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VP89

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He hasn't been as good as posters in here claim. Far from it. Versus West Ham in the Carabao he was okayish at best, but in here same claimed MOTM which is just bias.

If he was as good as he is made out to be, he would play. Ole has pressure on him to win matches, if he had a better CM he would play him.
That's not true, because it's based on an assumption that Ole can select his team well more often than not, which he doesn't.

The overrating he gets on here is purely bias and has no root in reality. It's Bailly all over again.
There's no overrating. It wasn't a bad shout to name him as MOTM in a match against West Ham where his peers were either average or below average. His ability to carry the ball out better than his central midfield peers and forward thinking puts him in a position to offer better balance to the side. Ole has made constant errors in throwing game control out the window by putting average performers in the middle (and of late, this includes Pogba). The cry to see VDB given a proper run in midfield isn't being biased or overrating the player, but knowing that he's capable of better performances than what his colleagues have shown when deployed at the role. And yet, his colleagues get many more bites at the cherry than he has.

I don't dislike the guy, but from what I've seen he ain't any better than the once we've got and shouldn't be playing more than he already his.

Maybe he needs more time to adapt, Fred struggled with the same and got a bit better, maybe that's the case with Donny too.
Regardless of his individual trajectory, his relative performance to his peers does not warrant feeding off scraps, which is the point most the posters are making when defending him.
 

yipthatman

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The more important question is, who is the better player, DVB, Donny or VDB? I can't make my mind up to be honest.
 

#07

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For me, I just think it doesn't matter if he plays 100 or 10,000 minutes here - he fundamentally doesn't fit.

He's not a defensive midfielder who sits in front of the backline and screens the CB's (like a Matic/Rice style); he's not an intercepting/tackler who's up and down the field (like Kante/Herrera/Gueye); he's not a central midfielder who can spray the ball around from deep (like a Jorginho) -- and even further up the pitch he's not a no.10 who dictates the flow of the game like Bruno does.

The most comparable midfielder I see to van De Beek is honestly his failed predecessor - Davy Klaassen. Or, maybe, Aaron Ramsey at Arsenal. A midfielder who doesn't really have a set position and his best work is done off the ball; leaving that responsibility to others (Ziyech and Frenkie at Ajax) as he attempts to make penetrating runs in behind.

Where does he fit in our team with a skillset like that? He doesn't!
I think this is one of the fairest summations of the Donny situation and makes you wonder: 'Why did we buy this player?'

If you wanted to be generous, you would say Donny at his best its like a Dutch Thomas Muller. He does his best stuff in and around the box, finding space, arriving late onto passes and scoring goals. That role does not exist in our current set up. Its not even really required.

I've said elsewhere on the CAF, for me, if you're going to play 4-2-3-1 you need the kind of balance that Bayern has in the pivot. One screening midfielder who can start your attacks, like Kimmich, and one box to box guy who adds a bit of muscle alongside it, like Gortezka. Donny doesn't fit into either box. He's not the only one. Our midfield has been poorly constructed over several transfer windows. However, sadly, he's not the one to fix it either. He will not turn into Michael Carrick. No matter how hard we all want him to.

Fair enough. He should be allowed to leave. Even if we keep him he'll never become the player we need him to and he'll always be behind Bruno as a #10.

We really need to stop buying players as 'options' and start buying players that suit a clear idea within our system. Berbatov was right to criticise the club for making a signing just to assuage the fans.
 

Ali Dia

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#freedonny

Baffling signing if true. Although benefit of the doubt he was signed to take pogbas place. I’d actually play him instead of Pogba in games where we need more disciplined performance. Poor management by Ole either way. Fairly cringey stuff all round. He should have just been sold in the summer if he was going to manage him like this. We are going to lose a lot of value by hanging on for the extra year or selling in January. In fact if he wants to leave in January you know it’ll be a crap loan.
 
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HailtotheKing

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Bellion 3 season 1600 minutes total in the prem.
Kleberson 2 season 1200 minutes
Djemba Djemba 2.5 seasons 1600 minutes
Donny 1 season 500 minutes

I would say its extremely close between them all. So no, that's not the difference....
Nice. Do you have the minutes for the first season they were here? Just curious to compare. Hilarious though if Donny goes after 1 season and we kept bellion for 3 and Djemba Djemba for 2.5 and Kleberson for 2. Man I hope Donny doesn’t go in Jan before we’ve even had a chance to see if he could work.
 

