Donny Van De Beek

[Sjaakmeoff]

His story is sad but has a happy ending.

Spoiler

Van der Meyde was married, a relationship from which he had two daughters.

In November 2012, following the publication of his biography Geen genade (English: No Mercy), Van der Meyde gave a series of media interviews, including with The Times in England, in which he admitted to a long term series of personal problems: after a difficult first year in Milan he spent a long time on the bench in his second year, and began drinking. Offered the chance to join AS Monaco at the end of the season his wife, who liked to keep animals, rejected the prospect of living in an apartment, so he moved to Everton. Injured upon arriving, he played regularly for a period after regaining fitness, before getting injured against Manchester United in rehabilitation for six months, after his newly born daughter was hospitalised for an equal period, he again turned to alcohol.

In his second year at Everton, Van der Meyde's wife and daughters returned to the Netherlands to enable his youngest child to gain more hospital treatment with family support. He then began an affair, which after denying this for a period to his wife, was discovered after she paid a private detective to follow him; this resultantly lead to his divorce, and also a break-up with his girlfriend.

After having his contract terminated with Everton at the end of the fourth season due to recurring injury, personal problems, and falling out with manager David Moyes, Van der Meyde stayed resident in Liverpool for a year. Moving in with a friend he began a downward spiral of drink, excessive gambling and drug taking, including cocaine.

Realising his now depressive state, Van der Meyde agreed with his agent to return to Amsterdam, who negotiated a training agreement with former club Ajax. This allowed him to turn around his life, and regain contact with his ex-wife and daughters.

On 24 May 2014, Van der Meyde refereed the Lingerie World Cup, which the Netherlands won on home soil

hahaha, he's doing ok now. He has a quite popular youtube channel now called Bij Andy in de auto (in the car with Andy), where he drives around with (ex)football players, artists and actors. Half an hour of pubtalk per show.

 

[Kaglish10]

The fact that you didn't see him build up play is comical. There were to many runners for them. Alli basically played as a second striker(basically standing by the other defender) while the wide men also made inside runs. Losing the first ball all the time in those conditions won't end well, hardly something to blame a holding mid for.

Alli was making runs from the midfield. I saw one moment when an Ajax player was on Eriksen who was about to pass to Alli who was already making a run behind but rather than Frenkie focus on Alli runs, he went to Eriksen who was already being marked while Alli was already making his runs. He's rather drawn to the ball instead of the player.

I posted Tonali's individual touches Vs Leece clip on Pellegrini thread and you could see in 2.47, 3.39, 3.56 mins of the said clip that he never lost his man. He was always by the opposition's central attacker whenever the attacker was making his runs even before he got the ball. I didn't see Frenkie do that. He was just charging all over the pitch. Sometimes, you would see him charging from his position to combat Spurs' fullback on the wing while the middle was left exposed. I even saw de beek mark Alli's runs at one time and that was never his job. It's unfortunate the coach told Beek to always stay upfield whenever Ajax had the ball because I feel he should have been moved deep to help Ajax control the midfield because Van de Beek is actually a playmaker unlike Frenkie. Frenkie's spatial awareness is basically zero.

I saw Van de Beek against us in the Europa final and he looked every inch of a playmaker. In fact, the Ajax fans would testify to the fact that they have looked much more threatening with one of Frenkie/Schone alongside Beek in the central midfield this season.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

hahaha, he's doing ok now. He has a quite popular youtube channel now called Bij Andy in de auto (in the car with Andy), where he drives around with (ex)football players, artists and actors. Half an hour of pubtalk per show.

I watched the ones he had with Tadic, Dolberg and Angelino. He kept saying that at Everton him Arteta and Pineear were the only ones who knew how to play Football the rest were kick and rush.

 

[Sjaakmeoff]

I watched the ones he had with Tadic, Dolberg and Angelino. He kept saying that at Everton him Arteta and Pineear were the only ones who knew how to play Football the rest were kick and rush.

And he's right.

But, the ones in English aren't that funny because of...well, his bad English.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Aye the Tadic one was linked here the other day

 

[Kaglish10]

is this me? I love love love the guy. just don't think he's united quality nor as good as Frenkie de Jong. Also your "had high hope" is then still based on his sub appearance in the EL final? He's played as a 10 for like two seasons now.

Van de Beek played as a no 8, no 6 and 10 last season. I watched his individual touches against standard Liege and I think he started that match as a no 6, he was really really good, far better than whatever Frenkie has managed so far. His stats as a no 6 backed it up that he's a forward thinking passer who's got better passing range than Frenkie.

You don't think he's good enough for us but you also thought Depay would be good as a winger for us but I never did after seeing him play on the wing for PSV and the Dutch team. In the forum I was in then, I wasn't on board with his signing and eventually after we had got him signed and he had failed, I had opined he should be tried as a striker to compete with Rashford for the striker role because of his off the movement and positioning. Many people had even clashed with me then because they had preferred Martial to compete with Rashford in the striker role whereas I said Rashford and Depay had better off the ball movement. That's by the way. https://www.nairaland.com/871307/official-manchester-united-fan-thread/2807#44811898

Anyway, Inter fans thought the same with Pirlo because he didn't look good as a SS for them but in the end, he became a central midfield sensation at Milan and Juventus.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Van de Beek played as a no 8, no 6 and 10 last season. I watched his individual touches against standard Liege and I think he started that match as a no 6, he was really really good, far better than whatever Frenkie has managed so far. His stats as a no 6 backed it up that he's a forward thinking passer who's got better passing range than Frenkie.

You don't think he's good enough for us but you also thought Depay would be good as a winger for us but I never did after seeing him play on the wing for PSV and the Dutch team. In the forum I was in then, I wasn't on board with his signing and eventually after we had got him signed and he had failed, I had opined he should be tried as a striker to compete with Rashford for the striker role because of his off the movement and positioning. Many people had even clashed with me then because they had preferred Martial to compete with Rashford in the striker role whereas I said Rashford and Depay had better off the ball movement. That's by the way. https://www.nairaland.com/871307/official-manchester-united-fan-thread/2807#44811898

Anyway, Inter fans thought the same with Pirlo because he didn't look good as a SS for them but in the end, he became a central midfield sensation at Milan and Juventus.

