Donny Van De Beek

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TheForgottenOne

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He's no Klassen though. Van de Beek already outshone Klassen when he was just 19/20 yrs old while playing as a no 8 or CDM. He also outshone Schone. He was always Ajax's best player everytime I watched them before he got moved to the no 10 role this season.
No he did not. Klaassen left 2 seasons ago. In his last season, he captained Ajax and scored 14 goals and gave 10 assists in the Eredivisie.

Van de Beek made 19 appearances for a whopping 538 minutes and failed to cement a starting spot over Schöne, who is no more than an average player. He did not outshine Klaassen at that time. Not even close.

So, saying he outshone everyone on that age is simply just not true. He showed some talent and get some playing time. No more, no less.

Saying he struggled at the start of the season because he was deployed as a SS behind a false 9 is also not true. Huntelaar was playing as a striker and he is by no means a false 9.

Ajax only played with Tadic as false 9 up front in games against harder opponents the CL and a handful of Eredivisie games. Almost all of those games were played in the second half of the season. In regular games Ajax played 4-3-3 with one AM ahead of de Jong and Schone.

I have respect for van de Beek. Has a great work ethic and is a very decent player. But as said by no means a player that is currently at a level that would help us forward.
 

Shaw Mee Tah Mané

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In Team of the year he didnt grab a spot in a 4-3-3, behind Schöne, Ødegaard & De Jong (obviously). He wasnt even on the 9-player bench.

I agree he looks talented, but if you can’t dominate for a full season in the dutch league at 22, you are not worth that kind of money.
 

Kaglish10

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No he did not. Klaassen left 2 seasons ago. In his last season, he captained Ajax and scored 14 goals and gave 10 assists in the Eredivisie.

Van de Beek made 19 appearances for a whopping 538 minutes and failed to cement a starting spot over Schöne, who is no more than an average player. He did not outshine Klaassen at that time. Not even close.

So, saying he outshone everyone on that age is simply just not true. He showed some talent and get some playing time. No more, no less.

Saying he struggled at the start of the season because he was deployed as a SS behind a false 9 is also not true. Huntelaar was playing as a striker and he is by no means a false 9.

Ajax only played with Tadic as false 9 up front in games against harder opponents the CL and a handful of Eredivisie games. Almost all of those games were played in the second half of the season. In regular games Ajax played 4-3-3 with one AM ahead of de Jong and Schone.

I have respect for van de Beek. Has a great work ethic and is a very decent player. But as said by no means a player that is currently at a level that would help us forward.
He was better than Klassen everytime he played for Ajax as a 19yrs old. The game against standard Liege is a testament to this.

And it's actually funny for you to have expected a 19yrs old Van De Beek who just got into the squad to displace an experienced Schone eventhough Ajax fans were already clamouring for Van de Beek to displace him because he outshone Schone everytime he was deployed as a no 6. The fact that a 19yrs old got into the squad ahead of even Frenkie de Jong who broke into the team at 21 yrs is a testament to Van de Beek talent. I watched Ajax in the two legs Vs Nice and Van de Beek as a central midfielder looked head and shoulders above the likes of Ziyech, Schone, Neres, Kluivert and even Frenkie de Jong.

How many games did Huntelaar start btw? Considering the likes of Tadic, Neres and Ziyech all got many games in the attacking role.
 

Kaglish10

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In Team of the year he didnt grab a spot in a 4-3-3, behind Schöne, Ødegaard & De Jong (obviously). He wasnt even on the 9-player bench.

I agree he looks talented, but if you can’t dominate for a full season in the dutch league at 22, you are not worth that kind of money.
That was because he's not a no 10/SS. Odegaard was better than him in the no 10 role hence got a place. Also, he wasn't deployed in the central midfield hence there was no way he would have got a spot.
 

DWelbz19

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He's a bit like Thomas Müller. We need players like him here even if it's just for the mentality.
I was thinking more like Aaron Ramsey. If Arsenal had the money I think he’d be a great replacement.
 

Shaw Mee Tah Mané

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That was because he's not a no 10/SS. Odegaard was better than him in the no 10 role hence got a place. Also, he wasn't deployed in the central midfield hence there was no way he would have got a spot.
Ødegaard played 1 game as no 10, rest of the games on the RW. Still he got a spot as a CM in the 4-3-3. And de Beeks position shouldnt be an issue when it comes to the 9-player bench? If he was a top 20 performer in the league he would’ve been in. But he wasnt.