HailtotheKing

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At the end of the day, for me this is not about whether VdB got shafted by Ole. For me how Ole handled VdB situation is a microcosm of Ole managerial flaws.


it’s absolutely this. Any decent manager would have played Donny by now. He’s excelled with Matic and whenever he’s come on he’s been decent. Not set the world on fire but decent, while Fred in the opening games without McTominay has been pants and now McTominay has joined him in the pants department. He’s the unluckiest player I’ve ever know . Probably coming on and then Telles gets injured. And he can’t replace him like Fred can. But at the same time, why didn’t he start instead of McTominay against Villa. He was MOTM against West Ham and earned his place. And Scott needed the rest. Even if he loves Scott, dumb to play him for almost every minute of 3 games in close succession. It seems the only risks Ole takes is risking players injury or in the case of Rashford, shortening his career. I hate how stubborn and risk averse Ole is.
I fear the only way Donny gets a chance is if someone gets injured and he’s forced to play him. But then knowing Donnys luck, he’ll get injured too just like he did with Pogba. Guy can’t catch a break.

He should play with Matic against Everton. He’s been great playing them but let’s see.
 

-Supreme-

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is Donny (& Amad) really the Manager's signings regardless of what Ole actually had us to believe?

Ole mentioned that the new players were all approved by him before joining the club, but I have my doubts if that's really the case.

I do wonder if the club's transfer committee has decided against selling Donny.
 

HailtotheKing

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Someone shared this on another forum. For those who think Donny is shit and can’t offer us more than McTominay or Fred.

 
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city-puma

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We need to be patient on the current situation. If he makes sufficient effort and changes, he will get the chance and shine. This is a team sports. Individual has to adapt to the team foremost.
 

luke511

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He's a better footballer than McTominay in pretty much every department so no wonder he's tearing his hair out. Solskjaer goes on about wanting all rounded midfielders playing in the double pivot yet plays our 2 least technically capable CMs as first choice whilst VDB doesn't get a sniff, it's a joke.
 

BusbyMalone

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Him leaving (preferably in January) is best for all parties. It was a transfer that obviously didn't work for whatever reason. Was he signed with the expectation that Pogba was going? Who knows. I can only think that was the case, because otherwise he just doesn't fit into our system, so it leads to the question of why bother signing him.

It is a little frustrating from a fan's perspective because I do think he's a good footballer, and while he may be shoehorned into a CDM position, he's certainly a better footballer than Fred. Saying all that, he didn't exactly light up the game anytime he played. Although I did think he played alright the other day when he started, but clearly Ole doesn't see it. I can only imagine that he's not doing it in training, also. Whatever you think of Ole, surely if he was smashing it in training he would be in the first team.

Anyway, it's a bit sad it didn't work out, but i that's how it goes sometimes. I wouldn't necessarily put huge blame on either party. It's not the first time a transfer hasn't worked out. I do find it weird how some fans have almost turned against him and almost relish when he plays bad, as a response to other fans who want him to do well and play more. It's a weird behavior
 

HailtotheKing

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I don't dislike the guy, but from what I've seen he ain't any better than the once we've got
He ain’t better than the shit McTominay and Fred are serving up right now?

Sure, Fred was great a season and a half ago and McTominay was alright. But they’re both playing shit right now. Surely if someone is playing crap you replace them and you give someone else’s a go. That’s what having a squad is all about.You keep everyone sharp and on their toes so the players playing know if I don’t play well I’m out and the players not playing are like if I’m doing well in training and second team then I’m in.

Isnt that how it works?

McTominay has been shite these last three games. Even worse against Villa. Yet Ole takes Pogba off and brings on Matic. Cool, we needed control and composure. But then instead of bringing Donny on to play in Pogba’s position, he moves McTominay.

It’s just bullshit at this point.
 
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Ali Dia

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We need to be patient on the current situation. If he makes sufficient effort and changes, he will get the chance and shine. This is a team sports. Individual has to adapt to the team foremost.
I think the main problem is that he’s still fundamentally an attacking midfielder. That’s where he thrives and what he can really add to the team. Late runs into the box and taking up similar positions to Bruno. It probably would have been fine if Pogba left but now you have a situation where we need him to be a box to box or a sitter and he’s been trying to develop his game and his physique to something that doesn’t really suit him. I have a feeling it’s all going to be a waste of time in the end. I do think he should be getting more minutes but I’m not seeing who you would pair him with and say yeah that’s a really good solid midfield now. If McT can get games I don’t see why Donny can’t but I’m thinking it’s because he can’t win the ball or pressure the centre all that well. That’s the only thing I can think of.
 