Haha Mad Winger is back

Your name on that other site gives up the game.

 

[Kaglish10]

Haha Mad Winger is back

Your name on that other site gives up the game.

Who's this mad winger people keep referring to me? I'm not him. I don't even know him. I will search for him though.

 

[Kaglish10]

I searched for him and saw some post that opined that madwinger was a Japanese who had thought Kagawa was better than Hazard? Well, I never did. Even some of my post on the forum I was in then, was about me defending and lauding Hazard several times eventhough he doesn't play for us. Wouldn't madwinger dislike Van Gaal for moving Kagawa from the club?

That's by the way, this is about Van de Beek, not Kagawa. I already posted some Ajax fans opinion on him as a central midfielder and many had praise for him in that role and had wanted him to replace Schone at that time. Why Erik Ten Hag couldn't have played both Van de Beek and Frenkie in the central midfield is something beyond reason. He could have moved Tadic or Ziyech to the no 10/SS role, if he needed someone scoring clutch goals from the centre role badly. I dislike wasting the talent of young players by moving them around, especially in a position that isn't the best for them. Even Klassen had more touches as a no 10 for Ajax than Van de Beek these days.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Van de Beek played as a no 8, no 6 and 10 last season. I watched his individual touches against standard Liege and I think he started that match as a no 6, he was really really good, far better than whatever Frenkie has managed so far. His stats as a no 6 backed it up that he's a forward thinking passer who's got better passing range than Frenkie.

Ok I watched that game in the stadium and you're right it was one of the few games we played with a Donny-Frenkie-Ziyech midfield which was beautiful. He didn't start it as a no.6 though, he played in a "pivot" alongside De Jong, with Ziyech at 10. One of the travesties of this season is that we didn't get a full season of that midfield tbh

You don't think he's good enough for us but you also thought Depay would be good as a winger for us

I did? I think I was fairly positive about Depay at the time, though nowhere near some people, but could you show me a message of mine on here about Depay?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

De Beek is bang average. I'm confident the fullness of time will prove me correct on this assertion.

 

[Kaglish10]

Ok I watched that game in the stadium and you're right it was one of the few games we played with a Donny-Frenkie-Ziyech midfield which was beautiful. He didn't start it as a no.6 though, he played in a "pivot" alongside De Jong, with Ziyech at 10. One of the travesties of this season is that we didn't get a full season of that midfield tbh



I did? I think I was fairly positive about Depay at the time, though nowhere near some people, but could you show me a message of mine on here about Depay?

That's not the one I talked about though. The game I was talking about is the one below. How far Ajax have improved with their players. Just look at the players in the team then. This is really funny to me.

I had thought you were part of the crew that lauded Depay. Apologies for assuming you were one.

 

[Kaglish10]

Only if Peter Bosz had stayed and had not gone to Dortmund. Van de Beek was his replacement for Schone in the central midfield.

That's my only problem with Erik Ten Hag. He should stop stalling Beek's talent.in the SS role. I really want to see how far he would grow as a central midfielder.

 

[Kaglish10]

De Beek is bang average. I'm confident the fullness of time will prove me correct on this assertion.

He's not bang average. He's a quality central midfielder who's been underutilized as a SS but despite this, he's been good in the SS role and was arguably Ajax best player in the CL.

When Modric was deployed as a no 10 under Mourinho at Madrid, he was really awful, let alone to be deployed as a SS. Just imagine Frenkie in the SS role and tell me how he would do in Beek's place?

 

[izec]

He's not bang average. He's a quality central midfielder who's being underutilized as a SS but despite this, he's been good in the SS role and was arguably Ajax best player in the CL.

When Modric was deployed as a no 10 under Mourinho at Madrid, he was really awful, let alone to be deployed as a SS. Just imagine Frenkie in the SS role and tell me how he would do in Beek's place?

Van de Beek hasnt got the abilities Modric/De Jong have, thats why he sacrificed him there in the SS role. If you cant see that, than the discussions are pointless. He hasnt got the elite technical abilities, the passing and playmaking, the feel to run the game. Or as Xavi would say, the space-time concept. He can play a nice pass every now and then and puts in a shift, but he hasnt got it. He is decent, but i dont understand your hype.

 

[Kaglish10]

Van de Beek hasnt got the abilities Modric/De Jong have, thats why he sacrificed him there in the SS role. If you cant see that, than the discussions are pointless. He hasnt got the elite technical abilities, the passing and playmaking, the feel to run the game. Or as Xavi would say, the space-time concept. He can play a nice pass every now and then and puts in a shift, but he hasnt got it. He is decent, but i dont understand your hype.

This is quite funny because that's his best attribute. Frenkie isn't even a playmaker to begin with..

Van de Beek was moved to the no 10 role because he was the only one out of the three midfielders (himself, Frenkie and Schone) that could play as a no 10 after Klassen left. His noses for goal, movement and mobility make him apt for the role.

There's nothing wrong with Van de Beek's techniques. He's more visionary and has got better passing range than Frenkie. That he doesn't go on mazy dribble runs like Frenkie often does, doesn't make him less technical than Frenkie. He's got this gangly run on him due to his slender built and non stocky leg (tiny long legs) unlike Frenkie and De Ligt who's got stocky legs but it doesn't stop him from doing his thing.

 

[Member 93275]

He's not bang average. He's a quality central midfielder who's been underutilized as a SS but despite this, he's been good in the SS role and was arguably Ajax best player in the CL.

When Modric was deployed as a no 10 under Mourinho at Madrid, he was really awful, let alone to be deployed as a SS. Just imagine Frenkie in the SS role and tell me how he would do in Beek's place?

Don't botter, I already got my coat.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Not really understanding why Frenkie's ability seems to put down Donny's abilities down.

I've seen more from van de beek in this seasons CL than I have the whole United career that Ander Herrera has had.

