous a clue.

But since we ended up with such a poor result the narrative will be that he was poor as well. Even though we were leading and still looking pretty comfortable in the first half even after the sending off. It’s either handbags or people commenting having not actually watched the match or both.

But what’s most frustrating is that he was taken off in the first place.
 
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red4ever 79

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He was a calm presence in midfield keeping the ball moving including some nice switches and progressive passes. This is like the moon compared to what we have seen lately in midfield yet people are largely slating his performance.

He was also very good off the ball putting in some quality tackles and blocks. Was growing into the game but was then wrongly hooked at halftime which conceded any control we had in midfield in the first half which should give some of yous a clue.

But since we ended up with such a poor result the narrative will be that he was poor as well. Even though we were leading and still looking pretty comfortable in the first half even after the sending off. It’s either handbags or people commenting having not actually watched the match or both.

But what’s most frustrating is that he was taken off in the first place.
He had a good first half. Was better than the other midfielders. Seems to get a lot of flak on here but the reality is he has never been given a run of matches in which to start
 

stu_1992

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Not a great game to judge him in last night with the way things panned out, however I would have left him on and taken off one of Ronaldo, Fernandes or Pogba after the red. Not him or Sancho. I felt Van De Beek would do a better job at holding onto the ball than any of the other 3 which is what we needed at that point. I really do think we would have a better go at getting a result after the red had he stayed on, and had the substitutions been better themselves.
 

IncyWincySpider

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I really wanted him to do well because I feel bad for him not getting game time, but I think he just doesn't fit into our system anywhere. It's like he's playing a different game to everyone else in the team. I think he should move on for his own sake in January.
 

MadMike

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Not a great game to judge him in last night with the way things panned out, however I would have left him on and taken off one of Ronaldo, Fernandes or Pogba after the red. Not him or Sancho. I felt Van De Beek would do a better job at holding onto the ball than any of the other 3 which is what we needed at that point. I really do think we would have a better go at getting a result after the red had he stayed on, and had the substitutions been better themselves.
Sancho had been shocking though, keeping him on and subbing Ronaldo off (our only striker on the pitch and goal threat) would have been an atrocious decision. We would have had absolutely no outlet and just packed with defenders and midfielders. By the time the ball reached the midfield we would have no one to play it to and surrendered it to the opposition, inviting them to come again.

Subbing Sancho for Dalot was right. Only argument could have been bringing Lindelof on at RB instead perhaps. But then taking VDB off for another defender and dropping Bruno deeper weakened the midfield further and gave them the initiative. Pogba and Bruno both had a shocker in CM giving the ball away time and again. Pogba should have been hooked for Matic. Get Matic to shield the defence, let Fred and VDB be the midfield pressers with Bruno supporting Ronaldo. 4-3-1-1.

Instead of that we wound up with a 5-3-1 from the start of the second half, with Ronaldo alone up top, Pogba and Bruno in the middle and only Fred trying to do work in CM. Our retention went to shit.
 

lostcauz

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Not a great game to judge him in last night with the way things panned out, however I would have left him on and taken off one of Ronaldo, Fernandes or Pogba after the red. Not him or Sancho. I felt Van De Beek would do a better job at holding onto the ball than any of the other 3 which is what we needed at that point. I really do think we would have a better go at getting a result after the red had he stayed on, and had the substitutions been better themselves.
So let’s say he gets the ball, YBs are chasing him down like they did to us every time we had the ball, we basically have everyone in our own half, then what?
Pass the ball backwards for it to get pumped forward? Repeat.
I don’t think it mattered who played in midfield.
 

Lyng

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So let’s say he gets the ball, YBs are chasing him down like they did to us every time we had the ball, we basically have everyone in our own half, then what?
Pass the ball backwards for it to get pumped forward? Repeat.
I don’t think it mattered who played in midfield.
They tried several times before the sub and he didnt loose the ball, in fact he stopped their plays on several occasions.
The fact is our midfield presence completely dissapeared when he went of.
 

Adam-Utd

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I really wanted him to do well because I feel bad for him not getting game time, but I think he just doesn't fit into our system anywhere. It's like he's playing a different game to everyone else in the team. I think he should move on for his own sake in January.
I don't really see how people can say this :lol:

It's like they can't watch a game for themselves and just go with what everybody else says.

What exactly did DVB do wrong? he had a fine first half, if anything he was one of our most consistent players.
 

IncyWincySpider

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I don't really see how people can say this :lol:

It's like they can't watch a game for themselves and just go with what everybody else says.

What exactly did DVB do wrong? he had a fine first half, if anything he was one of our most consistent players.
Well, I'm actually one of the bloke's fans. Like I say, I really wanted him to do well. Did he do anything wrong? No, not much, but nor did he do much particularly well. Against that level of opposition it was a perfect opportunity for him to see a lot of the ball by picking it up off the centre backs at every opportunity, just to actually be seen with the ball at his feet, so that his teammates get used to the idea that he is part of the team because often it looks as though they don't know who he is or what he's for, and it's obvious the manager feels the same way.