1988

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Can totally understand why he'd want to move on. Solskjær has taken the fecking piss on him. Wasted two seasons in a club where he wasn't offered the opportunity to prove his talent. I'd be raging if i was him.
 

Real Name

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He's a better footballer than McTominay in pretty much every department so no wonder he's tearing his hair out. Solskjaer goes on about wanting all rounded midfielders playing in the double pivot yet plays our 2 least technically capable CMs as first choice whilst VDB doesn't get a sniff, it's a joke.
Not sure about pretty much every department part.
 

Matthew84!

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I honestly don't see what people see in him, he's slow, can't tackle and certainly doesn't chase back, he plays a few side ways passes,
Would suit a team that passes all game and doesn't get challenged or pushed of the ball.
No reasonable fan can say he suits this team, least when Matic comes on he makes an improvement to the team,
Sell him in Jan and buy someone useful, Bissouma or Phillips would be a massive improvement on what VDB has done.
 

R'hllor

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The moment player thats not playing or properly being used as a means to have a go at manager, those that are deep in manager`s corner, turn on a player regardless of reality and suddenly he is an enemy, so weird.

Then again we saw same shit under JM.
 

Hugh Jass

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is Donny (& Amad) really the Manager's signings regardless of what Ole actually had us to believe?

Ole mentioned that the new players were all approved by him before joining the club, but I have my doubts if that's really the case.

I do wonder if the club's transfer committee has decided against selling Donny.
Yea i was thinking the same. I think as well the Pogba situation is being decided not by Ole.
 

Sviken

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This is how I feel too.

In my opinion he got bought as our 2nd CAM as a back up to Bruno when Pogba looked like leaving but he didn't leave - so currently he is our 3rd CAM; his probable best position.

Ole still is trying to keep him because, well pogba is still looking like he is leaving but prefers to use Pogba whilst he is here because he is more creative for our forward line.
You don't buy a 40m player just for him to be sitting on the bench as a reserve option. The reality is that DVB was probably not an Ole signing, same as Bruno, or Varane or any player Ole has got. The reality is that we have a competent management now in terms of transfers, but we have a very limited manager who has no spine to tell "no" or tell the management what players he likes because it's his dream job and he wants to stay here forever, if possible. People mentioned how risk averse and negative he has become since getting the United job full time and that's the absolute truth. He doesn't rate Donny because Donny won't run around like a headless chicken for the balls. Donny is a player in the mold of Pep or Ten Hag, managers who are expressive and want their midfield to be technically sound first, to dominate and dictate the game. Fred and Scottie are players in the mold of Mourinho and David Moyes where physicality, "desire" and running matters more.

This is the simple truth. It has nothing to do with Donny's abilities or whatever, Ole is just deathly afraid of making changes because of his fear of losing his job if things go wrong. Which is why in most matches we are set up like we're playing against prime Barcelona.
 

UnitedSofa

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Its not about you Ole :rolleyes:
it was part of an extended quote:

"I manage a squad full of international footballers, competitive footballers who want to make a difference, want to play. They all want to be on the pitch, of course they do,"

"Donny was ready to come on [against Villarreal], as all the players should be. I've probably been a substitute more than anyone in this club and you have to be ready all the time.

"I've not been very happy a few times, but that's just a decision the manager makes. Alex (Telles) was coming off as a left-back and Fred did that job well, so I understand the frustration.

"Every player is keen to play. That's got to be built into energy and some determination for when you get on and then show me. That is not just Donny, that is all the players."


If we're going to be successful together, we know that we need a positive energy," the United boss added.

"We can't have any sulkers, but Donny has never affected his team-mates negatively.

"As soon as I see players affecting the team negatively that's a different scenario and I'll probably be a little bit firmer."

 

L1nk

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Yeah but the problem is Ole, he seems to be the only one you aren't rotating in, that's why he's sulking, whilst players like Fred get rewarded for 0/10 performances.
 

luke511

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Not sure about pretty much every department part.
VDB's better at passing, positioning, shooting, on par with tackling, better first touch and vision, more press resistant, transitions from defence to attack quicker. McTominay has a driving run in his locker that I haven't seen from VDB so he has that over him at least.
 

HBFSTR00

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Someone shared this on another forum. For those who think Donny is shot and can’t offer us more than McTominay or Fred.

He’s a good player but there’s no way he will play like in the video here at United.
We just don’t play the way Ajax does, their players are all on the same wavelength. Amazing to watch.