I'd be happy if we could snack him up for a good price, would be a good improvement on the average rubbish we had before by atleast being of the same standard never mind having the ability to improve as he does.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

That's not the one I talked about though. The game I was talking about is the one below. How far Ajax have improved with their players. Just look at the players in the team then. This is really funny to me.

oh so you're still talking about a)2.5 years ago, b)stats, and c) a game Ajax played a b-team because they had already qualified after 4 games - without being aware of this fact.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

This is quite funny because that's his best attribute. Frenkie isn't even a playmaker to begin with..

Van de Beek was moved to the no 10 role because he was the only one out of the three midfielders (himself, Frenkie and Schone) that could play as a no 10 after Klassen left. His noses for goal, movement and mobility make him apt for the role.

There's nothing wrong with Van de Beek's techniques. He's more visionary and has got better passing range than Frenkie. That he doesn't go on mazy dribble runs like Frenkie often does, doesn't make him less technical than Frenkie. He's got this gangly run on him due to his slender built and non stocky leg (tiny long legs) unlike Frenkie and De Ligt who's got stocky legs but it doesn't stop him from doing his thing.

this is also inaccurate seeing as we didn't play with a 10 in the first place at all in Klaassen's last season (only one brief season under De Boer). Vd Beek is less technical than Frenkie.

 

[Kaglish10]

oh so you're still talking about a)2.5 years ago, b)stats, and c) a game Ajax played a b-team because they had already qualified after 4 games - without being aware of this fact.

That was one of the first step of Bosz having plan for Van de Beek as a no 6.

Van de Beek looked far better as a 19 yrs old than the likes of Klassen you compared him to and this already ridiculed your poor comparison because there's nothing similar between the two players apart from the fact that Van de Beek is playing in a stupid no 10 role today.

Van de Beek, De Ligt were the only players who looked far above the others in the match against standard Liege. Younes, Dolberg, Klassen were all first team players who started the first leg match, after which they managed to win by 1-0 and these same players played in the second leg against standard Liege but Van de Beek was head and shoulder above them all. Only Sanchez, Onana, Veltman, Schone and Traore were the big names missing in the game.

That aside, squawka stats backed the fact that Van de Beek was better than Frenkie as a no 6 for Ajax. it backed the fact that he's got better passing range, forward thinking passes than Frenkie in the few games he played as a no 6 for ajax.. He certainly didn't look out of place when he came on for Schone against us in the Europa final match.

I had posted Ajax fans' comments on Van de Beek as a no 6, let me repost it and look at the emboldened. Definitely, some Ajax fans think the same way as I and believe Van de Beek should be better deployed in the midfield than as a no 10. I agree with these set of Ajax fans and not you.

Ajax fans comments on him as a no 6 below (I used Google translation):

*Dutch*

*Opvallend detail gister: Toen Schöne inviel, ging Lasse spelen op de halfpositie en niet meer op "6". Lijkt me ook verstandiger. Lasse op "6" kan echt niet meer en ik vond VD Beek daar wel goed gister (en eigenlijk altijd). Brengt veel meer power, loopt verdedigend meer dicht en is opbouwend sneller en beter dan Schöne*

English translation:

Striking detail yesterday: When Schöne came in, Lasse (Schone) started playing in the half position and no longer on "6". Also seems better to me. Lasse on "6" is really not possible anymore and I thought VD Beek was good there yesterday (and actually always). Brings a lot more power, is more defensively close and is constructively faster and better than Schöne.

*Dutch*

*Het middenveld staat verdedigend ook beter met Donny op 6. Schone is een liability als het op verdedigen en omschakelen aankomt. Ik vind Donny heel uitgenast in het hinderlijk onderbreken van een (potentiële) tegenaanval. Het is vloeken in de kerk, maar daarin vind ik hem bijna op z'n Van Bommels acteren. Ik begrijp wat je daarmee bedoelt.

English Translation:

Midfield is defensively better with Donny at 6. Schone is a liability when it comes to defending and switching. I think Donny is very much in the mood for interrupting a (potential) counterattack. It is cursing in the church, but I find it almost acting like Van Bommels.

*Dutch*

*Ik vind Schöne tekort komen in de topwedstrijden dit seizoen. Kan het fysiek niet meer aan en is voetballend niet direct een meerwaarde als je onder druk komt. Vind VD Beek in de topwedstrijden het beter invullen*

English translation:

I think Schöne is inadequate in the top competitions this season. Can't take it anymore physically and playing football is not immediately an added value if you come under pressure. Find VD Beek in the top matches the better fill

*Dutch*

*Goed om er nog een jaar bij te houden als ervaren jongen met veel voetballende kwaliteiten maar zal in de basis plaats moeten maken voor vd Beek of De Jong*

English translation:

Good to keep it up for another year as an experienced boy (Schone) with many footballing qualities, but will have to make way for vd Beek or De Jong in the base.

*Dutch*

*Donny is veel meer de voetballer en mist de kwaliteiten op de positie waar hij nu staat die Ajax juist nu zo nodig heeft, imo zou binnen het huidige systeem de plek van Schone de zijne moeten zijn. Door de huidige (veld)bezetting op het middenveld krijgt ook Ziyech minder ruimte om zijn echte kwaliteiten tentoon te spreiden omdat hij en Donny in een te kleine ruimte opereren en te vaak voor dezelfde bal gaan. Volgens mij was het Kieft die daar gister ook een voltreffer opmerking over maakte.*

English translation:

Donny is much more the football player and lacks the qualities in the position where he is now (no 10) that Ajax needs just now, imo should be the place of Schone in his current system. The current (field) occupation in midfield also gives Ziyech less room to display his true qualities because he and Donny operate in too small a space and too often go for the same ball. I think it was Kieft who also made a direct comment about that yesterday.

 

[Kaglish10]

this is also inaccurate seeing as we didn't play with a 10 in the first place at all in Klaassen's last season (only one brief season under De Boer). Vd Beek is less technical than Frenkie.