But more often than not he was farther up the pitch with a YB player between him and Fred or AWB or Lindeloft or whoever had the ball in the deeper position, and basically took himself out of contention for the pass. What for? He wasn't getting on the end of any through balls and on the odd occasion when he makes a run nobody picks him out because the rest of the team aren't on the same wavelength as him. Nobody will play triangles with him.

He played a couple of crossfield balls to Shaw which were quite good and tried a Pogba style through ball from deep that didn't work out, but obviously Donny himself thinks his best position is farther up the pitch. But the role he's trying to play up there is a role the rest of the team aren't looking for. It's like he turns invisible or something and nobody in a United shirt can see him. I don't see that changing. Basically, he's in the wrong team.
 

largelyworried

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Thought he was alright yesterday, did nothing of note but you wouldn't expect that of a player in that position so early in a game. Honestly it was nice just to have another midfielder in that space alongside Fred and I thought he looked pretty comfortable there. I thought he looked like he'd be more careful in possession than some of our other players. In that position he's not going to be getting many assists or goals so its harder to judge his contribution in a short spell. McT is still ahead of him but he looked like he might do a job over the season in that position.
 

EdinburghDevil

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For me Donny has a lot of quality but probably isn't best suited to our style of play. I think he was brought in on the assumption Pogba was leaving either last summer or this and he probably would have had it not been for Covid.

I thought he controlled midfield well last night in the 1st half. I'd like to see him get a run of 5 or 6 games ahead of Fred personally. I don't think that will happen under Ole.
 

Adam-Utd

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Well, I'm actually one of the bloke's fans. Like I say, I really wanted him to do well. Did he do anything wrong? No, not much, but nor did he do much particularly well. Against that level of opposition it was a perfect opportunity for him to see a lot of the ball by picking it up off the centre backs at every opportunity, just to actually be seen with the ball at his feet, so that his teammates get used to the idea that he is part of the team because often it looks as though they don't know who he is or what he's for, and it's obvious the manager feels the same way.

But more often than not he was farther up the pitch with a YB player between him and Fred or AWB or Lindeloft or whoever had the ball in the deeper position, and basically took himself out of contention for the pass. What for? He wasn't getting on the end of any through balls and on the odd occasion when he makes a run nobody picks him out because the rest of the team aren't on the same wavelength as him. Nobody will play triangles with him.

He played a couple of crossfield balls to Shaw which were quite good and tried a Pogba style through ball from deep that didn't work out, but obviously Donny himself thinks his best position is farther up the pitch. But the role he's trying to play up there is a role the rest of the team aren't looking for. It's like he turns invisible or something and nobody in a United shirt can see him. I don't see that changing. Basically, he's in the wrong team.
It was a scrappy game against a team really up for it with a boistrous crowd. Literally none of our other players did anything fancy apart from Bruno with the assist.

He did his job in central midfield fine. The main role is to keep the ball moving, get it forwards as much as possible and win the ball back when we lose it. He did that job. We didn't lose this game in midfield.

I'm not sure what people expect of him to be honest, it seems like you want him to pick the ball up in central midfield, dribble the whole team and score? :lol:

It's shades of the criticism Pogba used to get when playing the same position, people expect fancy/special work from a position that isn't asked to perform that role.

As you mentioned, he's already starting to adjust his passing game to more long balls which people said "he doesn't have in his locker". People just need to relax, he plays 1 game in a month and expect miracles whenever he does get a chance.
 

Mercurial

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His stats were not bad first half, he attempted 4 long passes and completed 4 in 45 min. (Fred did 3 and completed 2 in 90min). He has a 92% passing accuracy. Half the passes were on opposition half. When he was taken off we had a very hard pressure on the defense. I think he is judged too hard and somewhat unfair.
 

noodlehair

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He didn't play badly at all and shouldn't have been subbed off unless it was for another midfielder, which would have been pointless.

I feel sorry for him really. He's never going to get regular games in any of the forward positions, and he's never going to get a run of games in central midfield to see if he can actually cut it there, unless Ole starts to understand what a midfield is, which at this point there's no logical reason to think will ever happen.
 

Litch

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His stats were not bad first half, he attempted 4 long passes and completed 4 in 45 min. (Fred did 3 and completed 2 in 90min). He has a 92% passing accuracy. Half the passes were on opposition half. When he was taken off we had a very hard pressure on the defense. I think he is judged too hard and somewhat unfair.
Stats weren't bad but please that first half shouldn't be be the indicator either way of whether he's better than what we have.
 