Not saying he is a bad player, but to splash £40-50m and expect him to be a starter for United isn’t smart at all.
 

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@Kaglish10 if you think DvdB's future is at #6, at Ajax or whichever other club, you are absolutely bonkers. vdBeek is NOT a #6 at all. All his best qualities like linking up the play in the final third of the pitch, goalscoring, attacking movement are less useful at #6 and his greatest area's of improvement, like being dominant in posession, are emphasized at #6.

Donny is a very good player for Ajax and he really shone the second half of the season. I want to see how his form and development progress next season. I don't know if he will be Man Utd quality in the end, although he would definitely improve your current midfield. Apart from Pogba, that is not Man Utd quality either though.
 

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@Kaglish10 if you think DvdB's future is at #6, at Ajax or whichever other club, you are absolutely bonkers. vdBeek is NOT a #6 at all. All his best qualities like linking up the play in the final third of the pitch, goalscoring, attacking movement are less useful at #6 and his greatest area's of improvement, like being dominant in posession, are emphasized at #6.

Donny is a very good player for Ajax and he really shone the second half of the season. I want to see how his form and development progress next season. I don't know if he will be Man Utd quality in the end, although he would definitely improve your current midfield. Apart from Pogba, that is not Man Utd quality either though.
I agree with the bolded. I really like him, he gets in the box and causes issues. Think he'd be a really astute signing.
 

Kaglish10

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@Kaglish10 if you think DvdB's future is at #6, at Ajax or whichever other club, you are absolutely bonkers. vdBeek is NOT a #6 at all. All his best qualities like linking up the play in the final third of the pitch, goalscoring, attacking movement are less useful at #6 and his greatest area's of improvement, like being dominant in posession, are emphasized at #6.

Donny is a very good player for Ajax and he really shone the second half of the season. I want to see how his form and development progress next season. I don't know if he will be Man Utd quality in the end, although he would definitely improve your current midfield. Apart from Pogba, that is not Man Utd quality either though.
This is funny especially when you consider the fact that Van de Beek was a no 6 for the dutch u17, u19 national team and even ousted Frenkie de jong from the team. Heck, his role under Bosz was a no 6 role, same role that got Ajax fans wanting him to start ahead of Schone in every game.

Van de Beek played 3 games in the central midfield this season and they include Exelsior, Do arg, Heracles. He looked far better in all of the matches as opposed to him masquarading as a SS. As a matter of fact, his tactical nous as a SS was what got Ajax far in their CL and league title, for a discerning eye. He was able to create a presence upfront with his physique, movement and threat hence gave Ziyech, Tadic and Neres the allowance and space to roam through the middle.

One Ajax fan made mention of how Ziyech and Beek were getting into each other role through the middle at the start of the season because Beek being a central midfielder would always want to drop back from the no 10 position into the midfield, likewise Ziyech as an inverted right midfielder who loves to drop into the spaces in the midfield. The ajax fan had opined Beek should be drop back into the central midfield which the Ajax fan said was his best position and that he's better than Schone hence Beek should play ahead of him.

However for Ten Hag, who would provide the threat the upfront considering the likes of Ziyech, Tadic and Neres love to roam. Moreover Beek's noses for goal could also be exploited. I watched him play against Nice and all the chances he created for his team mates were wasted. Not to mention the fact that his team mates all looked clueless and bang average. To me, he's the glue that glued Ajax team together. They are nothing without him either as a no 8/6 or SS.
 

Nickosaur

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Ødegaard played 1 game as no 10, rest of the games on the RW. Still he got a spot as a CM in the 4-3-3. And de Beeks position shouldnt be an issue when it comes to the 9-player bench? If he was a top 20 performer in the league he would’ve been in. But he wasnt.

Not saying he is a bad player, but to splash £40-50m and expect him to be a starter for United isn’t smart at all.
Maybe judging a player on whether he gets included in a pointless xi isn't as smart as judging the player on his actual performances.
 

Shaw Mee Tah Mané

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Maybe judging a player on whether he gets included in a pointless xi isn't as smart as judging the player on his actual performances.
It’s exactly what I (and others) in this thread do, and I think him not getting in the team of the year is completely deserved. I think those that see him as a must buy for £50m judge him by a few great CL-matches.

Eredivisie is the league I’ve followed the most after PL, and it has a lot of talent, but not a lot of £50m+ sure starters for this club. It’s a league where Tadic and Blind are dominant players, players that didnt exactly rule PL.
 