Bosz used a lot of formation but in all of these, Klassen was the attacking midfielder. Van de Beek isn't but a central midfielder.

That was why I said Klassen even had it better than Van de Beek because Klassen saw more of the ball in the midfield than today Van de Beek who is been deployed in a stupid SS role. Erik Ten Hag really got on my nerves with that nonsense. Some people's talent is their achilles. If Van de Beek didn't have good movement and noses for goal, maybe he wouldn't be here he is today and would have developed further as the central midfielder he is even if he had to leave Ajax to accomplish that.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Bosz used a lot of formation but in all of these, Klassen was the attacking midfielder. Van de Beek isn't but a central midfielder.

That was why I said Klassen even had it better than Van de Beek because Klassen saw more of the ball in the midfield than today Van de Beek who is been deployed in a stupid SS role. Erik Ten Hag really got on my nerves with that nonsense. Some people's talent is their achilles. If Van de Beek didn't have good movement and noses for goal, maybe he wouldn't be here he is today and would have developed further as the central midfielder he is even if he had to leave Ajax to accomplish that.

Klaassen didn't touch the ball near as much as Vd Beek does. He was also half the player vd beek is for that matter.

That was one of the first step of Bosz having plan for Van de Beek as a no 6.

Van de Beek looked far better as a 19 yrs old than the likes of Klassen you compared him to and this already ridiculed your poor comparison because there's nothing similar between the two players apart from the fact that Van de Beek is playing in a stupid no 10 role today.

Van de Beek, De Ligt were the only players who looked far above the others in the match against standard Liege. Younes, Dolberg, Klassen were all first team players who started the first leg match, after which they managed to win by 1-0 and these same players played in the second leg against standard Liege but Van de Beek was head and shoulder above them all. Only Sanchez, Onana, Veltman, Schone and Traore were the big names missing in the game.

That aside, squawka stats backed the fact that Van de Beek was better than Frenkie as a no 6 for Ajax. it backed the fact that he's got better passing range, forward thinking passes than Frenkie in the few games he played as a no 6 for ajax.. He certainly didn't look out of place when he came on for Schone against us in the Europa final match.

I had posted Ajax fans' comments on Van de Beek as a no 6, let me repost it and look at the emboldened. Definitely, some Ajax fans think the same way as I and believe Van de Beek should be better deployed in the midfield than as a no 10. I agree with these set of Ajax fans and not you.

Ajax fans comments on him as a no 6 below (I used Google translation):

*Dutch*

*Opvallend detail gister: Toen Schöne inviel, ging Lasse spelen op de halfpositie en niet meer op "6". Lijkt me ook verstandiger. Lasse op "6" kan echt niet meer en ik vond VD Beek daar wel goed gister (en eigenlijk altijd). Brengt veel meer power, loopt verdedigend meer dicht en is opbouwend sneller en beter dan Schöne*

English translation:

Striking detail yesterday: When Schöne came in, Lasse (Schone) started playing in the half position and no longer on "6". Also seems better to me. Lasse on "6" is really not possible anymore and I thought VD Beek was good there yesterday (and actually always). Brings a lot more power, is more defensively close and is constructively faster and better than Schöne.

*Dutch*

*Het middenveld staat verdedigend ook beter met Donny op 6. Schone is een liability als het op verdedigen en omschakelen aankomt. Ik vind Donny heel uitgenast in het hinderlijk onderbreken van een (potentiële) tegenaanval. Het is vloeken in de kerk, maar daarin vind ik hem bijna op z'n Van Bommels acteren. Ik begrijp wat je daarmee bedoelt.

English Translation:

Midfield is defensively better with Donny at 6. Schone is a liability when it comes to defending and switching. I think Donny is very much in the mood for interrupting a (potential) counterattack. It is cursing in the church, but I find it almost acting like Van Bommels.

*Dutch*

*Ik vind Schöne tekort komen in de topwedstrijden dit seizoen. Kan het fysiek niet meer aan en is voetballend niet direct een meerwaarde als je onder druk komt. Vind VD Beek in de topwedstrijden het beter invullen*

English translation:

I think Schöne is inadequate in the top competitions this season. Can't take it anymore physically and playing football is not immediately an added value if you come under pressure. Find VD Beek in the top matches the better fill

*Dutch*

*Goed om er nog een jaar bij te houden als ervaren jongen met veel voetballende kwaliteiten maar zal in de basis plaats moeten maken voor vd Beek of De Jong*

English translation:

Good to keep it up for another year as an experienced boy (Schone) with many footballing qualities, but will have to make way for vd Beek or De Jong in the base.

*Dutch*

*Donny is veel meer de voetballer en mist de kwaliteiten op de positie waar hij nu staat die Ajax juist nu zo nodig heeft, imo zou binnen het huidige systeem de plek van Schone de zijne moeten zijn. Door de huidige (veld)bezetting op het middenveld krijgt ook Ziyech minder ruimte om zijn echte kwaliteiten tentoon te spreiden omdat hij en Donny in een te kleine ruimte opereren en te vaak voor dezelfde bal gaan. Volgens mij was het Kieft die daar gister ook een voltreffer opmerking over maakte.*

English translation:

Donny is much more the football player and lacks the qualities in the position where he is now (no 10) that Ajax needs just now, imo should be the place of Schone in his current system. The current (field) occupation in midfield also gives Ziyech less room to display his true qualities because he and Donny operate in too small a space and too often go for the same ball. I think it was Kieft who also made a direct comment about that yesterday.

all those quotes are about him compared to Schöne, who most Ajax fans have seen as past it for 3 years now, not compared to De Jong. In fact I was one of the first people on Ajax fora saying Schöne should be dropped, and especially towards the end of the Europa League run, Vd Beek for Schöne became an incredibly popular stance, but I'm really not sure what your point is. the fact is that Schöne at the time was really not very highly rated at all by the Ajax fans, hence vd Beek being seen as an improvement. That in itself is hardly an assessment of Donny at all.