Adam-Utd

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His stats were not bad first half, he attempted 4 long passes and completed 4 in 45 min. (Fred did 3 and completed 2 in 90min). He has a 92% passing accuracy. Half the passes were on opposition half. When he was taken off we had a very hard pressure on the defense. I think he is judged too hard and somewhat unfair.
Agreed.
Stats weren't bad but please that first half shouldn't be be the indicator either way of whether he's better than what we have.
He's certainly no worse either - this performance shows he should be getting more minutes. Ole needs to give him a proper chance to see if he genuinely can step up into this role. If not then fine let him leave, but he needs a proper go at it first.

He played no worse than Matic would have, he didn't stand out like a player who didn't belong. IMO for a CM he did all the basics well, the flashier stuff will come.

People in this thread used to criticise him because he wouldn't hit a long ball, now he's switching the play way more often. Clearly he is adjusting and learning in training considering he barely plays.
 

Litch

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Agreed.
He's certainly no worse either - this performance shows he should be getting more minutes. Ole needs to give him a proper chance to see if he genuinely can step up into this role. If not then fine let him leave, but he needs a proper go at it first.

He played no worse than Matic would have, he didn't stand out like a player who didn't belong. IMO for a CM he did all the basics well, the flashier stuff will come.

People in this thread used to criticise him because he wouldn't hit a long ball, now he's switching the play way more often. Clearly he is adjusting and learning in training considering he barely plays.
Step into the role? I think he's a good footballer but because people are so fixated on him playing and that he's the answer to something people have convinced themselves is a problem. Whether we like it or not, Fred and Scott play yesterday, we don't lose than game. Not based on any bias, based on their win percentage in CL. There is a much bigger picture, that VDB even at his best can't resolve.
 

The White Pele

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He did ok. Quite tidy with his passing but did play some risky sideways balls. Still not combative enough for my liking but did try and get stuck in and made a couple of good tackles and a block.

Unlucky to be taken off and I don’t think that change helped us at all.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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Hours later and I still don’t understand this sub.
He was actually looking decent in a role we’ve not really seen him in and one where we’re short of a player. He was keeping it simple and being disciplined positionally. Would have been ideal in there with Fred for the second half.

Feel for him today to be honest.
Exactly this, I think Varane should've come on for Pogba, and someone who can run and drag defenders for Bruno (Greenwood for e.g) and Fred+VdB in the middle of the pitch to allow the team to defend better from the midfield and spring counter attacks when a chance presents itself.
 

Siorac

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He did ok and so should he be, he's a good footballer. But please let's not turn this into a vintage Carrick performance.
It wasn't but keeping it simple and disciplined is precisely what we would have needed with ten men. Replacing him with Varane meant we gave up on the midfield entirely and resigned ourselves to hang on for dear life for the entire second half.
 

Lyng

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Step into the role? I think he's a good footballer but because people are so fixated on him playing and that he's the answer to something people have convinced themselves is a problem. Whether we like it or not, Fred and Scott play yesterday, we don't lose than game. Not based on any bias, based on their win percentage in CL. There is a much bigger picture, that VDB even at his best can't resolve.
If Donny wasnt subbed of we wouldnt have lost either.
 

Adam-Utd

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Step into the role? I think he's a good footballer but because people are so fixated on him playing and that he's the answer to something people have convinced themselves is a problem. Whether we like it or not, Fred and Scott play yesterday, we don't lose than game. Not based on any bias, based on their win percentage in CL. There is a much bigger picture, that VDB even at his best can't resolve.
Well that's complete nonsense frankly. We didn't lose the game at half time did we?
 

tomaldinho1

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VDB doesn't have long range passing style and outstanding energy for box to box play. Like Sancho, He will not excel in the team which doesn't have good off the ball and good link up play. I'm quite sure that he will have limited playing time when mctominay return, and probably he may leave united in the next summer if manager doesn't block the transfer at that time.
Didn’t he complete 4/4 long range pases including that one to Shaw way out wide? That’s not even his strength but he can do it. VdB has become this mythical idea of hope but the truth is the system we play is too basic offensively, we don’t need a new DM or CM or anything before we fix the root cause, we need to address the way our midfield operates. There have been so many threads on this for years now and we are armchair fans - the fact it hasn’t changed and we can still see it is shocking.
 

Dve

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Hours later and I still don’t understand this sub.
He was actually looking decent in a role we’ve not really seen him in and one where we’re short of a player. He was keeping it simple and being disciplined positionally. Would have been ideal in there with Fred for the second half.

Feel for him today to be honest.
Maybe not his fault, but someone needs to remind you that we looked terrible the last 10 minutes of the first half after Bissaka got sent off, and I saw nothing suggesting that Donny was going to save us the game. Honestly, we looked more comfortable after the break.
 

