[Telsim]

Unavailable once again. What even is his injury or is it just an excuse?

 

[lex talionis]

Not to be contrary, but why? He's shown basically nothing to imply he's worth a start and he's clearly boy showing enough in training. Why would we want to start him?

I come from the school of thought that believes that if you’re going to spend 40m plus 125k/week on a player, you give that player a chance to prove himself on the pitch. There is nothing a player can prove when he only comes on in the 85th minute once a month.

But my point is broader than that. Bruno is an excellent attacking midfielder in a counterattacking mode, but much less so when we dominate possession. We’re facing a side on Thursday that we should destroy with possession and scoring chances. Donny should start in Bruno’s place (and Fred for Eriksen and Casemiro for McTominay, btw) and be given a chance to prove everyone here right that the only thing Donny excels at is shitting his pants. If he does shit his pants against a side from Cyprus then there we have it and we offload him in January as most here wish. But what if, should he be given a start at least against a lowly Cypriot side, he puts in a commanding performance? What would be the harm in finding out we actually, against all expectations, find out that we have a decent footballer in Donny Van De Beek?

 

[Champ]

I come from the school of thought that believes that if you’re going to spend 40m plus 125k/week on a player, you give that player a chance to prove himself on the pitch. There is nothing a player can prove when he only comes on in the 85th minute once a month.

But my point is broader than that. Bruno is an excellent attacking midfielder in a counterattacking mode, but much less so when we dominate possession. We’re facing a side on Thursday that we should destroy with possession and scoring chances. Donny should start in Bruno’s place (and Fred for Eriksen and Casemiro for McTominay, btw) and be given a chance to prove everyone here right that the only thing Donny excels at is shitting his pants. If he does shit his pants against a side from Cyprus then there we have it and we offload him in January as most here wish. But what if, should he be given a start at least against a lowly Cypriot side, he puts in a commanding performance? What would be the harm in finding out we actually, against all expectations, find out that we have a decent footballer in Donny Van De Beek?

Probably because Donny dominating a team from Cyprus wouldn't tell us a lot.

You've said it yourself, we should be dominating the game, we are expected to be commanding and are clear favourites to win the game.
Donny would therefore be expected to dominate, so by him achieving that we wouldn't have gained anything from it, other than he can perform against relative minnows.
If indeed he did perform poorly, as he has done numerous times previously, then that wouldn't look to favourably upon him.

 

[MadDogg]

Yeah we truly pissed around £70m up the wall on him & Amad, that could have gone towards another CM or a ST but no we are clueless

£54m. Amad was only £19m, with about the same in add-ons which I highly doubt have been activated yet. It's not that big a fee and there's still time for him to be well worth it.

VDB's £35m was obviously more of a waste (once again I doubt the extra £5m add-on has been activated) and should have been used much better.

 

[lex talionis]

Probably because Donny dominating a team from Cyprus wouldn't tell us a lot.

You've said it yourself, we should be dominating the game, we are expected to be commanding and are clear favourites to win the game.
Donny would therefore be expected to dominate, so by him achieving that we wouldn't have gained anything from it, other than he can perform against relative minnows.
If indeed he did perform poorly, as he has done numerous times previously, then that wouldn't look to favourably upon him.

True, if Donny can't dominate a team from Cyprus then he must be jettisoned for a smaller club, perhaps in Italy or France. But if he can dominate a team from Cyprus then there's at least hope he can be useful against the West Hams and Villas of the world.

We've got a bit of a problem, which is that we tend to overplay certain players even when they're clearly fatigued or unfit and our collective final third performances suffer as a result. This is particularly true of Bruno, whom we've run into the ground over the last 18 months or so. (It's also true of Rashford and Maguire, although the issue with those two is that Ole rushed them back far too soon from injury and they sufferered mentally as a result.) It's early in the season and Bruno shouldn't be suffering from fatigue, and of course we had the long delay between matches, but if we play him twice a week through the end of the season we're only fukking ourselves as the season progresses and we elevate the risk of losing Bruno for must-win games in March and April.

But going back to Donny, surely it must be acknowledged that no player can perform to whatever their potential is -- whatever it may be -- if he's only brought on in the 85th minute once a month. If he shits his pants against Omania then we will know for all time that there is no hope for him at Old Trafford. But if he acquits himself well then maybe we can bring him on against clubs like West Ham and Villa and if he shits his pants against them then we can move him on to a club in Italy or France. But what if he performs well against clubs like West Ham and Villa? Now we have an option to work with should something happen to Bruno. Yes, we already have Eriksen but he's worked out quite nicely for us in a deeper role.