 

[Kaglish10]

Klaassen didn't touch the ball near as much as Vd Beek does. He was also half the player vd beek is for that matter.



all those quotes are about him compared to Schöne, who most Ajax fans have seen as past it for 3 years now, not compared to De Jong. In fact I was one of the first people on Ajax fora saying Schöne should be dropped, and especially towards the end of the Europa League run, Vd Beek for Schöne became an incredibly popular stance, but I'm really not sure what your point is. the fact is that Schöne at the time was really not very highly rated at all by the Ajax fans, hence vd Beek being seen as an improvement. That in itself is hardly an assessment of Donny at all.

I thought Van de Beek was just another no 10 like Klassen who won't amount to anything but suddenly Klassen is half the player he is?

Klassen made nothing less than 40 average passes while he was at Ajax whereas Van de Beek's average passes this season is 27. Not even up to 30. It's really that bad. Sometimes, I looked at some of his stat in some Ajax games this season and I saw him make only 15 passes in some of the matches and that's really awful. I mean he may be bringing in the goals as a SS but Erik is destroying him as a SS.

Anyway, I found the match where one of the Ajax fan talked about Schone coming on as a sub but rather than get deployed as a no 6, he played on the right. It was the match against Groningen. Schone actually replaced Frenkie who didn't have a good game as a no 8. Now you can see how the shoe fits on the other side. Frenkie couldn't cope as a no 8. How did you think he would have coped as a SS in Beek's place?

*Opvallend detail gister: Toen Schöne inviel, ging Lasse spelen op de halfpositie en niet meer op "6". Lijkt me ook verstandiger. Lasse op "6" kan echt niet meer en ik vond VD Beek daar wel goed gister
(en eigenlijk altijd) . Brengt veel meer power, loopt verdedigend meer dicht en is opbouwend sneller en beter dan Schöne*

English translation:

Striking detail yesterday: When Schöne came in, Lasse (Schone) started playing in the half position and no longer on "6". Also seems better to me. Lasse on "6" is really not possible anymore and I thought VD Beek was good there yesterday (and actually always) . Brings a lot more power, is more defensively close and is constructively faster and better than Schöne.

The match stat is here below, https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...rlands-Eredivisie-2017-2018-Ajax-FC-Groningen

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

I thought Van de Beek was just another no 10 like Klassen who won't amount to anything but suddenly Klassen is half the player he is?

i'm done with this whole nonsense conversation tbh. what's the point in a "discussion" with someone who bases his entire point on 3 seasons ago, stats, (edit: oh and a collection of handpicked completely out of context Dutch comments from 2016/17) and ascribing the other person views he's never held. literally half your points you're just repeating from my earlier comments in the first place!! see:

He hasn't (been allowed to) develop(ed) into the player I've always seen in him. He's a hard worker with a really good functional technique and good passing range, who could have been a fantastic box-to-box midfielder or just proper central midfielder, which is also how he first properly found his way into the team taking Schöne's place in a number of games under Bosz.

Unfortunately the summer after that season Klaassen left, and with that being the spot available and Donny being a hardworking blonde Dutch midfielder, he increasingly got shoehorned more and more into the exact Klaassen, a far more football-technically limited player, role.

He's been played as a sort of second striker, Müller type 10 all season and I think he definitely has a lot of tactical value in that role in how his movement pulls defenders (see his runs for the RM away goals) and midfielders (see how he completely exploited Martinez in Bayern away) out of position, but it's really limited his influence on the ball and his development as a more complete player.

So no, he's definitely not a Matic replacement, in his current version anyway.

To actually touch on his abilities and limitations:

Positives: great in short combinations, inventive in how he creates chances both on and off the ball, functionally good with his weak foot, can finish (though seemingly not too good in proper striker type 1 on 1 chances), can press very well, has an aggression in him though imo he's not actually made steps in that aspect since becoming a first team player, surprisingly skillful at times in small space though othertimes seems a bit clunky.

Negatives: His "action" radius has just become way too small. It's partly the role and position he's played in, as a 10 with two midfielders behind him he tends to either receives the ball in very busy areas, often not with the play ahead of him, or out wide when he's drifted there. As a result, he really mainly operates in max 5-10 radius around him in his passing, running with the ball, but also in his defensive pressing, he sort of leads the press in the midfield and so it's very short distances he is actually involved at any time. Hard to explain what I mean by this, but take De Jong, he tracks opposition over 20-40 metres, dribbles and passing over a similar distance. Donny's qualities should have been more in that sort of direction, as a Gerrard type player, but instead he's a player that I think few teams would use beyond tactical motivations.

I think I've just written some entirely unhelpful, uninteresting to anyone not an Ajax supporter, nonsense here, but basically he's not United quality and unless he makes big steps in a new role is unlikely to ever come particularly close. I really really really like him and want him to do well but unfortunately he's looking more limited than I had hoped he would turn out.

I actually really hope that Ten Hag decides to switch back to a system with a 6 instead of a 10 next season or if not moves van de Beek back to take De Jong's vacancy in the "double pivot"(or whatever you wanna call it) and then let's see how he develops

btw Frenkie de Jong had a shocking start to his starting XI time at Ajax. I remember being in the stadium when Keizer tried him and vd Beek together vs Vitesse around that same time and A) it was one of the worst games I've ever seen from an Ajax side and B) vd Beek and Frenkie seemed absolutely clueless about where they were supposed to be. But again if you remove all context and compare one 20 year old in a couple of his first ever starts, to another 20 year old who broke through a little earlier and so felt a little more comfortable, rather than their performances in the full two seasons since, what's the point?

 

[Kaglish10]

i'm done with this whole nonsense conversation tbh. what's the point in a "discussion" with someone who bases his entire point on 3 seasons ago, stats, (edit: oh and a collection of handpicked completely out of context Dutch comments from 2016/17) and ascribing the other person views he's never held. literally half your points you're just repeating from my earlier comments in the first place!! see:



btw Frenkie de Jong had a shocking start to his starting XI time at Ajax. I remember being in the stadium when Keizer tried him and vd Beek together vs Vitesse around that same time and A) it was one of the worst games I've ever seen from an Ajax side and B) vd Beek and Frenkie seemed absolutely clueless about where they were supposed to be. But again if you remove all context and compare one 20 year old in a couple of his first ever starts, to another 20 year old who broke through a little earlier and so felt a little more comfortable, rather than their performances in the full two seasons since, what's the point?