Borys

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The phrase "he was average/ nothing special" is used as a criticism, while I think it makes him look decent. How many midfielders in United can be labeled in such way?
Fred? Poor form from the start.
Pogba? Plays well every second game when not pressed.
Matic? Poor.
McTominay? Had a great game then got injured, not enough to rate him.

I want to point out, he had two decent games - one alongside Fred yesterday, and one with Matic against Everton, both in midfield two. It's a good sign for the future, we can't really judge van de Beek now, he plays serious football once per month.

In my opinion he is no worse then Fred like I said previously. Also, I don't see why some people would already write him off. It's true he doesn't excel at anything, but he also doesn't have glaring weaknesses like Fred and Pogba do, so it should be enough for a supporting midfielder role at United this season. He should definitely get more chances in midfield. We desperately need a plan B, can't always rely on McFred.

I really wanted him to do well because I feel bad for him not getting game time, but I think he just doesn't fit into our system anywhere. It's like he's playing a different game to everyone else in the team. I think he should move on for his own sake in January.
This comment isn't valid anymore since he was moved to midfield. It was true for Danny the AM, not so for Danny the CM. He's much more suited to deeper midfield role.
 

Denis Irwinning

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Step into the role? I think he's a good footballer but because people are so fixated on him playing and that he's the answer to something people have convinced themselves is a problem. Whether we like it or not, Fred and Scott play yesterday, we don't lose than game. Not based on any bias, based on their win percentage in CL. There is a much bigger picture, that VDB even at his best can't resolve.
We were winning when he left the pitch ffs, what are you talking about.
 

Dve

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Sancho had been shocking though, keeping him on and subbing Ronaldo off (our only striker on the pitch and goal threat) would have been an atrocious decision. We would have had absolutely no outlet and just packed with defenders and midfielders. By the time the ball reached the midfield we would have no one to play it to and surrendered it to the opposition, inviting them to come again.

Subbing Sancho for Dalot was right. Only argument could have been bringing Lindelof on at RB instead perhaps. But then taking VDB off for another defender and dropping Bruno deeper weakened the midfield further and gave them the initiative. Pogba and Bruno both had a shocker in CM giving the ball away time and again. Pogba should have been hooked for Matic. Get Matic to shield the defence, let Fred and VDB be the midfield pressers with Bruno supporting Ronaldo. 4-3-1-1.

Instead of that we wound up with a 5-3-1 from the start of the second half, with Ronaldo alone up top, Pogba and Bruno in the middle and only Fred trying to do work in CM. Our retention went to shit.
5-3-1 didn´t work, while 3-5-1 might have - with the same changes made. But we were unable to get hold of the ball and hence pressed back into a 5-3-1, whether that was the idea or not.
 

Denis Irwinning

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Maybe not his fault, but someone needs to remind you that we looked terrible the last 10 minutes of the first half after Bissaka got sent off, and I saw nothing suggesting that Donny was going to save us the game. Honestly, we looked more comfortable after the break.
We had no possession after the break so how you conclude that we were better is strange.
 

Litch

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Well that's complete nonsense frankly. We didn't lose the game at half time did we?
Bit rude. Nope cause games never are. Maybe it's me but I'm looking at a bigger picture than the fixation on VDB. If he played every week, it would change nothing cause the issues are much deeper.
 

VanDeBank

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We had no possession after the break so how you conclude that we were better is strange.
We were defensively suspect after the red card and we defended well after the break.
As soon as Donny was subbed we lost all control in midfield.
No we didn't, we looked like we were about to concede after the red in the first half. Our defensive shape improved after we set up shop.
We were winning when he left the pitch ffs, what are you talking about.
You're saying this as if we didn't score with 11 men and then being down to 10 for the remainder and Lingard's brain fart had nothing to do with us losing.
But sure it was the VDB sub that cost us. We lost after he got subbed off right? :rolleyes:
 

Dve

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We had no possession after the break so how you conclude that we were better is strange.
We had no possession in the last 10 minutes of the first half neither, but after the break we at least looked more solid defensively. Until their goal, Young Boys had some toothless attempts from distance and that was pretty much it.
 

Adam-Utd

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Bit rude. Nope cause games never are. Maybe it's me but I'm looking at a bigger picture than the fixation on VDB. If he played every week, it would change nothing cause the issues are much deeper.
We're talking purely about DVB, not deeper issues.

You stated we wouldn't have lost if Mctominay played instead, so that means DVB was the problem when he clearly wasn't. He wasn't even on the pitch when we conceded :lol: bigger picture indeed.
 

elmo

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Maybe not his fault, but someone needs to remind you that we looked terrible the last 10 minutes of the first half after Bissaka got sent off, and I saw nothing suggesting that Donny was going to save us the game. Honestly, we looked more comfortable after the break.
Might have to do with the fact that Fred and Pogba were both being useless in this game but sure, it's VDB's fault despite outplaying them.