Kaglish10

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It's pointless to use that as a criteria when Van de Beek wasn't even playing in his best position.

Besides, Tadic was rubbish in the europa league and still was nothing special in the CL apart from his goals but a player like Beek who had roughly 25 passes per game was able to make more impact than those that had 3 times his touches in each game. Against Juve and Spurs, he was Ajax's best player while playing as a SS.

As a CM for Ajax during their CL play off, he was also Ajax's best player. In Ajax's previous europa league matches, he also looked like an outstanding talent who almost ousted Schone from the team. Many Ajax fans voted for him to start ahead of Schone in the final against us and he showed why he should have started when he came on against us.

Sometime I find it incredible that some people who claimed to have followed Eredivisie didn't even know Beek previously played as a DM and CM before he was moved upfront. Apart from the fact that several Ajax fans on their forum said Beek is at his best in the midfield, the coach said same and the stats backed up the claim that he was deployed in the central midfield until this season. I have seen him as a CM & DM with my very own eyes as well hence all these are just baseless.
 

Hughie77

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I've only seen him in champions league, and was impressed he's a up and down midfielder, can finish as well. With Herrera gone, we could do with another cm, pogba is the issue here, do they want rid or keep, he's fecking the whole thing up at present.?

I think a fair enough offer he will come?
 

Fer

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Now that we can't sign N'Dombele, Barella, Tielemans, Rabiot, etc. Van de Beek could be a good replacement for Herrera.
 

Pierluigi Casiraghi

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Now that we can't sign N'Dombele, Barella, Tielemans, Rabiot, etc. Van de Beek could be a good replacement for Herrera.
Aside from terrific work rate I don't think they're similar players. Donny strikes me as someone who excels when it comes to awareness and anticipation close the opposition's box.
 

edbe

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It’s exactly what I (and others) in this thread do, and I think him not getting in the team of the year is completely deserved. I think those that see him as a must buy for £50m judge him by a few great CL-matches.

Eredivisie is the league I’ve followed the most after PL, and it has a lot of talent, but not a lot of £50m+ sure starters for this club. It’s a league where Tadic and Blind are dominant players, players that didnt exactly rule PL.
Ajax this past season was better than United, I'm stuggling to name more than 2 players in the current United line-up which I would want to see in that Ajax team. Rashford and DeGea possibly, but that's it.

Tadic was at a midtable club in the PL, diff. level of players surounding him, played differently than Ajax does and used Tadic in a different way.

So any comparison goes out of the window.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Ajax this past season was better than United, I'm stuggling to name more than 2 players in the current United line-up which I would want to see in that Ajax team. Rashford and DeGea possibly, but that's it.

Tadic was at a midtable club in the PL, diff. level of players surounding him, played differently than Ajax does and used Tadic in a different way.

So any comparison goes out of the window.
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves, Ajax barely managed to win their farmers league, 2 players (soon to be 1) aside you’re a nothing side.
Ajax were a team flying on confidence and lack of expectations on the European front, well done for that, but that is like Leicester won the league, 3 players aside they were a bunch of average players flying on high confidence and functioned really well as a team, it’s not sustainable at all.

Most of the United players will walk into the Ajax team, just like Blind did, and he was average here.
 

edbe

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Let’s not get ahead of ourselves, Ajax barely managed to win their farmers league, 2 players (soon to be 1) aside you’re a nothing side.
Ajax were a team flying on confidence and lack of expectations on the European front, well done for that, but that is like Leicester won the league, 3 players aside they were a bunch of average players flying on high confidence and functioned really well as a team, it’s not sustainable at all.

Most of the United players will walk into the Ajax team, just like Blind did, and he was average here.
Blind was avarage ? but still played most matches at United. Probably because United isn't exactly Barcelona either, 6th in the leaque. Your very much gloryfiying United based on it's past.

And Blind by the way is underrated, I don't think the PL has a defender with such a broad set of skills and can actually pass a ball.

A year ago 99% of the folks on this forum never heard of players like De Jong, Vd.Beek, De Ligt, Ziyech, etc. Plus 99% never see an Eredivisie nor Ajax game but still seem to have strong opinions about it.

There's a reason why Mourinho parked the bus against a very young Ajax side in the EL final more than 2 years ago. Set pieces did the rest for him then. Ajax only improved since.

Again I'm stuggling to name more than 2 players in the current United line-up which I would want to see in the current Ajax line-up.
 