Maybe I have problem with you moving around in circles. You said Van de Beek is a no 10 who's no better than Klassen and would amount to nothing like his predecessor but when all facts stated otherwise, your statement became Klassen is half the player Van de Beek is and Van De Beek is actually better than Schone in the central midfield. What exactly are you saying?

All his stat point to one fact, which is he's got better passing range than Frenkie. Squawka pointed out that he's got more forward passes, better passing range (average pass length), created more chances and has got more long ball passes than Frenkie.

I will always go back to the season he played as a central midfielder because that's his best position and it's a shame that Erik Ten Hag keeps deploying him as a SS. Van de Beek didn't ask Ajax not to sign a striker or no 10, neither was he the one who made Dolberg to regress as a striker nor made Huntelaar old. Heck, he didn't ask Frenkie to be a specialist who couldn't adapt to another role except the no 6 role. Even the likes of Havertz and Brandt who are more of no 10 always had more touches in the central midfield under Bosz tutulage at Leverkusen than Van de Beek at Ajax these days. He should be given a break already and moved back to his best role. Better still, he should leave Ajax and I won't mind him at Manutd because we really need a midfielder either as a 8 or no 6. The point is, he needs to further his development as a central midfielder and he won't get that if he keeps playing as a SS.

Who's keizer? I don't know him. If Van de Beek played under him, that means he made his debut as a 18yrs old because he was 19yrs under Bosz. Anyway, the point is Frenkie is a no 6 specialist who finds it difficult in another role hence if you're to get the maximum from him, he should be deployed as one and that means, he was always going to struggle alongside Van de Beek except if he's the no 6.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Maybe I have problem with you moving around in circles. You said Van de Beek is a no 10 who's no better than Klassen and would amount to nothing like his predecessor but when all facts stated otherwise, your statement became Klassen is half the player Van de Beek is and Van De Beek is actually better than Schone in the central midfield. What exactly are you saying?

All his stat point to one fact, which is he's got better passing range than Frenkie. Squawka pointed out that he's got more forward passes, better passing range (average pass length), created more chances and has got more long ball passes than Frenkie.

I will always go back to the season he played as a central midfielder because that's his best position and it's a shame that Erik Ten Hag keeps deploying him as a SS. Van de Beek didn't ask Ajax not to sign a striker or no 10, neither was he the one who made Dolberg to regress as a striker nor made Huntelaar old. Heck, he didn't ask Frenkie to be a specialist who couldn't adapt to another role except the no 6 role. Even the likes of Havertz and Brandt who are more of no 10 always had more touches in the central midfield under Bosz tutulage at Leverkusen than Van de Beek at Ajax these days. He should be given a break already and moved back to his best role. Better still, he should leave Ajax and I won't mind him at Manutd because we really need a midfielder either as a 8 or no 6. The point is, he needs to further his development as a central midfielder and he won't get that if he keeps playing as a SS.

Who's keizer? I don't know him. If Van de Beek played under him, that means he made his debut as a 18yrs old because he was 19yrs under Bosz. Anyway, the point is Frenkie is a no 6 specialist who finds it difficult in another role hence if you're to get the maximum from him, he should be deployed as one and that means, he was always going to struggle alongside Van de Beek except if he's the no 6.

Keizer was after Bosz.

 

[Kaglish10]

Keizer was after Bosz.

I didn't know. I was actually confused to see Van de Beek play in the midfield either as a no 6 or 8 after Bosz had left, for example the game against Groningen but suddenly moved to a SS this season. I kept wondering what could have happened. I didn't know the coach was changed. No wonder. Thanks for the info.

Maybe he shouldn't have scored 11 goals as a central midfielder last season hence why Erik Ten Hag deemed him as a SS this season.

 

[RooneyLegend]

i'm done with this whole nonsense conversation tbh.

I was admiring your patience and persistence. This is a man that believes De Jong can't pass a ball forward, you shouldn't have bothered.

 

[Kaglish10]

No one said Frenkie can't pass the ball forward. The stat has it that he only made 22 passes forward out of 120 passes completed by him per mins in each game this season. I won't bother with someone that has got problem with comprehension.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Maybe I have problem with you moving around in circles. You said Van de Beek is a no 10 who's no better than Klassen and would amount to nothing like his predecessor

I've never said anything of the sort.

All his stat point to one fact, which is he's got better passing range than Frenkie. Squawka pointed out that he's got more forward passes, better passing range (average pass length), created more chances and has got more long ball passes than Frenkie.

Your stats are from 6 30 minute sub appearances in 2016/17... Also they say De Jong has only played 14 games this season so not sure how much i trust them full stop.

Who's keizer? I don't know him. If Van de Beek played under him, that means he made his debut as a 18yrs old because he was 19yrs under Bosz. Anyway, the point is Frenkie is a no 6 specialist who finds it difficult in another role hence if you're to get the maximum from him, he should be deployed as one and that means, he was always going to struggle alongside Van de Beek except if he's the no 6.

Van de Beek made his debut under De Boer...

Frenkie de Jong isn't a specialist at no.6... he's been an attacking 8 his entire youth career and that's also how he broke through, as a super talent, at Ajax, before being moved to centreback by Keizer for a season, where he did surprisingly really really well. This led to him finally being settled at 6 this season (in a double pivot though...).

In fact your whole arugment is based on a load of bs because last season vd beek wasn't "played as a 10 to make place for De Jong" whatsoever. De Jong was played centreback, Schöne was played at 6, and Vd Beek was played as a central midfielder next to Ziyech!

edit:

I didn't know. I was actually confused to see Van de Beek play in the midfield either as a no 6 or 8 after Bosz had left, for example the game against Groningen but suddenly moved to a SS this season. I kept wondering what could have happened. I didn't know the coach was changed. No wonder. Thanks for the info.