 

[Champ]

True, if Donny can't dominate a team from Cyprus then he must be jettisoned for a smaller club, perhaps in Italy or France. But if he can dominate a team from Cyprus then there's at least hope he can be useful against the West Hams and Villas of the world.

We've got a bit of a problem, which is that we tend to overplay certain players even when they're clearly fatigued or unfit and our collective final third performances suffer as a result. This is particularly true of Bruno, whom we've run into the ground over the last 18 months or so. (It's also true of Rashford and Maguire, although the issue with those two is that Ole rushed them back far too soon from injury and they sufferered mentally as a result.) It's early in the season and Bruno shouldn't be suffering from fatigue, and of course we had the long delay between matches, but if we play him twice a week through the end of the season we're only fukking ourselves as the season progresses and we elevate the risk of losing Bruno for must-win games in March and April.

But going back to Donny, surely it must be acknowledged that no player can perform to whatever their potential is -- whatever it may be -- if he's only brought on in the 85th minute once a month. If he shits his pants against Omania then we will know for all time that there is no hope for him at Old Trafford. But if he acquits himself well then maybe we can bring him on against clubs like West Ham and Villa and if he shits his pants against them then we can move him on to a club in Italy or France. But what if he performs well against clubs like West Ham and Villa? Now we have an option to work with should something happen to Bruno. Yes, we already have Eriksen but he's worked out quite nicely for us in a deeper role.

But the thing you are missing here is the reason he only gets fleeting moments.

If a manager who knows Donny very well doesn't trust him then what does that say?

There's a reason he isn't starting, my guess is down to what ETH has said many times before about how he wants United to play. He mentioned time and time again that he wants players to be brave on the ball, that isn't Donny's game.
At Everton he played simple 5 yard passes majority of the time, barely taking a risk and could most definitely not be called brave on the ball.
He is like that with us too, which is fine but not when your manager is calling for brave ball players.

As I say, that's just a guess, but there is a reason why several managers haven't trusted Donny, and it isn't just a case of throwing him in and seeing what happens unfortunately.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Sell him to Ajax in January

 

[sglowrider]

His confidence is shot, not physical enough for the league and is a system's player who seems quite rigid to adapt. If he finds the right club, he would probably shine again. But certainly not at United.

He needs to be asking to leave -- the club has not been aggressive enough to rid itself of passengers. One of the biggest disappointments in the history of the United. Falcao included.

 

[Pickle85]

I come from the school of thought that believes that if you’re going to spend 40m plus 125k/week on a player, you give that player a chance to prove himself on the pitch. There is nothing a player can prove when he only comes on in the 85th minute once a month.

But my point is broader than that. Bruno is an excellent attacking midfielder in a counterattacking mode, but much less so when we dominate possession. We’re facing a side on Thursday that we should destroy with possession and scoring chances. Donny should start in Bruno’s place (and Fred for Eriksen and Casemiro for McTominay, btw) and be given a chance to prove everyone here right that the only thing Donny excels at is shitting his pants. If he does shit his pants against a side from Cyprus then there we have it and we offload him in January as most here wish. But what if, should he be given a start at least against a lowly Cypriot side, he puts in a commanding performance? What would be the harm in finding out we actually, against all expectations, find out that we have a decent footballer in Donny Van De Beek?

The player has to give the manager a reason to play him. ETH isn't just going to say 'I should give him a game because we spent s lot of money on him, regardless of the fact that I'm seeing nothing in training to justify it's, is he? The fact is that manager after manager has deemed him not up to it. If that's the case I don't want him played for the sake of it, regardless of who the opposition is.

 

[Zen86]

I can only think it must be an attitude problem with him? He’s technically able enough and by all means a decent player. For him to have had so few minutes in a squad in as much disarray as ours has been, where there haven’t really been any nailed on starters, is quite bizarre.

 

[Jericho]

Sell him to Ajax in January

Doubt they'd want him. His former Ajax manager doesn't even play him.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The player has to give the manager a reason to play him. ETH isn't just going to say 'I should give him a game because we spent s lot of money on him, regardless of the fact that I'm seeing nothing in training to justify it's, is he? The fact is that manager after manager has deemed him not up to it. If that's the case I don't want him played for the sake of it, regardless of who the opposition is.