Pierluigi Casiraghi

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Blind was avarage ? but still played most matches at United. Probably because United isn't exactly Barcelona either, 6th in the leaque. Your very much gloryfiying United based on it's past.

And Blind by the way is underrated, I don't think the PL has a defender with such a broad set of skills and can actually pass a ball.

A year ago 99% of the folks on this forum never heard of players like De Jong, Vd.Beek, De Ligt, Ziyech, etc. Plus 99% never see an Eredivisie nor Ajax game but still seem to have strong opinions about it.

There's a reason why Mourinho parked the bus against a very young Ajax side in the EL final more than 2 years ago. Set pieces did the rest for him then. Ajax only improved since.

Again I'm stuggling to name more than 2 players in the current United line-up which I would want to see in the current Ajax line-up.
Blind did well as a CB against crap teams who were happy to sit back and let him bring the ball forward. He wasn't very good there against better teams who put us under a lot of pressure and he was average at DM and LB. Lindelof is better than him for sure and I'd have Smalling over him too.
 

bond19821982

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Blind was avarage ? but still played most matches at United. Probably because United isn't exactly Barcelona either, 6th in the leaque. Your very much gloryfiying United based on it's past.

And Blind by the way is underrated, I don't think the PL has a defender with such a broad set of skills and can actually pass a ball.

A year ago 99% of the folks on this forum never heard of players like De Jong, Vd.Beek, De Ligt, Ziyech, etc. Plus 99% never see an Eredivisie nor Ajax game but still seem to have strong opinions about it.

There's a reason why Mourinho parked the bus against a very young Ajax side in the EL final more than 2 years ago. Set pieces did the rest for him then. Ajax only improved since.

Again I'm stuggling to name more than 2 players in the current United line-up which I would want to see in the current Ajax line-up.
Blind was average. There is a reason why he still plays for Ajax. Why no one else is linked or signed .
He suits you guys perfectly which is fair. But fact that he played majority of matches proves nothing. We were average as a team as well.

Jose always parks the bus. It has nothing to do with opposition being Ajax.

One more thing - I would only have De Jong from the current Ajax team if I had a chance (not even De Ligt ).
 

Sandikan

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Again I'm stuggling to name more than 2 players in the current United line-up which I would want to see in the current Ajax line-up.
How about the lineup you'll have when Europe's giants have taken all your stars?
See if you're quite as confident then.:wenger:
 

giorno

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There's a reason why Mourinho parked the bus against a very young Ajax side in the EL final more than 2 years ago. Set pieces did the rest for him then. Ajax only improved since.
Wait, is this a brag? You're bragging about the game United made you look like children against men because they let you have the ball? :eek:
 

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Blind was average. There is a reason why he still plays for Ajax. Why no one else is linked or signed .
He suits you guys perfectly which is fair. But fact that he played majority of matches proves nothing. We were average as a team as well.

Jose always parks the bus. It has nothing to do with opposition being Ajax.

One more thing - I would only have De Jong from the current Ajax team if I had a chance (not even De Ligt ).
What? In the United team? :lol:

Don’t be fecking daft
 

bond19821982

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Fair enough I just find that bizarre
De ligt and De Jong are the only ones worth considering. De ligt is only 19 and personally, I think he is now overrated to huge levels. He has huge potential but what we need now is someone who can come right in and take over that defence.

Ziyech is not good enough for us. We don't need Donny when we have Pogba. He is much better in the final third. Then there Neres and Blind which i don't want anyway.
 

Sir Scott McToMinay

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Blind was avarage ? but still played most matches at United. Probably because United isn't exactly Barcelona either, 6th in the leaque. Your very much gloryfiying United based on it's past.

And Blind by the way is underrated, I don't think the PL has a defender with such a broad set of skills and can actually pass a ball.

A year ago 99% of the folks on this forum never heard of players like De Jong, Vd.Beek, De Ligt, Ziyech, etc. Plus 99% never see an Eredivisie nor Ajax game but still seem to have strong opinions about it.

There's a reason why Mourinho parked the bus against a very young Ajax side in the EL final more than 2 years ago. Set pieces did the rest for him then. Ajax only improved since.

Again I'm stuggling to name more than 2 players in the current United line-up which I would want to see in the current Ajax line-up.
You’re overrating that Ajax team beyond any proportion, it’s a nothing side all in all, one great season in Europe in 2 decades and a half is nothing sustainable.
I rate 3 players from last season’s Ajax team highly, the rest are either bang average or shite.
United’s second team would probably comfortably win the Dutch league, it isn’t even a Championship level league, you׳re having a laugh.