Maybe he shouldn't have scored 11 goals as a central midfielder last season hence why Erik Ten Hag deemed him as a SS this season.

Ten Hag took over in November last season, so that doesn't explain it. maybe again if you actually followed Ajax or watched their games you'd know that it's simply down to the change in system this season.

 

[Kaglish10]

I've never said anything of the sort.



Your stats are from 6 30 minute sub appearances in 2016/17... Also they say De Jong has only played 14 games this season so not sure how much i trust them full stop.



Van de Beek made his debut under De Boer...

Frenkie de Jong isn't a specialist at no.6... he's been an attacking 8 his entire youth career and that's also how he broke through, as a super talent, at Ajax, before being moved to centreback by Keizer for a season, where he did surprisingly really really well. This led to him finally being settled at 6 this season (in a double pivot though...).

In fact your whole arugment is based on a load of bs because last season vd beek wasn't "played as a 10 to make place for De Jong" whatsoever. De Jong was played centreback, Schöne was played at 6, and Vd Beek was played as a central midfielder next to Ziyech!

edit:



Ten Hag took over in November last season, so that doesn't explain it. maybe again if you actually followed Ajax or watched their games you'd know that it's simply down to the change in system this season.

Says someone who said Van de Beek has been playing as a no 10 for two seasons in a row now.

is this me? I love love love the guy. just don't think he's united quality nor as good as Frenkie de Jong. Also your "had high hope" is then still based on his sub appearance in the EL final? He's played as a 10 for like two seasons now.

But you backtracked once again after seeing the fact staring at your face and claim he didn't play as a no 10 last season. I keep wondering whether you're an Ajax fan or not. Anyway, Van de Beek got deployed mostly as a no 8 last season and had 11 goals and 6 assists. It's no wonder that Ten Hag saw him as a foward whereas he's a central midfielder.

In fact, whoscored rated him better last season than this season and that shows how poisonous the SS role has been to him. Regardless of the goals he's scored as a SS this season, his all around game has taken a back seat and that's more reason, he needs to leave Ajax to further his improvement. I really dislike the act of wasting the talent of young players all in a bid to achieve a stupid aim.

The squawka stat I showed you was based on minutes played, not on games played hence it was able to capture min by min performance of these players regardless of the no of games played by them unlike whoscored stat which based theirs on no of games played. Squawka couldn't capture all of eredivisie league matches hence the 14 games played by Frenkie but considering the no of minutes played as a no 6 by him compared to Van de Beek, shouldn't he have more forward passes, better average length passes and long ball passes than Van de Beek? Without the stat, any capable eyeball test knows Frenkie doesn't have the capability to switch play to the wing with long passes. I watched all of Ajax CL matches and I hardly saw him switch play and the stat back it up.

Whether Frenkie played as a central midfielder in the youth team doesn't negate the fact that he was subpar as a starting central midfielder, except if he was deployed further back as a no 6 or as a central back.

Ten Hag was appointed in late Dec 2017. He had no option than to continue with the setup his predecessor had and the fact that they had no Blind to play alongside de Ligt hence he had to continue with playing Frenkie de Jong who made some mistake as a central back although he was decent overall. Personally, I don't see what he did different from his predecessor apart from bringing in taglifiaco to the left back role last season. I may not have watched Ajax always but I followed up each game. It was probably why I didn't know they had their coach changed because the lineups and their 433 set-up were the same throughout last season regardless of the change in coach.

In the following season, Ten Hag got a new defender to play alongside de Ligt hence he had to move Frenkie back to the midfield but the annoying thing was playing Van de Beek in the SS role because he had scored a lot of goals as a central midfielder in the previous season. He should have simply signed a new striker if he thinks Huntelaar is ageing or deploy Tadic as a no 10 while he gets a new winger. It's awful to want to destroy a talent just to achieve a stupid aim. I can take it if Van de Beek was a player who didn't have a specific role and has struggled prior to that hence the coach was trying to look for a new role for him to adapt but that wasn't the case with Van de Beek. He was already an established central midfielder. I can also take it if it was for few games he had to play as a SS due to tactical change but that wasn't the case.

Like I said earlier, Brandt and Havertz who are not central midfielders are treated better under Bosz at Leverkusen than Van de Beek at Ajax under Ten Hag. Only if Bosz didn't leave, all these wouldn't have happened. Even Klassen was treated better under Bosz. Anyway, the ball is in Van de Beek's court, he needs to leave Ajax to ensure his development as a central midfielder isn't stalled and he needs to leave right now.

 

[Ajaxsuarez]

Says someone who said Van de Beek has been playing as a no 10 for two seasons in a row now.

you're right i got confused there by you, but my main point was that vd beek hasn't played as a 6 in that time.

But you backtracked once again after seeing the fact staring at your face and claim he didn't play as a no 10 last season. I keep wondering whether you're an Ajax fan or not. Anyway, Van de Beek got [stats]

In fact, [stats], he needs to leave Ajax to further his improvement. I really dislike the act of wasting the talent of young players all in a bid to achieve a stupid aim.

The [stats] Without the stat, any capable eyeball test knows Frenkie doesn't have the capability to switch play to the wing with long passes. I watched all of Ajax CL matches and I hardly saw him switch play and the stat back it up.

summarised your comment there. what's the point? Also I've been saying De Jong's long pass is sub-par for longer than anyone on here. But without that one aspect, his distribution is still world class.

Whether Frenkie played as a central midfielder in the youth team doesn't negate the fact that he was subpar as a starting central midfielder, except if he was deployed further back as a no 6 or as a central back.

He was subpar for a grand total of 3 or 4 games in his first starting games. great point there mate.