Then the solution is to sell him, no? Don't understand why we've held onto him for so long if it was obvious right away to management that he wasn't good enough.

 

[Pickle85]

Then the solution is to sell him, no? Don't understand why we've held onto him for so long if it was obvious right away to management that he wasn't good enough.

Agreed, he should have been gone a long time ago.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Is there a player you actually forget still plays for us more then this bloke?

He genuinely is never an option in my mind

 

[Stack]

Just sell him already

 

[Foxbatt]

He is injured

 

[RedRonaldo]

£54m. Amad was only £19m, with about the same in add-ons which I highly doubt have been activated yet. It's not that big a fee and there's still time for him to be well worth it.

VDB's £35m was obviously more of a waste (once again I doubt the extra £5m add-on has been activated) and should have been used much better.

I always thought Amad fees was reportedly 25m +15m add-ons at that time, but it could be on Euros.

But don’t forget we also bought Pellistri for 10m (pounds or Euros?) in same summer. So added all that up it’s around 64m+ wasted on 3 players that are not even needed on the bench.

Let’s say if we are clever we could have spent the same amount of money on Diaz and Alvarez.

 

[Devil81]

His career collapse has been incredible.

Bet he wishes he stayed at Ajax.

 

[jimmyb2000]

Sell him to Forest - he's the Dutch Lingard

 

[bringbackbebe]

He is injured

Any idea how long he's expectated to be out?

 

[fergiewherearethou]

He is becoming the dutch Phil Jones.
If ETH does not resurrect him, no one will.

 

[crossy1686]

Put him out of his misery and at least loan him out again.

He'll have to go back to Holland now, no one in any other league is taking a punt on a bloke who hasn't played football for 3 years.

 

[Telsim]

Any idea how long he's expectated to be out?

Before the Nicosia game Ten Hag said he isn't injured any longer, but is lacking fitness and will also have to fight for his place in the squad, same as AWB. Remains to be seen if that's true or it was just a way to say they are shit. But it's not looking good for Donny. I'm hoping that at long last he gets sold if he isn't going to be used.

 

[Lay]

How was he at Everton?

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Not to be contrary, but why? He's shown basically nothing to imply he's worth a start and he's clearly boy showing enough in training. Why would we want to start him?

Because its impossible to say he's useless until you see it. Obviously we dont see whats happening in training but he must be absolutely shite to not even get a look in. Which is weird considering how highly rated he was, the fact he has 19 caps for the Netherlands, and was one of ETHs key cogs in his Ajax team before.

 

[The Corinthian]

I’m certain he’ll go back to Ajax and we’ll get a reasonable fee for him.

 

[ThomasEmil]

Is there a player you actually forget still plays for us more then this bloke?

He genuinely is never an option in my mind

says a lot when Phil Jones exceeds you in top-of-mind contests

 

[Waynne]

Yet another passenger just going along for the ride.
Honestly forgot this guy plays for us.

 

[Bobski]

How was he at Everton?

Bang average.

 

[lex talionis]

Truth is, Donny isn't good enough to displace Bruno or Eriksen but he's too good to be a long term squad player for us. Best if we sell him to a club in Italy or Spain in January.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Where the feck is this guy?

 

[Foxbatt]

Where the feck is this guy?

Injured.

 

[arthurka]

He was according to some going to shine under ETH. Guess it's hard to polish turd.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Where the feck is this guy?

Our new Phil Jones

 

[Cee90]

Strangest signing for years.

 

[Ayoba]

Where the feck is this guy?

Keeping Tony martial busy in the treatment room.

 

[Bebestation]

He reminds me of Bebe, the way we never really saw him.

 

[kirk buttercup]

Where the feck is this guy?

I honestly forgot he is in our squad . ( can't say plays for us because he doesn't)

 

[Nou_Camp99]

He's got the ability on the ball for this league but he doesn't have the athleticism at all. Looks like a school boy up against men. Time to sell.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

He was according to some going to shine under ETH. Guess it's hard to polish turd.

There's no performance to base this on. Let's see what happens when he's back from his injury, I'm sure otherwise he would have had more game time - especially in the Europa instead of Eriksen playing every game.