Mourinho didn’t park the bus, he schooled you and Fellaini made your midfielders look like 13 year old kids, it was hilarious.
Haven’t seen a better “boys vs men” example for a long time, Ajax were schooled, don’t think our players even broke a sweat, we’ve had far more difficult matches against championship teams in the cups over the last 6 years.

Blind was the epitome of averageness here.
 
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Henrik Larsson

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There seems to be some pretty serious interest from Real Madrid for this guy. Saturday he confirmed in a post match interview that Real had contact with Ajax, but no there's done deal yet.

Ajax don't need the money and really want to keep and play him at least until after the next preliminary CL rounds before they want to think about selling. At the same time Real apparently hasn't gone all out for him because of their lingering interest in Pogba in the background, but it that falls through they might really sign him up.

Somehow Mino Raiola has given some insight about the current status of this transfer to the Dutch newspapers as well despite not being his agent...
 

Lash

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There seems to be some pretty serious interest from Real Madrid for this guy. Saturday he confirmed Real had contact with Ajax, but no done deal yet.

Ajax don't need the money and really want to keep and play him at least until after the next preliminary CL rounds before they want to think about selling. At the same time Real apparently hasn't gone all out for him because of their lingering interest in Pogba in the background, but it that falls through they might really sign him up.

Somehow Mino Raiola has given some insight about the current status of this transfer to the Dutch newspapers as well despite not being his agent...
I know the coefficients and rankings and all that jazz, but making Ajax play a preliminary round after last season just seems wrong to me.
 

Henrik Larsson

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I know the coefficients and rankings and all that jazz, but making Ajax play a preliminary round after last season just seems wrong to me.
TBF it's the Dutch clubs' own mistake. PSV got owned by FC Basel and FC Utrecht got themselves knocked out of the Europa League by some Bosnian club I've never heard of this week. This is not an incident, it's been going on like that for 10 years.

The Dutch league is ranked lower than much smaller countries like Belgium and Portugal because generally speaking most managers and clubs are simply only interested in playing what they call 'good football' and dominating posession with young players and their teams have no other weapons so the speak.

If it weren't for the great Ajax campaign last year, countries like Austria and Czech Rep. would also be ahead on the ranking, simply because clubs from those countries tend to focus on more mature squads with more physicality and allround quality, and tend to perform better than the Dutch clubs in European matches despite usually having even less budget.
 

Bwuk

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He’d be a great signing for midfield. Provides that third man run into the box none of the rest of their squad do.
 

Lash

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TBF it's the Dutch clubs' own mistake. PSV got owned by FC Basel and FC Utrecht got themselves knocked out of the Europa League by some Bosnian club I've never heard of this week. This is not an incident, it's been going on like that for 10 years.

The Dutch league is ranked lower than much smaller countries like Belgium and Portugal because generally speaking most managers and clubs are simply only interested in playing what they call 'good football' and dominating posession with young players and their teams have no other weapons so the speak.

If it weren't for the great Ajax campaign last year, countries like Austria and Czech Rep. would also be ahead on the ranking, simply because clubs from those countries tend to focus on more mature squads with more physicality and allround quality, and tend to perform better than the Dutch clubs in European matches despite usually having even less budget.
Yeah, which is bonkers as I went to Sparta Prague game last year and I genuinely think I could have filled in for one of the teams, it was that bad. It's a shame Dutch football has fell by the wayside a bit, bar Ajax.
 

JPRouve

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TBF it's the Dutch clubs' own mistake. PSV got owned by FC Basel and FC Utrecht got themselves knocked out of the Europa League by some Bosnian club I've never heard of this week. This is not an incident, it's been going on like that for 10 years.

The Dutch league is ranked lower than much smaller countries like Belgium and Portugal because generally speaking most managers and clubs are simply only interested in playing what they call 'good football' and dominating posession with young players and their teams have no other weapons so the speak.

If it weren't for the great Ajax campaign last year, countries like Austria and Czech Rep. would also be ahead on the ranking, simply because clubs from those countries tend to focus on more mature squads with more physicality and allround quality, and tend to perform better than the Dutch clubs in European matches despite usually having even less budget.
And it's also due to the fact that since the Eredivisie produces good young players, bigger leagues use it as a supermarket. It's the same issue in France, you can't really be consistently good in Europe if you are continuously rebuilding and filling the gaps with kids however talented they are because in Europe experience is key.