Donny Van De Beek

bosnian_red

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To be honest, I'm always annoyed whenever I see him gets deployed as a no 10. I really want to know how much his game has improved as a central midfielder but you could only see glimpses because he hardly gets played as one.

That being said, the no 10 role has actually made him to improve his strength on the ball as a holdup support striker. He's got this kind of long gangly legs to accompany his frame hence tends to look akward but recently, he's built more strength on his legs and looks quite hard to knock off unlike before. This hasn't stopped his agility/quick turns too. He actually said he trained hard to improve himself as a no 10.

The central midfield role is still his best.
Not sure if it's his best role - his best season came as a #10. Plenty of youth players start off as one thing and then move to a different position and excel more than ever before.
 

Fosu-Mens

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Don't agree with that at all. Fernandes is a classy player and if it were a choice between the two, Fernandes has the little bit extra that sets him apart. However, if Van de Beek can play CDM then there's no need to choose - get both! V.D.Beek - Fernandes - Pogba. Sorted.
Classy? Little bit extra? What is that?
Set pieces and finishing is what he brings to the table.

Beek, Barella, Rabiot, Tielemans, Rodri (if possible) are the ones we should try to get.
 

manuchamp88

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Classy? Little bit extra? What is that?
Set pieces and finishing is what he brings to the table.

Beek, Barella, Rabiot, Tielemans, Rodri (if possible) are the ones we should try to get.
His control, first touch, vision.

This may all be moot anyway as Ole has said McTominay will be have a bigger role next season which makes me think we won't go for someone who can play CDM and that (based on recent reports) Fernandes is first choice for CM, Rabiot second, Van de Beek third. Something like that.
 

Fosu-Mens

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His control, first touch, vision.

This may all be moot anyway as Ole has said McTominay will be have a bigger role next season which makes me think we won't go for someone who can play CDM and that (based on recent reports) Fernandes is first choice for CM, Rabiot second, Van de Beek third. Something like that.
His ability to play a pass when not under pressure is great, I can agree on that. Don't think his control or first touch is the best, but he would still be an upgrade on our current players.

Personally, I think B. Fernandes would suit a role similar to how Firminho plays for Liverpool. As a CM together with Pogba, would not be a good solution. Both are trigger happy, neither are typical balancing players. Would need Kante to handle behind them, and then we would struggle to play out of defence.
 

Champagne Football

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I think Pogba will leave towards the end of the transfer window. The Zidane factor will be too big for Pogba to say no. Raiola will get it done.

Van de Beek has the energy and profile that we're looking for.

I wouldn't be against molding Mctominay into a holding midfielder next season even if he currently does not have the discipline for it. But Jordan Henderson for example excelled when shifted from a no. 8 to a no. 6.

So perhaps a 3 of
McTominay
Van de Beek Fernandes​
 

manuchamp88

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His ability to play a pass when not under pressure is great, I can agree on that. Don't think his control or first touch is the best, but he would still be an upgrade on our current players.

Personally, I think B. Fernandes would suit a role similar to how Firminho plays for Liverpool. As a CM together with Pogba, would not be a good solution. Both are trigger happy, neither are typical balancing players. Would need Kante to handle behind them, and then we would struggle to play out of defence.
Well, granted, McSauce isn't Kante but he may build on a decent season that he's just had. Let's see.
 

manuchamp88

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I think Pogba will leave towards the end of the transfer window. The Zidane factor will be too big for Pogba to say no. Raiola will get it done.

Van de Beek has the energy and profile that we're looking for.

I wouldn't be against molding Mctominay into a holding midfielder next season even if he currently does not have the discipline for it. But Jordan Henderson for example excelled when shifted from a no. 8 to a no. 6.

So perhaps a 3 of
McTominay
Van de Beek Fernandes​
It could work, but I think it's far more likely De Gea will leave and I can't see him and Pogba both going this summer - the higher-ups will be worried about the back lash from unimpressed investors, nevermind the fans.
 