Ten Hag was appointed in late Dec 2017. He had no option than to continue with the setup his predecessor had and the fact that they had no Blind to play alongside de Ligt hence he had to continue with playing Frenkie de Jong who made some mistake as a central back although he was decent overall.

you didn't even know about this, let alone watch it. so what arse are you pulling this from. It was a pretty brilliant tactical find at the time:

Personally, I don't see what he did different from his predecessor apart from bringing in taglifiaco to the left back role last season. I may not have watched Ajax always but I followed up each game. It was probably why I didn't know they had their coach changed because the lineups and their 433 set-up were the same throughout last season regardless of the change in coach.

you can't follow football this way

In the following season, Ten Hag got a new defender to play alongside de Ligt hence he had to move Frenkie back to the midfield but the annoying thing was playing Van de Beek in the SS role because he had scored a lot of goals as a central midfielder in the previous season. He should have simply signed a new striker if he thinks Huntelaar is ageing or deploy Tadic as a no 10 while he gets a new winger. It's awful to want to destroy a talent just to achieve a stupid aim. I can take it if Van de Beek was a player who didn't have a specific role and has struggled prior to that hence the coach was trying to look for a new role for him to adapt but that wasn't the case with Van de Beek. He was already an established central midfielder. I can also take it if it was for few games he had to play as a SS due to tactical change but that wasn't the case.

he did initially play Ziyech as 10, which didn't see vd Beek as a centremid - it saw Vd Beek benched for a good part of the first season half because he was completely out of form!

 

[Kaglish10]

you're right i got confused there by you, but my main point was that vd beek hasn't played as a 6 in that time.



summarised your comment there. what's the point? Also I've been saying De Jong's long pass is sub-par for longer than anyone on here. But without that one aspect, his distribution is still world class.




He was subpar for a grand total of 3 or 4 games in his first starting games. great point there mate.



you didn't even know about this, let alone watch it. so what arse are you pulling this from. It was a pretty brilliant tactical find at the time:




you can't follow football this way



he did initially play Ziyech as 10, which didn't see vd Beek as a centremid - it saw Vd Beek benched for a good part of the first season half because he was completely out of form!

Funny enough Van de Beek was deployed as a SS immediately Ajax CL play off started, right before the season started. He wasn't given a chance at all and when the season started, he had one game he played in the central midfield in the 1-1 draw against Heracles and was the second best player (7.28) behind Ziyech among the 6 front players as rated by whoscored.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...etherlands-Eredivisie-2018-2019-Ajax-Heracles

In the subsequent matches, he got moved back to the same SS role where he struggled in the previous matches but the coach didn't care and when he couldn't adapt, he was dumped to the bench until he eventually adapted to the role. That was why I said it was a stupid aim by the coach. Van de Beek really should have left at that time.

I expect you to turn around to say another thing now that your notion on Van de Beek struggling as a central midfield got found out once again.

This was Frenkie as a defender for Ajax. Notice the comment in the image below.

He was always fond of dribbling aimlessly to comb forward before making a pass and some occasion, he lost the ball which led to the opposition's goals. I know what I'm talking about because I followed Ajax up to see how Van de Beek and de Ligt were developing.

Anyway, my opinion remains that Ten Hag is destroying Van de Beek talent by deploying him in a stupid SS role and he should leave Ajax if he wants to improve his game.

 

[legolegs]

wth is going on here, please tell us you're trolling

 

[KirkDuyt]

So we have people now who only watch stats sheets after the game, so much so, they're not even sure who the coach is, but still insist they can make a well formed opinion on individual performances.

Frenkie de Jong will be an absolute world beater. Donny vd Beek will end up in a team fighting for top 6 in one of the bigger leagues at most. He was an effective passenger in a team where he was surrounded with a ridiculous amount of creativity.

Really Donny vd Beek as a playmaker. Just shoot me.

 

[Kaglish10]

So we have people now who only watch stats sheets after the game, so much so, they're not even sure who the coach is, but still insist they can make a well formed opinion on individual performances.

Frenkie de Jong will be an absolute world beater. Donny vd Beek will end up in a team fighting for top 6 in one of the bigger leagues at most. He was an effective passenger in a team where he was surrounded with a ridiculous amount of creativity.

Really Donny vd Beek as a playmaker. Just shoot me.

I watched their continental games and some of the games I could catch. No way would Frenkie become a world beater. Let him displace Busquet at Barca first. His dribbling will really mesmerize the cules like he did to some Ajax fans. After all, I saw some of the Ajax fans jinxing their pants over one of his runs.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I watched their continental games and some of the games I could catch. No way would Frenkie become a world beater. Let him displace Busquet at Barca first. His dribbling will really mesmerize the cules like he did to some Ajax fans.

I think the best solution here is to say; let's talk in a year or two

Also I don't understand your comment. Frenkie wont be a world beater because his dribbling will mesmerize them?

 

[Sjaakmeoff]

Yeah, but everyone that watched Ajax this year (league and Europe) can see that you're just wrong.

Donny is a great player. Not a playmaker. The reason he's so important for this team is because of his play off the ball (and tbh; only when they're playing with a false 9).

 

[Kaglish10]

I think the best solution here is to say; let's talk in a year or two

Also I don't understand your comment. Frenkie wont be a world beater because his dribbling will mesmerize them?

Because his game is centred around dribbling and ball hogging, considering he doesn't have an expansive passing range like Van de Beek.

A central midfielder's game isn't centred around dribbling but his quick decision making and his several passing skills (lofted, long, throughballs, crosses etc). I bet our new generation dribbling eccentric fans would have found Xavi a bore at the time Barca's game wasn't centred around him nor winning trophies because all he did was speak with his passes, not a stupid dribbling. Likewise Pirlo at Inter but the fact that he couldn't cope as a no 10, he wasn't deem good until he moved to Milan where he got deployed as a central midfielder and became one of the best in the role while Inter kept gnashing their teeth.

I have seen plenty of Ajax fans screaming over Frenkie's dribbling and I was like, what's happening? Anyway, time will tell. I'm sure if Van de Beek had been allowed to grow as a no 6, Pep would have moved mountain for him but I didn't see him do that for Frenkie. That tells he's not seeing what you're all seeing.