Its not about you Ole :rolleyes:
Honestly I’m sick of hearing Ole speak, I use to love it but now I think he sounds exactly like a politician. (maybe even worse..)
 

Sviken

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Its not about you Ole :rolleyes:
Ole is taking the piss with this. He was a starter numerous times for us. Furthermore, when he was a sub it was usually other players like Yorke/Cole performing much better or nagging injuries preventing him to cement a place. It's not the same situation as Donny who has two donkeys in front of him and still can't get a lick of a minute, nor is he plagued by injuries.. I don't think any one of us here would complain about Donny getting minutes if our midfield was made of Carrick and Scholes, but how can you not be frustrated when players obviously performing a lot worse than him are being given chances time and time again while Donny can't even get 5 minutes in most games.
 

VP89

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it was part of an extended quote:

"I manage a squad full of international footballers, competitive footballers who want to make a difference, want to play. They all want to be on the pitch, of course they do,"

"Donny was ready to come on [against Villarreal], as all the players should be. I've probably been a substitute more than anyone in this club and you have to be ready all the time.

"I've not been very happy a few times, but that's just a decision the manager makes. Alex (Telles) was coming off as a left-back and Fred did that job well, so I understand the frustration.

"Every player is keen to play. That's got to be built into energy and some determination for when you get on and then show me. That is not just Donny, that is all the players."


If we're going to be successful together, we know that we need a positive energy," the United boss added.

"We can't have any sulkers, but Donny has never affected his team-mates negatively.

"As soon as I see players affecting the team negatively that's a different scenario and I'll probably be a little bit firmer."

I saw the presser. Its just a stupid response to be honest.

Hes drawing pointless parallels and basically just saying" I've got a squad of internationals ". Well no shit.
 

OleBoiii

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Someone shared this on another forum. For those who think Donny is shot and can’t offer us more than McTominay or Fred.

Not that impressive considering it's a highlight video from the Dutch league.

But more importantly: I have no doubt that he's more lethal inside the box than McTominay and Fred. But that's not what we need from him.
 

MinGin

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You don't buy a 40m player just for him to be sitting on the bench as a reserve option. The reality is that DVB was probably not an Ole signing, same as Bruno, or Varane or any player Ole has got. The reality is that we have a competent management now in terms of transfers, but we have a very limited manager who has no spine to tell "no" or tell the management what players he likes because it's his dream job and he wants to stay here forever, if possible. People mentioned how risk averse and negative he has become since getting the United job full time and that's the absolute truth. He doesn't rate Donny because Donny won't run around like a headless chicken for the balls. Donny is a player in the mold of Pep or Ten Hag, managers who are expressive and want their midfield to be technically sound first, to dominate and dictate the game. Fred and Scottie are players in the mold of Mourinho and David Moyes where physicality, "desire" and running matters more.

This is the simple truth. It has nothing to do with Donny's abilities or whatever, Ole is just deathly afraid of making changes because of his fear of losing his job if things go wrong. Which is why in most matches we are set up like we're playing against prime Barcelona.
Maybe DVB is bought to replace Pogba, but Pogba's situation is not completely controlled by OLE but higher management. DVB is not good as a single DM in physical, then he need to compete to Pogba or Burno. Maybe that is why his situation embarrassing.
 

Ahmer Baig

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Well, there were better strikers than Ole at the time. With Donny, Fred & Scott aren't better than him yet they still get first pick ahead of him EVERY TIME!
 

Real Name

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VDB's better at passing, positioning, shooting, on par with tackling, better first touch and vision, more press resistant, transitions from defence to attack quicker. McTominay has a driving run in his locker that I haven't seen from VDB so he has that over him at least.
Have to admit I havent seen any of that thus far.
 
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I saw the presser. Its just a stupid response to be honest.

Hes drawing pointless parallels and basically just saying" I've got a squad of internationals ". Well no shit.
I fully sympathise with Donny - but once a player makes a negative gesture in public against their Manager, the Manager has to nip that in the bud straight away. Goes for any Manager at any club.

Ferguson always said that keeping control of the dressing room was the most important thing for him to do.

If Ole just lets this slide with Donny, or plays Donny in the next game then it's a signal to all the players that of they kick up a fuss in public they too might get what they want.

Ole had to address this and slap the player down in public, the only way. Donny isn't stupid either, he's just at the point where he's rather destroy what's left of the relationship with the Manager so he gets a move asap.