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Champagne Football

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It could work, but I think it's far more likely De Gea will leave and I can't see him and Pogba both going this summer - the higher-ups will be worried about the lash back from unimpressed investors, nevermind the fans.
I think they both leave. We'll snap Madrid hand off for £150 million. Pogba will eventually hand in a transfer request. £200 million for a rebuild from the sale of 2 players who don't want to be here, is good business
 

Kaglish10

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Not sure if it's his best role - his best season came as a #10. Plenty of youth players start off as one thing and then move to a different position and excel more than ever before.
He doesn't really look as good in the no 10 as he does in the central midfield. Even when he was having a good game as a no 10, it usually happens whenever he drops deep into the midfield like he did against Juventus. I don't know why Erik Ten Hag didn't employ the same setup against Spurs.

This was one of the Ajax quote about him while he was struggling as a no 10 before he acclimatised to the no 10 role. It was stated that the no 6 (Schone) role is his best.

*Dutch*

*Donny is veel meer de voetballer en mist de kwaliteiten op de positie waar hij nu staat die Ajax juist nu zo nodig heeft, imo zou binnen het huidige systeem de plek van Schone de zijne moeten zijn. Door de huidige (veld)bezetting op het middenveld krijgt ook Ziyech minder ruimte om zijn echte kwaliteiten tentoon te spreiden omdat hij en Donny in een te kleine ruimte opereren en te vaak voor dezelfde bal gaan. Volgens mij was het Kieft die daar gister ook een voltreffer opmerking over maakte.*

English translation:

Donny is much more the football player and lacks the qualities in the position where he is now (no 10) that Ajax needs just now, imo should be the place of Schone in his current system. The current (field) occupation in midfield also gives Ziyech less room to display his true qualities because he and Donny operate in too small a space and too often go for the same ball. I think it was Kieft who also made a direct comment about that yesterday.
 

manuchamp88

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I think they both leave. We'll snap Madrid hand off for £150 million. Pogba will eventually hand in a transfer request. £200 million for a rebuild from the sale of 2 players who don't want to be here, is good business
In that case, Donnarumma, Fernandes and Van de Beek/Rabiot all in and that allows Fernandes to play as AMC and VDB/Rabiot as CM.
 

Champagne Football

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In that case, Donnarumma, Fernandes and Van de Beek/Rabiot all in and that allows Fernandes to play as AMC and VDB/Rabiot as CM.
Not enough protection with that 3. Rabiot has a reputation for ignoring the tracking back, despite being an awesome attacker. Maybe Mctominay, Van de Beek and Rabiot could work though. But I'd prefer Fernandes to Rabiot as Fernandes appears to be a leader
 

manuchamp88

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Not enough protection with that 3. Rabiot has a reputation for ignoring the tracking back, despite being an awesome attacker. Maybe Mctominay, Van de Beek and Rabiot could work though. But I'd prefer Fernandes to Rabiot as Fernandes appears to be a leader
To clarify, I meant Van de Beek or Rabiot. McTominay would be the CDM. Still, I really can't see us selling both De Gea and Pogba this summer even though we want players who actually wanna be here.
 

Kaglish10

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I'm sure I saw someone previously say on here that Ajax fans thought he was only about as good as Klassen prior to the season just gone. Granted he's young, but is there any chance he just rode the wave of playing in a young, talented team playing a great system that suited everyone?
Before Ajax's other youngsters came in, he was already one of Ajax best players and almost displaced Schone out of the starting lineup. If Bosz hadn't left, he wouldn't be deployed as a no 10 today.

While I watched Ajax Europa play off, he was the best player on the pitch while playing as a midfielder and if other Ajax players were on the same wavelength, Ajax would have qualified.
 

Bokito

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The Aldi-brand Pogba? He had a great season, granted, but I don’t see what makes him so great. He always seems to combine brilliance with absolute crap. Making a great run, but missing the shot at open goal. Setting up a smart double pass, but closing off the space created for the other guy etc. I could be wrong (for the sake of the Dutch NT I do hope to be), but I just don’t see that excellence...
 

Kaglish10

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The Aldi-brand Pogba? He had a great season, granted, but I don’t see what makes him so great. He always seems to combine brilliance with absolute crap. Making a great run, but missing the shot at open goal. Setting up a smart double pass, but closing off the space created for the other guy etc. I could be wrong (for the sake of the Dutch NT I do hope to be), but I just don’t see that excellence...
He's not a striker in the first place. Deploying him as a no 10 looks already stupid, why deploy him as a striker too? Koeman got what he deserved.
 

Van Piorsing

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I remember when people laughed at Wijnaldum.

Player in similar age to James and Bissaka... these type of deals require coaching staff to do their magic on the players.
 

Litch

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I remember when people laughed at Wijnaldum.

Player in similar age to James and Bissaka... these type of deals require coaching staff to do their magic on the players.
No idea about his quality aside from like others at Ajax, had a very good season. I think your Wijnaldum comment is def worth noting as Kloop seems to have an eye in picking potential that no one else sees. I wonder what the comments would have been on here if we signed him from a poor Newcastle side?
 

Van Piorsing

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No idea about his quality aside from like others at Ajax, had a very good season. I think your Wijnaldum comment is def worth noting as Kloop seems to have an eye in picking potential that no one else sees. I wonder what the comments would have been on here if we signed him from a poor Newcastle side?
We just need to sign players we will be able to coach to their maximum potential or even surpass that. Van de Beek is just as gamble as any other newcomer to the big leagues.

United need to do solid job on their part, there's no escaping from that.
 

Okey

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I don't rate Van de Beek that highly Will probably wither in a big club. Surely can't be viewed as a Pogba replacement. Hardly held his own in the Nations League as we saw. Maarten de Roon of all people was keeping him out! I'd take Rabiot above him as a midfield buy every day and twice on Sunday.
 

Kaglish10

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Ffs Bosz even employed Jairo Riedewald as a 6 back then, calling him “my man”. It was onlyafter switching his entire around, everything started working.

Granted, Van de Beek is versatile and can play all options on midfield, but De Jong is special. I recall the Donny-Appie-Frenkie midfield tearing opponents a new one, and out of them three, Donny definitely was the lesser talent. Frenkie was outshone by Nouri, btw...
Riedewald only offered defensive works as a no 6. De Beek was more than just a defensive midfielder. For example the 1-1 draw Vs standard Liege. Whoscored tends to give more point to any dribbling success had by a player but Van de Beek hardly dribbled yet was rated as the best in the match. He had the highest touches, created the highest chances as well as made several long passes to switch play in the match.

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1...A-Europa-League-2016-2017-Standard-Liege-Ajax

@KirkDuyt, you laughed at my notion that Wijnaldum is a decent playmaker but look at what happened yesterday again. He got deployed as a no 10 when he should be in the midfield to control the game eventhough he's not world-class at it. Same happened against England in the first half until he was moved to the midfield in the second half. Prior to that, England were on top despite their little possession while the Dutch did zilch with all the possession they had until after Wijnaldum moved to the midfield in second half and controlled the game.

Controlling the game isn't just about incisive passes (eventhough I have harped on it because I think you need that in your game if you want to be a reckon) but also has to do with quick speed of thought, making right movement and positional play etc. I thought Koeman would have realised that in the game but he stuck to his guns and deployed the same horrible setup with Wijnaldum as a no 10 against Portugal. While he didn't have a a 3-man midfield of Frenkie, Wijnaldum and Van de Beek is something I can't get my head around. Koeman got what he deserved.

That said, I hope you now realise that Frenkie isn't a playmaker.
 

Kaglish10

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I don't rate Van de Beek that highly Will probably wither in a big club. Surely can't be viewed as a Pogba replacement. Hardly held his own in the Nations League as we saw. Maarten de Roon of all people was keeping him out! I'd take Rabiot above him as a midfield buy every day and twice on Sunday.
That was because Koeman thought he's a no 10. Only Van de Beek can undo this notion. He needs to leave Ajax as soon as possible.
 

Jibbs

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Dare i say, he reminds me of Scholes of 01-03 era, when he used to be deployed behind RVN. He is an intelligent player, reads the game well, has got good engine in him, next 2 to 3 years he will transform into KdB, Kroos like player. United should do everything to get him along with Fernandes and Rabiot. Won't mind Pogba leaving then.